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(09-30-2016, 10:01 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-29-2016, 11:00 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]Well after many many many years I have finally snapped and told my mother how i really feel after she called me a bitch for just calmly telling her to stop stressing over a tiny thing. She does this all the time and stresses me out. She does it to control me. Yes she plays mind games. I have finally told her how i feel and it felt good to get that off my chest. However i had to do the full thing through fb as she does not listen, explodes, name calls and dismisses me. Here is my full message.

"Apparently according to my mother i am a "b*tch" because I calmly told her to calm down and i will wash my socks tomorrow as she was not happy that i went outside with my socks on. So what! Mum, if we are to live under the same roof I have to tell you this right now. I do not need your freaking out over the slightest thing then not talking to me for several days while you bang and slam things. I will not walk around egg shells with you. I do need you to also stop calling me names. It is abusive and gone on too long. Address me as an adult should please and stop freaking out over the slightest things. They are socks. I can wash them if you do not want to. This has to end. I have seen other mother/daughter relationships and how great they get along and i wish we had that. I will not be controlled through your temper/stress and name calling any longer. And do not call it rubbish because that is how I feel and have felt for many years. If you consider it rubbish you do not care about how i feel. It just pushes us away further and further deteriorates ties. if you ignore me for this you are not winning anything. Doing so is just avoiding, hurting our relationship further and is childish tbh. I am over it."

The silence kills and so it felt great to finally have the spine to stand up to her as an ill relationship is so toxic and crushing. I am over it guys. I have lived with this and grown up with it my whole life and her menopause has just made things worse. After many years i stood up to her and now we shall see what happens next. She cannot throw me out as i stay to feed us both. She cannot survive without my help.

Your mother needs help, and I don't mean domestic help.  I've seen other tales of her irresponsibility. To enjoy adult freedom one must accept some adult responsibility for behavior and finances. Does she have a chemical problem?

Few people can fully satisfy the dreams of their parents. All that one can legitimately expect of offspring is honorable lives.

I have known that since I was a teenager. She is reckless, has a violent temper and when she does not get her own way entirely she throws a fit in order to control. She has always been that way. As you can see it is over the simplest things. I am apparently not allowed to walk around outside in socks. I just simply told her if you do not want them in the wash leave them. I will clean them tomorrow. No big deal. She just kept bitching and i told her calm down. That was when she said i wish you would stop being a bitch. I told her i wish you would stop freaking out over the slightest things and controlling every aspect of my life. This is the price I pay to stay under her roof to feed her as she cannot support herself. FML. Regarding trying to satisfy her dream I do try and i wonder why i bother sometimes. I never seem to make her happy and the choke-hold continues. It is like walking round eggshells to make her happy and proud of me that I am achieving what she wanted to do (she wanted to be an artist) as well as my own dream too. I do not know if she has a chemical problem. It is a mission to get her to the doctors in the first place. She is even more stubborn than Eric. Her way or the highway and her way is set in stone. To be honest she scares me. It took a lot of courage for me to finally stand up to her as i usually just do as I am told. I went into my room afterwards and decided to take up meditation. She will not infect me anymore.
(09-30-2016, 07:16 AM)Odin Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-29-2016, 11:00 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]Well after many many many years I have finally snapped and told my mother how i really feel after she called me a bitch for just calmly telling her to stop stressing over a tiny thing. She does this all the time and stresses me out. She does it to control me. Yes she plays mind games. I have finally told her how i feel and it felt good to get that off my chest. However i had to do the full thing through fb as she does not listen, explodes, name calls and dismisses me. Here is my full message.

"Apparently according to my mother i am a "b*tch" because I calmly told her to calm down and i will wash my socks tomorrow as she was not happy that i went outside with my socks on. So what! Mum, if we are to live under the same roof I have to tell you this right now. I do not need your freaking out over the slightest thing then not talking to me for several days while you bang and slam things. I will not walk around egg shells with you. I do need you to also stop calling me names. It is abusive and gone on too long. Address me as an adult should please and stop freaking out over the slightest things. They are socks. I can wash them if you do not want to. This has to end. I have seen other mother/daughter relationships and how great they get along and i wish we had that. I will not be controlled through your temper/stress and name calling any longer. And do not call it rubbish because that is how I feel and have felt for many years. If you consider it rubbish you do not care about how i feel. It just pushes us away further and further deteriorates ties. if you ignore me for this you are not winning anything. Doing so is just avoiding, hurting our relationship further and is childish tbh. I am over it."

The silence kills and so it felt great to finally have the spine to stand up to her as an ill relationship is so toxic and crushing. I am over it guys. I have lived with this and grown up with it my whole life and her menopause has just made things worse. After many years i stood up to her and now we shall see what happens next. She cannot throw me out as i stay to feed us both. She cannot survive without my help.

