Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory

(06-17-2020, 09:37 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]My skin color is not relevant.

The lack of justice and equality is relevant.  The racist patten of the police is relevant.  Your own racist and violent attitudes that this pattern should continue is relevant.

Every two or four generations there is rejection of the racism, and movement towards justice.  Many conservatives, such as yourself, would rather see the racism, violence, injustice in inequality continue.  This isn’t your moment in history.  Go fade into the looser's place in the history books, the holder of an antiquated set of values which are held as abhorrent.

As I've said, the only groups that have a major stake or vested interest in the continuation of racism, violence and injustice in equality are the groups that we've watched protest and watched rioting, looting and destroying portions of cities and liberal Democrats who are mainly reliant on them for their political power and lively hood these days. Nope. I'm glad to say that this isn't my moment in history and I have no problem with you claiming it as yours . It's pretty clear to me, the thugs/criminals/looters won the recent battle that took place in the blue cities and the liberal Democrats seem to be eager to please and seem eager to make concessions. My time in history has yet to come.

(06-18-2020, 01:25 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 09:37 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]My skin color is not relevant.

The lack of justice and equality is relevant.  The racist patten of the police is relevant.  Your own racist and violent attitudes that this pattern should continue is relevant.

Every two or four generations there is rejection of the racism, and movement towards justice.  Many conservatives, such as yourself, would rather see the racism, violence, injustice in inequality continue.  This isn’t your moment in history.  Go fade into the looser's place in the history books, the holder of an antiquated set of values which are held as abhorrent.

As I've said, the only groups that have a major stake or vested interest in the continuation of racism, violence and injustice in equality are the groups that we've watched protest and watched rioting, looting and destroying portions of cities and liberal Democrats who are mainly reliant on them for their political power and lively hood these days. Nope. I'm glad to say that this isn't my moment in history and I have no problem with you claiming it as yours . It's pretty clear to me, the thugs/criminals/looters won the recent battle that took place in the blue cities and the liberal Democrats seem to be eager to please and seem eager to make concessions. My time in history has yet to come.

The only groups that have a major stake or vested interest in the continuation of racism, violence and injustice in equality are those who profiteer from the mistreatment of others. Note well that racism (and it always results in violence, injustice, and inequity) is typically used to divide the working class by pitting one ethnic group against another so that the economic elites can impose lower pay, harsher management,  and worse working conditions. 

Domestic tranquility, justice, and equity (there never will be equality between workers because the contributions of an unskilled worker are less valuable than those of someone who works with a well-honed skill, and because some people really do work more conscientiously than others or under less pleasant conditions) do not thrive in a racially-divided society. 

All that the thugs that you rightly condemn will get as the consequence of their crimes will be prison terms. Can one be involved in a Black Lives Matter rally and disagree with someone taking booze out of a liquor store in the chaos? Yup! I would turn any video over to the relevant police or prosecuting attorney. Sure, looters will get their time -- in prison. Tough luck. That isn't what Black Lives Matters is about.

It is wisest to conduct one's life in a way that does not depend upon the mistreatment of others. Skill? Shrewd investment? Toil? None of that is mistreatment of others. Social orders that predicate themselves upon the mistreatment of others for the profit, indulgence, and gain of a few are the ones most likely to fall to a proletarian revolution.

(06-18-2020, 01:48 AM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-18-2020, 01:25 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 09:37 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]My skin color is not relevant.

The lack of justice and equality is relevant.  The racist patten of the police is relevant.  Your own racist and violent attitudes that this pattern should continue is relevant.

Every two or four generations there is rejection of the racism, and movement towards justice.  Many conservatives, such as yourself, would rather see the racism, violence, injustice in inequality continue.  This isn’t your moment in history.  Go fade into the looser's place in the history books, the holder of an antiquated set of values which are held as abhorrent.

As I've said, the only groups that have a major stake or vested interest in the continuation of racism, violence and injustice in equality are the groups that we've watched protest and watched rioting, looting and destroying portions of cities and liberal Democrats who are mainly reliant on them for their political power and lively hood these days. Nope. I'm glad to say that this isn't my moment in history and I have no problem with you claiming it as yours . It's pretty clear to me, the thugs/criminals/looters won the recent battle that took place in the blue cities and the liberal Democrats seem to be eager to please and seem eager to make concessions. My time in history has yet to come.

https://images.app.goo.gl/nNeiUyx6JmtQrsvP6

Three times race has bubbled up to become a significant issue to the culture.

