Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory

I was doing my usual Rachel news dump, and it seems Trump is not holding back.

The head of the US broadcast agencies such as Voice of America, Radio Free Europe, Radio Free Asia, etc... has just seen to the retirement of the two permanent heads of the agencies and fired the boards of all the various channels. These had been traditionally non partisan positions, kept well balanced between the two party's people, but far more into chasing America's perspective rather than any party. If in the impeachment we caught a glimpse of the non partisan deep state's loyalty to America first and party a distant second, the tradition in the broadcast circle of the US Government has been if anything deeper.

We will have to watch, but it looks like Trump is pulling the pros and replacing them with partisans. If Fox occasionally bucks up against Trump, he is looking for a media force he can truly control and is displacing the existing bi partisan tradition in the process.

In another move, he seems to be going after the prosecutors chasing down international business irregularities in New York. Again, he is ignoring a tradition that only people who grew up in the office step up to take over, and has appointed a partisan to take over, including some particular investigations into a dictator he likes.

Summary? If Trump is starting to recognize that the polls have him as the underdog in the upcoming election, he is pulling the stops and being more Trump like than Trump. If there are reasons he is becoming unpopular, he is not learning from them, but exaggerating them. He is converting parts of the government that served America and trying to arrange for them to serve Trump.

It seems counterproductive to me, but it looks like he is going all in with being himself.

(06-19-2020, 09:28 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I was doing my usual Rachel news dump, and it seems Trump is not holding back.  

The head of the US broadcast agencies such as Voice of America, Radio Free Europe, Radio Free Asia, etc... has just seen to the retirement of the two permanent heads of the agencies and fired the boards of all the various channels.  These had been traditionally non partisan positions, kept well balanced between the two party's people, but far more into chasing America's perspective rather than any party.  If in the impeachment we caught a glimpse of the non partisan deep state's loyalty to America first and party a distant second, the tradition in the broadcast circle of the US Government has been if anything deeper.

We will have to watch, but it looks like Trump is pulling the pros and replacing them with partisans.  If Fox occasionally bucks up against Trump, he is looking for a media force he can truly control and is displacing the existing bi partisan tradition in the process.

In another move, he seems to be going after the prosecutors chasing down international business irregularities in New York.  Again, he is ignoring a tradition that only people who grew up in the office step up to take over, and has appointed a partisan to take over, including some particular investigations into a dictator he likes.

Summary?  If Trump is starting to recognize that the polls have him as the underdog in the upcoming election, he is pulling the stops and being more Trump like than Trump.  If there are reasons he is becoming unpopular, he is not learning from them, but exaggerating them.  He is converting parts of the government that served America and trying to arrange for them to serve Trump.  

It seems counterproductive to me, but it looks like he is going all in with being himself.

Boy, if he wins he'll set himself up with his own propaganda ministry, even if he hasn't converted the armed forces into his private army yet.

It is a scary thought if he should win. Despite my enthusiasm about turning 8 Lichtman Keys against him, the election is still uncertain. There are the horoscope indicators that remain ambiguous, which means in my capacity as a crystal ball prognosticator I have to remain neutral and rely on other sources. 

Mr. Lichtman has not officially turned any more than 4 Keys against him, even though he says the outlook is getting worse for the incumbent. He still marks Key 7 as True, meaning he still thinks Trump has accomplished major policy changes. I don't see this to be the case, because I don't think they are major legal changes or that the people will vote for him because of them, but a case can be made for this Key to favor Trump. He marks the economic Keys 5 and 6 and the social unrest Key 8 as undecided and probably going to turn against him.

Meanwhile Biden is currently increasing his national popular vote lead to almost 9 points, and Trump's job approval is in a 12+ point hole. But even Lichtman, it seems, considers his Keys as indicating primarily the popular vote (which means the Keys were actually wrong in 2016), and we know how much of an advantage Trump has in the outdated electoral college. And the polls in those swing states are still only +Biden about 4 or 5 points on average, with some of the polls at times down to 1 or 2 points. So that's a long way from Biden sewing up the election.

