Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory

(05-30-2020, 02:00 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]Do you and today's left truly represent the arrow of progress these days? You seem to think so. Yes, the arrow of progress is real. I think it's about time         for blue culture to change its ways but I suspect blue culture will continue fucking up like it's been fucking up until it can no longer get away with fucking up or no longer  afford to fuck up.

Equality.  The Republicans are the party of racists and elites.  LBJ and MLK allied, picking up the black vote.  Nixon responded with the Southern Strategy, picking up the racist vote, and ending the progressive era.  Trump became cheerleader for the racists, stoking the violence for his personal benefit.  Recent events are a partial result.

So, yes, today’s left does represent the arrow of progress.  So yes, the conservatives have to resort to the sky is green crazy logic to try to justify themselves.  They are no less evil and no less wrong than conservatives always have been.

Every two or four generations there is a rebellion as those who have been denied equality demand a major step forward.  This is one of those times.  Always before, sometimes through non violence, sometime through other means, this has resulted in a step forward.  

Those who believe in racism will resist.  I am mildly disgusted but not surprised that you have proved yourself one of them.

Back in the old days, when it was the blue boomers out on the streets, there used to be a saying.  Haven't heard it much lately.  Perhaps, this being a crisis, rather than an awakening, we might modify it by adding an [expletive deleted].  Anyway...

"Lead, follow, or get out of the way."

(05-30-2020, 06:58 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-30-2020, 02:00 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]Do you and today's left truly represent the arrow of progress these days? You seem to think so. Yes, the arrow of progress is real. I think it's about time         for blue culture to change its ways but I suspect blue culture will continue fucking up like it's been fucking up until it can no longer get away with fucking up or no longer  afford to fuck up.

Equality.  The Republicans are the party of racists and elites.  LBJ and MLK allied, picking up the black vote.  Nixon responded with the Southern Strategy, picking up the racist vote, and ending the progressive era.  Trump became cheerleader for the racists, stoking the violence for his personal benefit.  Recent events are a partial result.

So, yes, today’s left does represent the arrow of progress.  So yes, the conservatives have to resort to the sky is green crazy logic to try to justify themselves.  They are no less evil and no less wrong than conservatives always have been.

Every two or four generations there is a rebellion as those who have been denied equality demand a major step forward.  This is one of those times.  Always before, sometimes through non violence, sometime through other means, this has resulted in a step forward.  

Those who believe in racism will resist.  I am mildly disgusted but not surprised that you have proved yourself one of them.

Yes, yes, yes. I know that I support the party that people like you and others claim to be the party of elites and racists. Is it true? I'm going to give you a hint, if you and the liberal fools here find yourselves at odds with the libertarian tribe and the conservative tribe and find yourselves at war with each other with no center like the American side is seeing right now in the Twin Cities. What is your chance of survival?

Bob, I don't how you got your privilege. I don't know if you earned it like most Americans these days. I don't know if inherited it like the aristocratic elites with fancy titles of old or if you were granted it like so many liberal fools are granting it/have been granted it these days. So tell me Bob, why does a modern age American party like your part have a need for SUPER DELEGATES these days (a political version of the old electoral college associated with an age of high illiteracy and why does your party still have a need for a BLACK CAUCUS these days and why does your party still cling to Marxism and why does your party often remind me of Catholicism and often seems so similar to the hierarchical orders associated with old Europe. Why is that Bob? Why aren't you able to see what I see so clearly Yes those who are still tied to racism and still tied to the old way of thinking as a pertains to minorities will resist like Nancy Pelocy and the west coast elites. So, what it is going to take for liberal twits like Nancy to learn a harsh lesson that a dumb liberal cunt or dick like her will never forget for many generations? What do we need to do Bob? Shall we stop trucking and stop obeying laws like YOUR FUCK NUTS in Minneapolis. Shall we start gunning them down and taking pictures like they did in the Wild West. Like I said, sliding American values off to the side for the greater good and dealing with a problem ain't going to be much of problem and America ain't going to care if a bunch of blue peacocks call it fascism or racism or whatever term their DNC masters picks and spreads through its media outlets. You're fucked and the only people who don't know they're equally fucked are the idiots posting here. Like I said, I don't really care if Minneapolis and St Paul end up being decimated by weeks of violence. At the end, you pretty much get what you deserve. I've been hearing a lot of preaching from your racist leaders and your race exploiters who really fucked up big time. Like I said, you and ever other blue fool better figure out a way to keep you shit contained to your areas unless you want to see what a bunch of dead liberals look like after they're shot by a bunch of US citizens who have a right to use their weaponry during times like this.