Once was the Civil War.  The conservative faction wanted to maintain slavery.  The progressives at first wanted to limit it to where it was.  This was the Industrial Age.  If you wanted to change the status quo, you seemed to need violence.  Well, the conservative faction initiated the violence, and were overcome by the response.

The second time was the Civil Rights Movement.  If the border of the Information Age was World War II, this was very early in it.  You got transformational change through protest and democracy, which was what happened.  The peaceful protest was opposed by racist violence by the police and others in the conservative faction who wished to retain racial supremacy.  Some organizations like the Black Panthers thought violence necessary, but were proven wrong.

This is the third time.  The primary movement is Black Lives Matter.  They are opposing racist violence by the conservative faction.  They conservatives are, of course, responding with racist violence.  That is not how things are resolved in the Information Age.  You protest until you get a response though democracy.  Of course, the conservative faction initiated racial violence.  That is what they do.  Of course there are looters as well as protesters.  The Boogaloo Bois believe the establishment has failed, and revolution is the proper response.  That approach was tried by Lenin, Stalin and Mao.  It didn’t work that well at all.  You respond to the people by giving them what they demand.  You respond to the looters with police.

This is of course not the response of certain racist police unions, of Trump, or of you.  You have consistently supported racist violence, and Agricultural Age element of the culture which has long required removal.  As Taramarie’s post so clearly indicated, the protests against it have steadily escalated.  They are now reaching a crescendo which it is hard to ignore, at least if you are progressive.

I don’t believe violence is the way to go in the Information Age.  Transformations come through protest and democracy.  Still, the conservatives ignore protests and initiate violence rather than listen to the people.  To the extent they are violent, they invite a violent response.  This proves futile and counterproductive in the long run, but if you refuse to listen to polite protest then groups like the Boogaloos Bois will try to exploit the legitimate process that has a proven record in the Information Age.

You are clearly obsessed with violence.  You recently have been supporting racist violence.  Perhaps you really cannot tell the difference between Black Lives Matter and the Boogaloos Bois.  They have different doctrines and demand a different response.  In response to one, you end the conservative racist police violence.  In response to the other, law enforcement is appropriate.  If you try to combine the two, you get racism.  You are answering the right to assemble and redress grievances with racist violence.

Now some are disappointed that this crisis is kind of disappointing.  No crisis war.  Boring.  Here we are in the crisis heart, and nothing is happening.  Well, here we are getting a small echo of the Industrial Age.  The conservatives are again trying to resolve the issue through violence, they are again trying to maintain white supremacy, and a small part of the protests against the conservative violence is (gasp) violent.  Yes, the Boogaloo Bois reaction to the racist conservative violence is futile and unnecessary.  Yes, the police should resist the futility as much as possible.  That does not mean the main line protests are not valid or inevitable.

(06-17-2020, 11:27 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 11:14 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Unlike what classic Xer says, two sherriff and federal officers were murdered in northern CA by a member of the far right boogaloo movement which wants to start a civil war.

Nitpick:  The Boogaloo Boys believe revolution is the only way to renew an establishment out of hand.  In this they are following the path of Stalin and Mao, which most consider discredited.  The Republicans are the establishment out of hand.  I'm not sure both deserve the same label, or if so it is a weird label.  I also think Classic can't tell the Black Lives matter from the Boogaloo Boys, or pretends not to be able to tell.  He has been arguing for racist violence, while both the protesters and the Boogaloo Boys are against it in very different ways.

Add to that, the RW media are incenting their viewers/listeners/readers to defend their homes and families from Antifa.  There is a large and coordinated effort to trigger a race war, but why is the question.  Who gains from this?

(06-18-2020, 01:37 PM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 11:27 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 11:14 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Unlike what classic Xer says, two sherriff and federal officers were murdered in northern CA by a member of the far right boogaloo movement which wants to start a civil war.

