Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory

(12-27-2021, 12:03 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know whether your Trump cult or the people that you call RINOs will be leaving the GOP. You can trust that we Democrats aren't going to soil ourselves in purging the "RINOs". At the least they seem to concur with us that liberty is more precious than getting one's way in a certain political cycle. We may need them to protect civil liberties even at the expense of social progress because if we lose our freedom,. then social progress will be either moot or moribund. One way or the other, whether by driving the totalitarian-roaders into a fringe party that loses relevance every year (example: by 1968 one of the few members of the National States' Rights Party that had formed to support segregation in 1948 was none other than James Earl Ray, assassin of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.), becoming the core of a conservative but anti-fascist GOP, becoming a Third Party that becomes the second main party while it rebuilds its political 'farm system' or generally goes Democratic for now... we will have a consensus among most Americans that violence, bigotry,  demagoguery, and Bolshevik-style ruthlessness have no rule in American life... as was so before Trump and must be so again.

If your idea of a Republican 'house-cleaning' is something like a Night of the Long Knives or a Stalinist purge, then you have some weird idea of what it means to be an American. I have far more in common with an Iranian liberal than I have with an American fascist or Stalinist. I believe in law and order as a necessity for freedom, civil liberties, and domestic tranquility. Lynch mobs are not law and order.  

By the way -- clean up your filthy language! Write as if your children could be reading your material; somebody else's children could be reading it.

Why would I speak to a Left Wing adult  as if they were children? I wasn't speaking to kids. I was speaking to you and other Left Wing adult. So PB, are you adult enough to know the difference between the use of the word Fuck? Do you know when you could get hurt or it's time to duck or shut up or run? Based on what I've seen, you guys don't know shit about the real world. PB, I don't care about you or the other blue stooges left at this point. Dude, you would have a hard time fitting in with the American liberals these days. I mean, you and I have little to nothing in common at this point. In case you haven't been paying attention, the Democrat's have been busy trashing/trampling/threatening the civil liberties of all kinds of Americans living all over the country since Biden and his ilk took office.

So, WTF is wrong with you dude? Why are you to dumb or unable to see it these days? I suggest that you write as if there's an American adult who is reading your Leftist bullshit that can/will kick your ass, vote to remove you and ship you elsewhere or even kill you if necessary at some point. Dude, you guys are so disconnected from reality that you can't even tell that everything you say about us is mainly true about yourselves and the Democrats these days. It's your life/well being that's at stake now dude.

(12-26-2021, 07:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-25-2021, 12:13 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2021, 09:51 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2021, 04:56 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2021, 01:57 PM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]True, but unlikely.  Today's GOP isn't even interested in being a winning version of its older self.  As a party, it's more than happy to rule by fiat, and it's working hard to make that happen.

Yes. Sorry to say, but these days, what deserves to happen, rarely does.

Boldface item is classic example of history repeating itself. That very well describes those loyal to Hitler as well. Didn’t get them off at Nuremberg though.

At some point, you guys are going to have to pull your heads out of your asses and start thinking more like Americans instead of self serving Leftists and Democrats. If not, America is going to cut ties and withdraw it's support and leave you guys behind to rot/die.

Dude, we Leftists and Democrats are Americans. Remember well that many Americans do not look like you, do not hold the same religious beliefs, and have cultural traditions that you would find alien. Obviously I would not fit in well in any Koreatown, but it has traditions just as valid as yours or mine. 

What matters is the respect that people have for work, sobriety, enterprise, community, innovation, integrity, imagination, and formal learning. None of those is itself adequate for a good life. This has been so since America mitigated its racism. 

I look at the credits for Pixar animated films and I see lots of Korean names. 

Your side, should it cut its ties to my side, will miss much. My side has the creativity and talent. My side prefers education to superstition.

Your side has little to no creativity or talent which is why your side is so heavily reliant upon our side. The Leftists and Democrats aren't anymore American than the French, Russians or Chinese at this point. So lets see, your side is closing down schools as we speak mainly due to liberal related superstitions.

(12-31-2021, 01:28 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-27-2021, 12:03 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know whether your Trump cult or the people that you call RINOs will be leaving the GOP. You can trust that we Democrats aren't going to soil ourselves in purging the "RINOs". At the least they seem to concur with us that liberty is more precious than getting one's way in a certain political cycle. We may need them to protect civil liberties even at the expense of social progress because if we lose our freedom,. then social progress will be either moot or moribund. One way or the other, whether by driving the totalitarian-roaders into a fringe party that loses relevance every year (example: by 1968 one of the few members of the National States' Rights Party that had formed to support segregation in 1948 was none other than James Earl Ray, assassin of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.), becoming the core of a conservative but anti-fascist GOP, becoming a Third Party that becomes the second main party while it rebuilds its political 'farm system' or generally goes Democratic for now... we will have a consensus among most Americans that violence, bigotry,  demagoguery, and Bolshevik-style ruthlessness have no rule in American life... as was so before Trump and must be so again.

If your idea of a Republican 'house-cleaning' is something like a Night of the Long Knives or a Stalinist purge, then you have some weird idea of what it means to be an American. I have far more in common with an Iranian liberal than I have with an American fascist or Stalinist. I believe in law and order as a necessity for freedom, civil liberties, and domestic tranquility. Lynch mobs are not law and order.  

By the way -- clean up your filthy language! Write as if your children could be reading your material; somebody else's children could be reading it.

Why would I speak to a Left Wing adult  as if they were children? PB, I don't care about you or the other blue stooges left at this point. Dude, you would have a hard time fitting in with the American liberals these days. I mean, you and I have little to nothing in common at this point. In case you haven't been paying attention, the Democrat's have been busy trashing/trampling the civil liberties of all kinds of Americans all over the country since Biden and his ilk took office.

Tell me, then, why I should admire Donald Trump. Trump's puerile mockery of the handicapped and war veterans who have had some bad consequences of serving their country serves no viable purpose except to show how low his "emotional quotient" is. I can fully understand people who think that America would be more prosperous if it accepted more poverty due to low wages and greater insecurity of unemployment as well as a gutting of welfare and Social Security because people would be more willing to work super-cheap. I simply disagree with them. Such people usually mean well even if their policies would do great harm to many. Trump pushed bad medical advice as a substitute for wearing masks, social distancing, and vigilant hand-washing. 

As for the vile language: you can write or speak without using it. The most recent time in which I used the F-bomb was when I got a phone-call purporting to tell me that I had a virus on my computer that I had to remove. Such is a fraud, and I saw fit to make life miserable for the person who has to listen to responses. People who do such dishonest stuff need to find honest work, no matter how humble the pay. Dirty money usually becomes cursed. That was three years ago.   

One of the best tests for whether your language is appropriate is to ask yourself whether it might be hurtful to children. 

By the way -- it is Donald Trump who did far more to gut civil liberties in America than any President in a long time. 

Quote:So, WTF is wrong with you dude? Why are you to dumb/unable to see it? I suggest that you write as if there's an American adult who is reading your Leftist bullshit that can/will kick your ass, vote to remove you and ship you elsewhere or even kill you if necessary at this point. Dude, you guys are so disconnected from reality that you can't tell that everything you say about us is mainly true about yourselves and the Democrats at this point. It's your life dude.