If Trump wins, his war on the environment will cross a point of no return, and his destruction of impartial "deep state" federal service agencies and conversion of them into Trump Organization annexes will be complete. He will appoint still more reactionary judges, so that eventually he'll have enough for the Courts to approve whatever he wishes. This election is a matter of life and death for the Republic. I have never said a Trump victory in 2020 is the absolute end though, if congress takes over defacto during his 2nd term and tosses him out. But there will be no exaggerating the challenge.

I only hope that the every-20-year conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn is a sign in the heavens of reaching a cross-over point, because it happens at the cusp of and entry into progressive and congressional sign Aquarius. This conjunction has meant the party-in-power lost 7 out of 11 times, and a long series of presidents dying in office. Saturn has been testing the waters in Aquarius since the big 4-outer-planet conjunction in late March, and we've seen what a powerful correspondence this has been to the ramping up of crisis and progressive change already. And we're just peaking over the threshold now. We will cross over in a more permanent way in December, just after the election, when the conjunction happens. And meanwhile, aggressive energies and possibly the spiral of violence could be getting tighter in the many months between now and early 2021, with Mars in Aries (as in Pearl Harbor 4T times, for example). So, we'll see just what kind of threshold we cross then. But, a threshold it will be.

A little after the initial reports, it came out that the NY prosecutor refused to be fired by the White House.  AP has it as DOJ tries to oust US attorney investigating Trump allies.  This seems something of a first, resisting attempts at Trump trying to take control of an agency Trump is going after.

AP Wrote:The Justice Department moved abruptly Friday night to oust Geoffrey S. Berman, the U.S. attorney in Manhattan overseeing key prosecutions of President Donald Trump’s allies and an investigation of his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani. But Berman said he was refusing to leave his post and his ongoing investigations would continue.

(06-19-2020, 09:28 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I was doing my usual Rachel news dump, and it seems Trump is not holding back.  

The head of the US broadcast agencies such as Voice of America, Radio Free Europe, Radio Free Asia, etc... has just seen to the retirement of the two permanent heads of the agencies and fired the boards of all the various channels.  These had been traditionally non partisan positions, kept well balanced between the two party's people, but far more into chasing America's perspective rather than any party.  If in the impeachment we caught a glimpse of the non partisan deep state's loyalty to America first and party a distant second, the tradition in the broadcast circle of the US Government has been if anything deeper.

We will have to watch, but it looks like Trump is pulling the pros and replacing them with partisans.  If Fox occasionally bucks up against Trump, he is looking for a media force he can truly control and is displacing the existing bi partisan tradition in the process.

In another move, he seems to be going after the prosecutors chasing down international business irregularities in New York.  Again, he is ignoring a tradition that only people who grew up in the office step up to take over, and has appointed a partisan to take over, including some particular investigations into a dictator he likes.

Summary?  If Trump is starting to recognize that the polls have him as the underdog in the upcoming election, he is pulling the stops and being more Trump like than Trump.  If there are reasons he is becoming unpopular, he is not learning from them, but exaggerating them.  He is converting parts of the government that served America and trying to arrange for them to serve Trump.  

It seems counterproductive to me, but it looks like he is going all in with being himself.

This is a purge. Donald Trump may not be doing the "dictator" thing right (he certainly failed to outlaw  or otherwise castrate the Democratic Party), but he has done much in an effort to make the non-partisan sectors of government toe his line. 

This will be reversed.

The Washington Post provides a piece on the media firings.

They are making it more about how NPR has a perceived liberal bias which must be eliminated or corrected to a conservative bias, but expanding it to traditionally non partisan international efforts seems an over reaction if that were the motive.

White racism and white identity politics may be losing its appeal among white voters, with the support which black lives matter and police reform is getting in the country now. Trump's unique combo of America first on trade and immigration and non-intervention plus the white identity appeal boosted Trump in the swing states against a weak Democratic opponent. This combo may not work this time. His trade policies didn't bring results, and people may see through his cruel immigration scams. DACA has support. With Trump's failures to control the virus leading to economic meltdown, the midwest blue wall may be repaired.