Nitpick:  The Boogaloo Boys believe revolution is the only way to renew an establishment out of hand.  In this they are following the path of Stalin and Mao, which most consider discredited.  The Republicans are the establishment out of hand.  I'm not sure both deserve the same label, or if so it is a weird label.  I also think Classic can't tell the Black Lives matter from the Boogaloo Boys, or pretends not to be able to tell.  He has been arguing for racist violence, while both the protesters and the Boogaloo Boys are against it in very different ways.

Add to that, the RW media are incenting their viewers/listeners/readers to defend their homes and families from Antifa.  There is a large and coordinated effort to trigger a race war, but why is the question.  Who gains from this?

The Boogaloo Boys are indeed for racist violence, since that's what the boogaloo is (a civil war), and which a few at least of whom think killing police is one way to achieve, apparently. And Trump stokes racist violence too. But like any vast group, there are different shades within the right-wing of the USA.

(06-18-2020, 01:25 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 09:37 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]My skin color is not relevant.

The lack of justice and equality is relevant.  The racist patten of the police is relevant.  Your own racist and violent attitudes that this pattern should continue is relevant.

Every two or four generations there is rejection of the racism, and movement towards justice.  Many conservatives, such as yourself, would rather see the racism, violence, injustice in inequality continue.  This isn’t your moment in history.  Go fade into the looser's place in the history books, the holder of an antiquated set of values which are held as abhorrent.

As I've said, the only groups that have a major stake or vested interest in the continuation of racism, violence and injustice in equality are the groups that we've watched protest and watched rioting, looting and destroying portions of cities and liberal Democrats who are mainly reliant on them for their political power and lively hood these days. Nope. I'm glad to say that this isn't my moment in history and I have no problem with you claiming it as yours . It's pretty clear to me, the thugs/criminals/looters won the recent battle that took place in the blue cities and the liberal Democrats seem to be eager to please and seem eager to make concessions. My time in history has yet to come.

It is natural for political alliances to form. Indeed, the movement against racism must be seen as an ally among the progressives who oppose Reaganomics, especially since Reaganomics is the prime cause of continued systemic racism and the inability of society to address poverty and inequality and indeed every other problem. Every progressive candidate must address every progressive movement, and there are several large ones as I have indicated. None can win alone. So yes, Democrats rely on every member and every group of the blue alliance. Injustice fuels discontent, which fuels liberal movements for change and helps the politicians that represent them get elected. 

If victories are achieved, and racism, brutality, lack of social and economic mobility, pollution and climate change, lousy health care, attacks on democracy and effective government programs and agencies, and gun violence, all substantially decrease, then people will move on, consensus and consolidation will ensue, movements will subside, and conventional lifestyles and attitudes can revive in a first turning. The Classic Xers of the world look forward to this first turning, when (we hope) America will be great again, but meanwhile they oppose the actions necessary for a successful first turning to develop. So ironically, all the Classic Xers and the other members of the Red Team MUST be defeated in this 4T in order for their 1T hopes to be achieved!

(06-18-2020, 01:37 PM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 11:27 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 11:14 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Unlike what classic Xer says, two sherriff and federal officers were murdered in northern CA by a member of the far right boogaloo movement which wants to start a civil war.

Nitpick:  The Boogaloo Boys believe revolution is the only way to renew an establishment out of hand.  In this they are following the path of Stalin and Mao, which most consider discredited.  The Republicans are the establishment out of hand.  I'm not sure both deserve the same label, or if so it is a weird label.  I also think Classic can't tell the Black Lives matter from the Boogaloo Boys, or pretends not to be able to tell.  He has been arguing for racist violence, while both the protesters and the Boogaloo Boys are against it in very different ways.

Add to that, the RW media are incenting their viewers/listeners/readers to defend their homes and families from Antifa.  There is a large and coordinated effort to trigger a race war, but why is the question.  Who gains from this?

The media gets a bogus way to hype up their followers and sell media? As far as I know the Antifa is against fascists. They show up primarily to counter KKK and Neo Nazi demonstrations, and both of those are laying low these days. I imagine somewhere in the mass of protestors are a few Antifa members, but why bother to advertise? They would be pushing another complementary theme. But this doesn't stop right wing media from misrepresenting the views of a group on the perceived opposite side. The righties get to feel good about their right to bear arms and defend themselves from tourists and other imaginary threats?