(05-29-2020, 05:48 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]KKK and Nazi fascists keep surfacing in America. Most of them are tiny cults with their own Fuehrers and Imperial Wizards...

I really hate describing the president as a fascist, but he fits too many fascist characteristics.

No you don't. You don't have a problem with calling him a fascist or a racist either. You should use a more common/believable term like asshole instead of the liberal terms that you use. I think most Americans if not all would agree that Trump is an asshole and probably agree that most American men and women are assholes too.

I’m not worried much about violence.  I know you are obsessed with it and like to invoke it without being willing to involve yourself.  I just monitor the spiral of violence, check against reality.  It seems to be going nowhere.

I don’t think of myself as privileged.  I just post a lot on these forums, as do you.

I can agree on super delegates.  The Democratic Party seems to like to load the voting with their establishment.  I would concur it should be removed.  If I haven’t raved on that lately, I am somewhat remiss.

As long as the other party is corrupted by racists, a black caucus seems prudent.  When it is no longer thought necessary, I will celebrate.

We don’t cling to Marxism.  My own thought is that Marx diagnosed the problem correctly, but his followers just became the new elite, controllers of the means of production, more concerned about the party than the people.  This is the Asian flavor of so called socialism, having nothing to do with the European flavor which retains the original meaning of the government working for the people.  I know you keep deluding yourself.  I can only repeat that in the obvious lie I do not recognize myself and do not recognize any other blue people I know.  I should try to clear your delusions, but in your case this seems somewhat futile.  You just repeat your delusions.

Every once in a while, years of inequality results in a demand that we become more equal.  This is a feature, not a bug.  If the racists remain stubborn, the move from non violence to other becomes stronger.  Again, I remain disappointed you are siding with the racists.

Again, in response to your rant childishly speaking of violence, I will point again at the spiral of violence.  Not a worry.

(05-30-2020, 02:22 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-29-2020, 05:48 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-29-2020, 12:03 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-28-2020, 11:17 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-28-2020, 01:01 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]From CNN, Trump is set to announce an executive order against social media companies

Sounds like some social media companies are adding fact checks to Trump's lies, so this is an attempt at using the government to establish political censorship.  He ought to have lots of legal trouble with this one.

Except that large gatherings of any kind are as unsafe as if there were a secret police agency watching and recording everything, and people seem to disappear without a trace...  except that the danger is of a destructive, insidious, and highly-communicable virus... people would be protesting this. I would, even if we had a Stasi, KGB, or Mississippi Sovereignty Commission snooping around.

We need to take this President down in November, and before that we need to gut his authority in every way possible. I think of a slogan that fits this time well:

ABORT FASCISM NOW!

Yes, Donald Trump really is a fascist pig. He made the mistake of trying to purge the GOP before shutting down the Democrats, which is the one thing that he got completely wrong in his attempt to establish a dictatorship.

We already aborted fascism a long time ago. I hope you aren't dumb enough to go for it thinking it's socialism instead. I wouldn't put it passed you at this point.

KKK and Nazi fascists keep surfacing in America. Most of them are tiny cults with their own Fuehrers and Imperial Wizards...

I really hate describing the president as a fascist, but he fits too many fascist characteristics.

Are they out burning down and looting portions of American cities and destroying police precincts these days? I suggest that you pull your head out of your ass and wake up.

Completely irrelevant. Rioters are not exercising any rights. They deserve suppression by law enforcement. 

So what do I see as warning signs of fascism in Donald Trump? Using "/" as the best imitation of a fascist salute (right arm for Mussolini and Hitler; left arm for the Klan) with none for no fascist tendency and four for full-blown:

the 2016 article, whence i draw material for analysis Read it yourself! 