America is so polarized that about 45% of the people have so little agreement on substantive issues of politics with the opposite 45%. That is a dangerous condition for any country. How many people still believe that the 2020 election was fraudulent? Many still believe that, assuming that the votes counted late were fraudulent votes. No, they came from places like Atlanta, Detroit, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Phoenix, and Pittsburgh where the count is manual and Democrats usually run up huge numbers of votes. Should one have expected otherwise? 

The only thing screwy about the 2020 vote was the danger of COVID-19. Courts and State legislatures decided that if people were to vote, then they could rely upon absentee ballots delivered through the mails or drop boxes. Trump tried to mess things up after the vote. He had no excuse. 

Accept it. We Democrats accepted the results of the 2000 and 2016 elections even if there were screwy things going on that we could not quite prove. Claims of electoral fraud require definitive proof, and not some statistical hogwash. 

There are standards of truth. Even if I have suspicions to the contrary, a legal verdict definitively establishes that O J Simpson was not guilty of murdering Nicole Simpson. The results of the elections of 2000 and 2016 are established in law even though some things stink. Medicine is more an art than a science... but I am 100% convinced that getting the two initial shots for COVID-19, and then only after having a very lonely and miserable time dodging a disease that I have good reason to believe would have killed me. I may yet have a happy old age. Considering the many disappointments that I have endured, I deserve that. 

I'm capable of some frank talk. Some topics require that. I can also sugarcoat some language involving sexuality. 

Now I must ask you: do you reject brutal treatment of those who disagree with you because you see no right of others to disagree with you? If you do not reject such a violent or brutal purge of such people then you reject values enshrined in 200+ years of American politics. I do not want America to become like Hitler's Third Reich, Stalin's Soviet Union, or Iraq under Saddam Hussein... or many other monstrosities. I have no desire for any re-education camps of the types that appeared in some countries after a stark change of one sort of a regime to another. Political violence is an anathema in America, and that opinion crosses lines of race, class, religion, and ethnicity. America has plenty of different traditions connected to ethnicity and faith, and I am in no position to see one tradition as more valid than another. But whatever our race, class, religion, or ethnicity we can all agree on the necessity for constitutional restraints upon the State so that it does not rob, beat, or kill people for being the "wrong" sort of person. 

Let me remind you why I became a fervent supporter of LGBT rights. I don't have to be gay. (Well, I could never be a lesbian, but that is a matter of anatomy. I concur with lesbians on a commonplace attitude among them: Men, yuck!). I don't have to understand homosexuality or desire gay sex. (Again: Men, yuck!). I understand gay-bashing all too well; it is a denial of the fundamental responsibility of us all to avoid doing unmerited violence. OK, break into my house, and if I have Mr. "R. Ottweiler" or "Ms. D. Oberman" staying home while I am at the grocery store on a hot day, I'm not going to be surprised to see a trail of blood that the dog exacted with Razors of Mouth and Paw.  But that's the Dog Way, and we all know the rules with a large, territorial predator, do we not? I have been threatened with grievous bodily harm for homosexuality. Yes, I am a big coward and run away from fights. Of course I have found that that is what the military tells soldiers, so maybe it isn't all that cowardly. 

The problem isn't that someone thought that I was gay.  People misidentify others seemingly all the time. I have experienced gay passes, only to respond as politely as possible, "Sorry, I am not interested".   The problem was that the creep thought it acceptable to rob, beat, and kill gays.  Whatever it takes to promote the necessary dignity of people who have done nothing wrong, I support. We can choose non-violence or we can choose brutality. Non-violence is essential to the law and order that makes human rights and civil liberties something other than a pipe dream.

(12-31-2021, 12:07 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-25-2021, 04:40 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-25-2021, 12:13 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2021, 09:51 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2021, 04:56 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. Sorry to say, but these days, what deserves to happen, rarely does.

Boldface item is classic example of history repeating itself. That very well describes those loyal to Hitler as well. Didn’t get them off at Nuremberg though.

At some point, you guys are going to have to pull your heads out of your asses and start thinking more like Americans instead of self serving Leftists and Democrats. If not, America is going to cut ties and withdraw it's support and leave you guys behind to rot/die.

PLEASE, DO cut ties and cut off from us. And, Merry Christmas to you, my favorite foil, Classic!

We're already in the process of doing it. The majority of you either won't know or figure it out until its to late. If you had a choice between being stuck with Hitler or Stalin, which would you choose?

You guys have already chosen your Hitler. I don't know why you are stuck on him.

(12-31-2021, 01:54 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-26-2021, 07:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-25-2021, 12:13 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2021, 09:51 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2021, 04:56 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. Sorry to say, but these days, what deserves to happen, rarely does.

Boldface item is classic example of history repeating itself. That very well describes those loyal to Hitler as well. Didn’t get them off at Nuremberg though.

At some point, you guys are going to have to pull your heads out of your asses and start thinking more like Americans instead of self serving Leftists and Democrats. If not, America is going to cut ties and withdraw it's support and leave you guys behind to rot/die.

Dude, we Leftists and Democrats are Americans. Remember well that many Americans do not look like you, do not hold the same religious beliefs, and have cultural traditions that you would find alien. Obviously I would not fit in well in any Koreatown, but it has traditions just as valid as yours or mine. 

What matters is the respect that people have for work, sobriety, enterprise, community, innovation, integrity, imagination, and formal learning. None of those is itself adequate for a good life. This has been so since America mitigated its racism. 

I look at the credits for Pixar animated films and I see lots of Korean names. 

Your side, should it cut its ties to my side, will miss much. My side has the creativity and talent. My side prefers education to superstition.

Your side has little to no creativity or talent which is why your side is so heavily reliant upon our side. The Leftists and Democrats aren't anymore American than the French, Russians or Chinese at this point. So lets see, your side is closing down schools as we speak mainly due to liberal related superstitions.

Our side is keeping schools as open as we can, while your side is already burning or banning books in Virginia due mainly to racist superstitions quite similar to those of Hitler.

(12-31-2021, 01:54 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]Your side has little to no creativity or talent which is why your side is so heavily reliant upon our side. The Leftists and Democrats aren't anymore American than the French, Russians or Chinese at this point. So lets see, your side is closing down schools as we speak mainly due to liberal related superstitions.

The left is far from perfect, but the right is "the side" banning books, defunding schools, sucking up to tyrrants like Putin and doing everything you claimed to hold in disgust just a few yeaqrs ago.  This is beyond the analogy of the pot calling the kettle black, it's akin to the pot calling the dishes black.

It says a lot that the senior military brass is planning to run anti-insurrection drills to test the loyalty of the US military and how robust we are as a democracy, and it isn't the left that concerns them.

(12-31-2021, 06:03 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-31-2021, 01:54 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-26-2021, 07:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-25-2021, 12:13 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2021, 09:51 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: [ -> ]Boldface item is classic example of history repeating itself. That very well describes those loyal to Hitler as well. Didn’t get them off at Nuremberg though.

At some point, you guys are going to have to pull your heads out of your asses and start thinking more like Americans instead of self serving Leftists and Democrats. If not, America is going to cut ties and withdraw it's support and leave you guys behind to rot/die.