But racists are also about feeling superior to somebody. Proving themselves superior to tourists is as good a way of being superior as any? Support your right to be a bully?

CNN opines that The Trump presidency is at its absolute lowest point right now

Seems to me the opening up restrictions policy when the COVUS 19 curves are going up will make it worse.  I suspect he could get lower.

(06-17-2020, 11:27 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 11:14 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Unlike what classic Xer says, two sherriff and federal officers were murdered in northern CA by a member of the far right boogaloo movement which wants to start a civil war.

Nitpick:  The Boogaloo Boys believe revolution is the only way to renew an establishment out of hand.  In this they are following the path of Stalin and Mao, which most consider discredited.  The Republicans are the establishment out of hand.  I'm not sure both deserve the same label, or if so it is a weird label.  I also think Classic can't tell the Black Lives matter from the Boogaloo Boys, or pretends not to be able to tell.  He has been arguing for racist violence, while both the protesters and the Boogaloo Boys are against it in very different ways.

It's hard to tell the difference between them when they're together in a large group. I'm glad that you Goggled them and learned that the Boogaloo Boys are actually a Communist LW group of extremist instead of a RW group of extremists as Dave stated. I'm not arguing for violence. I've been saying that violence, looting and property destruction that we've seen multiple times will be met with all kinds of new laws and violence.

(06-18-2020, 07:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 11:27 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 11:14 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Unlike what classic Xer says, two sherriff and federal officers were murdered in northern CA by a member of the far right boogaloo movement which wants to start a civil war.

Nitpick:  The Boogaloo Boys believe revolution is the only way to renew an establishment out of hand.  In this they are following the path of Stalin and Mao, which most consider discredited.  The Republicans are the establishment out of hand.  I'm not sure both deserve the same label, or if so it is a weird label.  I also think Classic can't tell the Black Lives matter from the Boogaloo Boys, or pretends not to be able to tell.  He has been arguing for racist violence, while both the protesters and the Boogaloo Boys are against it in very different ways.

It's hard to tell the difference between them when they're together in a  large group. I'm glad that you Goggled them and learned that the Boogaloo Boys are actually a Communist LW group of extremist instead of a RW group of extremists as Dave stated. I'm not arguing for violence. I've been saying that violence, looting and property destruction that we've seen multiple times will be met with all kinds of new laws and violence.

I googled boogaloo and found out it is a right wing group that wants civil war. I wonder if Classic Xer is parroting his dear leader Trump who is fomenting the idea that recent riots are caused by antifa.

(06-18-2020, 07:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]It's hard to tell the difference between them when they're together in a  large group. I'm glad that you Goggled them and learned that the Boogaloo Boys are actually a Communist LW group of extremist instead of a RW group of extremists as Dave stated. I'm not arguing for violence. I've been saying that violence, looting and property destruction that we've seen multiple times will be met with all kinds of new laws and violence.

I'll give you a hint.  The protesters will be the ones protesting.  The looters will be the ones looting.  Hard, I know, but the protestors have a right to petition the government for the redress of grievances.  The looters don't have the right to loot, commit arson, etc...

Red - Blue, Republican - Democrat, conservative - progressive, these can be safely tagged right  or left wing.  Any time in the US you go far from the above pairing, the labels get kind of crazy.  I think anyone with any sense would try to associate them with the other guys, but the Boogaloo Boys are anti establishment, and the left and right together are the establishment.  The Boogaloo Bois supposedly are interested in revolution to overthrow the elites.  That is good old Marxism, though they avoid the name.  The idea that Marx is of the left is obsolete in the Information Age, but if anyone wants to play games with the labels they can try to do so.

The progressives favor progress.  In this case the racist violence which has been going on for centuries must take a long setp towards stopping.  Some police have racism and violence as an element of their culture.  The people are saying enough, the elected officials are for the most part listening, but the police unions, Trump, and other racist elements are all for continuing institutionalize racist violence.  I for one hope the protesters keep up the pressure and the police face a new respect for the people thy are supposed to serve and protect.  Some people have been cheerleading for the racist violence.  You seem to be one of them.