Minnesota checks in in polling. It ain't pretty for the President.

Quote:According to the poll, President Trump has a job approval rating in the state of Minnesota at 42% approve and 56% disapprove. 83% of Republicans approve of the job the President is doing while 84% of Democrats disapprove.  The elected official Minnesotans approve of the most at this time is Governor Tim Walz who earns a 61%-37% approval split. One third of Republicans in the poll indicated that they approve of the job Walz has done as Governor.  Minnesota’s two Senators also receive positive marks with Amy Klobuchar at 55%-36% and Tina Smith at 46%-36%.



Voters were asked about the guilt of the four officers charged in the death of George Floyd and most have an opinion.  51% indicated that they believe all four charged Minneapolis police officers are guilty while 29% said only Derek Chauvin is guilty and 4% said that none of the officers are guilty. 55% of voters approve of the decision to put Attorney General Keith Ellison in charge of the prosecution of the four officers while 34% disapprove.



When asked about recent protests around the country, 60% of Minnesota voters have a somewhat or mostly positive view of the protests while 36% have a somewhat or mostly negative view. 57% approve of the Black Lives Matter movement while 38% disapprove.



There is broad approval for the local police departments of voters.  68% approve of the job performance of their local police department with 17% disapproving. When asked specifically about the Minneapolis police department, 62% indicated that the department should be reformed, 9% want the department defunded, 8% said demilitarized, 7% want it disbanded, and 14% feel that no change is needed. 23% of Republicans feel that no change is needed while 6% say disband, 4% say demilitarize, 2% say defund and 64% say reformed.  6% of Democrats feel that no change is needed while 17% say defund, 9% say disband, 10% say demilitarize and 58% say reformed. 65% of independents want the department reformed and 5% want the department disbanded.



This poll was conducted by Gravis Marketing, a nonpartisan research p2p texting and data firm. This poll of 600 registered voters in Minnesota was conducted on June 19th and has a margin of error of ±4%. This survey was conducted using interactive voice responses and an online panel of cell phone users.  This poll was not commissioned by any campaign committee or other organization and was paid for by Gravis Marketing.  Results are weighted by voting demographics.  Questions can be directed to the managing partner of Gravis Marketing, Doug Kaplan.

Minnesota (June 19, 2020)

https://www.gravismarketing.com/gravis-m...l-results/

(06-19-2020, 11:16 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-19-2020, 12:59 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-18-2020, 07:49 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]I googled boogaloo and found out it is a right wing group that wants civil war. I wonder if Classic Xer is parroting his dear leader Trump who is fomenting the idea that recent riots are caused by antifa.

Why would a group that wants to start a civil war or a race war target a couple security guards of a federal building instead of targeting a bunch of LW protestors like they would do to achieve their goal?

Why? Because killing Federal officers gets the RW 2nd Amendment types up in arms -- literally.  And they aren't "security guards" in the sense of mall cops.  Guarding Federal facilities is the job of the Federal Protective Services -- a part of the US government.  They are licensed officers.

Classic-Xer Wrote:According to the article that Dave posted which was pretty vague and inconclusive like most press releases are that are that are hot of the press and latched on to and posted by a liberal because it mentioned FBI concerns about RW extremist groups becoming more active which matches concerns that I've expressed to you guys. America itself will most likely opt to arm up and sit it out as you and them kill and inflict damage on each other and wait to defeat the victor. America itself ain't dumb.

What we're seeing is rampant paranoia, with guns added for full measure. If this erupts into violence, and the gun crowd out of fear from their unarmed neighbors decide to turn this into a bloodbath, you will see the Martial Law you seem to crave. It won't be pretty for the armed-to-the-teeth crowd.