1. Hyper-nationalism //  
2. Militarism //
3. Glorification of violence / (but he has gotten worse since 2016, and I would now put it at ///)
4. Fetishization of youth (he doesn't, and that is the one fascist thing that he could never do)
5. Fetishization of masculinity ////
6. Leadership cult ////
7. Offering a return to a "golden age' since lost ////
8. Identification by opposition (of pariahs) ///
9. Mass mobilization //
10. Hierarchy and a tendency to purge / (he has gotten worse, so I would put it at //) 
11. Theatricality /// 

Aside from not even trying to appeal to youth, he is deep into fascistic tendencies. He is not Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Salazar, Pavelic, or Quisling... 

OK... so how does the late George Herbert Walker Bush fit in? 

1. Hyper-nationalism /  
2. Militarism /
3. Glorification of violence
4. Fetishization of youth (he doesn't)
5. Fetishization of masculinity
6. Leadership cult 
7. Offering a return to a "golden age' since lost /
8. Identification by opposition (of pariahs) /
9. Mass mobilization /
10. Hierarchy and a tendency to purge
11. Theatricality   

Donald Trump is not a conservative. The elder Bush was, cautious enough not to gloat as Commie regimes collapsed in central and Balkan Europe or as the Soviet Union disintegrated. True, Norieqa had to be taken down for threatening Americans and his involvement in drug trafficking...and of course Saddam Hussein the aggression by Saddam Hussein against Kuwait had to be rebuked. 

On militarism... America even at its gentlest has always kept a mailed fist available in the event of someone shaking the world order to the detriment of America and Americans. At that, the elder Bush and Barack Obama are much the same. Any Great Power will show some nationalism. I believe that the elder Bush believed that America was then the best that it had ever been but could improve  incrementally. If there is a Leadership Cult in America it has its basis in Washington and Lincoln... to the extent that FDR considered Lincoln the model of how to lead a country in apocalyptic war. I don;t have any problem with Washington and Lincoln... FDR chose well, don't you think? 

Mobilization has always been possible in America on an ad hoc basis, with Americans seeing fit to turn swords into plowshares as the danger of war abates. Such is part of the transition from 4T to 1T, with disciplined soldiers becoming disciplined  workers in every field from academia to manufacturing. The elder Bush seems rather mild at this. 

Did you see the elder Bush ridicule his political opponents?  Maybe fringe characters like Kluxers, neo-Nazis, and Marxist-Leninists whom everyone despises.  Such people are fair game due to their contempt for democratic norms and solidarity across lines of class, faith, and ethnicity. 

If conservatives are near-opposites of fascists, the diametric opposite of a fascist is a liberal. Now consider the man whom Trump most despises. Obama may have had more appeal to youth, but there is no "Obama Youth League" and never will be.

(05-30-2020, 02:10 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]I think most Americans if not all would agree that Trump is an asshole and probably agree that most American men and women are assholes too.

I assume that you are using your own definition of 'American' which translates to those hypothetical people that supposedly agree with you.

So, most of the hypothetical people who agree with you think they are [expletive deleted]?  I assume you are one as well?

(05-30-2020, 02:48 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I’m not worried much about violence.  I know you are obsessed with it and like to invoke it without being willing to involve yourself.  I just monitor the spiral of violence, check against reality.  It seems to be going nowhere.

I don’t think of myself as privileged.  I just post a lot on these forums, as do you.

I can agree on super delegates.  The Democratic Party seems to like to load the voting with their establishment.  I would concur it should be removed.  If I haven’t raved on that lately, I am somewhat remiss.

As long as the other party is corrupted by racists, a black caucus seems prudent.  When it is no longer thought necessary, I will celebrate.

We don’t cling to Marxism.  My own thought is that Marx diagnosed the problem correctly, but his followers just became the new elite, controllers of the means of production, more concerned about the party than the people.  This is the Asian flavor of so called socialism, having nothing to do with the European flavor which retains the original meaning of the government working for the people.  I know you keep deluding yourself.  I can only repeat that in the obvious lie I do not recognize myself and do not recognize any other blue people I know.  I should try to clear your delusions, but in your case this seems somewhat futile.  You just repeat your delusions.

Every once in a while, years of inequality results in a demand that we become more equal.  This is a feature, not a bug.  If the racists remain stubborn, the move from non violence to other becomes stronger.  Again, I remain disappointed you are siding with the racists.

