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U.S. Capitol insurrection was a ‘hoax,’ Michigan Senate leader says in video

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/20...video.html

The Kool-Aid keeps on delivering.

(02-12-2021, 11:14 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]The Kool-Aid keeps on delivering.

'Hoax' and its brother 'fake news' are two of the go to red ways of dismissing the facts.  It seems they could be flawed if they become associated with lying.  Trump made a lot of ground telling lies.  Obama supposedly was not born in the US.  Mexico did not pay for the wall.  His attempts to advocate law and order were an attempt to not listen to the people, to suppress the anti systematic racism vote.  Whenever his lies took the front stage he would yell 'hoax' or 'fake news' to cover himself.

It seems claiming voter fraud without evidence is another example.  Leaving his violent supporters trying to justify their actions with an obviously false lie will not get him another round of supporters.

Oh, it isn't over.  This recent collision seems to be the extreme end of the southern strategy.  The establishment gets votes by attracting the racists.  The racists got people in power who would push their preferred agenda.  In the extreme, the racists exposed their most violent people in a vain attempt to delay the certification somewhat.  They do not have the numbers to face down the government, but it would be expensive to keep deploying these security forces enough to force the racists to back down out of prudence.  At least they won't have friends in high places to provide them cover.

(02-12-2021, 11:36 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-12-2021, 11:14 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]The Kool-Aid keeps on delivering.

'Hoax' and its brother 'fake news' are two of the go to red ways of dismissing the facts.  It seems they could be flawed if they become associated with lying.  Trump made a lot of ground telling lies.  Obama supposedly was not born in the US.  Mexico did not pay for the wall.  His attempts to advocate law and order were an attempt to not listen to the people, to suppress the anti systematic racism vote.  Whenever his lies took the front stage he would yell 'hoax' or 'fake news' to cover himself.

It seems claiming voter fraud without evidence is another example.  Leaving his violent supporters trying to justify their actions with an obviously false lie will not get him another round of supporters.

Oh, it isn't over.  This recent collision seems to be the extreme end of the southern strategy.  The establishment gets votes by attracting the racists.  The racists got people in power who would push their preferred agenda.  In the extreme, the racists exposed their most violent people in a vain attempt to delay the certification somewhat.  They do not have the numbers to face down the government, but it would be expensive to keep deploying these security forces enough to force the racists to back down out of prudence.  At least they won't have friends in high places to provide them cover.

Two points:

• Challenging the existence of objective fact is right out of the Fascist playbook.  If nothing is objectively true, then "facts" can be manufactured as needed.
  
• Having a large percentage of the population in the no-fact universe, as the Trumpists certainly are, may preclude an end to strife.  
  

Those who did the insurrection wanted (and still want) to preserve the "traditional American way of life." Classic Xer is of the same mold. According to PBS reports, they still have a lock on the Republican Party in swing states as well as red ones, and 90% of Republicans oppose conviction of Trump. The Republican Party (no longer so "grand") seems to have become a violent, lawless, fascist party dedicated to a cult of personality surrounding the dear leader.

What does the "traditional American way of life" mean? I suppose, keeping it white and christian, stopping "socialism," maintaining self-reliance, low taxes and low regulations, destroying the environment and the climate, keeping all their guns, allowing shoddy products and poor working conditions by companies and businessmen, encouraging police to be rough, and blaming all problems on non-whites, young single women, LGBTQ people, immigrants, and dependency on government. They see Trump as the agent to keep America traditional, and they find him very entertaining as he screams about protesters having tomatoes thrown at them and taken out on stretchers, about themselves marching to the Capitol to fight like hell, and all about how everyone mistreats and is unfair to himself, their dear leader who is their voice.

Does anyone get the feeling that the Uniparty has been bought off by the elites?

(02-12-2021, 11:52 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]Two points:

• Challenging the existence of objective fact is right out of the Fascist playbook.  If nothing is objectively true, then "facts" can be manufactured as needed.
  
• Having a large percentage of the population in the no-fact universe, as the Trumpists certainly are, may preclude an end to strife.  
  

Both are problematic, but could be bypassed if Trump keeps throwing his people under the bus, and Biden manages to put a big dent in the crisis problems.

(02-12-2021, 08:02 PM)random3 Wrote: [ -> ]Does anyone get the feeling that the Uniparty has been bought off by the elites?