Of course many right-wing extremists, alt-rightists and Trumpists say they are "anti-establishment." So are many conspiracy theorists. I think by looking at their ideologies we can sort them out into right and left, and left is always progressive and thus the real anti-establishment. But once the anti-establishment has some power, then those who want to reestablish the old reactionary rule are "anti-establishment."

According to the wikipedia article boogaloo appears to be a new group, or a new term, adding to the emerging potential of the violent right-wing resistance to a left or liberal government, which may go further left in the progressive 2020s and enact anti-racist and anti-gun policies. Some boogaloo groups appear to be anti-racist themselves, however.

And certainly their pro-gun stance is as right-wing and "pro-establishment" as it gets. But, perhaps Bob would disagree on that point, which might make him not so convinced in his opinion that they can be lumped together with the Republicans. But they are clearly of similar mind to the Trump fans who have taken over that Party today, and I have no problem lumping many of them together. Their libertarian and anarchist opinions also fit in with the Republican Party, but violence against society may not appeal to many establishment conservatives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boogaloo_movement

(06-18-2020, 04:00 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-18-2020, 01:37 PM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 11:27 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 11:14 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Unlike what classic Xer says, two sherriff and federal officers were murdered in northern CA by a member of the far right boogaloo movement which wants to start a civil war.

Nitpick:  The Boogaloo Boys believe revolution is the only way to renew an establishment out of hand.  In this they are following the path of Stalin and Mao, which most consider discredited.  The Republicans are the establishment out of hand.  I'm not sure both deserve the same label, or if so it is a weird label.  I also think Classic can't tell the Black Lives matter from the Boogaloo Boys, or pretends not to be able to tell.  He has been arguing for racist violence, while both the protesters and the Boogaloo Boys are against it in very different ways.

Add to that, the RW media are incenting their viewers/listeners/readers to defend their homes and families from Antifa.  There is a large and coordinated effort to trigger a race war, but why is the question.  Who gains from this?

The media gets a bogus way to hype up their followers and sell media?  As far as I know the Antifa is against fascists.  They show up primarily to counter KKK and Neo Nazi demonstrations, and both of those are laying low these days.  I imagine somewhere in the mass of protestors are a few Antifa members, but why bother to advertise?  They would be pushing another complementary theme.  But this doesn't stop right wing media from misrepresenting the views of a group on the perceived opposite side.  The righties get to feel good about their right to bear arms and defend themselves from tourists and other imaginary threats?

But racists are also about feeling superior to somebody.  Proving themselves superior to tourists is as good a way of being superior as any?  Support your right to be a bully?

I'm sure that you are familiar with the slogan "Fascist Pigs" that was popular back in the day. It appears that Antfa believes the same shit as you did back in the day. So, what taught them that? Marxists?

(06-18-2020, 07:49 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-18-2020, 07:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 11:27 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 11:14 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Unlike what classic Xer says, two sherriff and federal officers were murdered in northern CA by a member of the far right boogaloo movement which wants to start a civil war.

Nitpick:  The Boogaloo Boys believe revolution is the only way to renew an establishment out of hand.  In this they are following the path of Stalin and Mao, which most consider discredited.  The Republicans are the establishment out of hand.  I'm not sure both deserve the same label, or if so it is a weird label.  I also think Classic can't tell the Black Lives matter from the Boogaloo Boys, or pretends not to be able to tell.  He has been arguing for racist violence, while both the protesters and the Boogaloo Boys are against it in very different ways.

It's hard to tell the difference between them when they're together in a  large group. I'm glad that you Goggled them and learned that the Boogaloo Boys are actually a Communist LW group of extremist instead of a RW group of extremists as Dave stated. I'm not arguing for violence. I've been saying that violence, looting and property destruction that we've seen multiple times will be met with all kinds of new laws and violence.

I googled boogaloo and found out it is a right wing group that wants civil war. I wonder if Classic Xer is parroting his dear leader Trump who is fomenting the idea that recent riots are caused by antifa.

Hence a new meaning to a popular 1960s dance song.  Indeed what might “Boogaloo Down Broadway “ mean today?

