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Welcome to the Hell you voted for, white working class voters.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/50...y-platform

ELECTION 2016
50 Shockingly Extreme Right-Wing Proposals in the 2016 Republican Party Platform
What Trump, a GOP Congress and GOP-appointed Supreme Court would do to America.
By Steven Rosenfeld / AlterNet July 18, 2016

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512 COMMENTS

Photo Credit: http://www.donaldjtrump.com

The Republican Party platform is a wish list for what Republicans in Congress and Donald Trump would like to impose on America. What’s surprising is that it goes further to the right than what’s even been heard on the campaign trail from Trump as he has promised to build a wall along the Mexican border and embrace the religious right’s long-held tenets opposing abortion, LGBT rights and more.

The GOP 2016 platform would make Christianity the official American religion, English the official American language, replace sex education with abstinence-only advice for teenagers, privatize almost all areas of federal services, cut taxes and regulations for the rich and titans of industry, and impose a belligerent foreign policy and military build-up.

Here are 50 excerpts from the 2016 GOP platform.

1. Tax cuts for the rich: "Wherever tax rates penalize thrift or discourage investment, they must be lowered. Wherever current provisions of the code are disincentives for economic growth, they must be changed… We propose to level the international playing field by lowering the corporate tax rate to be on a par with, or below, the rates of other industrial nations."

2. Deregulate the banks: "The Republican vision for American banking calls for establishing transparent, efficient markets where consumers can obtain loans they need at reasonable rates based on market conditions. Unfortunately, in response to the financial institutions crisis of 2008-2009, the Democratic-controlled Congress enacted the Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, otherwise known as Dodd-Frank."

3. Stop consumer protection: "The worst of Dodd-Frank is the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, deliberately designed to be a rogue agency. It answers to neither Congress nor the executive, has its own guaranteed funding outside the appropriations process… If the Bureau is not abolished, it should be subjected to congressional appropriation."

4. Start repealing environmental laws: "We call for a comprehensive review of federal regulations, especially those dealing with the environment, that make it harder and more costly for Americans to rent, buy, or sell homes."

5. Start shrinking unions and union labor: "We renew our call for repeal of the Davis-Bacon law, which limits employment and drives up construction and maintenance costs for the benefit of unions… Although unionization has never been permitted in any government agency concerned with national security, the current Administration has reversed that policy for the Transportation Security Administration. We will correct that mistake… We support the right of states to enact Right-to-Work laws and call for a national law to protect the economic liberty of the modern workforce."

6. Privatize federal railway service: "Amtrak is an extremely expensive railroad for the American taxpayers, who must subsidize every ticket. The federal government should allow private ventures to provide passenger service in the northeast corridor. The same holds true with regard to high-speed and intercity rail across the country. We reaffirm our intention to end federal support for boondoggles like California’s high-speed train to nowhere."

7. No change in federal minimum wage: "Minimum wage is an issue that should be handled at the state and local level."

8. Cut government salaries and benefits: "The taxpayers spend an average of $35,000 a year per employee on non-cash benefits, triple the average non-cash compensation of the average worker in the private sector. Federal employees receive extraordinary pension benefits and vacation time wildly out of line with those of the private sector."

9. Appoint anti-choice Supreme Court justices: "Only a Republican president will appoint judges who respect the rule of law expressed within the Constitution and Declaration of Independence, including the inalienable right to life and the laws of nature and nature’s God, as did the late Justice Antonin Scalia."

10. Appoint anti-LGBT and anti-Obamacare justices: "Only such appointments will enable courts to begin to reverse the long line of activist decisions — including Roe, Obergefell, and the Obamacare cases — that have usurped Congress’s and states’ lawmaking authority."

11. Legalize anti-LGBT discrimination: "We endorse the First Amendment Defense Act, Republican legislation in the House and Senate which will bar government discrimination against individuals and businesses for acting on the belief that marriage is the union of one man and one woman."

12. Make Christianity a national religion: "We support the public display of the Ten Commandments as a reflection of our history and our country’s Judeo-Christian heritage and further affirm the rights of religious students to engage in voluntary prayer at public school events and to have equal access to school facilities."

13. Loosen campaign finance loopholes and dark money: "Freedom of speech includes the right to devote resources to whatever cause or candidate one supports. We oppose any restrictions or conditions that would discourage citizens from participating in the public square or limit their ability to promote their ideas, such as requiring private organizations to publicly disclose their donors to the government."

14. Loosen gun controls nationwide: "We support firearm reciprocity legislation to recognize the right of law-abiding Americans to carry firearms to protect themselves and their families in all 50 states. We support constitutional carry statutes and salute the states that have passed them. We oppose ill-conceived laws that would restrict magazine capacity or ban the sale of the most popular and common modern rifle."

15. Pass an anti-choice constitutional amendment: "We assert the sanctity of human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to children before birth."