Dude, we Leftists and Democrats are Americans. Remember well that many Americans do not look like you, do not hold the same religious beliefs, and have cultural traditions that you would find alien. Obviously I would not fit in well in any Koreatown, but it has traditions just as valid as yours or mine. 

What matters is the respect that people have for work, sobriety, enterprise, community, innovation, integrity, imagination, and formal learning. None of those is itself adequate for a good life. This has been so since America mitigated its racism. 

I look at the credits for Pixar animated films and I see lots of Korean names. 

Your side, should it cut its ties to my side, will miss much. My side has the creativity and talent. My side prefers education to superstition.

Your side has little to no creativity or talent which is why your side is so heavily reliant upon our side. The Leftists and Democrats aren't anymore American than the French, Russians or Chinese at this point. So lets see, your side is closing down schools as we speak mainly due to liberal related superstitions.

Our side is keeping schools as open as we can, while your side is already burning or banning books in Virginia due mainly to racist superstitions quite similar to those of Hitler.

We can keep schools open if students and staff alike keep wearing masks and easy checks (like temperature checks) are done reliably. We have easy and reliable tests for COVID-19. We can loosen the mandates for compulsory attendance. Substitute teachers can be used as "visiting teachers" for students sent home for COVID-19.

Because so many Americans are inoculated we are in far better shape than we were a year and a half ago. 

...If you are talking about banning books, then remember that all school textbooks themselves become obsolete because basic new facts are in, realities at the fore a decade or so earlier have become irrelevant, and at times historical "realities" as local dogma might become offensive. One of the states in question is Virginia, whose Confederate heritage was once important. It is not so much so now. The Confederate heritage is an insult to African-Americans (as if that mattered when Virginia was genuinely a Southern state and Virginia had a large population of descendants of slaves) and irrelevant to those Virginians who moved in from Northern states or immigrated from other countries. The citizenship tests, so far as I know, do not play up the Confederacy for its alleged virtues. 

You need recognize that the black-white divide is real, and so is racism at the least as a hindrance. Racism has abated somewhat -- enough that Virginia now has the highest rate of interracial marriage in the USA. (It has a large African-American middle class, and that "black bourgeoisie" proudly assimilates white people into its gene pool. The one-drop rule remains in effect for the racial definition). Racial differences used to lead to blacks being treated badly in every respect in life; those have abated, and that is a legitimate story. It's still inconvenient to be black, but probably not so much that being black causes as much personal detriment as does being an alcoholic or addict or even having any condition on the DMS-IV, including my condition (Asperger's syndrome) which is the least troublesome to self or others. In the unlikely case that a melanin infusion would cure me of Asperger's syndrome I would take it. 

But back to books. I remember my high-school French textbook from the early 1970's (yes, I am dating myself), and it depicted people listening to vinyl records marked "Piaf". (I am surprised that Edith Piaf, 1915-1963, still passes my spell-check!). I can assure you that a contemporary French textbook for high-school would not make references to someone who died nearly sixty years ago unless a defining political figure like Napoleon or Charles de Gaulle or a classical composer such as Bizet or Debussy. Language does not change that much, but the cultural context does. History does change. World War II remains the definitive apocalypse in history, and by now what Howe and Strass said back in 1989 in Generations (in essence, by 2030  history textbooks for K-12 students would rush through events between World War II and the Crisis of 2020 just as in the 1980's they rushed over the time between the American Civil War and the Great Depression and World War II) is beginning to look obvious. By 2030 Americans will largely underplay the Cold War and realign geography to recognize Prague as part of western Europe and Estonia as part of Scandinavia because Estonia has more connections to Finland than any other country.

There is little more useless than a thirty-year-old school textbook. Most get pulped even before then, and that is where much of your "recycled paper" comes from. But that ignores books that have lost their relevance (trashy best-sellers that nobody reads at libraries), outmoded law books (statutes outlawing homosexuality or mandating segregation are now void), and books that libraries got a dozen or so of at one time that they now need only one copy of (the Dallas public library system needed multiple copies of "Landry", the biography of the long-time head coach of the Dallas Cowboys, and one copy is typically enough now). In case you are comparing the destruction of books no longer 'politically correct' to the infamous book-burnings of Nazi Germany, then the Allied occupiers destroyed even more books from the Nazi era, such as Mein Kampf, books lauding Nazi bigwigs or full of Nazi propaganda such as this venom:


   

"Trust no Fox on the green Meadow and no Jew's Oath"

directed at impressionable children. It was the official depiction of Jews in the Third Reich, but somehow unacceptable afterward. Huge numbers of this book were destroyed.  

... At this point, classic X'er, I can see that you will need to adjust to the changing view of Donald Trump in history. I can imagine a new birth of conservative ideology in new personalities and new writings, but all in all  I can see them vilifying Donald Trump much as liberals now vilify former film-maker (and now jailbird) Harvey Weinstein. Donald Trump will be shown as an example by the new conservatives circa 2030 who make clear that they do not do things the Trump way, and that conservatism has virtues that Trump ignored in favor of lionizing his putrid self. Civics texts will soon be revised to show clearly how wrong the Capitol Putsch was.  

Remember well: people who believe more like me are more likely to assert what constitutes civic virtues. Selling out to foreign powers for gain and power will not be part of those virtues. Gambling on other people's money will not be one of them. Cheating creditors and subcontractors or workers will not be one of them. Adultery, rape, and pedophilia will not be among them. Fraudulent oaths will not be among them. Abuse of people in a bad state for no fault of their own will not be among them. Drunkenness and drug use will not be among them. Religious, regional, sexual, ethnic, and racial bigotry will not be among them. 

The basis of all conservatism remains tradition. Here's the catch on tradition in America: we have multiple traditions in America and they don't readily amalgamate. They often have much in common, enough that people with very different traditions (let us say Mexican-Americans and Korean-Americans) need not go after each others' throats. The different traditions can coexist peacefully because those traditions derive heavily from the reality of human nature, and that is what matters.

(12-31-2021, 01:54 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-26-2021, 07:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-25-2021, 12:13 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2021, 09:51 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2021, 04:56 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. Sorry to say, but these days, what deserves to happen, rarely does.

Boldface item is classic example of history repeating itself. That very well describes those loyal to Hitler as well. Didn’t get them off at Nuremberg though.

At some point, you guys are going to have to pull your heads out of your asses and start thinking more like Americans instead of self serving Leftists and Democrats. If not, America is going to cut ties and withdraw it's support and leave you guys behind to rot/die.

Dude, we Leftists and Democrats are Americans. Remember well that many Americans do not look like you, do not hold the same religious beliefs, and have cultural traditions that you would find alien. Obviously I would not fit in well in any Koreatown, but it has traditions just as valid as yours or mine. 

What matters is the respect that people have for work, sobriety, enterprise, community, innovation, integrity, imagination, and formal learning. None of those is itself adequate for a good life. This has been so since America mitigated its racism. 

I look at the credits for Pixar animated films and I see lots of Korean names. 

Your side, should it cut its ties to my side, will miss much. My side has the creativity and talent. My side prefers education to superstition.