Again, in response to your rant childishly speaking of violence, I will point again at the spiral of violence.  Not a worry

I've noticed that you and others don't seem to be worried about all the violence that's going on in Minneapolis and St Paul and other blue cities across the nation right now. It's to bad that you are unable to see the spiral I've noticed that you guys aren't talking about the folks who are out looting and destroying other peoples property as we speak either. I'm not worried about it either. I live a lot closer to it than any of you right now. Guys like me get angry about it but don't worry about it and we get angrier when we see a peacock who contributed preaching to us too. 
Unlike you, I'm free to speak about it and point it out to you as a concern directly related to you and your party that is most likely going to have a major impact on you politically. You see, Minneapolis and St Paul are viewed by those who surround them as another world so to speak. Another world that we have no interest in other than sports events and concerts or a high paying job location which are pretty much dead or no longer necessary to drive to as much this year and most likely unnecessary to drive to at all after this year.
You see, there is nothing of relevance that exists in either blue city that couldn't be moved or built by us else where. I have no interest in getting involved with another liberal blunder. I have no interest in paying for them either. You'd think your pretty blue peacocks with the fancy overpriced college degrees would have learned what not to say or do immediately after information is received after watching Ferguson and Baltimore. Oh, that's right, the pretty blue peacocks don't think, feel immune from doing wrong and don't have to learn from their mistakes like everyone else. What's the chances of pretty blue peacock having his/her nose rubbed in a pile of dog shit for fucking up or loosing their home over this. 

I'm glad that you don't feel privileged because you know that you earned what you got and are able to relate to the millions of Republican voters who feel the same way as you. So, what's up with the privilege that the college liberals/peacocks are always talking about these days? Other than them or their parents, who has that kind of privilege? Other than them, who gets off easy these days? Other than them, who has a bunch of strings pulled for them that places them in higher positions like Clinton's kid or Biden's kid. You have a lot to explain to me about them Bob. So, how many of them aren't white these days? How many of them are privileged minorities associated with the Democratic party who do the same thing? How many of them are running cities and sitting on boards of corporations collecting paychecks? Finding out may require the sacrifice of some Republicans which we are quite capable of doing when the time is right.

(05-30-2020, 07:40 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-30-2020, 02:10 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]I think most Americans if not all would agree that Trump is an asshole and probably agree that most American men and women are assholes too.

I assume that you are using your own definition of 'American' which translates to those hypothetical people that supposedly agree with you.

So, most of the hypothetical people who agree with you think they are {expletive deleted]?  I assume you are one as well?

I'm an asshole. I've shown it many times. It takes an asshole to effectively counter an asshole or get rid of an asshole. You're an asshole too. A hit and run and cry fowl asshole but you're still an asshole. You just won't admit it to me or yourself and lack the integrity to accept the consequences for being one.

(05-30-2020, 10:01 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-30-2020, 07:40 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-30-2020, 02:10 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]I think most Americans if not all would agree that Trump is an asshole and probably agree that most American men and women are assholes too.

I assume that you are using your own definition of 'American' which translates to those hypothetical people that supposedly agree with you.

So, most of the hypothetical people who agree with you think they are {expletive deleted]?  I assume you are one as well?

I'm an asshole. I've shown it many times. It takes an asshole to effectively counter an asshole or get rid of an asshole. You're an asshole too. A hit and run and cry fowl asshole but you're still an asshole. You just won't admit it to me or yourself and lack the integrity to accept the consequences for being one.

You do realize that if you assign a description to everyone, that description becomes essentially useless?

What would you know about integrity if you commonly describe those who disagree with you in ways which don't fit in the least?

(05-30-2020, 03:00 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]Paul I see your posts all the time here and on facebook and I don't see anywhere where you hate describing the orange goof a fascist as well as the GOP as fascists or at the very least heading towards fascism. Perhaps in America the terms fascist and commies are so over used, people start to lose the idea of what true fascism and communism is. Or they perhaps use those terms for anything they do not like. I truly hope you guys do not have a fascist leaning party in control, but also do not lie. I see you use that term and often. If you would hate using the term, you wouldn't post it so often.

It's mainly a ploy they use to scare ignorant people into supporting the Democratic party. It's dumb but it seems to work pretty good for them.