16. End federal funding for Planned Parenthood: "We oppose the use of public funds to perform or promote abortion or to fund organizations, like Planned Parenthood, so long as they provide or refer for elective abortions or sell fetal body parts rather than provide healthcare."

17. Allow states to shut down abortion Clinics: "We condemn the Supreme Court’s activist decision in Whole Woman’s Health v. Hellerstedt striking down commonsense Texas laws providing for basic health and safety standards in abortion clinics."

18. Oppose stem cell scientific research: "We oppose embryonic stem cell research. We oppose federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. We support adult stem cell research and urge the restoration of the national placental stem cell bank created by President George H.W. Bush but abolished by his Democrat successor, President Bill Clinton. We oppose federal funding for harvesting embryos and call for a ban on human cloning."

19. Oppose executive branch policy making: "We condemn the current Administration’s unconstitutional expansion into areas beyond those specifically enumerated, including bullying of state and local governments in matters ranging from voter identification (ID) laws to immigration, from healthcare programs to land use decisions, and from forced education curricula to school restroom policies."

20. Oppose efforts to end the electoral college: "We oppose the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact and any other scheme to abolish or distort the procedures of the Electoral College."

21. Require citizenship documents to register to vote: "We support legislation to require proof of citizenship when registering to vote and secure photo ID when voting. We strongly oppose litigation against states exercising their sovereign authority to enact such laws."

22. Ignore undocumented immigrants when drawing congressional districts: "In order to preserve the principle of one person, one vote, we urge our elected representatives to ensure that citizenship, rather than mere residency, be made the basis for the apportionment of representatives among the states."


23. No labeling of GMO ingredients in food products: "The intrusive and expensive federal mandates on food options and menu labeling should be ended as soon as possible by a Republican Congress. We oppose the mandatory labeling of genetically modified food, which has proven to be safe, healthy, and a literal life-saver for millions in the developing world."

24. Add work requirements to welfare and cut food stamps: Nearly all the work requirements for able-bodied adults, instituted by our landmark welfare reform of 1996, have been removed. We will restore those provisions and, to correct a mistake made when the Food Stamp program was first created in 1964, separate the administration of SNAP [Supplemental Nutrition Assistance program] from the Department of Agriculture.

25. Open America’s shores to more oil and gas drilling: "We support the opening of public lands and the outer continental shelf to exploration and responsible production, even if these resources will not be immediately developed."

26. Build the Keystone XL Pipeline: "The Keystone Pipeline has become a symbol of everything wrong with the current Administration’s ideological approach. After years of delay, the President killed it to satisfy environmental extremists. We intend to finish that pipeline and others as part of our commitment to North American energy security."

27. Expand fracking and burying nuclear waste: "A federal judge has struck down the BLM’s rule on hydraulic fracturing and we support upholding this decision. We respect the states’ proven ability to regulate the use of hydraulic fracturing, methane emissions, and horizontal drilling, and we will end the Administration’s disregard of the Nuclear Waste Policy Act with respect to the long-term storage of nuclear waste."

28. No tax on carbon products: "We oppose any carbon tax… We urge the private sector to focus its resources on the development of carbon capture and sequestration technology still in its early stages here and overseas. "

29. Ignore global climate change agreements: "The United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is a political mechanism, not an unbiased scientific institution. Its unreliability is reflected in its intolerance toward scientists and others who dissent from its orthodoxy. We will evaluate its recommendations accordingly. We reject the agendas of both the Kyoto Protocol and the Paris Agreement, which represent only the personal commitments of their signatories; no such agreement can be binding upon the United States until it is submitted to and ratified by the Senate."

30. Privatize Medicare, the health plan for seniors: "Impose no changes for persons 55 or older. Give others the option of traditional Medicare or transition to a premium-support model designed to strengthen patient choice, promote cost-saving competition among providers."

31. Turn Medicaid, the poor’s health plan, over to states: "Moving to a block grant approach would allow for state and local governments to create solutions for individuals and families in desperate need of help in addressing mental illness. We respect the states’ authority and flexibility to exclude abortion providers from federal programs such as Medicaid and other healthcare and family planning programs so long as they continue to perform or refer for elective abortions."

32. No increasing Social Security benefits by taxing the rich: "As Republicans, we oppose tax increases and believe in the power of markets to create wealth and to help secure the future of our Social Security system."


33. Repeal Obamacare: "Any honest agenda for improving healthcare must start with repeal of the dishonestly named Affordable Care Act of 2010: Obamacare."

34. Give internet service providers monopoly control: "The President ordered the chair of the supposedly independent Federal Communications Commission to impose upon the internet rules devised in the 1930s for the telephone monopoly… The internet’s free market needs to be free and open to all ideas and competition without the government or service providers picking winners and losers."