Your side has little to no creativity or talent which is why your side is so heavily reliant upon our side. The Leftists and Democrats aren't anymore American than the French, Russians or Chinese at this point. So lets see, your side is closing down schools as we speak mainly due to liberal related superstitions.

Dude, your side is generally so witless and unimaginative that it must largely do the raw and servile labor under close direction. My side has the movie, publishing, and music industries -- not to say that many in them aren't doing a good job with what they have. I confess that my musical tastes (classical) are un-American; I have more musical works by German, Austrian, Russian, French, Italian, Spanish, Czech, Hungarian, Polish, and British composers than by American composers in my collection. Then again, maybe you should be getting a good listen to some classical music. 

But even in popular music, "my side" has jazz, soul, blues, and folk. My side can recognize the validity of the folk music of other nations. I am much more cosmopolitan than you. My side knows better how to use creativity, and much of the wealth being created in America is intellectual property. I do not believe that something has virtue because it is American. Does the KKK have virtue for being American? Do you want to tangle with an American tornado? I have more in common with a Russian liberal than I have with an American fascist.  

At some point culture matters more than do  the tools of mindless hedonism. If I had to choose between a Honda Accord and a well-stocked collection of books and music costing as much as a pricey sports car and the sports car I would take the former. After all, at my age I wouldn't know what to do with a sports car except to drive it so slow that I would miss out on the alleged thrill. Besides, I lost my fascination with vehicular speed before I ever got a chance to drive a car. I'm one of those people who started acting middle-aged when I was a teenager. That says something.

(12-31-2021, 01:54 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-26-2021, 07:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-25-2021, 12:13 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2021, 09:51 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2021, 04:56 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. Sorry to say, but these days, what deserves to happen, rarely does.

Boldface item is classic example of history repeating itself. That very well describes those loyal to Hitler as well. Didn’t get them off at Nuremberg though.

At some point, you guys are going to have to pull your heads out of your asses and start thinking more like Americans instead of self serving Leftists and Democrats. If not, America is going to cut ties and withdraw it's support and leave you guys behind to rot/die.

Dude, we Leftists and Democrats are Americans. Remember well that many Americans do not look like you, do not hold the same religious beliefs, and have cultural traditions that you would find alien. Obviously I would not fit in well in any Koreatown, but it has traditions just as valid as yours or mine. 

What matters is the respect that people have for work, sobriety, enterprise, community, innovation, integrity, imagination, and formal learning. None of those is itself adequate for a good life. This has been so since America mitigated its racism. 

I look at the credits for Pixar animated films and I see lots of Korean names. 

Your side, should it cut its ties to my side, will miss much. My side has the creativity and talent. My side prefers education to superstition.

Your side has little to no creativity or talent which is why your side is so heavily reliant upon our side. The Leftists and Democrats aren't anymore American than the French, Russians or Chinese at this point. So lets see, your side is closing down schools as we speak mainly due to liberal related superstitions.

Your side doesn't even understand that the term "American" refers to all of Latin America and Canada as well as both sides of the USA. You want to keep or kick most Americans out of your "America".

(12-31-2021, 07:54 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-31-2021, 01:54 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-26-2021, 07:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-25-2021, 12:13 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2021, 09:51 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: [ -> ]Boldface item is classic example of history repeating itself. That very well describes those loyal to Hitler as well. Didn’t get them off at Nuremberg though.

At some point, you guys are going to have to pull your heads out of your asses and start thinking more like Americans instead of self serving Leftists and Democrats. If not, America is going to cut ties and withdraw it's support and leave you guys behind to rot/die.

Dude, we Leftists and Democrats are Americans. Remember well that many Americans do not look like you, do not hold the same religious beliefs, and have cultural traditions that you would find alien. Obviously I would not fit in well in any Koreatown, but it has traditions just as valid as yours or mine. 

What matters is the respect that people have for work, sobriety, enterprise, community, innovation, integrity, imagination, and formal learning. None of those is itself adequate for a good life. This has been so since America mitigated its racism. 

I look at the credits for Pixar animated films and I see lots of Korean names. 

Your side, should it cut its ties to my side, will miss much. My side has the creativity and talent. My side prefers education to superstition.

Your side has little to no creativity or talent which is why your side is so heavily reliant upon our side. The Leftists and Democrats aren't anymore American than the French, Russians or Chinese at this point. So lets see, your side is closing down schools as we speak mainly due to liberal related superstitions.

Dude, your side is generally so witless and unimaginative that it must largely do the raw and servile labor under close direction. My side has the movie, publishing, and music industries -- not to say that many in them aren't doing a good job with what they have. I confess that my musical tastes (classical) are un-American; I have more musical works by German, Austrian, Russian, French, Italian, Spanish, Czech, Hungarian, Polish, and British composers than by American composers in my collection. Then again, maybe you should be getting a good listen to some classical music. 

But even in popular music, "my side" has jazz, soul, blues, and folk. My side can recognize the validity of the folk music of other nations. I am much more cosmopolitan than you. My side knows better how to use creativity, and much of the wealth being created in America is intellectual property. I do not believe that something has virtue because it is American. Does the KKK have virtue for being American? Do you want to tangle with an American tornado? I have more in common with a Russian liberal than I have with an American fascist.  

At some point culture matters more than do  the tools of mindless hedonism. If I had to choose between a Honda Accord and a well-stocked collection of books and music costing as much as a pricey sports car and the sports car I would take the former. After all, at my age I wouldn't know what to do with a sports car except to drive it so slow that I would miss out on the alleged thrill. Besides, I lost my fascination with vehicular speed before I ever got a chance to drive a car. I'm one of those people who started acting middle-aged when I was a teenager. That says something.

My mother listened to your music. She was American to the core. Musical taste or preference has nothing to do with whether one is American or not. Whether you are aware or not, there is a natural process that is taking place right now. Americans are leaving Democratic controlled areas by the thousands which is good for America in my opinion. I have no love for the Progressives and they have no love for me or Americans in general. You should know that by now. You're on their side, you're working for them and you should know what that means too. I've spent the last two decades reminding Progressives about the American country and showing them what Americans have the freedom to do and the power to do as well. 4 vs 1 only matters here that's all. Right now in real life, its about 6 vs 4 which means you're done. If it takes a fight to prove its done then so be it. To be honest, I don't know a Democrat who is a Democrat these days. YOU ARE GOING to learn that elections have consequences. Every fucking one of you is going to learn it by the time. Welcome to the Real World boy. I wish you luck and Godspeed.

(01-02-2022, 02:05 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-31-2021, 07:54 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-31-2021, 01:54 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-26-2021, 07:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-25-2021, 12:13 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]At some point, you guys are going to have to pull your heads out of your asses and start thinking more like Americans instead of self serving Leftists and Democrats. If not, America is going to cut ties and withdraw it's support and leave you guys behind to rot/die.

Dude, we Leftists and Democrats are Americans. Remember well that many Americans do not look like you, do not hold the same religious beliefs, and have cultural traditions that you would find alien. Obviously I would not fit in well in any Koreatown, but it has traditions just as valid as yours or mine. 

What matters is the respect that people have for work, sobriety, enterprise, community, innovation, integrity, imagination, and formal learning. None of those is itself adequate for a good life. This has been so since America mitigated its racism. 