Your mom REALLY needs mental help.
When I was a teenager my friends (who knew my mother) and i made a list of reasons why she should be sent to get some help. This list was going by what my mother does but she is unwilling to face it and legitimizes why she is absolutely right. I sometimes wonder if she is a bit narcissistic or just simply is a controlling person. She found the list and grounded me for two weeks. This is why I do not like being controlled against my will. I have lived it my entire life. Every part of my life being controlled. Want to go next door? No. One occasion it was for two hours and two hours exactly. Want to ride a bike? No and no till you are 21. Want to go to a party? No. Do not do this, that and you better come home when i say so even at the age of 25 she was still doing this. I turned my cell phone off. When i got home she grabbed my arm and pulled me sharply into the house (i was age 25 and had just gone to my mates place for a visit and had a couple of drinks and watched a horror movie with them). She was fuming (even though i kept touch with her and said i will be home by a certain time. She was fuming because i did not come home when it suited her. She did not speak to me for a week. I was grounded one time for being two minutes late. I am not over exaggerating btw. I do not understand what her problem is but she has a violent temper, is depressed, always attacking people around her in a very negative way when they do not live up to her expectations and she is a controller. I feel she is starting to influence me too and i continue to try pull away from that mindset. I acknowledge it is a severe problem and i have gone to classes to seek help for myself due to living in that toxic environment to gain another perspective and i now meditate and it greatly helps. She does not see her problems and i wonder why.
I often wonder if sometimes I am playing the adult and my mother the child. To some degree we are. I have learned earlier on what an adult should be like by watching my mothers many mistakes. I aim not to be like that.
(09-30-2016, 04:56 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2016, 03:34 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2016, 07:16 AM)Odin Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-29-2016, 11:00 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]Well after many many many years I have finally snapped and told my mother how i really feel after she called me a bitch for just calmly telling her to stop stressing over a tiny thing. She does this all the time and stresses me out. She does it to control me. Yes she plays mind games. I have finally told her how i feel and it felt good to get that off my chest. However i had to do the full thing through fb as she does not listen, explodes, name calls and dismisses me. Here is my full message.

"Apparently according to my mother i am a "b*tch" because I calmly told her to calm down and i will wash my socks tomorrow as she was not happy that i went outside with my socks on. So what! Mum, if we are to live under the same roof I have to tell you this right now. I do not need your freaking out over the slightest thing then not talking to me for several days while you bang and slam things. I will not walk around egg shells with you. I do need you to also stop calling me names. It is abusive and gone on too long. Address me as an adult should please and stop freaking out over the slightest things. They are socks. I can wash them if you do not want to. This has to end. I have seen other mother/daughter relationships and how great they get along and i wish we had that. I will not be controlled through your temper/stress and name calling any longer. And do not call it rubbish because that is how I feel and have felt for many years. If you consider it rubbish you do not care about how i feel. It just pushes us away further and further deteriorates ties. if you ignore me for this you are not winning anything. Doing so is just avoiding, hurting our relationship further and is childish tbh. I am over it."

The silence kills and so it felt great to finally have the spine to stand up to her as an ill relationship is so toxic and crushing. I am over it guys. I have lived with this and grown up with it my whole life and her menopause has just made things worse. After many years i stood up to her and now we shall see what happens next. She cannot throw me out as i stay to feed us both. She cannot survive without my help.

Your mom REALLY needs mental help.
When I was a teenager my friends (who knew my mother) and i made a list of reasons why she should be sent to get some help. This list was going by what my mother does but she is unwilling to face it and legitimizes why she is absolutely right. I sometimes wonder if she is a bit narcissistic or just simply is a controlling person. She found the list and grounded me for two weeks. This is why I do not like being controlled against my will. I have lived it my entire life. Every part of my life being controlled. Want to go next door? No. One occasion it was for two hours and two hours exactly. Want to ride a bike? No and no till you are 21. Want to go to a party? No. Do not do this, that and you better come home when i say so even at the age of 25 she was still doing this. I turned my cell phone off. When i got home she grabbed my arm and pulled me sharply into the house (i was age 25 and had just gone to my mates place for a visit and had a couple of drinks and watched a horror movie with them). She was fuming (even though i kept touch with her and said i will be home by a certain time. She was fuming because i did not come home when it suited her. She did not speak to me for a week. I was grounded one time for being two minutes late. I am not over exaggerating btw. I do not understand what her problem is but she has a violent temper, is depressed, always attacking people around her in a very negative way when they do not live up to her expectations and she is a controller. I feel she is starting to influence me too and i continue to try pull away from that mindset. I acknowledge it is a severe problem and i have gone to classes to seek help for myself due to living in that toxic environment to gain another perspective and i now meditate and it greatly helps. She does not see her problems and i wonder why.

What would be the outcome if you left her? Would she end up under the care of the NZ social welfare system? How good or bad would that sort of outcome be? Is there a filial responsibility law that forces you to care for her?
The outcome would be she would have to rely on her credit cards to eat. She cannot afford food as she is in so much debt. She relies on my money for food. She has a caveat on the house so the more she puts on the cards the less chance she has of being able to pay off her debt and they will take her house away from her. No i stay because i care about my mother.
(09-30-2016, 04:56 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2016, 03:34 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2016, 07:16 AM)Odin Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-29-2016, 11:00 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]Well after many many many years I have finally snapped and told my mother how i really feel after she called me a bitch for just calmly telling her to stop stressing over a tiny thing. She does this all the time and stresses me out. She does it to control me. Yes she plays mind games. I have finally told her how i feel and it felt good to get that off my chest. However i had to do the full thing through fb as she does not listen, explodes, name calls and dismisses me. Here is my full message.