35. Make English the official U.S. language: "We both encourage the preservation of heritage tongues and support English as the nation’s official language, a unifying force essential for the advancement of immigrant communities and our nation as a whole."

36. No amnesty for undocumented immigrants: "Illegal immigration endangers everyone, exploits the taxpayers, and insults all who aspire to enter America legally. We oppose any form of amnesty for those who, by breaking the law, have disadvantaged those who have obeyed it."

37. Build a border wall to keep immigrants out: "Our highest priority, therefore, must be to secure our borders and all ports of entry and to enforce our immigration laws. That is why we support building a wall along our southern border and protecting all ports of entry. The border wall must cover the entirety of the southern border and must be sufficient to stop both vehicular and pedestrian traffic."

38. Require government verification of citizenship of all workers: "Use of the E-verify program — an internet-based system that verifies the employment authorization and identity of employees — must be made mandatory nationwide. We reaffirm our endorsement of the SAVE program — Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements — to ensure that public funds are not given to persons not legally present in this country."

39. Penalize cities that give sanctuary to migrants: "Because 'sanctuary cities' violate federal law and endanger their own citizens, they should not be eligible for federal funding. Using state licenses to reward people in the country illegally is an affront to the rule of law and must be halted."

40. Puerto Rico should be a state but not Washington DC: "We support the right of the United States citizens of Puerto Rico to be admitted to the Union as a fully sovereign state… A [D.C.} statehood amendment was soundly rejected by the states when last proposed in 1976 and should not be revived."

41. Support traditional marriage but no other families: "Children raised in a two-parent household tend to be physically and emotionally healthier, more likely to do well in school, less likely to use drugs and alcohol, engage in crime or become pregnant outside of marriage. We oppose policies and laws that create a financial incentive for or encourage cohabitation."

42. Privatize government services in the name of fighting poverty: "We call for removal of structural impediments which progressives throw in the path of poor people: Over-regulation of start-up enterprises, excessive licensing requirements, needless restrictions on formation of schools and day-care centers serving neighborhood families, and restrictions on providing public services in fields like transport and sanitation."

43. Require bible study in public schools: "A good understanding of the Bible being indispensable for the development of an educated citizenry, we encourage state legislatures to offer the Bible in a literature curriculum as an elective in America’s high schools."

44. Replace traditional public schools with privatized options: "We support options for learning, including home-schooling, career and technical education, private or parochial schools, magnet schools, charter schools, online learning, and early-college high schools."

45. Replace sex education with abstinence-only approaches: "We renew our call for replacing “family planning” programs for teens with sexual risk avoidance education that sets abstinence until marriage as the responsible and respected standard of behavior. That approach — the only one always effective against premarital pregnancy and sexually-transmitted disease — empowers teens to achieve optimal health outcomes. We oppose school-based clinics that provide referral or counseling for abortion and contraception and believe that federal funds should not be used in mandatory or universal mental health, psychiatric, or socio-emotional screening programs."

46. Privatize student loans instead of lowering interest rates: "The federal government should not be in the business of originating student loans. In order to bring down college costs and give students access to a multitude of financing options, private sector participation in student financing should be restored."

47. Restore the death penalty: "The constitutionality of the death penalty is firmly settled by its explicit mention in the Fifth Amendment. With the murder rate soaring in our great cities, we condemn the Supreme Court’s erosion of the right of the people to enact capital punishment in their states."

48. Dramatically increase Pentagon budget: "Quite simply, the Republican Party is committed to rebuilding the U.S. military into the strongest on earth, with vast superiority over any other nation or group of nations in the world."

49. Cancel Iran nuclear treaty and expand nuclear arsenal: "We should abandon arms control treaties that benefit our adversaries without improving our national security. We must fund, develop, and deploy a multi-layered missile defense system. We must modernize nuclear weapons and their delivery platforms."

50. Reaffirm support for Israel and slam sanctions movement: "We reaffirm America’s commitment to Israel’s security and will ensure that Israel maintains a qualitative military edge over any and all adversaries… We reject the false notion that Israel is an occupier and specifically recognize that the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions Movement (BDS) is anti-Semitic in nature and seeks to destroy Israel. Therefore, we call for effective legislation to thwart actions that are intended to limit commercial relations with Israel, or persons or entities doing business in Israel or in Israeli-controlled territories, in a discriminatory manner."

Steven Rosenfeld covers national political issues for AlterNet, including America's retirement crisis, democracy and voting rights, and campaigns and elections. He is the author of "Count My Vote: A Citizen's Guide to Voting" (AlterNet Books, 2008).
(11-11-2016, 06:36 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]I hope dailykos is right.  Obama's focus on direct government spending on infrastructure - which these days is highly capital intensive, unlike in the 1950s - is one of the things that kept the recession going for so long.

Nope. It's the only thing that got us out of the recession. Cuts to government spending by Republicans was the only thing that kept the recession going so long.