Boy are you way off track with the your understanding of the RW, 2nd Amendment folks and what it is that gets them all up in arms these days? Nope, they're weren't your typical light security mall cops like the liberal Democrats seem prefer and want to replace most of our city cops with these days. Those were our kind of our RW cops that a couple of your LW radicals gunned down in cold blood that caught the attention of the FBI who as we know as concerned about stepping up and doing the job that liberal Democrats either willingly refuse to do or afraid to do due to their relatively close political ties with the Left these day or fears of their cozy blue being basically over run and looted those we seen on TV. Right now, the American right is still recognized as being the authority and the upholders of American law and defenders of the US Constitution, American establishment and all its people/citizens and it's government. In all the years of of us posting, I've rarely seen an American view, an American position or an understanding or an acceptance or an embrace of American values and the American way of life. Whether we split or go to war and take part in a major bloodbath is largely on the Democrats ability to keep the peace and resolve their major problems. You don't speak for me or the American government. You speak for yourself, the Left and the kind of government that the Left prefers to have instead of ours and once that becomes apparent to most Americans these days, the more we are going see more of what we've seen taking place (the spirals of large scale violence) in blue cities since Obama entered his second term in office and tried to move America backwards to a time when the big government related Democrats/ the old social conservative Democrats pretty much called the shots.

(06-20-2020, 06:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]Right now, the American right is still recognized as being the authority and the upholders of American law and defenders of the US Constitution, American establishment and all its people/citizens and it's government.

Not really.  If I or the government had any problem, it would not be the militias that I or they would turn to.  The red and blue folks care about different parts of the Constitution, that’s all.  As long as the militias are allowed to keep their guns, I see them as a force in being staying quiet out in the boondocks.  They may well even be correct by the founding father’s wisdom.  At the time the Constitution was written, the founding fathers didn’t know of any weapons that would be a threat, so they guaranteed a right to own and carry them.  Maybe this needs to be tweaked?  But other than that one obviously obsolete part, they are not much for protecting the people.  Their own rights, sure.  They are apathetic about others.

Well, they somehow got the idea that a family of tourists was Antifa, and cut down some trees to protect their civilization.  Im not sure how that preserves the Constitution.  They were countered by a handful of locals with chain saws and a sheriff’s deputy.  The 82nd Airborne wasn’t needed.

It is in urban areas where the racist and violent bad cops have failed in what is written in the Constitution.  It is there that the protestors are fighting the real battle.

(06-20-2020, 06:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]Boy are you way off track with the your understanding of the RW, 2nd Amendment folks and what it is that gets them all up in arms these days? Nope, they're weren't your typical light security mall cops like the liberal Democrats seem prefer and want to replace most of our city cops with these days.

Hardly. The "mall cops"  are often rejects from police forces. They are ill-trained, and they rarely are suited to dealing with violent crime. The mall cops usually detect and apprehend shoplifters.  They typically have no authority beyond  the stores that they defend (which includes the parking lot. 

Quote:Those were our kind of our RW cops that a couple of your LW radicals gunned down in cold blood that caught the attention of the FBI who as we know as concerned about stepping up and doing the job that liberal Democrats either willingly refuse to do or afraid to do due to their relatively close political ties with the Left these day or fears of their cozy blue being basically over run and looted those we seen on TV.

Once someone kills a cop, politics no longer matter. That should be obvious. 

Quote:Right now, the American right is still recognized as being the authority and the upholders of American law and defenders of the US Constitution, American establishment and all its people/citizens and it's government.

I do not trust the Hard Right with my civil liberties. Donald Trump has lost all credibility about defending the rights that Americans have. So much about the Second Amendment... I am more concerned about the First. Oh, by the way -- gun rights were well protected for Germans in good standing with the Nazi Party in the Devil's Reich. Of course, there was no freedom of speech, religion, or the press; no defense against warrantless search and seizure; no protection against arbitrary arrest; no right to objective justice; no security of property; no right to change employment without consent of the employer; no meaningful choice in elections... 

If you want to believe that a conservative politician stands firmly against gun rights -- think of Britain under the late Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. No gun rights!

Quote:In all the years of of us posting, I've rarely seen an American view, an American position or an understanding or an acceptance or an embrace of American values and the American way of life.

The word "American" excuses nothing. Just because a rattlesnake or a tornado is American makes it no better. Our legal system never determines the validity of behavior on the basis of it being "American". Constitutionality is everything; national identity means nothing in jurisprudence..  

