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For convictions of major political figures (including militia leaders, heads of state, chiefs of state, and high-ranking military/police/intelligence figures) for crimes against humanity.

First here:

Hissène Habré (Chadian Arabic: حسين حبري  [hiˈsɛn ˈhabre]; born 13 September 1942), also spelled Hissen Habré, is a former Chadian dictator who is known for being the leader of Chad from 1982 until he was deposed in 1990.

He was brought to power with the support of France and the United States, who provided training, arms and financing.In May 2016 he was found guilty of human-rights abuses, including rape, sexual slavery and ordering the killing of 40,000 people, and sentenced to life in prison.

Habré was born in 1942 in Faya-Largeau, northern Chad, then a colony of France, into a family of shepherds. He is a member of the Anakaza branch of the Daza ethnic group, which is itself a branch of the Toubou ethnic group.[1] After primary schooling, he obtained a post in the French colonial administration, where he impressed his superiors and gained a scholarship to study in France at the Institute of Overseas Higher Studies in Paris. He completed a university degree in political science in Paris, and returned to Chad in 1971. He also obtained several other degrees and earned his Doctorate from the Institute. After a further brief period of government service as a deputy prefect,[2] he visited Tripoli and joined the National Liberation Front of Chad (FROLINAT) where he became a commander in the Second Liberation Army of FROLINAT along with Goukouni Oueddei. After Abba Siddick assumed the leadership of FROLINAT, the Second Liberation Army, first under Oueddei's command and then under Habré's, split from FROLINAT and became the Command Council of the Armed Forces of the North (CCFAN). In 1976 Oueddei and Habré quarreled and Habré split his newly named Armed Forces of the North (Forces Armées du Nord or FAN) from Goukouni's followers who adopted the name of People's Armed Forces (Forces Armées Populaires or FAP). Both FAP and FAN operated in the extreme north of Chad, drawing their fighters from the Toubou nomadic people.

Habré first came to international attention when a group under his command attacked the town of Bardaï in Tibesti, on 21 April 1974, and took three Europeans hostage, with the intention of ransoming them for money and arms. The captives were a German physician, Dr. Christoph Staewen (whose wife Elfriede was killed in the attack), and two French citizens, Françoise Claustre, an archeologist, and Marc Combe, a development worker. Staewen was released on 11 June 1974 after significant payments by West German officials.[3][4][5] Combe escaped in 1975, but despite the intervention of the French Government, Claustre (whose husband was a senior French government official) was not released until 1 February 1977. Habré split with Oueddei, partly over this hostage-taking incident (which became known as the "Claustre affair" in France).[2]

In August 1978 Habré was given the post of prime minister of Chad as part of an alliance with Gen. Félix Malloum.[2]:27[6]:353 However, the power-sharing alliance did not last long. In February 1979 Habré's forces and the national army under Malloum fought in N'Djamena. The fighting effectively left Chad without a national government. Several attempts were made by other nations to resolve the crisis, resulting in a new national government in November 1979 in which Habré was appointed Minister of Defense.[6]:353 However, fighting resumed within a matter of weeks. In December 1980 Habré was driven into exile in Sudan.[6]:354 In 1982 he resumed his fight against the Chadian government. FAN won control of N'Djamena on 7 June and appointed Habré as head of state.[2]:30, 151

Habré seized power in Chad and ruled from 1982 until he was deposed in 1990 by Idriss Déby. Habré's one-party régime, like many others before his, was characterized by widespread human rights abuses and atrocities. He denies killing and torturing tens of thousands of his opponents, although in 2012 the UN's International Court of Justice (ICJ) ordered Senegal to put him on trial or extradite him to face justice overseas.[7]

Following his rise to power Habré created a secret police force known as the Documentation and Security Directorate (DDS), under which his opponents were tortured and executed.[8] Some methods of torture commonly used by the DDS included burning the body of the detainee with incandescent objects, spraying gas into their eyes, ears and nose, forced swallowing of water, and forcing the mouths of detainees around the exhaust pipes of running cars.[9] Habré's government also periodically engaged in ethnic cleansing against groups such as the Sara, Hadjerai and the Zaghawa, killing and arresting group members in masses when it was perceived that their leaders posed a threat to the regime.[8]