What the electoral-vote majority that now rules Amerikkka says, is always the exact opposite of the truth.
I guess we'll have to keep this thread going as long as permitted, with less and less if any humor. Welcome to Trumpland, ruled and guided by our Bigot in Chief.

https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656
Trump goes after immigrants, government workers, the environment, and gay couples — that's day one

By Mark Sumner
Thursday Nov 10, 2016 · 7:40 AM PST
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/11/10...-s-day-one

Rolling back every inch of progress in the last eight years? Not enough. Backed by a Republican Senate and Republican House, Trump is anxious to get more ambitious.

With complete GOP control of the executive and legislative branches, top Republican policy experts see a chance for enacting a sweeping conservative agenda, from tougher immigration laws to tax reform to a repeal of Obamacare, and they want to jump on the bandwagon.

The whole idea of the Republican #NeverTrump movement, or that “true conservatives” would distance themselves from Trump’s … whatever-will-rile-the-crowd-ism, has vanished with the morning sun. The Trump transition team is simply swimming in Republicans eager to join. The winning for Team Trump is just beginning.

Even when the Trump team contemplated victory, they thought they’d be facing a Democratic Senate.

They built a tentative war plan around the premise that Democrats would control the Senate and that a Trump White House would be locked in daily battles with the likes of Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.).
But now that the field is clear, they plan to run, run, run and keep running over every Democratic legislative victory back to FDR. Trump plans to start on day one by sending refugees back into danger, destroying Obama’s legacy, and of course … that wall.

Things that Trump has said he would do on day one ...

Laying out the aims of his administration, Trump said he will “repeal and replace ‘Obamacare,’” “immediately suspend the admission of Syrian refugees,” “order a review of every single regulation issued over the last eight years,” “begin lifting all regulations that are hurting our workers and our businesses,” “terminate every single unconstitutional executive order signed by President Obama,” “restore the rule of law to our land,” “begin implementing plans for construction of a wall along our southern border” and “get rid of” international gangs of thugs and drug cartels — all on his first day.
If Trump was really going to stop at “unconstitutional executive orders,” he’d be done already, because the relatively few orders Obama has issued are not unconstitutional. But that’s obviously not what Trump means.

Obama has used these orders to forestall deportation of the minor children of illegal immigrants; mandate wage increases for government contractors, institute rules regulating greenhouse emissions from power plants, and apply the Family Medical Leave Act to same-sex couples.

Deportations of children will resume. Wages will go down. CO2 will go up. And gay couples will lose their medical leave. That’s all on day one.

President Obama used executive orders where he could to get around a do-nothing Congress, and the nation has benefited from his actions. But there’s no doubt they can be, and will be, undone in an instant.

“During the first 100 days, the presidency will likely become a vehicle for moving the Republican agenda forward,” Mr. Craig said. “Nothing with Obama’s name on it is safe. It will be: ‘Let’s pull out the list of Obama’s sacred cows and slaughter them, one by one.’ ”

One of those “cows” will certainly be the Affordable Care Act. Republicans can certainly be ready on day one with a bill that destroys the ACA and which substitutes the meaningless “allow insurance across state lines.” The secret? There’s no federal law to stop insurance companies from crossing state lines now. It’s just a talking point. For the short term, millions of Americans will simply be without health care and millions more will face an explosion in costs.

Longer term, the Republican “replacement” is likely to be a voucher system, like the one proposed in the Ryan Plan. This also matches Trump’s promised model for the VA.

Don’t expect either of these plans to stop with Obamacare. Ryan’s plan called for Americans born after 1957 to never see Medicare, and the existing program to be destroyed by 2022. What the Republicans put forward will likely be an Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid replacement, all in the vague form of “a voucher system.”

In theory, international treaties like the Iran deal and the Paris climate accords are harder for Trump to “tear up,” as he’s threatened to do, on day one. In practice, he can just as easily ignore them. Trump will support ramping up sanctions against Iran, throwing that agreement into chaos, and remove any limit on greenhouse gases, making the Paris accords moot. US bad faith is likely to then end with both agreements in tatters, even if there’s never an official withdrawal.

Reopening negotiations could also prompt Iran to restart its uranium centrifuges, putting the country back on a path to a nuclear weapon.

Safety and environmental regulations are an easy day one goal. The total dissolution of the EPA, OSHA, MSHA, and BLM will take a little longer. Expect public lands and public resources to be given away in massive blocks. And while the Republicans are destroying institutions, expect the Department of Education to go. Along with support for public libraries, which are singled out in the Ryan Plan. Who needs a library when you can always check Breitbart?

But the number one goal of the Trump administration and the Republicans in Congress will be the same as it always is—taxes.

The centerpiece of Mr. Trump’s plans is a major overhaul of the federal tax code. Mr. Trump has proposed a sharp reduction in the taxation of businesses and a series of changes that would reduce income taxes for most American households. The wealthiest households would see by far the largest reductions in taxes.