"Apparently according to my mother i am a "b*tch" because I calmly told her to calm down and i will wash my socks tomorrow as she was not happy that i went outside with my socks on. So what! Mum, if we are to live under the same roof I have to tell you this right now. I do not need your freaking out over the slightest thing then not talking to me for several days while you bang and slam things. I will not walk around egg shells with you. I do need you to also stop calling me names. It is abusive and gone on too long. Address me as an adult should please and stop freaking out over the slightest things. They are socks. I can wash them if you do not want to. This has to end. I have seen other mother/daughter relationships and how great they get along and i wish we had that. I will not be controlled through your temper/stress and name calling any longer. And do not call it rubbish because that is how I feel and have felt for many years. If you consider it rubbish you do not care about how i feel. It just pushes us away further and further deteriorates ties. if you ignore me for this you are not winning anything. Doing so is just avoiding, hurting our relationship further and is childish tbh. I am over it."

The silence kills and so it felt great to finally have the spine to stand up to her as an ill relationship is so toxic and crushing. I am over it guys. I have lived with this and grown up with it my whole life and her menopause has just made things worse. After many years i stood up to her and now we shall see what happens next. She cannot throw me out as i stay to feed us both. She cannot survive without my help.

Your mom REALLY needs mental help.
When I was a teenager my friends (who knew my mother) and i made a list of reasons why she should be sent to get some help. This list was going by what my mother does but she is unwilling to face it and legitimizes why she is absolutely right. I sometimes wonder if she is a bit narcissistic or just simply is a controlling person. She found the list and grounded me for two weeks. This is why I do not like being controlled against my will. I have lived it my entire life. Every part of my life being controlled. Want to go next door? No. One occasion it was for two hours and two hours exactly. Want to ride a bike? No and no till you are 21. Want to go to a party? No. Do not do this, that and you better come home when i say so even at the age of 25 she was still doing this. I turned my cell phone off. When i got home she grabbed my arm and pulled me sharply into the house (i was age 25 and had just gone to my mates place for a visit and had a couple of drinks and watched a horror movie with them). She was fuming (even though i kept touch with her and said i will be home by a certain time. She was fuming because i did not come home when it suited her. She did not speak to me for a week. I was grounded one time for being two minutes late. I am not over exaggerating btw. I do not understand what her problem is but she has a violent temper, is depressed, always attacking people around her in a very negative way when they do not live up to her expectations and she is a controller. I feel she is starting to influence me too and i continue to try pull away from that mindset. I acknowledge it is a severe problem and i have gone to classes to seek help for myself due to living in that toxic environment to gain another perspective and i now meditate and it greatly helps. She does not see her problems and i wonder why.

What would be the outcome if you left her? Would she end up under the care of the NZ social welfare system? How good or bad would that sort of outcome be? Is there a filial responsibility law that forces you to care for her?
She has to stay in her job to pay the bills but is left with nothing for food. She cannot go on the welfare system because she needs to pay the bills. If not bye bye house.
(09-30-2016, 03:37 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]I often wonder if sometimes I am playing the adult and my mother the child. To some degree we are. I have learned earlier on what an adult should be like by watching my mothers many mistakes. I aim not to be like that.

You need to get her some help, if necessary in a rehab center. She has problems, and she can well mess you up if you keep her around without her making some changes that make her a trustworthy adult. She can keep you from having a satisfying love life. As someone with a perverse mate with the maiden name Asperger that allowed no divorce and no cheating I can see a big gap in your life if you can't get her to drastically change her ways or get out of your life. Asperger's syndrome, I assure you, is tougher to kick than alcohol, drugs, or abusive relationships. As far as that goes, you may need some guidance yourself so that you can get some freedom.

You will have to ask whether the house you live in is a home or is a jail for you. It may be a tough thing to say, but some assets are not worth the costs of keeping them. So a house in which you are a veritable prison in which you take care of a child in adult form may be not as desirable as a tiny apartment for which you pay exorbitant rent. Life is often a question of having freedom and having property that owns you. You may have to make clear that a tiny apartment for which you must pay exorbitant rent can make life far simpler for you than having to take care of her because your mother has never grown up. Know that if you go to a tiny, exorbitantly-priced apartment, that when you do she gets to watch you give away or sell off the treasures that she cherishes... No, not my stamp collection! No, not my awards for ballet! No, not my precious china and artwork! No, not that fine furniture! No, not my music collection!

Tough luck to her. She needs to make some tough, rational choices.

If you have any success in your field, then you will be an attractive mate for someone capable of contributing along with you for paying a mortgage. But note well: your mate will have even more problems with your mother than you have. That mate will not want your mother around. There are in-laws who can get along with each other, but I can't imagine any in-law getting along with her.

I have no idea what her age is, but many people now in their late 50s to their early 70s have chosen to maintain childlike roles long after such is appropriate. Such was monstrously cruel to children (one contributor to many messed-up lives of Generation X in America) and it is now monstrously cruel to adults who are old enough to have real children -- the children whom one expects to develop in the presence of competent adult role models. But if she is a bad parent, she will be little less competent as a grandparent.

Once one has children, one must cease being a child oneself. Sure, one can watch a Disney or Miyazki cartoon epic and imagine yourself a child again for an hour-and-a-half or so... but that is as far as it goes. Children need a genuine adult in a house. As a substitute teacher I have seen the consequences of a child in a family in which there is no semblance of an adult except for age. It is ugly. 

Above all, get the creditors to take away her credit cards. Credit cards are for adults == not for children.

I hope that I have not said too much.
(09-30-2016, 09:41 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2016, 03:37 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]I often wonder if sometimes I am playing the adult and my mother the child. To some degree we are. I have learned earlier on what an adult should be like by watching my mothers many mistakes. I aim not to be like that.