(05-30-2020, 10:51 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-30-2020, 03:00 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]Paul I see your posts all the time here and on facebook and I don't see anywhere where you hate describing the orange goof a fascist as well as the GOP as fascists or at the very least heading towards fascism. Perhaps in America the terms fascist and commies are so over used, people start to lose the idea of what true fascism and communism is. Or they perhaps use those terms for anything they do not like. I truly hope you guys do not have a fascist leaning party in control, but also do not lie. I see you use that term and often. If you would hate using the term, you wouldn't post it so often.

It's mainly a ploy they use to scare ignorant  people into supporting the Democratic party. It's dumb but it seems to work pretty good for them.

But it was Donald Trump who proudly said "I love low-information voters". 

With white people, the more educated they are (which is usually a good proxy for being well informed), the more likely they are to disapprove of Donald Trump and say at this point, at the least, that they will vote for his opponent. Among other groups the correlation between support for Donald Trump and either income or formal education is practically nil. 

Donald Trump has done more than anyone else to scare people away from the Republican Party than has any high-level Democratic strategist

(05-30-2020, 10:16 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]You do realize that if you assign a description to everyone, that description becomes essentially useless?  

What would you know about integrity if you commonly describe those who disagree with you in ways which don't fit in the least?

I realize it but do you realize it? I ask because you describe us as racist and associate us with racism all the time. It's pretty much useless with us but that hasn't stopped you and others here from doing it. I assume that it's not useless with the minority voters on your side which is why you and others keep using it as much as you and others do.

Socialism works for the Republicans because it fits and it's now supported by most of the Democrats because the Democrats understand that they can't win without the support of those who either want it/believe in it. Now, socialism may not be your cup of tea but your stuck with the term because the Democratic party is now open as far as socialism these days vs hiding it's association with it like it did for years.

(05-31-2020, 01:38 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-30-2020, 10:16 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]You do realize that if you assign a description to everyone, that description becomes essentially useless?  

What would you know about integrity if you commonly describe those who disagree with you in ways which don't fit in the least?

I realize it but do you realize it? I ask because you describe us as racist and associate us with racism all the time. It's pretty much useless with us but that hasn't stopped you and others here from doing it. I assume that it's not useless with the minority voters on your side which is why you and others keep using it as much as you and others do.

Socialism works for the Republicans because it fits and it's now supported by most of the Democrats because the Democrats understand that they can't win without the support of those who either want it/believe in it. Now, socialism may not be your cup of tea but your stuck with the term because the Democratic party is now open as far as socialism these days vs hiding it's association with it like it did for years.

No. I only apply racism to racists.

Actually, the schtick of calling Democrats Socialist and Republicans fascist has faded somewhat. A few die hard partisans such as yourself, Eric and Pbower are still stuck a few decades back.

(05-31-2020, 01:38 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-30-2020, 10:16 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]You do realize that if you assign a description to everyone, that description becomes essentially useless?  

What would you know about integrity if you commonly describe those who disagree with you in ways which don't fit in the least?

I realize it but do you realize it? I ask because you describe us as racist and associate us with racism all the time. It's pretty much useless with us but that hasn't stopped you and others here from doing it. I assume that it's not useless with the minority voters on your side which is why you and others keep using it as much as you and others do.

You may not be the overt racist who prances around in a Klan robe or in a brown shirt with a swastika armband... but you are out of touch with the reality of racism in America. It still exists, and at times it erupts in unjustifiable brutality by bad cops. 

Quote:Socialism works for the Republicans because it fits and it's now supported by most of the Democrats because the Democrats understand that they can't win without the support of those who either want it/believe in it. Now, socialism may not be your cup of tea but your stuck with the term because the Democratic party is now open as far as socialism these days vs hiding it's association with it like it did for years.

Donald Trump is a big-government right-winger who has found that big government can enforce monopoly prices, mandate compliance with right-wing political memes, and supply opportunity for graft. We need to be careful about what government does. We need benign government more than we need big government. 

It may be ironic, but President Trump is by default one of the best arguments for constraining the role of government. "General welfare" is as far as government should go. 

...Let's analyze the slogan "Make America Great Again". Is this "greatness"? I can start with the states alphabetically... and Alabama has a monstrous heritage to live down. That isn't easy for Alabama.



Not even churches were safe in "Bombingham". Four black girls died there while changing their choir robes as a bomb set by fascist pigs ripped them to pieces.  