The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center estimated that Mr. Trump’s plan would cut federal revenues by $6.2 trillion over the next decade — a significantly larger reduction than the last major round of cuts under President George W. Bush in 2001 and 2003.
Corporations that are already the wealthiest and most profitable in history, are about to get a windfall. Billionaires and millionaires are about to see their taxes vastly reduced, and their wealth sheltered so it can be passed on without limit. Junior and Ivanka and the other one can rest knowing that the money will come their way without diminution.

Everyone else can expect the bill.
A wise and obvious fact from someone I know (who is an American) "But point is that if you ignore the people long enough, someone will come along who doesn't and will give them a voice. That person can be someone like an FDR type person, or as history has shown us, that person can be someone like a Hitler type. Both men were populous."

Ignoring people and hatefully labeling them idiots, racists, bigots etc caused this. Even she knows this. If you will not listen to the kiwi, listen to your own people.
(11-11-2016, 04:54 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-11-2016, 04:40 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-11-2016, 02:03 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-11-2016, 06:52 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-10-2016, 05:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not fighting with Bob. I pointed out to Bob where his partisan views of me were way off again. I associate Bob with a party that regularly engages, encourages, supports and allows the use of anti-white sentiment. The Democrats aren't very smart people. Smart people don't do or allow stupid shit that creates a bigger issue for themselves. Are Democrats capable of pulling their heads out of their asses and using them as intended. We'll see.

I don't see myself as anti-white.  I am white.  I associate with whites.  Remember how during the election Trump pointed out a black guy at one of his rallies?  I can't do this at the moment.  I'm somewhat reclusive, have a small number of close friends and social groups...  Oh.  Wait.  One of the gamers in my Pathfinder RPG circle is black!  I guess I'm at least as integrated as Trump.  I can point at a black person too!  I guess I forgot as her skin pigmentation just doesn't matter to the group at all.  Not a whit.

But I'm not anti-white.  I'm anti-bigot.  It seems to me that many among the Trump deplorables have difficulty distinguishing between the two.  I favor equality, civility, mutual respect, and much else mentioned among Jefferson's self evident truths.  These are core values.  As is typical of humans, I get intense and emotional about defending and advocating my core values.

It is quite possible to dislike racists without disliking whites.  Deplorables might not be able to see this.  Some are so obsessed with the black-white conflict that it becomes us or them at a primal level.

Anyway, in many respects, don't expect Democrats to always be logical and rational.  They have core values that aren't going to shift.  They see the world from a different angle.  They do not see striving for equality, harmony and inclusiveness as stupid.  They are more apt to see it as virtue.  This in the short turn my lead to conflict, but sometimes conflict is appropriate or necessary.

This conflicts unfortunately. They will not listen if you call them names. They do not see it as respectful, civil and showing mutual respect. It is not the right way of going about the issue and it does not show to them you stand by your word that you are civil and show respect. I put a list up here of ways that you can though.

OK, I might have misremembered, but wasn't it Civic who claimed the title 'deplorable' is considered a title of pride among certain groups of people?  Also, 'deplorable' is becoming a code word for 'racist', those who believe white male protestants have a superior place in the world and should be able to harass and insult without hindrance from those promoting political correctness.  Is there a proper politically correct yet descriptive word or phrase for such people that isn't insulting?  Should there be such a word or phrase?  Could you suggest such a word or phrase?

Not all Republicans belong to this class.  One can advocate supply side economics without advocating insulting abusive prejudicial behavior and vice versa.  I disagree with both, but I disagree with supply side in an intellectual way, while the other is a more emotional values driven thing.

I could not say to be honest. I do not follow all threads here. My opinion is the name should not be a title for any sort of pride. It is yet another wedge to divide society. I distrust negative labels because of the fact they are ineffective in their approach to change people to your liking. No I do not think there should be any word or phrase or label for those who are like that. I want to hear these people out rather and see where they got their ideas from. Labeling them does not help. Not listening to them and shutting them down does not help. Mixing them with a massive group such as the republicans CERTAINLY does not help and has caused so much hurt and anger and division. When will we wake up stop the self destruction?

I can sympathize heavily with what you say.

I note that after Trump called Hillary a 'nasty women', a good number of blue leaning ladies embraced the label with pride, buying and using 'nasty woman' T shirts and coffee mugs.  Like it or not, this is a reflection of where we are as a country just now.  Too often the other guy's insults have enough truth behind them to be embraced.

I am also bemused by a perceived need to be politically correct to the enemies of political correctness.  Treating each other with respect is definitely a good goal and those who favor respect should take the lead.  The other guys certainly won't.

Still, the people who are against treating people with respect can't be left unopposed.  When black churches are being burned and spray painted with 'vote Trump', the blue response can't be entirely polite.  You have to talk about the problem clearly and bluntly.