Quote:Whether we split or go to war and  take part in a major bloodbath is largely on the Democrats ability to keep the peace and resolve their major problems. You don't speak for me or  the American government.

I don't pretend to speak for you. You have the Constitution all wro9ng.

Quote:You speak for yourself, the Left and the kind of government that the Left prefers to have instead of ours and once that becomes apparent to most Americans these days, the more we are going see more of what we've seen taking place (the spirals of large scale violence) in blue cities since Obama entered his second term in office and tried to move America backwards to a time when the big government related Democrats/ the old social conservative Democrats  pretty much called the shots.

The "Left includes people from moderates to the most extreme Commies (like Stalinists,Maoists, and Trotskyites). The Right ranges from moderates to fascists with murder in their hearts.

CNN has Trump having a bad day in Tulsa.  Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

(06-21-2020, 02:09 AM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]"Right now, the American right is still recognized as being the authority and the upholders of American law and defenders of the US Constitution, American establishment and all its people/citizens and it's government." By who, Classic?

By the Left silly. I've been showing the Left and warning the Left about what's going to happen to them for years.

(06-20-2020, 09:28 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-20-2020, 06:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]Boy are you way off track with the your understanding of the RW, 2nd Amendment folks and what it is that gets them all up in arms these days? Nope, they're weren't your typical light security mall cops like the liberal Democrats seem prefer and want to replace most of our city cops with these days.

Hardly. The "mall cops"  are often rejects from police forces. They are ill-trained, and they rarely are suited to dealing with violent crime. The mall cops usually detect and apprehend shoplifters.  They typically have no authority beyond  the stores that they defend (which includes the parking lot. 

Quote:Those were our kind of our RW cops that a couple of your LW radicals gunned down in cold blood that caught the attention of the FBI who as we know as concerned about stepping up and doing the job that liberal Democrats either willingly refuse to do or afraid to do due to their relatively close political ties with the Left these day or fears of their cozy blue being basically over run and looted those we seen on TV.

Once someone kills a cop, politics no longer matter. That should be obvious. 

Quote:Right now, the American right is still recognized as being the authority and the upholders of American law and defenders of the US Constitution, American establishment and all its people/citizens and it's government.

I do not trust the Hard Right with my civil liberties. Donald Trump has lost all credibility about defending the rights that Americans have. So much about the Second Amendment... I am more concerned about the First. Oh, by the way -- gun rights were well protected for Germans in good standing with the Nazi Party in the Devil's Reich. Of course, there was no freedom of speech, religion, or the press; no defense against warrantless search and seizure; no protection against arbitrary arrest; no right to objective justice; no security of property; no right to change employment without consent of the employer; no meaningful choice in elections... 

If you want to believe that a conservative politician stands firmly against gun rights -- think of Britain under the late Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. No gun rights!

Quote:In all the years of of us posting, I've rarely seen an American view, an American position or an understanding or an acceptance or an embrace of American values and the American way of life.

The word "American" excuses nothing. Just because a rattlesnake or a tornado is American makes it no better. Our legal system never determines the validity of behavior on the basis of it being "American". Constitutionality is everything; national identity means nothing in jurisprudence..  

Quote:Whether we split or go to war and  take part in a major bloodbath is largely on the Democrats ability to keep the peace and resolve their major problems. You don't speak for me or  the American government.

I don't pretend to speak for you. You have the Constitution all wro9ng.

Quote:You speak for yourself, the Left and the kind of government that the Left prefers to have instead of ours and once that becomes apparent to most Americans these days, the more we are going see more of what we've seen taking place (the spirals of large scale violence) in blue cities since Obama entered his second term in office and tried to move America backwards to a time when the big government related Democrats/ the old social conservative Democrats  pretty much called the shots.

The "Left includes people from moderates to the most extreme Commies (like Stalinists,Maoists, and Trotskyites). The Right ranges from moderates to fascists with murder in their hearts.

You forget that the Nazi's/fascists were a radical Leftist group too so you may as well add them to the mix competing for power on today's Left as well. I mean, all idiots like you and others here are doing is perpetuating and feeding ignorance and increasing the risk of greater violence and burning more bridges with the American right.