Habré fled to Senegal after being overthrown in 1990. He was placed under house arrest in 2005 until his arrest in 2013. He is accused of war crimes and torture during his eight years in power in Chad, where rights groups say that some 40,000 people were killed under his rule.[10] Human Rights Watch claims that 1,200 were killed and 12,000 were tortured, and a domestic Chadian commission of inquiry claims that as many as 40,000 were killed and that more than 200,000 were subjected to torture. Human Rights Watch later dubbed Habré "Africa's Pinochet."[11][12][13]

Libya invaded Chad in July 1980, occupying and annexing the Aozou Strip. The United States and France responded by aiding Chad in an attempt to contain Libya's regional ambitions under Libyan leader Muammar al-Gaddafi.[6]:354
In 1980, the unity government signed a treaty of friendship and cooperation with Libya. The treaty allowed the Chadian government to call on Libya for assistance if Chad's independence or internal security was threatened.[2]:191 The Libyan army was soon assisting the government forces, under Goukouni, and ousted FAN from much of northern Chad, including N'Djamena on December 15.[2]:191 Libyan troops withdrew in November 1981. Without their support, Goukouni's government troops were weakened and Habré capitalized on this and his FAN militia entered N'Djamena on 7 June 1982.[2]:191[6]:354–355 In 1983, Libyan troops returned to Chad and remained in the country, supporting Goukouni's militia, until 1988.[2]:193–198[6]:354–356

Despite this victory, Habré's government was weak, and strongly opposed by members of the Zaghawa ethnic group. A rebel offensive in November 1990, which was led by Idriss Déby, a Zaghawa former army commander who had participated in a plot against Habré in 1989 and subsequently fled to Sudan, defeated Habré's forces. The French chose not to assist Habré on this occasion, allowing him to be ousted; it is possible that they actively aided Déby. Explanation and speculation regarding the reasons for France's abandonment of Habré include the adoption of a policy of non-interference in intra-Chadian conflicts, dissatisfaction with Habré's unwillingness to move towards multiparty democracy, and favoritism by Habré towards American rather than French companies with regard to oil development. Habré fled to Cameroon, and the rebels entered N'Djamena on 2 December 1990; Habré subsequently went into exile in Senegal.[14]

The United States and France supported Habré, seeing him as a bulwark against the Gaddafi government in neighboring Libya. Under President Ronald Reagan, the United States gave covert CIA paramilitary support to help Habré take power and remained one of Habré's strongest allies throughout his rule, providing his regime with massive amounts of military aid.[15] The United States also used a clandestine base in Chad to train captured Libyan soldiers whom it was organizing into an anti-Qaddafi force.[16]

"The CIA was so deeply involved in bringing Habré to power I can't conceive they didn't know what was going on," said Donald Norland, U.S. ambassador to Chad from 1979 to 1981. "But there was no debate on the policy and virtually no discussion of the wisdom of doing what we did."[17]

Documents obtained by Human Rights Watch show that the United States provided Habré's DDS with training, intelligence, arms, and other support despite knowledge of its atrocities. Records discovered in the DDS' meticulous archives describe training programs by American instructors for DDS agents and officials, including a course in the United States that was attended by some of the DDS' most feared torturers. According to the Chadian Truth Commission, the United States also provided the DDS with monthly infusions of monetary aid and financed a regional network of intelligence networks code-named "Mosaic" that Chad used to pursue suspected opponents of Habré's regime even after they fled the country.[16]

In the summer of 1983, when Libya invaded northern Chad and threatened to topple Habré, France sent paratroops with air support, while the Reagan administration provided two AWACS electronic surveillance planes to coordinate air cover. By 1987 Gaddafi's forces had retreated.[2]:199–200[6]:355–356

"Habré was a remarkably able man with a brilliant sense of how to play the outside world," a former senior U.S. official said. "He was also a bloodthirsty tyrant and torturer. It is fair to say we knew who and what he was and chose to turn a blind eye."[17]

Human rights groups hold Habré responsible for the killing of thousands of people, but the exact number is unknown. Killings included massacres against ethnic groups in the south (1984), against the Hadjerai (1987), and against the Zaghawa (1989). Human Rights Watch charged him with having authorized tens of thousands of political murders and physical torture.[18] Habré had been called "the African Pinochet,"[19][20][21] in reference to former Chilean ruler Augusto Pinochet.[19]

The government of Idriss Deby established a Commission of Inquiry into the Crimes and Misappropriations Committed by Ex-President Habré, His Accomplices and/or Accessories in 1990, which reported that 40,000 people had been killed, but did not follow up on its recommendations.