I look at the credits for Pixar animated films and I see lots of Korean names. 

Your side, should it cut its ties to my side, will miss much. My side has the creativity and talent. My side prefers education to superstition.

Your side has little to no creativity or talent which is why your side is so heavily reliant upon our side. The Leftists and Democrats aren't anymore American than the French, Russians or Chinese at this point. So lets see, your side is closing down schools as we speak mainly due to liberal related superstitions.

Dude, your side is generally so witless and unimaginative that it must largely do the raw and servile labor under close direction. My side has the movie, publishing, and music industries -- not to say that many in them aren't doing a good job with what they have. I confess that my musical tastes (classical) are un-American; I have more musical works by German, Austrian, Russian, French, Italian, Spanish, Czech, Hungarian, Polish, and British composers than by American composers in my collection. Then again, maybe you should be getting a good listen to some classical music. 

But even in popular music, "my side" has jazz, soul, blues, and folk. My side can recognize the validity of the folk music of other nations. I am much more cosmopolitan than you. My side knows better how to use creativity, and much of the wealth being created in America is intellectual property. I do not believe that something has virtue because it is American. Does the KKK have virtue for being American? Do you want to tangle with an American tornado? I have more in common with a Russian liberal than I have with an American fascist.  

At some point culture matters more than do  the tools of mindless hedonism. If I had to choose between a Honda Accord and a well-stocked collection of books and music costing as much as a pricey sports car and the sports car I would take the former. After all, at my age I wouldn't know what to do with a sports car except to drive it so slow that I would miss out on the alleged thrill. Besides, I lost my fascination with vehicular speed before I ever got a chance to drive a car. I'm one of those people who started acting middle-aged when I was a teenager. That says something.

My mother listened to your music. She was American to the core. Musical taste or preference has nothing to do with whether one is American or not. Whether you are aware or not, there is a natural process that is taking place right now. Americans are leaving Democratic controlled areas by the thousands which is good for America in my opinion. I have no love for the Progressives and they have no love for me or Americans in general.

Americans are leaving high-cost D areas for "swing" areas that are not so costly: California to Colorado, Arizona, and Texas; New England, New Jersey, and New York for North Carolina and Virginia, and taking their political values with them. They are also leaving places that have been ravaged in the economic demise of the Rust Belt, like Missouri and Ohio. Those states become more R because the rural areas aren't losing relatively to the cities that people flee for good reasons. 

There is no long-term R trend. That was heavily associated with the Moral Majority, Gingrich's Contract for America, and the Tea Party which are much the same people. Those people, rather young in the 1970's, are now old. You should well know what happens to old people and anything connected to their culture that has no youth appeal. Have you seen any records by Perry Como, Guy Lombardo, or Andy Williams lately? I have -- in Goodwill! They do not sell. Contrast the Beatles, the Beach Boys, or even Big Band-era music: that is more "evergreen" in appeal. 

Maybe you believe that the Millennial Generation will come to its senses and recognize that the sole measure of economic virtue is that the economic elites get whatever they want so that they can invest it in job-creating plant and equipment in America.  Well... they don't. They keep looking for new places for sweatshop production. They invest heavily in pricey real estate for their own indulgence, and they invest heavily in right-wing media and politics so that they can fool gullible people like you to vote for people who hold your desires and interests in contempt. They are delighted to praise your patriotism by standing for American economic elites against liberals and 'uppity' minorities.

Classic X'er, you are a schmuck in your politics. You vote for people who will damn you to great hardships so that they can enjoy more power, indulgence, and gain. You are in the HVAC business in a place on the brink of needing more air conditioning. Air conditioning makes life tolerable in places with hot, humid summers like Des Moines  and Chicago.  It's more marginal in the Twin Cities. The more prosperous people are the more likely they are to need an air conditioner and service for it. Global warming is a reality where I live: winters are not as cold as I remember them as a child (when I trudged along through heavy snowbanks in -20F temperatures, uphill both ways and with polar bears breathing down our necks). Summers are hotter and stickier than I remember, and they are starting in May and lasting into October instead of starting in June and lasting only into September. Fall foliage used to be past peak where I live in late October, and I have gotten some great photos of fall foliage in early November.

Quote: You should know that by now. You're on their side, you're working for them and you should know what that means too. I've spent the last two decades reminding Progressives about the American country and showing them what Americans have the freedom to do and the power to do as well. 4 vs 1 only matters here that's all. Right now in real life, its about 6 vs 4 which means you're done. If it takes a fight to prove its done then so be it. To be honest, I don't know a Democrat who is a Democrat these days. YOU ARE GOING to learn that elections have consequences. Every (profanity excised) one of you is going to learn it by the time. Welcome to the Real World boy. I wish you luck and Godspeed.

Your "real America" is as much a part of America as many other communities of people who do not look like you, pray like you, have culinary tastes like yours, and have surnames unlike yours. If you were to take a trip to southern Louisiana you would still be in America, but how different an America it would be! Have you ever listened to New Orleans jazz and tasted Cajun cuisine? Then you are missing something. (New Orleans is a place to visit -- once. As for Shreveport, I used to live in Dallas and Shreveport is there considered a mistake as a destination.  Have you ever been to Utah? The Mormons do many things well. I could make the case that if you like low taxes and quality services, Utah is a bargain for government. The Mormons do not smoke or drink, so Utah residents pay less in public support of mitigating the medical effects of smoking and drinking. Utah has some wonderful national parks, and I want to see those some day... of course, sober and with "Mormon lungs". (I do not smoke). You live in Minnesota, which has some Reservations. Ever been there? The Canadian term for such people is First Peoples... they were here before our ancestors got here.

If you think that fights will prove anything... I have run away from plenty of fights. Coward? Nope. As I have found out, the Armed Services tell soldiers of all ranks to run from fights because those prove nothing. 

I can't tell you what part of America is the "real America". There are just too many candidates.

Yes, I know.. elections have consequences. But your side chose to nullify a fair, free, and competitive Presidential election because you disliked the results. That has happened many times and many places, and when that succeeds the People typically end up with a dictatorship. If you don't trust elections when they don't go your way, then may I suggest that you go to Cuba, where the electoral results are predictable. Very predictable.

Oh, by the way... do not call me a "boy". I'm 66 years old.

(01-02-2022, 02:05 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-31-2021, 07:54 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-31-2021, 01:54 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-26-2021, 07:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-25-2021, 12:13 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]At some point, you guys are going to have to pull your heads out of your asses and start thinking more like Americans instead of self serving Leftists and Democrats. If not, America is going to cut ties and withdraw it's support and leave you guys behind to rot/die.

Dude, we Leftists and Democrats are Americans. Remember well that many Americans do not look like you, do not hold the same religious beliefs, and have cultural traditions that you would find alien. Obviously I would not fit in well in any Koreatown, but it has traditions just as valid as yours or mine. 

What matters is the respect that people have for work, sobriety, enterprise, community, innovation, integrity, imagination, and formal learning. None of those is itself adequate for a good life. This has been so since America mitigated its racism. 

I look at the credits for Pixar animated films and I see lots of Korean names. 