I got the feeling that the Republicans had bought off the elites long since, since the gilded age in fact. The tax cut for the elites was just confirmation. During the unraveling it was common wisdom that it was better to chase money than chase votes. This is less obviously true now that the Democrats are trying to win votes by solving problems and projecting the Republicans as opposing solving problems. If the crisis problems are COVID, the economy, racism, red violence and global warming, the Democrats are the ones attacking problems and the GOP has placed itself on the wrong side of all five issues. Good move in a crisis, when the problems are solved, to be in favor of solving problems. The opposite worked well enough in the unraveling.

I don't get the impression that Biden will let anything be watered down, and I don't see him changing that for a few bribes. Even the Republicans are having a bit of trouble with big corporate donors not wanting to associate themselves with a poisoned brand.

One trend I have heard a few vibes of is big businesses wanting to win a market share of new green businesses. If the government makes sure charging stations are coming, the electric cars will be built.

Wow.

Americans either scream tyranny is wonderful because the US has always been a police state or think that the US has the most freedom in the world, but what if the USA used to have freedom and lost it?

If Americans hate freedom then why did Americans fight the British?

If the US was always a police state then why did the founding fathers support free speech, protesting, religious freedom, gun rights, the right to silence, and property rights while opposing warrantless searches, civil forfeiture, torture, and extrajudicial assassinations?

Even if the US never had freedom, does that mean liberty is bad?

Did the US have curfews, NSA wiretapping, checkpoints, forfeiture, the end to the right to silence, free speech bans, torture, kill lists, no fly lists, searches without warrants, private prisons, mandatory minimums, 3 strikes laws, DNA databases, CISPA, SOPA, NDAA, IMBRA, FBAR, FATCA, TSA groping, secret FISA courts, redlight cameras, license plate readers, and Jade Helm in 1980?

Did Americans have gun bans, business licenses, Social Security numbers, sales, income, or property taxes in 1890?

Were drugs, alcohol, smoking, gambling, and prostitution illegal in 1880?

Was smoking illegal in 1970?

Americans believe their beloved government overlords are holy gods.

Americans scream schools, roads, and parks could never possibly exist without income taxes.

Americans swear that the government invented telephones and airplanes. Americans insist that their shoes come from government shoe factories.

Did everyone have passports in 1776?

Do you forget how to drive when your driver license expires?

Do Americans think Americans just stood around waiting for FEMA to show up after the San Francisco earthquake in 1906?

Do Americans think that airlines had a vested interest in crashing their own planes before the FAA was established? Do planes still crash now?

Has FDA gotten rid of dangerous drugs?

Could businesses start before SBA existed?

Did Americans just starve to death when there were no food stamps?

SEC regulates stockbrokers, but markets still crash.

EPA regulates the environment, but the EPA pollutes.

https://dailycaller.com/2015/09/15/what-...mas-river/

The USSR was a Socialist utopia, but the Soviet Union was polluted.

https://www.gerdludwig.com/stories/sovie...al-legacy/

Can't the free market run railroads?

Can't the free market run delivery companies?

Americans need to be fanatic about freedom now. Make every conservation about liberty. Make songs, art, and films about freedom.

Tell soldiers and the Gestapo that they are sell-outs and puppets for the elites and traitors against the 99%.

Americans are so enslaved today that after they are groped by TSA and see checkpoints and watch reports about NSA wiretapping that Americans will still insist that anyone who thinks that the US is a police state is a nutjob.

Some patriots are so discouraged about freedom that they will say they have given up warning Americans about tyranny after 35 years, but Americans should NEVER surrender.

Americans do not understand that freedom lost will never be restored.

Outlawing straws would have been unthinkable in 1990, but now straws will never be legal again.

Wake up.

(02-12-2021, 08:30 PM)random3 Wrote: [ -> ]Outlawing straws would have been unthinkable in 1990, but now straws will never be legal again.

This being one line made me wonder a bit. I had a brain tumor a while back, and one of the areas effected was swallowing, so the doctors advised that a start using straws. I found out that the key word missing in Random's presentation was 'plastic'. Plastic straws often are not recycled, and are too small to be worth recycling in many case. As a result there are sometime found in the wild killing beasties.

Thus, many organizations such as restaurant chains, airlines and governments are just shutting down plastic straws. Paper ones are good enough and biodegradable. Why not? I made a mental note to purchase paper straws in the future.

So this is a case of those wanting to do the responsible thing being responsible, and those that want to politicize everything doing so.

Americans are such pussified snowflakes now that they want the Gestapo to hold their hand when they pee-pee.