You need to get her some help, if necessary in a rehab center. She has problems, and she can well mess you up if you keep her around without her making some changes that make her a trustworthy adult. She can keep you from having a satisfying love life. As someone with a perverse mate with the maiden name Asperger that allowed no divorce and no cheating I can see a big gap in your life if you can't get her to drastically change her ways or get out of your life. Asperger's syndrome, I assure you, is tougher to kick than alcohol, drugs, or abusive relationships.  As far as that goes, you may need some guidance yourself so that you can get some freedom.

You will have to ask whether the house you live in is a home or is a jail for you. It may be a tough thing to say, but some assets are not worth the costs of keeping them. So a house in which you are a veritable prison in which you take care of a child in adult form may be not as desirable as a tiny apartment for which you pay exorbitant rent. Life is often a question of having freedom and having property that owns you. You may have to make clear that a tiny apartment for which you must pay exorbitant rent can make life far simpler for you than having to take care of her because your mother has never grown up. Know that if you go to a tiny, exorbitantly-priced apartment, that when you do she gets to watch you give away or sell off the treasures that she cherishes... No, not my stamp collection! No, not my awards for ballet! No, not my precious china and artwork! No, not that fine furniture! No, not my music collection!

Tough luck to her. She needs to make some tough, rational choices.  

If you have any success in your field, then you will be an attractive mate for someone capable of contributing along with you for paying a mortgage. But note well: your mate will have even more problems with your mother than you have. That mate will not want your mother around. There are in-laws who can get along with each other, but I can't imagine any in-law getting along with her.

I have no idea what her age is, but many people now in their late 50s to their early 70s have chosen to maintain childlike roles long after such is appropriate. Such was monstrously cruel to children (one contributor to many messed-up lives of Generation X in America) and it is now monstrously cruel to adults who are old enough to have real children -- the children whom one expects to develop in the presence of competent adult role models. But if she is a bad parent, she will be little less competent as a grandparent.

Once one has children, one must cease being a child oneself. Sure, one can watch a Disney or Miyazki cartoon epic and imagine yourself a child again for an hour-and-a-half or so... but that is as far as it goes. Children need a genuine adult in a house. As a substitute teacher I have seen the consequences of a child in a family in which there is no semblance of an adult except for age. It is ugly. 

Above all, get the creditors to take away her credit cards. Credit cards are for adults == not for children.

I hope that I have not said too much.
First of all before I message back with a response let me assure you your concern of "I hope that I have not said too much." Not at all. You have no idea of the depth of her damage she has done to my life. So, you certainly have not said too much. I stick around though because I do care as she is my mother. I would do anything for my mother and a good daughter does not leave her mother behind. I want to fix her error.

"You need to get her some help, if necessary in a rehab center. She has problems, and she can well mess you up if you keep her around without her making some changes that make her a trustworthy adult."

She is VERY stubborn and does not think she needs any help. Nor would she agree o it either. She is a VERY closed minded person where I tend to be the exact opposite. Due to being raised to listen to the whole group (millennial environment) as well as knowing I may not know everything.


"She can keep you from having a satisfying love life." She already has. I am not sure if people around here know but I went to South Africa to be with my boyfriend who i had met online and had to come back because my mother was purely relying on her credit cards to eat. They were constantly ringing her and demanding money. She was growing very ill from worry. She was in that state in the first place because she had already had so much debt on all of her cards from spending what she does not have nor can pay back. So, I left my bf to come home to take care of my mother. I realized it would not work out as I have to stay with her till I am financially able to leave (which would mean I would have to make enough to support us as well as get rid of her debt) so she can eat and I can leave the nest for good at last. Yeah, my bf and i intended to marry. There was no hope of that happening with the fact I cannot leave till this is sorted. I will not have time for marriage or children but it is ok. My future working towards getting into the movie making/animation biz is more important so i am doing something that gives me some happiness as well as help my mother out of her mess.

" Asperger's syndrome, I assure you, is tougher to kick than alcohol, drugs, or abusive relationships.  As far as that goes, you may need some guidance yourself so that you can get some freedom." I do not know if she has that condition. She has many problems such as impulsiveness (spending), irrational at times, temperamental and certainly controlling. She can be quite childish when it comes to her temper and certainly not responsible with money. I am thankful though I learned this at an early age however from watching her and yeah bearing the responsibility of her ill thought out mistakes.

"As far as that goes, you may need some guidance yourself so that you can get some freedom." Oh yes, I have gone to a course called "New Outlook For Women" which helped me out a lot with side effects of living in that environment. I still have trouble particularly my own temper borne from frustration of living with that daily as well as not being able to do some things i would like to. I spend much of my time escaping it through art, school (which is design/art and now animation), work and any chance i have to get away from that dark cloud. Meditation helps too. That course "new outlook" also put me onto the career path i am traveling down too so it really boosted my optimism and helped me find hope and happiness. When you live in that environment you begin to believe the insults thrown at you and begin to think you have no future when the parent says you cannot do that, you know? Always pessimistic. It really destroys you. I feel sorry for her though. What a way to live. She will not accept help though. I would have to hogtie her.