(06-19-2020, 11:58 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Yep. Those militias will find themselves overwhelmed by the Marine Corps, the Seals, the 82nd and 101st Airborne Units...

Boy are you dumb and way off as far as your understanding of the relationship between them and today's American right. You don't seem to understand that we'll be on the same team during a war with the Left and the rules of engagement will be much different and way more lax than the rules are now.

Like I've said, you better wise up fast or you may find yourself without a race, a cop, an army and a country to turn to during times of need and may find yourself being strung up or looted by some mob of crazy or power hungry extremists while the American right is busy mobilizing its population for war. You forget or don't understand that the American right is pro American or what I often refer to as hardcore American these days. Like I said, how bad things get for people like you largely depends on what the liberal Democrats do/ don't do/ fail to do or refuse to do right now.

(06-20-2020, 01:53 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]White racism and white identity politics may be losing its appeal among white voters, with the support which black lives matter and police reform is getting in the country now. Trump's unique combo of America first on trade and immigration and non-intervention plus the white identity appeal boosted Trump in the swing states against a weak Democratic opponent. This combo may not work this time. His trade policies didn't bring results, and people may see through his cruel immigration scams. DACA has support. With Trump's failures to control the virus leading to economic meltdown, the midwest blue wall may be repaired.

Yep. White racism and white identity politics has been losing its appeal among white voters for many years as minority racism and minority identity politics has been increasing among minority voters across the country. So, where does that leave you, the liberal Democrats and them right now? You know my feelings about idiots like you, the worthless/clueless liberal Democrats and racist idiots like them and you know that I don't give two shits about what happens to any of them at this point.

(06-20-2020, 06:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]Boy are you way off track with the your understanding of the RW, 2nd Amendment folks and what it is that gets them all up in arms these days? Nope, they're weren't your typical light security mall cops like the liberal Democrats seem prefer and want to replace most of our city cops with these days. Those were our kind of our RW cops that a couple of your LW radicals gunned down in cold blood that caught the attention of the FBI who as we know as concerned about stepping up and doing the job that liberal Democrats either willingly refuse to do or afraid to do due to their relatively close political ties with the Left these day or fears of their cozy blue being basically over run and looted those we seen on TV.

The perpetrators in this case were identified as Boogaloo Bois. The individuals are white supremacists and their loosely affiliated group is extreme RW. That's according to the FBII, not me.

Classic-Xer Wrote:Right now, the American right is still recognized as being the authority and the upholders of American law and defenders of the US Constitution, American establishment and all its people/citizens and it's government. In all the years of of us posting, I've rarely seen an American view, an American position or an understanding or an acceptance or an embrace of American values and the American way of life. Whether we split or go to war and  take part in a major bloodbath is largely on the Democrats ability to keep the peace and resolve their major problems.

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back. And ICYMI: what qualifies as American has more to do with "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" than you care to admit. Thundering around with firearms and claiming you're being oppressed doesn't fit the bill.

Classic-Xer Wrote:You don't speak for me or  the American government. You speak for yourself, the Left and the kind of government that the Left prefers to have instead of ours and once that becomes apparent to most Americans these days, the more we are going see more of what we've seen taking place (the spirals of large scale violence) in blue cities since Obama entered his second term in office and tried to move America backwards to a time when the big government related Democrats/ the old social conservative Democrats  pretty much called the shots.

You guys ran the show for roughly 5 decades, and things are much worse now than they were then -- even allowing for the Dixiecrat control that never let up from the previous saeculum. Every other OECD country is doing much better. It's our turn, and we're damn well tired of waiting!

(06-21-2020, 02:46 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-20-2020, 01:53 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]White racism and white identity politics may be losing its appeal among white voters, with the support which black lives matter and police reform is getting in the country now. Trump's unique combo of America first on trade and immigration and non-intervention plus the white identity appeal boosted Trump in the swing states against a weak Democratic opponent. This combo may not work this time. His trade policies didn't bring results, and people may see through his cruel immigration scams. DACA has support. With Trump's failures to control the virus leading to economic meltdown, the midwest blue wall may be repaired.