Americans used to support freedom, but they have now morphed into Nazis and Communists. Americans will easily go to the gulags because Fascists think the police state only affects Commies and Communists believe tyranny targets Nazis.

Conservatives tend to support small government, be moral, go to church, be responsible, be independent, and oppose killing unborn children. Conservatives generally dislike alcohol, drugs, premarital sex, and minorities.

Liberals often favor science and Socialism and are impulsive. Leftists are more likely to support welfare, drinking, drug use, homosexuality, and open borders.

Since Americans tolerate debt, wars, nanny state laws, Obamacare, food stamps, regulations, offshoring, homosexuality, increasing taxes, illegal immigrants, security cameras, license plate readers, checkpoints, redlight cameras, speed cameras, FBI facial and voice recognition, curfews, gun bans, searches without warrants, mandatory minimums, DNA databases, CISPA, SOPA, NDAA, IMBRA, private prison quotas, no knock raids, take down notices, no fly lists, terror watch lists, Constitution free zones, stop and frisk, 3 strikes laws, kill switches, National Security Letters, kill lists, FBAR, FATCA, Operation Chokepoint, civil forfeiture, CIA torture, NDAA indefinite detention, secret FISA courts, FEMA camps, laws requiring passports for domestic travel, IRS laws denying passports for tax debts, gun and ammo stockpiles, laws outlawing protesting, police militarization, NSA wiretapping, the end to the right to silence, free speech bans, private prisons, FOSTA, TSA groping, and Jade Helm then what is to stop the elites from sending the 99% to the concentration camps?

The US has crossed every line.

Life has become unbearable. Who wants to live in a prison? Hard work is punished with taxes and regulations, jobs have been offshored, illegal immigrants are flooding the country, and laziness is rewarded with welfare.

Wake up.

(02-12-2021, 09:34 PM)random3 Wrote: [ -> ]Americans are such pussified snowflakes now that they want the Gestapo to hold their hand when they pee-pee.

Early in Trump’s term I had a tumor in the part of the brain that controlled balance.  I had a big problem walking without hanging on to objects nearby.  At the same time I had trouble urinating into the small containers that could be used in a bed.  Thus, I wanted to travel the 10 or so feet to the bathroom which was part of every hospital room.

I can say that even then I didn’t want any racist violent thugs anywhere near my penis.  Your quote above is an obvious lie.  In lying to yourself, you are trying to get worked up about nothing.

That is not to say America doesn’t have racist violent thugs.  They are just more like the brownshirts than the Gestapo.  They are private political and racist organizations not yet part of the official state.  They include the Neo Nazi, the KKK, the Proud Boys the bad cops, the Wolverine Watchmen, a few other so called militias and other red violent organizations.

Turnings turn.  In the unravelling, things went towards small government and not solving problems.  In the crisis, the urge is to solve problems for the common good.  Not everyone is going to be thrilled by the change.  Rural people do not see problems as soon as the urban, and people are spread out enough that it is effective to be ready to handle stuff by yourself.  There are rational reasons why folks would prefer one turning over the other.

But if you don’t solve problems for long enough, the urge to solve them once and for all comes to the fore.

Don’t take precautions against the bug.  Let bad cops kill minorities.  Do big damage to the environment.  We haven’t ever taken precautions before.  Why now?

Now recently whenever anyone wants to solve a problem, whenever anyone thinks everyone should show shared responsibility for the common good, you will complain about a perceived loss of liberty.  This is the turnings turning.  People used to the status quo will want it holding against real problems great and small.  Others will think they have waited long enough.

I can’t stop you from complaining.  I can’t force you to acknowledge the problems being addressed.  If you don’t highlight the problem, you are nigh on lying.  You will mischaracterize the problem to support your policy of inaction.

Here it is almost like spamming.  Whenever you note someone trying to solve another problem you open a new thread to complain about it.  In a crisis, that is a lot of threads.  Could you at least create one thread about people trying to solve problems?  You can insist that problems should be eternal there and leave room on the front page for other topics.

Soon Americans will be sent to gulags in Alaska to build dams by hand.

One of the reasons the US wanted to invade Iraq was because Saddam was said to have the wives of dissidents raped and then sending the videos to the husbands. Now the USA will start doing this to Americans.

The elites clearly want a civil war.

Why else would the ruling class close down the country, close the borders, and cancel the elections?

Americans have no options now.

You either fight or die.

The globalists have already laid out their plans.

This year stocks will crash, guns will be banned, there will be lockdowns, mandatory masks, mandatory vaccines, and cash will be banned.