Your side, should it cut its ties to my side, will miss much. My side has the creativity and talent. My side prefers education to superstition.

Your side has little to no creativity or talent which is why your side is so heavily reliant upon our side. The Leftists and Democrats aren't anymore American than the French, Russians or Chinese at this point. So lets see, your side is closing down schools as we speak mainly due to liberal related superstitions.

Dude, your side is generally so witless and unimaginative that it must largely do the raw and servile labor under close direction. My side has the movie, publishing, and music industries -- not to say that many in them aren't doing a good job with what they have. I confess that my musical tastes (classical) are un-American; I have more musical works by German, Austrian, Russian, French, Italian, Spanish, Czech, Hungarian, Polish, and British composers than by American composers in my collection. Then again, maybe you should be getting a good listen to some classical music. 

But even in popular music, "my side" has jazz, soul, blues, and folk. My side can recognize the validity of the folk music of other nations. I am much more cosmopolitan than you. My side knows better how to use creativity, and much of the wealth being created in America is intellectual property. I do not believe that something has virtue because it is American. Does the KKK have virtue for being American? Do you want to tangle with an American tornado? I have more in common with a Russian liberal than I have with an American fascist.  

At some point culture matters more than do  the tools of mindless hedonism. If I had to choose between a Honda Accord and a well-stocked collection of books and music costing as much as a pricey sports car and the sports car I would take the former. After all, at my age I wouldn't know what to do with a sports car except to drive it so slow that I would miss out on the alleged thrill. Besides, I lost my fascination with vehicular speed before I ever got a chance to drive a car. I'm one of those people who started acting middle-aged when I was a teenager. That says something.

My mother listened to your music. She was American to the core. Musical taste or preference has nothing to do with whether one is American or not. Whether you are aware or not, there is a natural process that is taking place right now. Americans are leaving Democratic controlled areas by the thousands which is good for America in my opinion. I have no love for the Progressives and they have no love for me or Americans in general. You should know that by now. You're on their side, you're working for them and you should know what that means too. I've spent the last two decades reminding Progressives about the American country and showing them what Americans have the freedom to do and the power to do as well. 4 vs 1 only matters here that's all. Right now in real life, its about 6 vs 4 which means you're done. If it takes a fight to prove its done then so be it. To be honest, I don't know a Democrat who is a Democrat these days. YOU ARE GOING to learn that elections have consequences. Every fucking one of you is going to learn it by the time. Welcome to the Real World boy. I wish you luck and Godspeed.

Didn't you know that Blue Americans are leaving red America too and moving to Blue America? Especially younger people who want to move to places where they can live a full life and have opportunity. It is also the case now that because places like CA and NY are so desirable, housing prices are too high, so some people are leaving there to purple states and helping to gradually turn them blue.

YOu don't have to remind us that sometimes Americans go crazy and vote Republican. That is what has held us back from progress for 40 long years. And since Repblicans cheat, that has not helped us either. Americans have not supported a Democratic president in office during midterm elections since forever. Maybe Kennedy in 1962 and FDR in 1934. 2022 does not look good, but we are not giving up and we will fight you crazies and your mad man demagogue. And lately it has been Republican presidents who are less likely to get re-elected (Bush in 1992 and Trump in 2020).

(01-02-2022, 02:05 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]My mother listened to your music. She was American to the core. Musical taste or preference has nothing to do with whether one is American or not. Whether you are aware or not, there is a natural process that is taking place right now. Americans are leaving Democratic controlled areas by the thousands which is good for America in my opinion. I have no love for the Progressives and they have no love for me or Americans in general. You should know that by now. You're on their side, you're working for them and you should know what that means too. I've spent the last two decades reminding Progressives about the American country and showing them what Americans have the freedom to do and the power to do as well. 4 vs 1 only matters here that's all. Right now in real life, its about 6 vs 4 which means you're done. If it takes a fight to prove its done then so be it. To be honest, I don't know a Democrat who is a Democrat these days. YOU ARE GOING to learn that elections have consequences. Every fucking one of you is going to learn it by the time. Welcome to the Real World boy. I wish you luck and Godspeed.

If people are leaving one area for another, that doesn't imply that their philosophy is being left behind. I moved to Red America 50 years ago. I'm sitll a liberal/progressive. As people move, they rebalance the politics of the area they adopt. Right now, the most targetted area is Texas, with expat Californians providing the anchor votes. Why do you think the Texas Republicans are going so far overboard with voter suppression? It may take a few cycles for the demographics to become undeniable, but they will at some point. The real queston: can you Red Americans tolerate being a more-or-less permanent minority?

Orwell... and Trump.

(01-02-2022, 10:42 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-02-2022, 02:05 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]My mother listened to your (actually mine -- pbrower2a -- which is classical) music. She was American to the core. Musical taste or preference has nothing to do with whether one is American or not. Whether you are aware or not, there is a natural process that is taking place right now. Americans are leaving Democratic controlled areas by the thousands which is good for America in my opinion. I have no love for the Progressives and they have no love for me or Americans in general. You should know that by now. You're on their side, you're working for them and you should know what that means too. I've spent the last two decades reminding Progressives about the American country and showing them what Americans have the freedom to do and the power to do as well. 4 vs 1 only matters here that's all. Right now in real life, its about 6 vs 4 which means you're done. If it takes a fight to prove its done then so be it. To be honest, I don't know a Democrat who is a Democrat these days. YOU ARE GOING to learn that elections have consequences. Every fucking one of you is going to learn it by the time. Welcome to the Real World boy. I wish you luck and Godspeed.

If people are leaving one area for another, that doesn't imply that their philosophy is being left behind.  I moved to Red America 50 years ago.  I'm sitll a liberal/progressive. As people move, they rebalance the politics of the area they adopt.  Right now, the most targetted area is Texas, with expat Californians providing the anchor votes.  Why do you think the Texas Republicans are going so far overboard with voter suppression?  It may take a few cycles for the demographics to become undeniable, but they will at some point.  The real queston: can you Red Americans tolerate being a more-or-less permanent minority?

Values generally don't change much in people from a certain point in time. If they do change then such results from a traumatic experience or from someone redefining points. I used to think of homosexuality as absurd and unnatural and accepted the common view that they were predators upon boys. I have been threatened with gay-bashing, and I came to recognize that the problem isn't so much that I can't convince some hateful person how masculine I am (I'm a sissy) but instead that homophobia is a danger to all of us, at least through loved ones and personal friends. I still abhor the sexual predators, but those gays and lesbians who cannot love outside of their own gender are no threat to me. Law and order is of course necessary for making civil liberties and human rights meaningful, so whatever puts the bulk of homosexuals in the civil mainstream makes my life safer. That means the right to same-sex marriage, non-discrimination in the workplace and commerce, and adoptions by same-sex couples. Homophobic violence? Go to prison, violent offender!

A high level of formal education, especially liberal arts, does not go well with demagogues of any kind. (One solution to our political malaise is to ensure that anyone who wants it and has adequate grades can get two years of liberal-arts education free of charge, with the stipulation that it will include some critical courses that make one more aware of some realities essential to full participation in a social order as complex as ours.