"You will have to ask whether the house you live in is a home or is a jail for you. It may be a tough thing to say, but some assets are not worth the costs of keeping them. So a house in which you are a veritable prison in which you take care of a child in adult form may be not as desirable as a tiny apartment for which you pay exorbitant rent. Life is often a question of having freedom and having property that owns you. You may have to make clear that a tiny apartment for which you must pay exorbitant rent can make life far simpler for you than having to take care of her because your mother has never grown up. Know that if you go to a tiny, exorbitantly-priced apartment, that when you do she gets to watch you give away or sell off the treasures that she cherishes... No, not my stamp collection! No, not my awards for ballet! No, not my precious china and artwork! No, not that fine furniture! No, not my music collection!"Her debt is obviously so sky high (and trust me i suggested this to her) that   the assets that she has will not cover the costs of what debt she has on the cards. She still will not tell me how much she owes
(09-30-2016, 09:41 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2016, 03:37 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]I often wonder if sometimes I am playing the adult and my mother the child. To some degree we are. I have learned earlier on what an adult should be like by watching my mothers many mistakes. I aim not to be like that.

You need to get her some help, if necessary in a rehab center. She has problems, and she can well mess you up if you keep her around without her making some changes that make her a trustworthy adult. She can keep you from having a satisfying love life. As someone with a perverse mate with the maiden name Asperger that allowed no divorce and no cheating I can see a big gap in your life if you can't get her to drastically change her ways or get out of your life. Asperger's syndrome, I assure you, is tougher to kick than alcohol, drugs, or abusive relationships.  As far as that goes, you may need some guidance yourself so that you can get some freedom.

You will have to ask whether the house you live in is a home or is a jail for you. It may be a tough thing to say, but some assets are not worth the costs of keeping them. So a house in which you are a veritable prison in which you take care of a child in adult form may be not as desirable as a tiny apartment for which you pay exorbitant rent. Life is often a question of having freedom and having property that owns you. You may have to make clear that a tiny apartment for which you must pay exorbitant rent can make life far simpler for you than having to take care of her because your mother has never grown up. Know that if you go to a tiny, exorbitantly-priced apartment, that when you do she gets to watch you give away or sell off the treasures that she cherishes... No, not my stamp collection! No, not my awards for ballet! No, not my precious china and artwork! No, not that fine furniture! No, not my music collection!

Tough luck to her. She needs to make some tough, rational choices.  

If you have any success in your field, then you will be an attractive mate for someone capable of contributing along with you for paying a mortgage. But note well: your mate will have even more problems with your mother than you have. That mate will not want your mother around. There are in-laws who can get along with each other, but I can't imagine any in-law getting along with her.

I have no idea what her age is, but many people now in their late 50s to their early 70s have chosen to maintain childlike roles long after such is appropriate. Such was monstrously cruel to children (one contributor to many messed-up lives of Generation X in America) and it is now monstrously cruel to adults who are old enough to have real children -- the children whom one expects to develop in the presence of competent adult role models. But if she is a bad parent, she will be little less competent as a grandparent.

Once one has children, one must cease being a child oneself. Sure, one can watch a Disney or Miyazki cartoon epic and imagine yourself a child again for an hour-and-a-half or so... but that is as far as it goes. Children need a genuine adult in a house. As a substitute teacher I have seen the consequences of a child in a family in which there is no semblance of an adult except for age. It is ugly. 

Above all, get the creditors to take away her credit cards. Credit cards are for adults == not for children.

I hope that I have not said too much.
"If you have any success in your field, then you will be an attractive mate for someone capable of contributing along with you for paying a mortgage. But note well: your mate will have even more problems with your mother than you have. That mate will not want your mother around. There are in-laws who can get along with each other, but I can't imagine any in-law getting along with her." True. My mother did not even want to talk to my bf at the time...till he saved my life one time. Then suddenly she started to warm up to him. He was a patient man luckily...well not luckily because it had to end due to this situation. Oh well.


"I have no idea what her age is, but many people now in their late 50s to their early 70s have chosen to maintain childlike roles long after such is appropriate. Such was monstrously cruel to children (one contributor to many messed-up lives of Generation X in America) and it is now monstrously cruel to adults who are old enough to have real children -- the children whom one expects to develop in the presence of competent adult role models. But if she is a bad parent, she will be little less competent as a grandparent." She was born in 1957. She is 58 going on 59 in December this year. Well, I am not an Xer but it has messed my life up but I will go back to school and specialize in something. It won't keep me down. Our fights tend to make it harder to deal with it as i have to live under the same roof. But there is always art and meditation. As for grandparent I do not plan on having children which is just as well. It is a deterrent for anyone thinking of having me as a gf when they learn of the situation and I have learned to accept that as ok.

"Once one has children, one must cease being a child oneself. Sure, one can watch a Disney or Miyazki cartoon epic and imagine yourself a child again for an hour-and-a-half or so... but that is as far as it goes. Children need a genuine adult in a house. As a substitute teacher I have seen the consequences of a child in a family in which there is no semblance of an adult except for age. It is ugly." I wholeheartedly agree. What do you teach?

  "Above all, get the creditors to take away her credit cards. Credit cards are for adults == not for children." I got her to cut up her cards but they gave her more. I go out with her whenever she goes shopping to inspect if she is using them again as I have paid a few hundred off them myself (and now i apparently am in debt with WINZ even though they heard the situation. So i have to pay them the cash i gave her..) So stupid, I worked for that money. I cashed in my holiday pay so i could stop them ringing her bugging her to pay up.