(02-13-2021, 07:18 AM)random3 Wrote: [ -> ]Soon Americans will be sent to gulags in Alaska to build dams by hand.

Source?

(02-13-2021, 07:18 AM)random3 Wrote: [ -> ]One of the reasons the US wanted to invade Iraq was because Saddam was said to have the wives of dissidents raped and then sending the videos to the husbands. Now the USA will start doing this to Americans.

Source?

(02-13-2021, 07:18 AM)random3 Wrote: [ -> ]The elites clearly want a civil war.

The elites would rather exploit the workers than see a civil war in which the means of production will be an obvious target.

(02-13-2021, 07:18 AM)random3 Wrote: [ -> ]Why else would the ruling class close down the country, close the borders, and cancel the elections?

It was Trump who closed down the borders and tried to overthrow an election.  The Democrats are in charge now.  Trump did it out of xenophobia and greed for power.  The emphasis would be on the word 'tried'.

(02-13-2021, 07:18 AM)random3 Wrote: [ -> ]Americans have no options now.

I am chugging along fine.

(02-13-2021, 07:18 AM)random3 Wrote: [ -> ]You either fight or die.

I am too old to fight, see no need to, and death is progressing closer at the rate it always has.

(02-13-2021, 07:18 AM)random3 Wrote: [ -> ]The globalists have already laid out their plans.

How would you know?  I'm sure you are not on their list of insiders.  Source?

(02-13-2021, 07:18 AM)random3 Wrote: [ -> ]This year stocks will crash, guns will be banned, there will be lockdowns, mandatory masks, mandatory vaccines, and cash will be banned.

I don't doubt the sensible precautions regarding COVID.  The red have murdered enough people with their reluctance to take precautions.  I seriously doubt the gun and cash bans.  Source?  I am not that much into predicting the stock market.  Source?

You ought to try the Xenakis site.  They are all crazy into predicting collapses and wars.  You would fit right in.

Are Republicans and libertarians a hoax? Certainly, trolls.

random3 Wrote:
"This year stocks will crash, guns will be banned, there will be lockdowns, mandatory masks, mandatory vaccines, and cash will be banned."

Oh, promises, promises!!!

Soon Americans will be sent to gulags in Alaska to build dams by hand.

https://allthatsinteresting.com/soviet-gulag-photos

One of the reasons the US wanted to invade Iraq was because Saddam was said to have the wives of dissidents raped and then sending the videos to the husbands. Now the USA will start doing this to Americans.

https://www.foxnews.com/story/iraqi-wome...-by-saddam

The elites clearly want a civil war.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...r-BB1bBu34

Why else would the ruling class close down the country, close the borders, and cancel the elections?

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/202...uth-africa

Americans have no options now.

You either fight or die.

The globalists have already laid out their plans.

This year stocks will crash, guns will be banned, there will be lockdowns, mandatory masks, mandatory vaccines, and cash will be banned.

(02-13-2021, 09:13 PM)random3 Wrote: [ -> ]Soon Americans will be sent to gulags in Alaska to build dams by hand.

https://allthatsinteresting.com/soviet-gulag-photos

The link is to Soviet era policy, not US.

(02-13-2021, 09:13 PM)random3 Wrote: [ -> ]One of the reasons the US wanted to invade Iraq was because Saddam was said to have the wives of dissidents raped and then sending the videos to the husbands. Now the USA will start doing this to Americans.

https://www.foxnews.com/story/iraqi-wome...-by-saddam[/quote]

The link is to Saddam's policy, not US.

(02-13-2021, 09:13 PM)random3 Wrote: [ -> ]The elites clearly want a civil war.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...r-BB1bBu34

The international community wants to commit to solving COVID and Global Warming, not civil war.

(02-13-2021, 09:13 PM)random3 Wrote: [ -> ]Why else would the ruling class close down the country, close the borders, and cancel the elections?

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/202...uth-africa
[/quote]

Biden wishes restrictions to control COVID, not to cancel elections.

Thus you batted zero on answering basic questions. Your links do not provide the least evidence of what you claim. This only confirms you like to lie to yourself to work yourself up, you have no concern for real solutions to problems.

Americans say that history never repeats.

Traitors and bootlickers for the globalists think that global warming is real, the flu can only stopped by killing the economy and trashing the Bill of Rights, closing the border, having mandatory testing, vaccines, and masks, and the elites oppose civil wars by ending elections and banning protesting.