  

Bloody Sunday, March 7, 1965: Selma, Alabama. I don't like to hear or see police called "pigs", but in this case they were:



Michael Donald, 19 -- lynched in 1981 by members of the United Klans of America. He was dead before he was hanged. Great, all right -- great evil. 

...................

I have my ideas of American greatness, and those often involve America stumbling into a dangerous situation and doing the right things. American greatness involves, for example, liberating Dachau and Mauthausen from the definitive white devils -- people not much different in ideology from the KKK.

America is great when it does great things due to goodness, competence, and heroism.

(05-31-2020, 06:05 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-31-2020, 01:38 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-30-2020, 10:16 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]You do realize that if you assign a description to everyone, that description becomes essentially useless?  

What would you know about integrity if you commonly describe those who disagree with you in ways which don't fit in the least?

I realize it but do you realize it? I ask because you describe us as racist and associate us with racism all the time. It's pretty much useless with us but that hasn't stopped you and others here from doing it. I assume that it's not useless with the minority voters on your side which is why you and others keep using it as much as you and others do.

Socialism works for the Republicans because it fits and it's now supported by most of the Democrats because the Democrats understand that they can't win without the support of those who either want it/believe in it. Now, socialism may not be your cup of tea but your stuck with the term because the Democratic party is now open as far as socialism these days vs hiding it's association with it like it did for years.

No.  I only apply racism to racists.

Actually, the schtick of calling Democrats Socialist and Republicans fascist has faded somewhat.  A few die hard partisans such as yourself, Eric and Pbower are still stuck a few decades back.

News flash!  George Will, he of the bow tie and perpetual conservative bent, has started calling people like Trump and others of his ilk, conservative authoritarians.  If it's reached that far into the old right, it may be immutable.

(05-31-2020, 10:11 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]News flash!  George Will, he of the bow tie and perpetual conservative bent, has started calling people like Trump and others of his ilk, [url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/...story.html]conservative authoritarians[/url].  If it's reached that far into the old right, it may be immutable.

I could go with that.

George Will Wrote:The moral of this story is not that there is theocracy in our future. Rather, it is that American conservatism, when severed from the Enlightenment and its finest result, the American Founding, becomes spectacularly unreasonable and literally un-American.

(05-31-2020, 06:05 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-31-2020, 01:38 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-30-2020, 10:16 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]You do realize that if you assign a description to everyone, that description becomes essentially useless?  

What would you know about integrity if you commonly describe those who disagree with you in ways which don't fit in the least?

I realize it but do you realize it? I ask because you describe us as racist and associate us with racism all the time. It's pretty much useless with us but that hasn't stopped you and others here from doing it. I assume that it's not useless with the minority voters on your side which is why you and others keep using it as much as you and others do.

Socialism works for the Republicans because it fits and it's now supported by most of the Democrats because the Democrats understand that they can't win without the support of those who either want it/believe in it. Now, socialism may not be your cup of tea but your stuck with the term because the Democratic party is now open as far as socialism these days vs hiding it's association with it like it did for years.

No.  I only apply racism to racists.

Actually, the schtick of calling Democrats Socialist and Republicans fascist has faded somewhat.  A few die hard partisans such as yourself, Eric and Pbower are still stuck a few decades back.

I see that you excluded yourself AGAIN. It's sure nice of you to do that for yourself again Bob. I'll be nice too. I'll add in Dave for you. As I mentioned, socialism still exists within the Democratic party. You still have Bernie, AOC and a bunch of socialist minded Democrats in the House and the Senate, a bunch of academics pushing/promoting Marxism ( young attractive AOC is the is the living proof) and teaching racism and bigotry to their young students too, a bunch of young  Democratic voters still  voting for socialism or socialist programs and a bunch Democratic still receiving handouts and still voting to keep their handouts and a bunch of Democratic politicians promising them more handouts and socialist programs and passing new bills in Congress that are loaded with more handouts and socialist programs and new funding for new recipients who aren't legal yet.

I was informed by a close friend that he is no longer a Democratic voter and he considers himself an Independent voter now. It took him about fifteen years to start seeing things our way vs the liberal's/Demcrats way. I suggest that you and others start preparing for a parting of ways and start preparing for more violence. You're to ignorant/blind to realize, the Democratic buffer that used to keep the peace between the dominant cultures no longer exists these days. The American right isn't going to dick around with ghetto slugs, left wing anarchists or college age morons who where masks, orchestrate riots and act like the ghetto slugs.  