"I hope that I have not said too much." No it is totally fine. I have grown to accept all of this and shoulder the burden as it is in my character to help others and make wrongs right again.
(09-30-2016, 10:31 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2016, 09:41 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]"If you have any success in your field, then you will be an attractive mate for someone capable of contributing along with you for paying a mortgage. But note well: your mate will have even more problems with your mother than you have. That mate will not want your mother around. There are in-laws who can get along with each other, but I can't imagine any in-law getting along with her."
 True. My mother did not even want to talk to my bf at the time...till he saved my life one time. Then suddenly she started to warm up to him. He was a patient man luckily...well not luckily because it had to end due to this situation. Oh well.

He saved your life but your mother drove her away with her childishness. This is beginning to sound like a dangerous drama. This can end in tragedy.

Quote:
Quote:"I have no idea what her age is, but many people now in their late 50s to their early 70s have chosen to maintain childlike roles long after such is appropriate. Such was monstrously cruel to children (one contributor to many messed-up lives of Generation X in America) and it is now monstrously cruel to adults who are old enough to have real children -- the children whom one expects to develop in the presence of competent adult role models. But if she is a bad parent, she will be little less competent as a grandparent."
She was born in 1957. She is 58 going on 59 in December this year. Well, I am not an Xer but it has messed my life up but I will go back to school and specialize in something. It won't keep me down. Our fights tend to make it harder to deal with it as i have to live under the same roof. But there is always art and meditation. As for grandparent I do not plan on having children which is just as well. It is a deterrent for anyone thinking of having me as a gf when they learn of the situation and I have learned to accept that as ok.


Art and meditation are nice. Companionship is even richer. Romantic love is richer. Someone who truly loves you will be find it easy to deal with your art and meditation. Your mother? I wouldn't want to be involved.


Quote:
Quote:Once one has children, one must cease being a child oneself. Sure, one can watch a Disney or Miyazki cartoon epic and imagine yourself a child again for an hour-and-a-half or so... but that is as far as it goes. Children need a genuine adult in a house. As a substitute teacher I have seen the consequences of a child in a family in which there is no semblance of an adult except for age. It is ugly.
I wholeheartedly agree. What do you teach?


Anything third-grade or higher. In a rural area, specialization is a risky proposition.  I just can't relate easily to very small children. That could be Asperger's syndrome at work; I just don't like loud, sustained sound.



Quote:
Quote:  "Above all, get the creditors to take away her credit cards. Credit cards are for adults == not for children." I got her to cut up her cards but they gave her more. I go out with her whenever she goes shopping to inspect if she is using them again as I have paid a few hundred off them myself (and now i apparently am in debt with WINZ even though they heard the situation. So i have to pay them the cash i gave her..)
So stupid, I worked for that money. I cashed in my holiday pay so i could stop them ringing her bugging her to pay up.


Can you get her to declare bankruptcy? Or would that force you to give up the house?  I am no expert on bankruptcy in America, and I have no idea how bankruptcy works in New Zealand. You may want to get some conservatorship over her. That means no credit cards. That means that you have much more control over her. If she is a big spender and lacks the means to meet her dreams, then you need to emancipate yourself from the financial drain that she has imposed upon you.

Has she ever thought that you might have been able to do something enjoyable with her with that holiday pay if she hadn't stuck you with her bills?

She needs to be taught to be a more pleasant person -- which means that she will have to do some real good for people.  She needs to learn to set some priorities.

Get her to do something -- like raise a garden. Have her get some job, even if it is as a retail clerk, restaurant worker, or domestic servant, so that she can associate her efforts with buying at the least her food.

I have heard of a type in America in my studies of genealogy. The fourth or later daughter of an English aristocratic family has no significant role in life but has been brainwashed to believe certain things about herself -- things that she cannot sustain. She has nothing but her pretentious airs and a few heirlooms. She ends up marrying someone 'ill-born' and her family rejects her. She and her husband emigrate to America, and she takes her airs and some portable heirlooms (the non-cash part of the dowry) with her. One of those airs is ordering people, often her grandchildren, about as if servants.

She dies. The grandchildren have a bonfire into which they cast her aristocratic heirlooms, around which they dance a mock-Indian war-whoop. I have discovered the same story on both sides of my family. This fourth daughter who marries an unwelcome commoner (fourth sons of English aristocrats in a culture of primogeniture generally have little to offer) is a nightmare of a grandmother.

In The Wizard of Oz, that unpleasant woman becomes a "wicked witch". 





Witches are easier to understand than a sociological phenomenon. Like that aristocratic grandmother who has been stranded in a hardscrabble world in which her aristocratic airs and heirlooms are useless and detested, she is not missed. That was largely a nineteenth-century phenomenon in America.  She has her expectations, and others have their own needs. L. Frank Baum found a way to transform a once-commonplace reality in the American middle class into something people could better understand beyond his time. It is a stroke of literary genius that became a great vignette in one of the most beloved movies of all time.


Quote:"I hope that I have not said too much."
No it is totally fine. I have grown to accept all of this and shoulder the burden as it is in my character to help others and make wrongs right again.[/quote]


Maybe she knows subconsciously that if she ever has grandchildren, they will perform a mock-Maori celebration of her demise. "Ding, dong, the witch is dead", indeed!

If she messes up her lungs and heart on cancerweed  or her liver on booze (both expensive habits), then maybe you can outlast her and have a gap that you can fill with a suitable spouse. Sixty (my case) isn't really old (except perhaps for being out of touch with mass culture and with spending habits of young adults) so long as one has as body consistent with rigorous activity. Mass culture and trendy consumerism are overrated.

If she is using her credit cards for food, then she has a problem. She's spending on something. Trying to impress a much-younger boyfriend?