I used 'deplorable' while traditionally in the past I have used 'racist' or 'bigot'.  Gut feel, 'deplorable' seems the gentler word.  Again, I'm open to alternatives.  Silence, though, isn't a valid alternative.
(11-11-2016, 07:48 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-11-2016, 04:54 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-11-2016, 04:40 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-11-2016, 02:03 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-11-2016, 06:52 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see myself as anti-white.  I am white.  I associate with whites.  Remember how during the election Trump pointed out a black guy at one of his rallies?  I can't do this at the moment.  I'm somewhat reclusive, have a small number of close friends and social groups...  Oh.  Wait.  One of the gamers in my Pathfinder RPG circle is black!  I guess I'm at least as integrated as Trump.  I can point at a black person too!  I guess I forgot as her skin pigmentation just doesn't matter to the group at all.  Not a whit.

But I'm not anti-white.  I'm anti-bigot.  It seems to me that many among the Trump deplorables have difficulty distinguishing between the two.  I favor equality, civility, mutual respect, and much else mentioned among Jefferson's self evident truths.  These are core values.  As is typical of humans, I get intense and emotional about defending and advocating my core values.

It is quite possible to dislike racists without disliking whites.  Deplorables might not be able to see this.  Some are so obsessed with the black-white conflict that it becomes us or them at a primal level.

Anyway, in many respects, don't expect Democrats to always be logical and rational.  They have core values that aren't going to shift.  They see the world from a different angle.  They do not see striving for equality, harmony and inclusiveness as stupid.  They are more apt to see it as virtue.  This in the short turn my lead to conflict, but sometimes conflict is appropriate or necessary.

This conflicts unfortunately. They will not listen if you call them names. They do not see it as respectful, civil and showing mutual respect. It is not the right way of going about the issue and it does not show to them you stand by your word that you are civil and show respect. I put a list up here of ways that you can though.

OK, I might have misremembered, but wasn't it Civic who claimed the title 'deplorable' is considered a title of pride among certain groups of people?  Also, 'deplorable' is becoming a code word for 'racist', those who believe white male protestants have a superior place in the world and should be able to harass and insult without hindrance from those promoting political correctness.  Is there a proper politically correct yet descriptive word or phrase for such people that isn't insulting?  Should there be such a word or phrase?  Could you suggest such a word or phrase?

Not all Republicans belong to this class.  One can advocate supply side economics without advocating insulting abusive prejudicial behavior and vice versa.  I disagree with both, but I disagree with supply side in an intellectual way, while the other is a more emotional values driven thing.

I could not say to be honest. I do not follow all threads here. My opinion is the name should not be a title for any sort of pride. It is yet another wedge to divide society. I distrust negative labels because of the fact they are ineffective in their approach to change people to your liking. No I do not think there should be any word or phrase or label for those who are like that. I want to hear these people out rather and see where they got their ideas from. Labeling them does not help. Not listening to them and shutting them down does not help. Mixing them with a massive group such as the republicans CERTAINLY does not help and has caused so much hurt and anger and division. When will we wake up stop the self destruction?

I can sympathize heavily with what you say.

I note that after Trump called Hillary a 'nasty women', a good number of blue leaning ladies embraced the label with pride, buying and using 'nasty woman' T shirts and coffee mugs.  Like it or not, this is a reflection of where we are as a country just now.  Too often the other guy's insults have enough truth behind them to be embraced.

I am also bemused by a perceived need to be politically correct to the enemies of political correctness.  Treating each other with respect is definitely a good goal and those who favor respect should take the lead.  The other guys certainly won't.

Still, the people who are against treating people with respect can't be left unopposed.  When black churches are being burned and spray painted with 'vote Trump', the blue response can't be entirely polite.  You have to talk about the problem clearly and bluntly.

I used 'deplorable' while traditionally in the past I have used 'racist' or 'bigot'.  Gut feel, 'deplorable' seems the gentler word.  Again, I'm open to alternatives.  Silence, though, isn't a valid alternative.
Yes and that is why i address this to both sides. Not just lefties.

"I am also bemused by a perceived need to be politically correct to the enemies of political correctness.  Treating each other with respect is definitely a good goal and those who favor respect should take the lead.  The other guys certainly won't."
Well I feel people should lead by example. it may catch, it may not. But we will not know unless we try. At least we will not lower standards further by going down to their level as well as add to the division.

"Still, the people who are against treating people with respect can't be left unopposed.  When black churches are being burned and spray painted with 'vote Trump', the blue response can't be entirely polite.  You have to talk about the problem clearly and bluntly."
Here's the thing, I agree! Those who do those things must be held accountable. But not with the approach that has been used so far. There needs to be communication. Not the labeling and what side did what and black white, left right did this n that. Those too are wedges in society. Media has made it worse for one thing. I just think there should be an unbiased approach that identifies the real criminals and actually get down to the root of the problem with these people. Labeling yields no positive results that I can see anyway. Often it is also directed at the wrong people.