Yep. White racism and white identity politics has been losing its appeal among white voters for many years as minority racism and minority identity politics has been increasing among minority voters across the country. So, where does that leave you, the liberal Democrats and them right now? You know my feelings about idiots like you, the worthless/clueless liberal Democrats and racist idiots like them and you know that I don't give two shits about what happens to any of them at this point.

I wonder what you think of these "violent, un-American clueless godless racists "
https://flm2020.weebly.com/
Faith Leaders March:
Reckoning with our Past and Embracing our Future Together
To express the faith community’s solidarity with Black Lives Matter Movement by acknowledging various denominations’ and traditions’ complicity in sustaining racism and validating white privilege and by extension historical stances and current policies in regard to homo/transphobia, misogyny, white American nationalism, single-issue politics, etc.​
The proposed prayer is a silent/listening/witnessing prayer in which participants will walk from Temple Emanu-EL to Antioch Baptist Church. Along the way participants will pause at predetermined locations to pray. In between locations participants will take on a reflective mood by walking in silence.

All the people Classic Xer doesn't give two shits about, all in one place today. cool!
https://www.june2020.org/

Those people congregating online today are mostly the poor people and leaders of movements and groups, not so much the politicians. I don't know what motivates Classic Xer, really. Several things. Self-reliance is a good virtue. Self-responsibility too. We can improve our lives by using and expanding our consciousness and abilities. It's a matter of balance. The Republicans hold up self-reliance as the only valid economic virtue, and obedience to tradition the only moral or spiritual one. I disagree.

In my experience, the bosses, whether profit or non-profit, could always find some reason to fire me or some of my friends. Bosses don't care about anything but their power and money, as a rule. To allow them to oppress us and keep us in poverty on the rationale of self-reliance causes a society where 40% or more of the people are poor and only a few are rich. But society in this condition will not survive, nor is it a worthwhile society in which to live. We all depend on each other, and when 40% of the people are suffering in the midst of riches, our society is in danger. Self-reliance is great, but so is compassion, justice, and competent thought and awareness. So is democracy in the workplace, and everyplace.

It's interesting that just like Occupy, and the Parkland students, this "poor people's campaign for moral revival" claims to be non-partisan, even though they ask people to vote and voice the same stances as progressive Democrats do. They try to avoid being labeled by people like Classic Xer, because politics is devalued the way Classic Xer devalues it. That will not work; people today need to be partisan.

(06-21-2020, 01:45 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]You forget that the Nazi's/fascists were a radical Leftist group too so you may as well add them to the mix competing for power on today's Left as well. I mean, all idiots like you and others here are doing is perpetuating and feeding ignorance and increasing the risk of greater violence and burning more bridges with the American right.

They may be ex-Leftists who found out that selling out the working class to tycoons and large land-owners is more lucrative than sticking with left-wing causes. But that said, they are ex-Leftists. They may be rogues too extreme or violent for Socialists who may prefer to work within the system by seeking votes and parliamentary seats instead of revolution.  Want to see the sparks fly? Pit social democrats against Commies. The social democrats want nothing to do with the "dictatorship of the proletariat". 

Take note that the Far Right is far more likely to adopt the revolutionary rhetoric of the Far Left in an effort to pull off some socialists who don;t think enough to recognize the deviation from the more conventional socialists. Fascists often offer the "vertical trade union" in which everyone in the same industry has a common interest for being in mining, agriculture, vehicle manufacture, retailing, banking, etc. Thus a steelworker supposedly has more in common with the tycoon who owns the steel mill than with the lumberjack in the wood-products business.  (In practice, the only way for such to work is for the tycoons and executives to wield even more crushing power than one would expect in a broadly-libertarian society. Such is fascist corporatism, and it inevitably works well for economic elites than for workers. 

Classic X'er, you do not fully understand extremist politics. You fail to recognize the dangers of extremism, Left and Right, and you conflate moderate Leftists like me with Josef Stalin, Mao Zedong, and Pol Pot.