But if one has a cirrhotic liver, sixty is old. If one has emphysema, sixty is old. If one has been a druggie throughout one's life one probably does not reach sixty. I have known alcoholics, and one pattern that I have seen in the  alcoholics that I have known is that they never grow up.
"He saved your life but your mother drove her away with her childishness. This is beginning to sound like a dangerous drama. This can end in tragedy.

Her debt drove him away because i have to sort it out yes. She did not personally drive him away. Her bad spending habits did though.
"Art and meditation are nice. Companionship is even richer. Romantic love is richer. Someone who truly loves you will be find it easy to deal with your art and meditation. Your mother? I wouldn't want to be involved. "

Meh it is ok.
"Can you get her to declare bankruptcy? Or would that force you to give up the house? " The house would be taken away, yes.

"Has she ever thought that you might have been able to do something enjoyable with her with that holiday pay if she hadn't stuck you with her bills?" No, she was just very grateful for the help I gave her.

"Have her get some job" she works full time and even on saturdays. Plus remember she is stubborn. I cannot control her. I also am not a control freak like her. In comparison I am easy going.

"Maybe she knows subconsciously that if she ever has grandchildren, they will perform a mock-Maori celebration of her demise. "Ding, dong, the witch is dead", indeed!" She drives me crazy at times but I would be devastated if my mother died.

"If she messes up her lungs and heart on cancerweed or her liver on booze (both expensive habits), then maybe you can outlast her and have a gap that you can fill with a suitable spouse. Sixty (my case) isn't really old (except perhaps for being out of touch with mass culture and with spending habits of young adults) so long as one has as body consistent with rigorous activity. Mass culture and trendy consumerism are overrated.

If she is using her credit cards for food, then she has a problem. She's spending on something. Trying to impress a much-younger boyfriend?

But if one has a cirrhotic liver, sixty is old. If one has emphysema, sixty is old. If one has been a druggie throughout one's life one probably does not reach sixty. I have known alcoholics, and one pattern that I have seen in the alcoholics that I have known is that they never grow up. "
I locked her out the house and flushed her cigs because i did not want her to die. She drinks in moderation. Again, not looking forward to her demise and not worried about looking for a partner. She has no bf she is spending on things she needs and often does not need. She is not a druggy.
"She needs to be taught to be a more pleasant person -- which means that she will have to do some real good for people.  She needs to learn to set some priorities." hahahaha any ideas? Remember she is stubborn. I have given up tryin to get her to do anything she does not want to. It is a mission to get her to go to the doctor let alone anything else. When i said you are ill and need to go see a doctor. You cannot go without anything when you have a kidney infection. It will eventually put you in a hospital or kill you. She muttered back oh well at least i won't have to go to work. When she grumbles about not feeling well i say to her have some ginger tea or rooibus tea (red bush tea). That will make you feel better. No she says i don't like the taste of it. I say, uh but it makes you feel better. No she says. I imagine children say the same thing. So as it is impossible to get her to even consider drinking what she does not want to it would take something on the level of giving my mother a roofie then dragging her somewhere to do something good for someone or take her to the doctors or anything. Pretty much now i just leave her alone, give her the whatever and go off into my room. Not worth the stress. She is someone who does not learn. She did not even want me going out to be a part of the SVA helping people in all of the earthquake disasters. Said oh i am sure everyone is ok. No they bloody well were not ok.
(09-30-2016, 03:17 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]I have known that since I was a teenager. She is reckless, has a violent temper and when she does not get her own way entirely she throws a fit in order to control. She has always been that way. As you can see it is over the simplest things. I am apparently not allowed to walk around outside in socks. I just simply told her if you do not want them in the wash leave them. I will clean them tomorrow. No big deal. She just kept bitching and i told her calm down. That was when she said i wish you would stop being a bitch. I told her i wish you would stop freaking out over the slightest things and controlling every aspect of my life. This is the price I pay to stay under her roof to feed her as she cannot support herself. FML. Regarding trying to satisfy her dream I do try and i wonder why i bother sometimes. I never seem to make her happy and the choke-hold continues. It is like walking round eggshells to make her happy and proud of me that I am achieving what she wanted to do (she wanted to be an artist) as well as my own dream too. I do not know if she has a chemical problem. It is a mission to get her to the doctors in the first place. She is even more stubborn than Eric. Her way or the highway and her way is set in stone. To be honest she scares me. It took a lot of courage for me to finally stand up to her as i usually just do as I am told. I went into my room afterwards and decided to take up meditation. She will not infect me anymore.

If you are on Reddit, there is a board there called /r/RaisedByNarcissists I think you should subscribe to. Lots of posters there with situations like yours.
(09-30-2016, 05:03 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]The outcome would be she would have to rely on her credit cards to eat. She cannot afford food as she is in so much debt. She relies on my money for food. She has a caveat on the house so the more she puts on the cards the less chance she has of being able to pay off her debt and they will take her house away from her. No i stay because i care about my mother.

You NEED to cut her off, Tara. I think at this point you are just enabling her behavior, she seems like one of those people who will have to hit rock bottom before she gets better. It may seem cruel but it is the only way she is going to change. I know given your personality type that doing that will be very hard for you to do, but you need to.
I was at my sister's wedding this weekend, she's a '76 cohort Xer marrying a '68 cohort Xer. Very pretty small-scale wedding on the shore of Big Cormorant Lake at the groom's uncle's home The only bad part was the mosquitoes!
(10-03-2016, 08:00 AM)Odin Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2016, 05:03 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]The outcome would be she would have to rely on her credit cards to eat. She cannot afford food as she is in so much debt. She relies on my money for food. She has a caveat on the house so the more she puts on the cards the less chance she has of being able to pay off her debt and they will take her house away from her. No i stay because i care about my mother.