"Silence, though, isn't a valid alternative."
I also agree. But we must target the actual people not label the wrong people. More respectful communication is needed. A rational and productive approach to targeting this problem. Hate breeds more hate.
(11-11-2016, 07:17 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Trump goes after immigrants, government workers, the environment, and gay couples — that's day one

By Mark Sumner  
Thursday Nov 10, 2016 · 7:40 AM PST
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/11/10...-s-day-one

Rolling back every inch of progress in the last eight years? Not enough. Backed by a Republican Senate and Republican House, Trump is anxious to get more ambitious.

With complete GOP control of the executive and legislative branches, top Republican policy experts see a chance for enacting a sweeping conservative agenda, from tougher immigration laws to tax reform to a repeal of Obamacare, and they want to jump on the bandwagon.

The whole idea of the Republican #NeverTrump movement, or that “true conservatives” would distance themselves from Trump’s … whatever-will-rile-the-crowd-ism, has vanished with the morning sun. The Trump transition team is simply swimming in Republicans eager to join. The winning for Team Trump is just beginning.

Even when the Trump team contemplated victory, they thought they’d be facing a Democratic Senate.

They built a tentative war plan around the premise that Democrats would control the Senate and that a Trump White House would be locked in daily battles with the likes of Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.).
But now that the field is clear, they plan to run, run, run and keep running over every Democratic legislative victory back to FDR. Trump plans to start on day one by sending refugees back into danger, destroying Obama’s legacy, and of course … that wall.

Things that Trump has said he would do on day one ...

Laying out the aims of his administration, Trump said he will “repeal and replace ‘Obamacare,’” “immediately suspend the admission of Syrian refugees,” “order a review of every single regulation issued over the last eight years,” “begin lifting all regulations that are hurting our workers and our businesses,” “terminate every single unconstitutional executive order signed by President Obama,” “restore the rule of law to our land,” “begin implementing plans for construction of a wall along our southern border” and “get rid of” international gangs of thugs and drug cartels — all on his first day.
If Trump was really going to stop at “unconstitutional executive orders,” he’d be done already, because the relatively few orders Obama has issued are not unconstitutional. But that’s obviously not what Trump means.

Obama has used these orders to forestall deportation of the minor children of illegal immigrants; mandate wage increases for government contractors, institute rules regulating greenhouse emissions from power plants, and apply the Family Medical Leave Act to same-sex couples.

Deportations of children will resume. Wages will go down. CO2 will go up. And gay couples will lose their medical leave. That’s all on day one.

President Obama used executive orders where he could to get around a do-nothing Congress, and the nation has benefited from his actions. But there’s no doubt they can be, and will be, undone in an instant.

“During the first 100 days, the presidency will likely become a vehicle for moving the Republican agenda forward,” Mr. Craig said. “Nothing with Obama’s name on it is safe. It will be: ‘Let’s pull out the list of Obama’s sacred cows and slaughter them, one by one.’ ”

One of those “cows” will certainly be the Affordable Care Act. Republicans can certainly be ready on day one with a bill that destroys the ACA and which substitutes the meaningless “allow insurance across state lines.” The secret? There’s no federal law to stop insurance companies from crossing state lines now. It’s just a talking point. For the short term, millions of Americans will simply be without health care and millions more will face an explosion in costs.

Longer term, the Republican “replacement” is likely to be a voucher system, like the one proposed in the Ryan Plan. This also matches Trump’s promised model for the VA.

Don’t expect either of these plans to stop with Obamacare. Ryan’s plan called for Americans born after 1957 to never see Medicare, and the existing program to be destroyed by 2022. What the Republicans put forward will likely be an Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid replacement, all in the vague form of “a voucher system.”

In theory, international treaties like the Iran deal and the Paris climate accords are harder for Trump to “tear up,” as he’s threatened to do, on day one. In practice, he can just as easily ignore them. Trump will support ramping up sanctions against Iran, throwing that agreement into chaos, and remove any limit on greenhouse gases, making the Paris accords moot. US bad faith is likely to then end with both agreements in tatters, even if there’s never an official withdrawal.

Reopening negotiations could also prompt Iran to restart its uranium centrifuges, putting the country back on a path to a nuclear weapon.

Safety and environmental regulations are an easy day one goal. The total dissolution of the EPA, OSHA, MSHA, and BLM will take a little longer. Expect public lands and public resources to be given away in massive blocks. And while the Republicans are destroying institutions, expect the Department of Education to go. Along with support for public libraries, which are singled out in the Ryan Plan. Who needs a library when you can always check Breitbart?

But the number one goal of the Trump administration and the Republicans in Congress will be the same as it always is—taxes.