(06-18-2020, 09:53 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-18-2020, 07:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]It's hard to tell the difference between them when they're together in a  large group. I'm glad that you Goggled them and learned that the Boogaloo Boys are actually a Communist LW group of extremist instead of a RW group of extremists as Dave stated. I'm not arguing for violence. I've been saying that violence, looting and property destruction that we've seen multiple times will be met with all kinds of new laws and violence.

I'll give you a hint.  The protesters will be the ones protesting.  The looters will be the ones looting.  Hard, I know, but the protestors have a right to petition the government for the redress of grievances.  The looters don't have the right to loot, commit arson, etc...

Red - Blue, Republican - Democrat, conservative - progressive, these can be safely tagged right  or left wing.  Any time in the US you go far from the above pairing, the labels get kind of crazy.  I think anyone with any sense would try to associate them with the other guys, but the Boogaloo Boys are anti establishment, and the left and right together are the establishment.  The Boogaloo Bois supposedly are interested in revolution to overthrow the elites.  That is good old Marxism, though they avoid the name.  The idea that Marx is of the left is obsolete in the Information Age, but if anyone wants to play games with the labels they can try to do so.

The progressives favor progress.  In this case the racist violence which has been going on for centuries must take a long setp towards stopping.  Some police have racism and violence as an element of their culture.  The people are saying enough, the elected officials are for the most part listening, but the police unions, Trump, and other racist elements are all for continuing institutionalize racist violence.  I for one hope the protesters keep up the pressure and the police face a new respect for the people thy are supposed to serve and protect.  Some people have been cheerleading for the racist violence.  You seem to be one of them.

The progressives prefer keeping things the way they are for themselves and the conservatives prefer the same for themselves as well. That's the way that I see it and have always seen it. Now, if you want to turn a blind and continue to claim that we are responsible for the violence even though we had nothing to do with the violence or the death of George Floyd or George Floyd trying to use a counterfeit 20$ bill and being turned in to the police by a law abiding person.

Marxism will be obsolete when the Democrats let go of it and stop relying on it politically or their voters begin to recognize it and separate themselves from it completely. The chance of that happening now is none because the majority of the Democratic supporters and politicians are Marxist influenced on way or another. You even described yourself to me as half Marxist not to along ago. The same goes with racism.

(06-18-2020, 07:49 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-18-2020, 07:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 11:27 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 11:14 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Unlike what classic Xer says, two sherriff and federal officers were murdered in northern CA by a member of the far right boogaloo movement which wants to start a civil war.

Nitpick:  The Boogaloo Boys believe revolution is the only way to renew an establishment out of hand.  In this they are following the path of Stalin and Mao, which most consider discredited.  The Republicans are the establishment out of hand.  I'm not sure both deserve the same label, or if so it is a weird label.  I also think Classic can't tell the Black Lives matter from the Boogaloo Boys, or pretends not to be able to tell.  He has been arguing for racist violence, while both the protesters and the Boogaloo Boys are against it in very different ways.

It's hard to tell the difference between them when they're together in a  large group. I'm glad that you Goggled them and learned that the Boogaloo Boys are actually a Communist LW group of extremist instead of a RW group of extremists as Dave stated. I'm not arguing for violence. I've been saying that violence, looting and property destruction that we've seen multiple times will be met with all kinds of new laws and violence.

I googled boogaloo and found out it is a right wing group that wants civil war. I wonder if Classic Xer is parroting his dear leader Trump who is fomenting the idea that recent riots are caused by antifa.

Why would a group that wants to start a civil war or a race war target a couple security guards of a federal building instead of targeting a bunch of LW protestors like they would do to achieve their goal? According to the article that Dave posted which was pretty vague and inconclusive like most press releases are that are that are hot of the press and latched on to and posted by a liberal because it mentioned FBI concerns about RW extremist groups becoming more active which matches concerns that I've expressed to you guys. America itself will most likely opt to arm up and sit it out as you and them kill and inflict damage on each other and wait to defeat the victor. America itself ain't dumb.

(06-19-2020, 12:59 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-18-2020, 07:49 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-18-2020, 07:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 11:27 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-17-2020, 11:14 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Unlike what classic Xer says, two sherriff and federal officers were murdered in northern CA by a member of the far right boogaloo movement which wants to start a civil war.

