Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory

(06-30-2020, 12:05 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Seems like your guy is the one cozying up to Putin and Jing. Like looking the other way while Russia pays the taliban to shoot our soldiers. I don't know what "farm" Obama is supposed to have given up. Perhaps you can enlighten me. Fat chance ha ha.

I hadn't heard Trump using "Bumbling Biden." Is that you nickname? Perhaps you should send it to Trump. Might get him re-elected yet!

Yes. It always seems that way again to idiots who don't understand Trump or understand his direct ties to the most powerful country on Earth. Putin ain't shit to Trump. Putin is nothing more than a pain in the ass right now.

(06-30-2020, 12:05 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-29-2020, 10:37 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-28-2020, 10:57 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]Yep. You are free to call me a racist or associate me with racism. You're lucky I let it slide and associate it with pure stupidity on your part because I can sue you and prove I'm not racist in court and clean you out so to speak. I've got the capital and the connections to teach you a nasty lesson about life. You have to be more careful these days. Yes, the Marxists have a bad track record and the Democrats have a bad track record as we've seen several times lately so you are kind of screwed either way at this point.

Countering a supposed insult of racism with an equally slanderous insult of Marxism doesn't do much for your civil case.

The burden of proof would  be on him in an American court. He'd have to prove that I'm racist to get off. Now, he could sue me for calling him a Marxist if he feels that he isn't one at all and knows that he doesn't have a history with Marxism  or affiliations with any Marxists or Marxist groups these days but that would be really stupid  of him to do in my opinion.

I have affiliations with liberal groups (like Unitarian-Universalism, or environmental organizations, or I have donated twice in small amounts to the Southern Poverty Law Center), but certainly not with any avowedly Marxist groups; you'd have a hard time with that one. Well, some Greens claim to be "socialists" these days, but I am not registered Green right now. But "Marxist" per se? That's pretty rare to find anyway. You would have trouble labeling anyone that in a lawsuit. It's not like McCarthy could do in the early 1950s.

But for my charge against you, all I would have to do is quote what you have said in recent posts to prove my case.

In any case, I don't think there's any law against calling someone a racist or a Marxist anyway.

(06-30-2020, 12:05 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Seems like your guy is the one cozying up to Putin and Jing. Like looking the other way while Russia pays the taliban to shoot our soldiers. I don't know what "farm" Obama is supposed to have given up. Perhaps you can enlighten me. Fat chance ha ha.

I hadn't heard Trump using "Bumbling Biden." Is that you nickname? Perhaps you should send it to Trump. Might get him re-elected yet!

That's my nickname for Sleepy Joe. Obama spent years looking the other way as American troops were being killed by Iranian backed militia in Iraq. He didn't care about that as he working out a shady deal ( a large transfer of cash to the largest sponsor of terrorism) with the not so trustworthy Iranian Government and also working on a deal with the corrupt and worthless government of Iraq to fulfill a campaign promise that he made to the Left that Americans weren't aware of at the time he was elected. We all thought he wouldn't be dumb enough to do it which he proved wrong. Obama gave up the farm in Iraq. I'm sorry dude but liberals are all self serving, self righteous morons these days. Dude, when the national (natural) split comes, I hope that your side is stronger than it looks to us today. If not, you're in big trouble.

(06-30-2020, 12:27 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]I have affiliations with liberal groups (like Unitarian-Universalism, or environmental organizations, or I have donated twice in small amounts to the Southern Poverty Law Center), but certainly not with any avowedly Marxist groups; you'd have a hard time with that one. Well, some Greens claim to be "socialists" these days, but I am not registered Green right now. But "Marxist" per se? That's pretty rare to find anyway. You would have trouble labeling anyone that in a lawsuit. It's not like McCarthy could do in the early 1950s.

But for my charge against you, all I would have to do is quote what you have said in recent posts to prove my case.

In any case, I don't think there's any law against calling someone a racist or a Marxist anyway.

Oh, there are laws against calling people racists who aren't racists and there are other serious repercussions for doing it as well. Hint, if its socialist, Communist or Fascist it's Marxist influenced. If it's liberal, it's most likely funded by Marxists or Marxist believers or Marxist followers or Marxist groups these days. As far as I know, there is no law against calling you a Marxist or associating you with Marxism. Personally, I think we are getting pretty close to repeating history (McCarthy era) again. Of coarse, the difference will be that the government won't be as involved this time. I don't think you understand that if the liberal Democrats won't do anything about them or stop them, America itself is going to start shooting them and beating the shit out of them. I see an ugly world coming dude.