Conviction by the Special Tribunal in Senegal

On 30 May 2016, the Extraordinary African Chambers found Habré guilty of rape, sexual slavery, and ordering the killing of 40,000 people during his tenure as Chadian president and sentenced him to life in prison. The verdict marked the first time an African Union-backed court convicted a former ruler for human-rights abuses and the first time that the courts of one country have prosecuted the former ruler of another country for crimes against humanity.[20][49][50][19]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiss%C3%A8ne_Habr%C3%A9
AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - Congolese politician Jean-Pierre Bemba was sentenced to 18 years in prison by the International Criminal Court on Tuesday for heading a 2002-03 campaign of rape and murder in neighboring Central African Republic.

Bemba, a former Democratic Republic of Congo vice-president, is the first person that the global war crimes court has held directly responsible for his subordinates’ crimes.

Judge Sylvia Steiner said troops from the Movement for the Liberation of Congo (MLC), which Bemba directed, had acted with “particular cruelty” when they rampaged through the neighboring country in support of then-president Ange-Felix Patasse.

One victim had described how, still a virgin, she had been raped in front of her father while other soldiers held the father at gunpoint.

“After the attacks, some parents found their daughters lying on the ground crying and bleeding from their vaginas,” Steiner said, describing as an aggravating circumstance the fact that victims had been “particularly defenseless.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jean...74?section=

Sure it's disgusting. It happens, and it is inexcusable anywhere.
HARDAN, Iraq (AP) — Peering through binoculars, the young man watched as Islamic State extremists gunned down the handcuffed men and then buried them with a waiting bulldozer. For six days he watched as IS filled one grave after another with his friends and neighbors.

The five graves arranged at the foot of Sinjar mountain hold the bodies of dozens of minority Yazidis killed in the Islamic State group's bloody onslaught in August 2014. They are a fraction of the mass graves Islamic State extremists have scattered across Iraq and Syria.

In exclusive interviews, photos and research, The Associated Press has documented and mapped 72 of the mass graves, the most comprehensive survey so far, with many more expected to be uncovered as the Islamic State group's territory shrinks.

In Syria, AP has obtained locations for 17 mass graves, including one with the bodies of hundreds of members of a single tribe all but exterminated when IS extremists took over their region.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/7b5389294...s-ap-finds

Count on some convictions. The Iraqi government does not hesitate to execute what may be the worst mass murderers since the Khmer Rouge:

Quote:Justice has been done in at least one IS mass killing — that of about 1,700 Iraqi soldiers who were machine-gunned at Camp Speicher. On Aug. 21, 36 IS militants were hanged for those deaths.
Daesh is to the Islamic world what Nazis were to the Christian world. Humanity already shudders at the horror that Daesh has wrought. Add to the genocide against the Holodomor, the Porajmos, the Atlantic slave trade, mass killings of First Peoples, Pol Pot's killing fields, the horrors of Leopold II's Congo, the preliminary Holocaust of the Nazi conquerors against the Polish leadership* class, the holocaust against the Armenians, and of course the Shoah... the horrors of Daesh.

I look forward to seeing the monsters on trial for crimes against Islam as well as against Humanity as a whole .  Having posed as arbiters of Islam (at least Nazis never posed as the purest expressions of Christianity) they can be judged by Islam.

There will be much death as retribution. Daesh took life on the most spurious of pretexts, and Islam is swift to apply the sword (Iraqi style is the noose) upon the worst offenders. "36 militants" for 1700 deaths? Some of those executed were not at the scene -- but they knew enough to get away from the scene and let others do the machine-gunning. People making decisions at the Wannsee Conference or in the Reichskanslei could be just as lethal in their behavior as the sergeant who introduced the cyanide pellets into the gas chambers.

Life is precious lest it be meaningless.