The centerpiece of Mr. Trump’s plans is a major overhaul of the federal tax code. Mr. Trump has proposed a sharp reduction in the taxation of businesses and a series of changes that would reduce income taxes for most American households. The wealthiest households would see by far the largest reductions in taxes.

The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center estimated that Mr. Trump’s plan would cut federal revenues by $6.2 trillion over the next decade — a significantly larger reduction than the last major round of cuts under President George W. Bush in 2001 and 2003.
Corporations that are already the wealthiest and most profitable in history, are about to get a windfall. Billionaires and millionaires are about to see their taxes vastly reduced, and their wealth sheltered so it can be passed on without limit. Junior and Ivanka and the other one can rest knowing that the money will come their way without diminution.

Everyone else can expect the bill.



Eric stop reading that cheetohead crap
You'd better read it. Wake up.......

You all know from reading this thread that I started, that I don't think much of Trump, to put it mildly. From everything I've been reading, from various sources (not just Daily Kos), I see that Trump is going to be far worse than I even imagined, much like dubya was even worse than I imagined. And I imagined him to be dreadful too.

Amerikkka is ON TRACK TO BE THE TRULY EVIL EMPIRE.
I'm starting to think I should quit everything else I'm doing, and become a full-time Trump basher and resister. Well, I'll think about it............ I seem to be doing nothing else so far.........
Yes you are kind of loosing it. Take a deep breath, Eric. You will give yourself a heart attack. Sad
I think we need to take a break and review the results after Trump has been in office for a few months. Then we could discuss facts instead of endless speculations.
(11-11-2016, 08:47 PM)radind Wrote: [ -> ]I think we need to take a break and review the results after Trump has been in office for a few months. Then we could discuss facts instead of endless speculations.

I agree. People are getting wound up in knots atm.
(11-11-2016, 08:22 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]You'd better read it. Wake up.......

You all know from reading this thread that I started, that I don't think much of Trump, to put it mildly. From everything I've been reading, from various sources (not just Daily Kos), I see that Trump is going to be far worse than I even imagined, much like dubya was even worse than I imagined. And I imagined him to be dreadful too.

Amerikkka is ON TRACK TO BE THE TRULY EVIL EMPIRE.


-- l am woke up. l voted Bernie  & then Jill
(11-11-2016, 08:56 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-11-2016, 08:47 PM)radind Wrote: [ -> ]I think we need to take a break and review the results after Trump has been in office for a few months. Then we could discuss facts instead of endless speculations.

I agree. People are getting wound up in knots atm.

When in trouble, or in doubt,
Run in circles, scream and shout.
(11-11-2016, 10:00 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-11-2016, 08:56 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-11-2016, 08:47 PM)radind Wrote: [ -> ]I think we need to take a break and review the results after Trump has been in office for a few months. Then we could discuss facts instead of endless speculations.

I agree. People are getting wound up in knots atm.

When in trouble, or in doubt,
Run in circles, scream and shout.
hahahahaha! Big Grin Tongue
(11-11-2016, 08:47 PM)radind Wrote: [ -> ]I think we need to take a break and review the results after Trump has been in office for a few months. Then we could discuss facts instead of endless speculations.

I don't think the reports I posted about the decisions he's making are speculations.

But he is the president, so we'll see.

We also know what Paul Ryan wants to do, and what the Republican platform is. What is clear is that the fluke election of 1980, now more than half my life ago, has still not been reversed, and the count continues of the reign of trickle-down economics. Now 36 years, and to continue now for at least 4 more and probably more. Our nation cannot continue to prosper and our people cannot continue to prosper under the system. We are declining, and have been all this time. Just reducing the government, which was never the problem, will not solve our problems. We can't continue to blame people who get benefits for our low wages and slow business, instead of the folks who refuse to pay us fair wages and give endless breaks to them. That seems so obvious, and yet the people keep voting for more trickle-down economics. These are facts, not endless speculations. What seems to be endless, is the constant dumbing down of the people, so that they keep making stupid decisions on election day. It's tragic.
(11-11-2016, 10:00 PM)Marypoza Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-11-2016, 08:22 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]You'd better read it. Wake up.......

You all know from reading this thread that I started, that I don't think much of Trump, to put it mildly. From everything I've been reading, from various sources (not just Daily Kos), I see that Trump is going to be far worse than I even imagined, much like dubya was even worse than I imagined. And I imagined him to be dreadful too.

Amerikkka is ON TRACK TO BE THE TRULY EVIL EMPIRE.


-- l am woke up. l voted Bernie  & then Jill

So why did you knock the article I posted, from folks who support Bernie?

We're going to need to focus to have any chance to stop this agenda.
I see on the news that Ivanka Trump along with his two sons and nephew are on his transition team with Mike Pence. Remember my prediction. Ivanka will probably get a post in the administration; that's a start to her political career. The new dynasty is here. Ivanka Trump: horoscope score 14-1!