Nitpick:  The Boogaloo Boys believe revolution is the only way to renew an establishment out of hand.  In this they are following the path of Stalin and Mao, which most consider discredited.  The Republicans are the establishment out of hand.  I'm not sure both deserve the same label, or if so it is a weird label.  I also think Classic can't tell the Black Lives matter from the Boogaloo Boys, or pretends not to be able to tell.  He has been arguing for racist violence, while both the protesters and the Boogaloo Boys are against it in very different ways.

It's hard to tell the difference between them when they're together in a  large group. I'm glad that you Goggled them and learned that the Boogaloo Boys are actually a Communist LW group of extremist instead of a RW group of extremists as Dave stated. I'm not arguing for violence. I've been saying that violence, looting and property destruction that we've seen multiple times will be met with all kinds of new laws and violence.

I googled boogaloo and found out it is a right wing group that wants civil war. I wonder if Classic Xer is parroting his dear leader Trump who is fomenting the idea that recent riots are caused by antifa.

Why would a group that wants to start a civil war or a race war target a couple security guards of a federal building instead of targeting a bunch of LW protestors like they would do to achieve their goal? According to the article that Dave posted which was pretty vague and inconclusive like most press releases are that are that are hot of the press and latched on to and posted by a liberal because it mentioned FBI concerns about RW extremist groups becoming more active which matches concerns that I've expressed to you guys. America itself will most likely opt to arm up and sit it out as you and them kill and inflict damage on each other and wait to defeat the victor. America itself ain't dumb.

Never try to make sense out of something absolutely crazy. 

Extremists on the Left and Right differ largely in identity and culture.  Thus the real difference between the KKK and the New Black Panther Party. The Strasser (Gregor and Otto) wing of the German Nazi Party was practically Bolshevik -- except for holding that Jews could never be genuine socialists because of 'racial' characteristics. Many fascists had gone to fascism after matriculating through left-sing Socialism, including former Commies Jacques Doriot and Alessandro Pavolini.

(06-19-2020, 12:22 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]Marxism will be obsolete when the Democrats let go of it and stop relying on it politically or their voters begin to recognize it and separate themselves from it completely. The chance of that happening now is none because the majority of the Democratic supporters and politicians are Marxist influenced on way or another. You even described yourself to me as half Marxist not to along ago. The same goes with racism.

With the possible exceptions of North Korea and Venezuela, there are no Marxists left to fight. Give it up!

Just as a side note: socialism is the opposite of capitalism, not freedom or democracy. There are many OECD nations that embrace more socialism and less capitalism. They are still free. The nations that are unfree embrace crony capitalism or captive enterprises: China, Iran and Russia being major examples.

(06-19-2020, 12:59 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-18-2020, 07:49 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]I googled boogaloo and found out it is a right wing group that wants civil war. I wonder if Classic Xer is parroting his dear leader Trump who is fomenting the idea that recent riots are caused by antifa.

Why would a group that wants to start a civil war or a race war target a couple security guards of a federal building instead of targeting a bunch of LW protestors like they would do to achieve their goal?

Why? Because killing Federal officers gets the RW 2nd Amendment types up in arms -- literally. And they aren't "security guards" in the sense of mall cops. Guarding Federal facilities is the job of the Federal Protective Services -- a part of the US government. They are licensed officers.

Classic-Xer Wrote:According to the article that Dave posted which was pretty vague and inconclusive like most press releases are that are that are hot of the press and latched on to and posted by a liberal because it mentioned FBI concerns about RW extremist groups becoming more active which matches concerns that I've expressed to you guys. America itself will most likely opt to arm up and sit it out as you and them kill and inflict damage on each other and wait to defeat the victor. America itself ain't dumb.

What we're seeing is rampant paranoia, with guns added for full measure. If this erupts into violence, and the gun crowd out of fear from their unarmed neighbors decide to turn this into a bloodbath, you will see the Martial Law you seem to crave. It won't be pretty for the armed-to-the-teeth crowd.

Yep. Those militias will find themselves overwhelmed by the Marine Corps, the Seals, the 82nd and 101st Airborne Units...