* I live in an area with many Polish-Americans. This one needs be remembered, too.
Ex-Bosnian Serb commander Mladic convicted of genocide, gets life in prison




Quote:THE HAGUE (Reuters) - A U.N. tribunal on Wednesday convicted ex-Bosnian Serb military commander Ratko Mladic of genocide and crimes against humanity for massacres of Bosnian Muslims and ethnic cleansing campaigns to forge a "Greater Serbia", and jailed him for life.

Mladic was hustled out of the court minutes before the verdict for angrily shouting, "This is all lies, you are all liars!" The outburst occurred after Mladic returned to the courtroom from what his lawyers described as a visit to the bathroom, then a blood pressure test which held up proceedings.

The U.N. Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) found Mladic guilty of 10 of 11 charges, including the slaughter of 8,000 Muslim men and boys at Srebrenica and the 43-month siege of the Bosnian capital Sarajevo, in which more than 10,000 civilians were killed by shelling, mortar and sniper fire.

The killings in Srebrenica of men and boys after they were separated from women and taken away in buses or marched off to be shot amounted to Europe's worst atrocity since World War Two.

"The crimes committed rank among the most heinous known to humankind, and include genocide and extermination as a crime against humanity," Presiding Judge Alphons Orie said in reading out a summary of the judgment.

"Many of these men and boys were cursed, insulted, threatened, forced to sing Serb songs and beaten while awaiting their execution," he said.

Mladic had pleaded not guilty to all charges. His legal team said he would appeal against the verdict.

Called the "Butcher of Bosnia" by survivors of his actions, Mladic was the most notorious of 163 ICTY indictees together with Radovan Karadzic, the former Bosnian Serb nationalist leader and political mastermind of ethnic cleansing, and their patron, then-Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic.

The tribunal found Mladic "significantly contributed" to genocide committed in Srebrenica with the goal of destroying its Muslim population, "personally directed" the bombardment of Sarajevo and was part of a "joint criminal enterprise" aimed at purging Bosnian Muslims and Catholic Croats from Bosnia.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ex-bosnian-se...21552.html
May this man discover at the Day of Judgment that God is Allah and Mohammad is His Greatest Prophet!
Assad is just as bad as the Islamic State (Daesh, ISIS, ISIL), and much more deadly. Assad has killed hundreds of thousands in Syria and forced millions out of his destroyed country. Now that his fellow war criminal Putin came and propped him up with more horrific crimes, Assad is still in power, but he does not yet control the portions of Syria liberated from the IS by the Kurds and native Syrians who are from or near the territories which the IS controlled. The Kurds may continue the rebellion against Assad if he comes in and bombs and destroys them as he has the rest of his country. If and when this happens, what would the USA do to support these groups, whom they supported in their fight against the IS?
No conviction yet, but solid evidence about Sarin attacks in Syria.

Quote:THE HAGUE (Reuters) - The Syrian government’s chemical weapons stockpile has been linked for the first time by laboratory tests to the largest sarin nerve agent attack of the civil war, diplomats and scientists told Reuters, supporting Western claims that government forces under President Bashar al-Assad were behind the atrocity.


Laboratories working for the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons compared samples taken by a U.N. mission in the Damascus suburb of Ghouta after the Aug. 21, 2013 attack, when hundreds of civilians died of sarin gas poisoning, to chemicals handed over by Damascus for destruction in 2014.
(For a graphic on chemical attacks click tmsnrt.rs/2pKDWOY )

The tests found “markers” in samples taken at Ghouta and at the sites of two other nerve agent attacks, in the towns of Khan Sheikhoun in Idlib governorate on April 4, 2017 and Khan al-Assal, Aleppo, in March 2013, two people involved in the process said.

“We compared Khan Sheikhoun, Khan al-Assal, Ghouta,” said one source who asked not to be named because of the sensitivity of the findings. “There were signatures in all three of them that matched.”

The same test results were the basis for a report by the OPCW-United Nations Joint Investigative Mechanism in October which said the Syrian government was responsible for the Khan Sheikhoun attack, which killed dozens.

from Reuters.
WASHINGTON — Syrian Kurdish fighters have detained two British men infamous for their role in the Islamic State’s imprisonment, torture and killing of Western hostages, according to American officials.

The men were part of a group of four Islamic State militants known as the Beatles because of their British accents. Officials identified the two men captured as Alexanda Kotey and El Shafee Elsheikh. They were the last two members of the group to remain at large.