Bob, you make the mistake of calling me a liar for telling you the truth and others the truth as I see it or know it and do it in a way that says you're not one yourself and you have never lied IN PUBLIC and you have never lied to me PERSONALLY. Well, all I have to say, there will be hell to pay.   Hint: No buffer means direct conflict between the Left and the American right is now evident and more likely going to happen from here on.

(06-01-2020, 02:26 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]I see that you excluded yourself AGAIN. It's sure nice of you to do that for yourself again Bob. I'll be nice too. I'll add in Dave for you. As I mentioned, socialism still exists within the Democratic party. You still have Bernie, AOC and a bunch of socialist minded Democrats in the House and the Senate, a bunch of academics pushing/promoting Marxism ( young attractive AOC is the is the living proof) and teaching racism and bigotry to their young  students too, a bunch of young  Democratic voters still  voting for socialism or socialist programs and a bunch Democratic still receiving handouts and still voting to keep their handouts and a bunch of Democratic politicians promising them  more handouts and socialist programs and passing new bills in Congress that are loaded with more handouts and socialist programs and new funding for new recipients who aren't legal yet.

I was informed by a close friend that he is no longer a Democratic voter and he considers himself an Independent voter now. It took him about fifteen years to start seeing things our way vs the liberal's/Demcrats way. I suggest that you and others start preparing for a parting of ways and start preparing for more violence. You're to ignorant/blind to realize, the Democratic buffer that used to keep the peace between the dominant cultures no longer exists these days. The American right isn't  going to dick around with ghetto slugs, left wing anarchists or college age morons who where masks, orchestrate riots  and   act like the ghetto slugs.    

Bob, you make the mistake of calling me a liar for telling you the truth and others the truth as I see it or know it and do it in a way that says you're not one yourself and you have never lied IN PUBLIC and you have never lied to me PERSONALLY. Well, all I have to say, there will be hell to pay.       Hint: No buffer means direct conflict between the Left and the American right is now evident and more likely going to happen from here on.

I don't disagree that socialism exists in the Democratic Party.  It is just that socialism can mean different things to different people, thus it makes a poor label.  Bernie Sanders and his crowd uses in in the European sense, that of government working for the people, the sense seen in the preamble to the US Constitution.  Most Republicans use it in the soviet and Asian sense, as the government working for the party, for the elites, for the owners of the means of production.  I am for the European form, against the Asian form, as are many Democrats.  But, because the word socialism means different things to different people, it makes a poor label.

I see you as a demonizer and liar for misrepresenting other's beliefs.  You criticize the demonized version of people, rather than what they actually believe.  You may sincerely believe your demonizations, but this sincere belief in a political fantasy is not an excuse to willfully remain ignorant of what people really believe.  It certainly doesn't block me from repeating the counters to your demonizations and lies.

Again, Marx correctly diagnosed the problem, but his way of solving the problem was a badly flawed failure which virtually no one is eager to repeat.  Even the Chinese Communist Party is working hand in hand with the capitalists these days.  This doesn't mean the problems of a grossly profiteering elite don't need to be solved.  Government for the few rather than the many is a problem.

(06-01-2020, 05:02 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]... Marx correctly diagnosed the problem, but his way of solving the problem was a badly flawed failure which virtually no one is eager to repeat.  Even the Chinese Communist Party is working hand in hand with the capitalists these days.  This doesn't mean the problems of a grossly profiteering elite don't need to be solved.  Government for the few rather than the many is a problem.

It's hard to know what Marx would have done, if he had the opportunity to enact his own ideas. We only know what Lenin and the Bolsheviks did with their shot. Following the Soviets, the other Marxist nations tried their versions too. But none were already advance industrial nations, as Marx assumed. None have seen the state fade away either -- quite to the contrary. On the other hand, it doesn't take a genius to see that capitalism is at a crossroad. The power of labor is already fading fast, and it's too easy for capital to take advantage.

When all jobs are gig jobs, we'll become a true oligarchy or a massive change will occur. It would be better for it to happen earlier, but we're Americans: we try everything else first.