Freshman composition -- so that one can write coherent reports 
economics -- there's no free lunch, but some things create prosperity even if they are given away
psychology -- so that one can understand and reject manipulation
philosophy -- formal logic, ethics, and seeking meaning in life
probability and statistics -- so that one understands numerical reality as applied to human phenomena
comparative political systems -- democracy is flawed, but fascism, Marxism-Leninism, and theocracy all suck
music appreciation -- there is more than pop music, especially folk, jazz, and classical
art appreciation -- one needs something to do with spare time, and art is enriching
leisure sports -- weight control! It's hard to eat chips and drink beer while swimming, golfing, or playing tennis 
world literature -- readers are happier people
comparative religion -- dispel some bigoted myths
geography -- the natural environment and how it affects life and economic circumstances and local culture

If one knows that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same god, then one is less likely to be a religious bigot. There is more to life than what I much disparage as "sex&drugs&rock-n-roll" because it is so d@mned empty. No, I do not mean only wealth, comfort, and bureaucratic power which are themselves primitive desires. To be good, people must be willing to sacrifice some personal comforts and economic certainty.  

Empathy also makes one less likely to stand for extremist ideologies.

(12-31-2021, 06:03 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Our side is keeping schools as open as we can, while your side is already burning or banning books in Virginia due mainly to racist superstitions quite similar to those of Hitler.

Once again, you better open up your eyes and start listening and start getting a sense of where the rest of the country is at right now. You are fucked right now and it's not going to get better from here. It's only going to get worse for you guys. Personally. I don't really care about you and don't really care what happens to you or any of the other blue stooges at this point. So, I'm not really speaking or expressing concerns to you personally. As a matter fact, I've already written you and the others off and more or less discarded you at this point. You'll see how much of America cares about you and the others as time continues. We aren't the ones banning information or banning books or removing the rights of citizens or undermining the American system or breaking the law right now. You will learn that America ain't a bunch of overly religious freaks or ideologues like you and the others. So, how old were you when you started getting indoctrinated by Marxists? BTW, don't tell me you're not because I can see it and know it's true like most Americans these days.

(01-02-2022, 10:42 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-02-2022, 02:05 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]My mother listened to your music. She was American to the core. Musical taste or preference has nothing to do with whether one is American or not. Whether you are aware or not, there is a natural process that is taking place right now. Americans are leaving Democratic controlled areas by the thousands which is good for America in my opinion. I have no love for the Progressives and they have no love for me or Americans in general. You should know that by now. You're on their side, you're working for them and you should know what that means too. I've spent the last two decades reminding Progressives about the American country and showing them what Americans have the freedom to do and the power to do as well. 4 vs 1 only matters here that's all. Right now in real life, its about 6 vs 4 which means you're done. If it takes a fight to prove its done then so be it. To be honest, I don't know a Democrat who is a Democrat these days. YOU ARE GOING to learn that elections have consequences. Every fucking one of you is going to learn it by the time. Welcome to the Real World boy. I wish you luck and Godspeed.

If people are leaving one area for another, that doesn't imply that their philosophy is being left behind.  I moved to Red America 50 years ago.  I'm sitll a liberal/progressive. As people move, they rebalance the politics of the area they adopt.  Right now, the most targetted area is Texas, with expat Californians providing the anchor votes.  Why do you think the Texas Republicans are going so far overboard with voter suppression?  It may take a few cycles for the demographics to become undeniable, but they will at some point.  The real queston: can you Red Americans tolerate being a more-or-less permanent minority?

You live where I live more or less. People like me don't pay much attention to people like you where we live because you're not considered a threat to us right now  Believe me, you want it to stay that way. You don't want to mess with us because we will mess with you if it comes to that. A neighbor like you found that out with me. I doubt people are leaving California to make Texas more like Progressive blue state that they left. I'd say the continuous border problem (the continued influx of illegal immigration) and an understanding of what the Left pulled off and got away with during the last election has more to do with the Republicans tightening up voting laws in their state than the folks who left California and chose Texas to live in and raise their children. Minnesota ain't as Democratic controlled as California, New York or Illinois these days.

What demographics are you referring to, the minority demographic that's causing the bulk of the issues/problems and lagging behind these days that you've been adding more of on a regular basis that's going to drag you down and ruin you eventually? The demographic that we see robbing and trashing stores and torches portions of cities and when it gets upset or doesn't get it's way and so forth. Yeah. You should do something about that demographic other than what you've been doing with it for years. I suggest that you do something about it before America does something about it and find yourselves (wife included) being gathered up and dumped in with that particular demographic and find yourselves fighting to survive in a lawless Democratic shit hole where the majority have been taught to hate white people. I can't think of a better group of people who deserve to go out that way than you guys at this point. Like I said, you better start thinking because American Right is on to you guys and its not going to be long before you start seeing Democrats dropping like flies and what's left of the old GOPer's being replaced by American hardliners who don't have any qualms when it comes to doing battle with Leftists and crushing the Left altogether.

(01-03-2022, 11:32 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

You need a Donkey and a caricature of Chuck Schumer instead of Trump for this to be accurate. It to bad you don't see what we see since everything you have and need to survive is now on the line. I'm not going to feel bad when you can no longer afford to eat or live in your home and the Democratic government can no longer fulfill its obligations because it over extended itself along time ago. I hear California is nice and warm and rich and very very kind and generous to sad sacks.

(01-05-2022, 01:03 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-02-2022, 10:42 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-02-2022, 02:05 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]My mother listened to your music. She was American to the core. Musical taste or preference has nothing to do with whether one is American or not. Whether you are aware or not, there is a natural process that is taking place right now. Americans are leaving Democratic controlled areas by the thousands which is good for America in my opinion. I have no love for the Progressives and they have no love for me or Americans in general. You should know that by now. You're on their side, you're working for them and you should know what that means too. I've spent the last two decades reminding Progressives about the American country and showing them what Americans have the freedom to do and the power to do as well. 4 vs 1 only matters here that's all. Right now in real life, its about 6 vs 4 which means you're done. If it takes a fight to prove its done then so be it. To be honest, I don't know a Democrat who is a Democrat these days. YOU ARE GOING to learn that elections have consequences. Every fucking one of you is going to learn it by the time. Welcome to the Real World boy. I wish you luck and Godspeed.

If people are leaving one area for another, that doesn't imply that their philosophy is being left behind.  I moved to Red America 50 years ago.  I'm sitll a liberal/progressive. As people move, they rebalance the politics of the area they adopt.  Right now, the most targetted area is Texas, with expat Californians providing the anchor votes.  Why do you think the Texas Republicans are going so far overboard with voter suppression?  It may take a few cycles for the demographics to become undeniable, but they will at some point.  The real queston: can you Red Americans tolerate being a more-or-less permanent minority?

You live where I live more or less. People like me don't pay much attention to people like you where we  live because you're not considered a threat to us right now  Believe me, you want it to stay that way. You don't want to mess with us because we will mess with you if it comes to that. A neighbor like you found that out with me. I doubt people are leaving California to make Texas more like Progressive blue state that they left. I'd say the continuous border problem (the continued influx of illegal immigration) and an understanding of what the Left pulled off and got away with during the last election has more to do with the Republicans tightening up voting laws in their state than the folks who left California and chose Texas to live in and raise their children. Minnesota ain't as Democratic controlled as California, New York or Illinois these days.