You NEED to cut her off, Tara. I think at this point you are just enabling her behavior, she seems like one of those people who will have to hit rock bottom before she gets better. It may seem cruel but it is the only way she is going to change. I know given your personality type that doing that will be very hard for you to do, but you need to.

Take the credit cards. If she is using credit cards for food, then she has been using money on other stuff. Get control of her finances.

Buy her food amd cleaning stuff but nothing else (OK, commuting costs to get to work). Make sure that the food is basic stuff -- the sort typical for people on welfare. Maybe put her on a vegetarian diet, which will be less expensive. I don't know if generic brands are available in New Zealand as they are in America. They are not as reliable in quality as the name-brands; I have gotten some cr@ppy stuff as generic merchandise and not bought the same item again. She needs to live like the pauper that she is for a few months. You may need to cut back on shared indulgences, like premium television. Bored? Get out a board game.

Can one learn new stuff in one's late 50s? Sure. It will be tough for her, but she needs to take some adult responsibilities, like budgeting. But when she does that she will be much more competent, and likely more happy. She apparently has some job, and New Zealand is rich enough that nobody working full time should go hungry. New Zealand does not have the sick economy of America in which owners act like plantation owners and managers act like a Soviet-style nomenklatura.
I just got a book, Loving Someone with Asperger's Syndrome. Anyone who gets hooked on me (I have some virtues -- I am trustworthy with assets, vehicles, and especially the welfare of the helpless) needs to know what to expect. If it took a therapist thirty minutes to get a diagnosis, it won;t take long to find something creepy about me. I might as well expose it quickly.

If getting off drugs and alcohol is tough, getting off Asperger's Syndrome is simply impossible. I have much explaining to do, and now that I know what has me (one does not have Asperger's -- it has you!) in thrall I can explain it well. Expect weird responses to stimuli. I know what to expect of others, and others might as well know what to expect of me. Not having a clue, even if one is otherwise competent, and drawing the wrong conclusions is not dishonesty.

I have something to offer in a relationship. I am 'high-functioning' enough that I might be able to hold onto some job. I could probably be a good stepfather even with my evident limitations. I put a high value on learning, and I have a good work ethic even if I have a spotty work history and have underachieved for my intelligence and education. I do office politics as ineptly as anyone, and I handle depersonalizing stress badly. That is Asperger's. Had I known about it I might have done everything differently. Who knows what I might have done?

But she -- and any children -- need to know what they are getting. Can I love? Probably; love is a virtue, and if one practices any virtue one gets its mark. Will I pose difficulties? Who doesn't? At the least I am not a reckless spender, I am not greedy and materialistic, I can offer a wholesome (if archaic) culture, I know what to judge and what to let slide, and I don't have chemical dependencies. I have shown loyalty to people who have left me in financial and emotional ruin (not their choice -- their circumstances and demises), and I would just as soon show loyalties to people who don't do such.

Bored, broke, and lonely -- it sounds like the title of a bad country music song. Bach is more to my liking.
(10-03-2016, 07:57 AM)Odin Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2016, 03:17 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]I have known that since I was a teenager. She is reckless, has a violent temper and when she does not get her own way entirely she throws a fit in order to control. She has always been that way. As you can see it is over the simplest things. I am apparently not allowed to walk around outside in socks. I just simply told her if you do not want them in the wash leave them. I will clean them tomorrow. No big deal. She just kept bitching and i told her calm down. That was when she said i wish you would stop being a bitch. I told her i wish you would stop freaking out over the slightest things and controlling every aspect of my life. This is the price I pay to stay under her roof to feed her as she cannot support herself. FML. Regarding trying to satisfy her dream I do try and i wonder why i bother sometimes. I never seem to make her happy and the choke-hold continues. It is like walking round eggshells to make her happy and proud of me that I am achieving what she wanted to do (she wanted to be an artist) as well as my own dream too. I do not know if she has a chemical problem. It is a mission to get her to the doctors in the first place. She is even more stubborn than Eric. Her way or the highway and her way is set in stone. To be honest she scares me. It took a lot of courage for me to finally stand up to her as i usually just do as I am told. I went into my room afterwards and decided to take up meditation. She will not infect me anymore.

If you are on Reddit, there is a board there called /r/RaisedByNarcissists I think you should subscribe to. Lots of posters there with situations like yours.
No, not on Reddit but that is interesting. She again has exploded because i did not bring the mail in. Yep so because of that i am lazy. I was actually busy studying and the mail is for her. Sigh.
(10-03-2016, 08:00 AM)Odin Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2016, 05:03 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]The outcome would be she would have to rely on her credit cards to eat. She cannot afford food as she is in so much debt. She relies on my money for food. She has a caveat on the house so the more she puts on the cards the less chance she has of being able to pay off her debt and they will take her house away from her. No i stay because i care about my mother.

You NEED to cut her off, Tara. I think at this point you are just enabling her behavior, she seems like one of those people who will have to hit rock bottom before she gets better. It may seem cruel but it is the only way she is going to change. I know given your personality type that doing that will be very hard for you to do, but you need to.

She will starve and end up homeless if i leave.
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