The ringleader, Mohammed Emwazi, was killed in an airstrike in 2015 in Syria after an intensive manhunt. Known as Jihadi John, he beheaded American and British hostages. A fourth man, Aine Davis, is imprisoned in Turkey on terrorism charges.

All four had lived in West London. Mr. Kotey, born in London, is of Ghanaian and Greek Cypriot background, while Mr. Elsheikh’s family fled Sudan in the 1990s. Both men have been designated foreign terrorists by the United States.

The British extremists were known for their brutality. They repeatedly beat the hostages they kept imprisoned in Raqqa, Syria, formerly the Islamic State’s self-declared capital, and subjected them to waterboarding and mock executions. Mr. Emwazi was believed to have killed the American journalists James Foley and Steven Sotloff, as well as Abdul-Rahman Kassig, an aid worker. The American government says the group beheaded more than 27 hostages.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/08/us/po...syria.html

A hint: they do not want to end up in Terre Haute, Indiana, where Timothy McVeigh met his end.
It looks as if former Guatemalan dictator Efrain Rios Montt has begun to face Divine judgment. May he find that God is a member of a First Peoples nation (such as the Maya of Guatemala).
(11-23-2017, 02:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Assad is just as bad as the Islamic State (Daesh, ISIS, ISIL), and much more deadly. Assad has killed hundreds of thousands in Syria and forced millions out of his destroyed country. Now that his fellow war criminal Putin came and propped him up with more horrific crimes, Assad is still in power, but he does not yet control the portions of Syria liberated from the IS by the Kurds and native Syrians who are from or near the territories which the IS controlled. The Kurds may continue the rebellion against Assad if he comes in and bombs and destroys them as he has the rest of his country. If and when this happens, what would the USA do to support these groups, whom they supported in their fight against the IS?

Boomers need to understand that Assad is Syria's legitimate government. Syria is a sovereign state and is not bound by western laws. Boomers have to accept that the Syrian government is the legitimate authority within Syria's sovereign boundaries.
(04-05-2018, 08:58 PM)Cynic Hero Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-23-2017, 02:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Assad is just as bad as the Islamic State (Daesh, ISIS, ISIL), and much more deadly. Assad has killed hundreds of thousands in Syria and forced millions out of his destroyed country. Now that his fellow war criminal Putin came and propped him up with more horrific crimes, Assad is still in power, but he does not yet control the portions of Syria liberated from the IS by the Kurds and native Syrians who are from or near the territories which the IS controlled. The Kurds may continue the rebellion against Assad if he comes in and bombs and destroys them as he has the rest of his country. If and when this happens, what would the USA do to support these groups, whom they supported in their fight against the IS?

Boomers need to understand that Assad is Syria's legitimate government. Syria is a sovereign state and is not bound by western laws. Boomers have to accept that the Syrian government is the legitimate authority within Syria's sovereign boundaries.

Should he be overthrown as was Satan Hussein in Iraq, nobody will need a horoscope to predict his fate. Necktie party if he survives. Genocide is good for a hanging.
(04-05-2018, 08:58 PM)Cynic Hero Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-23-2017, 02:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Assad is just as bad as the Islamic State (Daesh, ISIS, ISIL), and much more deadly. Assad has killed hundreds of thousands in Syria and forced millions out of his destroyed country. Now that his fellow war criminal Putin came and propped him up with more horrific crimes, Assad is still in power, but he does not yet control the portions of Syria liberated from the IS by the Kurds and native Syrians who are from or near the territories which the IS controlled. The Kurds may continue the rebellion against Assad if he comes in and bombs and destroys them as he has the rest of his country. If and when this happens, what would the USA do to support these groups, whom they supported in their fight against the IS?

Boomers need to understand that Assad is Syria's legitimate government. Syria is a sovereign state and is not bound by western laws. Boomers have to accept that the Syrian government is the legitimate authority within Syria's sovereign boundaries.