People are leaving California for Texas to get away from the high rents, the air pollution, and the bad schools. Conservatives about 45 years ago promoted a tax policy that practically froze taxes for landlords and discouraged new construction. Liberals disliked Proposition 13, and they have proved right. California has low property taxes, and property taxes are the usual means of supporting K-12 education. The University of California and State University of California systems are still good, but the K-12 educational system isn't preparing California kids for that. Parents have to be the equivalent of "tiger moms" to ensure that their kids do real learning, which means doing more than the lax educational system demands. "Tiger moms" are heavily associated with certain Model Minorities in America.     

Quote:What demographics are you referring to, the minority demographic that's causing the bulk of the issues/problems and lagging behind these days that you've been adding more of on a regular basis that's going to drag you down and ruin you eventually? The demographic that we see robbing and trashing stores and torches portions of cities and when it gets upset or doesn't get it's way and so forth. Yeah. You should do something about that demographic other than what you've been doing with it for years. I suggest that you do something about it before America does something about it and find yourselves (wife included) being gathered up and dumped in with that particular demographic and find yourselves fighting to survive in a lawless Democratic (profanity excised) hole where the majority have been taught to hate white people. I can't think of a better group of people who deserve to go out that way than you guys at this point. Like I said, you better start thinking because American Right is on to you guys and its not going to be long before you start seeing Democrats dropping like flies and what's left of the old  GOPer's being replaced by American hardliners who don't have any qualms when it comes to doing battle with Leftists and crushing the Left altogether.

White people are doing their share to muck things up in America. Have you ever been to the Mountain and Deep South? Opiates and meth are now largely drugs for the white population. Yes, people doing crimes of any kind are odious people. These are typically sociopaths, psychopaths, or borderline.  I'm all for law and order in the sense that those who do the crime need to do some time at the least as a deterrent. Maybe if someone has a problem messing up his life, then that person needs all appropriate aid in solving that problem.

You tell me -- what non-white people push hatred of white people? LOSERS! Middle-class Hispanics intermarry heavily with white Anglos. Assimilation is ambiguous on the marriages and children. The black bourgeoisie likely intermarries more with white people than do other blacks. Asian-Americans? I've never seen many complaints about the (usually) cute kids.

We liberals have assumed some old conservative virtues that your New Hard Right have cast off. We never had a problem with the Rule of Law or, with legal and diplomatic precedent.  The GOP in the time of Dwight Eisenhower appreciated rational thought, expertise, fair play, self-control, deferred gratification, and formal education as virtues. That now better describes Barack Obama than Donald Trump and many of the stars of the GOP. You've seen my map comparing and contrasting elections involving Obama and Eisenhower. Aside from Obama not getting the consistently right-wing areas dedicated heavily to livestock-raising, Obama and Ike won much the same states.

Quote:Conservatism must redefine itself away from the neoliberal and corporatist (crony capitalist, if not fascist) ways. It will need to renounce Big Government either as a ready source of welfare or of sweet deals to rapacious monopolists. It will need to again promote personal responsibility in improving oneself and in creating wealth.  It will need to recognize the validity of tradition, but not only of white Christians, in establishing a sane alternative to radicalism, demagoguery, and despotism should the Democrats ever nominate people best described as left-wing versions of Donald Trump.  

That is what the GOP was in the 1950's, when Eisenhower could win Massachusetts, Minnesota, and Rhode island twice. Between them those states have gone for the Republican nominee a grand total of four times. Ike won the people of more-than-average education of his time. If you don't believe me, then look at my favorite overlay map:

Quote:When all is said and done, I think that the Obama and Eisenhower Presidencies are going to look like good analogues. Both Presidents are chilly rationalists. Both are practically scandal-free administrations. Both started with a troublesome war that both found their way out of. Neither did much to 'grow' the strength of their Parties in either House of Congress. To compare ISIS to Fidel Castro is completely unfair to Fidel Castro, a gentleman by contrast to ISIS. 

The definitive moderate Republican may have been Dwight Eisenhower, and I have heard plenty of Democrats praise the Eisenhower Presidency. He went along with Supreme Court rulings that outlawed segregationist practices, stayed clear of the McCarthy bandwagon, and let McCarthy implode.


 
gray -- did not vote in 1952 or 1956
white -- Eisenhower twice, Obama twice
deep blue -- Republican all four elections
light blue -- Republican all but 2012 (I assume that greater Omaha went for Ike twice)
light green -- Eisenhower once, Stevenson once, Obama never
dark green -- Stevenson twice, Obama never
pink -- Stevenson twice, Obama once 

No state voted Democratic all four times, so no state is in deep red.

Except to the Biden win of 2020, Obama's victory maps look more like those of Eisenhower with the Parties inverted. Political orientation of the Parties may have changed, but most of the states have not had wild changes in their political cultures.  (Ike is really closest to Hoover in 1928; maybe Ike's America is much like what Hoover wanted America to be). 

A very poor match between Obama and another Democrat is with Carter in 1976:

 
Carter 1976, Obama 2008/2012    



Carter 1976, Obama twice  red
Carter 1976, Obama once pink
Carter 1976, Obama never yellow
Ford 1976, Obama twice white
Ford 1976, Obama once light blue
Ford 1976, Obama never blue

Obviously one would see  as the most similar elections by state results those involving much the same personalities in similar times (Eisenhower versus Stevenson is definitive) and of course the nearly-complete sweeps such as FDR in 1936, Nixon in 1972, and  Reagan in 1984 against weak nominees either depicte4d as extremists or running unusually-inept campaigns. For Obama to win only states and districts that Ike won except for Hawaii and Dee Cee which weren't voting in the 1950's but then (1) while still winning a decisive victory and (2) across lines of partisan identity suggests that Obama and Ike must have conducted themselves quite similarly and sharing much the same values. The political cultures between the states cannot have changed wildly between times of Ike and Obama except in demographics, which applies in relatively few states (rapid growth of Mexican-American populations in the American Southwest).
I have no problem with old-fashioned conservative style in politics. Conservatives used to have virtues.  I find it hard to see what political virtues Donald Trump has. He an ignorant poseur devoid of any moral compass, and something so complex as the President is best under the command of someone who recognizes how complex the Presidency is. 
Oddly I once saw a prediction that Eisenhower that he would try to command the Presidency much as he did an army and  demonstrate that such does not work. Congress will not let any President operate that way, whether Ike (he relied more upon persuasion than command) or Trump (who tried such and failed miserably). One has no powers as President that one does not get from Congress. Trump brought his authoritarian style of governing from  a business model (My way or the highway!) or even the style of a crime boss (My way or die!) which has never been tried by any previous President... and showed why such does not and cannot work. 
In his newly-created role as Emperor (Imperator), Julius Caesar got a role similar to that of President of the United States. The hereditary quality of Emperor would not be understood until Julius Caesar was well off the scene. Julius Caesar found to his chagrin that the Senate would resist his intended reforms, ultimately literally having their knives out for him on the Ides of March. 
As Caesar had Brutus, Trump... may have been lucky to have not been re-elected shadily.