We all need to understand that Syria is a monster, and is the single greatest cause of our crisis today. Smart Boomers and all enlightened folks all recognize that human rights are our birthright, and tyrants like Assad are relics from the Age of Mars whom Cynic Hero represents and is stuck in.

http://philosopherswheel.com/planetarydynamics.html
Here is quite a good article on why the resistance to what the alt-right loonies like Trump call "globalization" is just a reactionary phase we are going through as we face today's breakdown of the nation state as we know it, and that the cure for the domination of the global financial elite, is more global civic regulation.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/ap...a-dasgupta

the article's conclusion: On the eve of its centenary, our nation-state system is already in a crisis from which it does not currently possess the capacity to extricate itself. It is time to think how that capacity might be built. We do not yet know what it will look like. But we have learned a lot from the economic and technological phases of globalisation, and we now possess the basic concepts for the next phase: building the politics of our integrated world system. We are confronted, of course, by an enterprise of political imagination as significant as that which produced the great visions of the 18th century – and, with them, the French and American Republics. But we are now in a position to begin.
(04-05-2018, 08:58 PM)Cynic Hero Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-23-2017, 02:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Assad is just as bad as the Islamic State (Daesh, ISIS, ISIL), and much more deadly. Assad has killed hundreds of thousands in Syria and forced millions out of his destroyed country. Now that his fellow war criminal Putin came and propped him up with more horrific crimes, Assad is still in power, but he does not yet control the portions of Syria liberated from the IS by the Kurds and native Syrians who are from or near the territories which the IS controlled. The Kurds may continue the rebellion against Assad if he comes in and bombs and destroys them as he has the rest of his country. If and when this happens, what would the USA do to support these groups, whom they supported in their fight against the IS?

Boomers need to understand that Assad is Syria's legitimate government. Syria is a sovereign state and is not bound by western laws. Boomers have to accept that the Syrian government is the legitimate authority within Syria's sovereign boundaries.

Right on  man. Cool    This fucking US hypocrisy is driving me nuts.  We have a shitpot of our war criminals to ship off to the Hague first.  Here's a list.   The world would be a much saner, logical, and safer place if we'd just ship 'em all off, preferably in the cargo bin.  <- They're all to unworthy of a flight in coach.And... did you notice, Eric didn't specify, what exactly would replace Assad.  Rags knows it would be a resurgent ISIS or some other Jihadis. Big Grin

US out of Syria! US out of Africa! US out of Iraq! US out of Afghanistan after 17 years afterblowing money and bodies everywhere. However, not all in this rogues gallery are Boomers. Rather it's a list of who's who in an evil witches/warlock coven of unmitigated evil.
(04-06-2018, 05:05 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: [ -> ]US out of Syria! US out of Africa! US out of Iraq! US out of Afghanistan after 17 years afterblowing money and bodies everywhere. However, not all in this rogues gallery are Boomers. Rather it's a list of who's who in an evil witches/warlock coven of unmitigated evil.

Amen! Also South Korea, Japan and Europe, the war has been over for a long time.
(04-06-2018, 05:05 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-05-2018, 08:58 PM)Cynic Hero Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-23-2017, 02:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Assad is just as bad as the Islamic State (Daesh, ISIS, ISIL), and much more deadly. Assad has killed hundreds of thousands in Syria and forced millions out of his destroyed country. Now that his fellow war criminal Putin came and propped him up with more horrific crimes, Assad is still in power, but he does not yet control the portions of Syria liberated from the IS by the Kurds and native Syrians who are from or near the territories which the IS controlled. The Kurds may continue the rebellion against Assad if he comes in and bombs and destroys them as he has the rest of his country. If and when this happens, what would the USA do to support these groups, whom they supported in their fight against the IS?

Boomers need to understand that Assad is Syria's legitimate government. Syria is a sovereign state and is not bound by western laws. Boomers have to accept that the Syrian government is the legitimate authority within Syria's sovereign boundaries.

Right on  man. Cool    This fucking US hypocrisy is driving me nuts.  We have a shitpot of our war criminals to ship off to the Hague first.  Here's a list.   The world would be a much saner, logical, and safer place if we'd just ship 'em all off, preferably in the cargo bin.  <- They're all to unworthy of a flight in coach.And... did you notice, Eric didn't specify, what exactly would replace Assad.  Rags knows it would be a resurgent ISIS or some other Jihadis. Big Grin

US out of Syria! US out of Africa! US out of Iraq! US out of Afghanistan after 17 years afterblowing money and bodies everywhere. However, not all in this rogues gallery are Boomers. Rather it's a list of who's who in an evil witches/warlock coven of unmitigated evil.

I'd like to see an international coalition go in and replace Assad with (what everybody knows but for some reason keeps denying) the Free Syrians, and help them set up a democracy. The Assad government has no legitimacy whatsoever. I agree the US should not invade on its own, but preferably with other nations with UN sanction and after negotiations with Russia so that their interests are protected. International order in the real sense is what is needed; nations going it alone, either pulling in their horns shouting "America First," or going it alone in imperialist ventures, is something that needs to be ditched. And I agree the war criminals from the USA should be shipped off; I haven't looked, but I think I know who's on the list. Fat chance of it happening though, so it's best to focus on remaking the future. It will take a while. But I certainly agree about the war criminals.

But we can't lump American leaders and bureaucrats all together and call it American foreign policy. It's the Bush babies who are primarily (if not totally) responsible for the crimes. It's up to Americans to vote in leaders who properly represent us, not just to say America is inherently evil and should do nothing.

Under Trump though, there's probably no chance of such an international coalition acting to free Syria from the monster. Absent that, we'll have to tolerate what Russia, Iran and Turkey decide to do. The vaccuum will be filled one way or another.

The Kurds are our allies, and we depended on them to defeat the IS. Now they are being attacked by the Turkey tyrant. I think we owe them something.
(04-07-2018, 12:23 PM)Mikebert Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-06-2018, 05:05 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: [ -> ]US out of Syria! US out of Africa! US out of Iraq! US out of Afghanistan after 17 years afterblowing money and bodies everywhere. However, not all in this rogues gallery are Boomers. Rather it's a list of who's who in an evil witches/warlock coven of unmitigated evil.

Amen! Also South Korea, Japan and Europe, the war has been over for a long time.

Korea is a strange situation. Most in the USA would still think that North Korea is a threat to invade the South, so our troops need to be there. But North Korea also thinks the USA might invade or bomb and overthrow the regime and replace them with a South Korea government. Meanwhile the South Koreans want to negotiate an end to the war in Korea that has never ended. The USA should give up the idea of invading North Korea to change the regime; that's not our business. We just have to be sure that the North will not invade the South, and the South is ready to accept that this might not happen if peace is negotiated.
(04-07-2018, 12:23 PM)Mikebert Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-06-2018, 05:05 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: [ -> ]US out of Syria! US out of Africa! US out of Iraq! US out of Afghanistan after 17 years afterblowing money and bodies everywhere. However, not all in this rogues gallery are Boomers. Rather it's a list of who's who in an evil witches/warlock coven of unmitigated evil.

Amen! Also South Korea, Japan and Europe, the war has been over for a long time.

My only issue is chaos, which seems to be triggering authoritarian responses everywhere.  We created a lot of the chaos, so staying engaged is not a solution to that problem.  On the other hand, leaving a vacuum will guarantee that chaos will get worse.  We broke it and have no idea how to fix it, if fixing it is even possible.  In the mean time, Assad continues to murder his own people wholesale and every Muslim faction has a military wing that seems to be at war with every other faction.  Africa is not better, and the refugee problem is now triggering even authoritarian responses outside those regions.

It's a mess, and a dangerous one.  If we had anyone else at the helm than Trump, disengaging might be viable.  Trump is such a wildcard that any decision is a bad one.
(04-07-2018, 12:50 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-07-2018, 12:23 PM)Mikebert Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-06-2018, 05:05 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: [ -> ]US out of Syria! US out of Africa! US out of Iraq! US out of Afghanistan after 17 years afterblowing money and bodies everywhere. However, not all in this rogues gallery are Boomers. Rather it's a list of who's who in an evil witches/warlock coven of unmitigated evil.

Amen! Also South Korea, Japan and Europe, the war has been over for a long time.

Korea is a strange situation. Most in the USA would still think that North Korea is a threat to invade the South, so our troops need to be there. But North Korea also thinks the USA might invade or bomb and overthrow the regime and replace them with a South Korea government. Meanwhile the South Koreans want to negotiate an end to the war in Korea that has never ended. The USA should give up the idea of invading North Korea to change the regime; that's not our business. We just have to be sure that the North will not invade the South, and the South is ready to accept that this might not happen if peace is negotiated.

We have Trump and Trump wants a splashy deal with the PDRK.  Nothing good will come of this, regardless.