(06-30-2020, 01:41 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-30-2020, 12:27 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]I have affiliations with liberal groups (like Unitarian-Universalism, or environmental organizations, or I have donated twice in small amounts to the Southern Poverty Law Center), but certainly not with any avowedly Marxist groups; you'd have a hard time with that one. Well, some Greens claim to be "socialists" these days, but I am not registered Green right now. But "Marxist" per se? That's pretty rare to find anyway. You would have trouble labeling anyone that in a lawsuit. It's not like McCarthy could do in the early 1950s.

But for my charge against you, all I would have to do is quote what you have said in recent posts to prove my case.

In any case, I don't think there's any law against calling someone a racist or a Marxist anyway.

Oh, there are laws against calling people racists who aren't racists and there are other serious repercussions for doing it as well. Hint, if its socialist, Communist or Fascist it's Marxist influenced. If it's liberal, it's most likely funded by Marxists or Marxist believers or Marxist followers or Marxist groups these days.  As far as I know, there is no law against calling you a Marxist or associating you with Marxism. Personally, I think we are getting pretty close to repeating history (McCarthy era) again. Of coarse, the difference will be that the government won't be as involved this time. I don't think you understand that if the liberal Democrats won't do anything about them or stop them, America itself is going to start shooting them and beating the shit out of them. I see an ugly world coming dude.

I’m not worried about it.  For decades, the internet partisans have been at it, calling any Democrat Marxist and every Republican fascist.  If every bit of internet name calling called for a judge to settle the insulted party, the judges would be absurdly busy.  I figure Classic’s threats of legal action are as empty as his threats of violence.  Lots of bark, no bite.

But whether you call them Robber Barons, the Military Industrial Complex, the one percent, the elites or the owners of the means of production, the very rich few remain a problem.  We have a problem with division of wealth.  Under one name or another, the problematic people with too much influence over the government are a problem.

I just don’t think a violent revolution is the best way to solve it, as Marx did.  Lenin, Stalin and Mao illustrate why.  It doesn’t work.

Come to think of it, if the Tea Party strove to get the Republican Establishment out of the GOP, if you took Classic’s propensity to promote violence seriously, who is the Marxist here?

Was Marx an American?

Karl, I mean. Groucho was definitely American.

(06-30-2020, 03:30 AM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]Actually i think i know more about what goes on in your country than it may seem. I never said covid brought you guys together. You guys are tearing yourselves apart. However i can always learn something new about the USA and one thing that was new info was that people do not care unless its a white cop killing a black person. Can the democrats here please explain this? I wonder why you are ok with resorting to physical violence but have issues with people destroying property? Perhaps you have needs that you think are necessary to resort to violence if pushed, but do not see it as needed when pushed for others because you do not see or share their same needs? Btw i know it is a belated response. I am still trying to settle down in Europe and so i have been very busy.

The destruction of property is still viewed as illegal by most of the people who live in the USA. The liberal Democrats refuse to enforce basic American laws that most still highly value in this country. They refuse to do much about crime and illegal immigration/immigrants in their cities these days. Personally, I don't care what their problem is or what excuse they use or make for doing it either. Eric seems to think that everything evolves around racism or involves racism. He seems to view everything that we and others do or say about him, the liberal Democrats, the Left or some black or some Hispanic or some mixed raced people or some immigrants or some Marxist group that's negative is racist for some dumb reason these days. It's a nice crutch but that's all it is to those who are sharp enough to see it for what it is these day.
I don't live in a big city like most people in Minnesota these days. We live outside of them. You don't seem like the type who would have an issue with people stepping up and defending their property when government officials refuse to do what's expected of them when it's comes to stopping mobs of violent people and criminals like we've seen and done lately. I think the liberal

Democrats forget that they have a responsibility/obligation to us, the safety of our communities and the lives of our people too. We hear a lot about our responsibility/obligation to them, their poor and funding their programs and their communities. I don't think they realize that during all the hoopla that went down in Minneapolis, a significant portion of our cops were sent to Minneapolis to support the Minneapolis police and keep them from being over run and keep their neighborhoods safe until the Minnesota National Guard was completely mobilized and sent in to reestablish law and order and end large scale looting and destruction of property. One of these times, the Left is going to fuck up and injure a bunch of decent people and the gloves are going to come off and the guns are going to come out and there's going to be liberal bodies scattered all over and liberals bodies laying in hospitals all over the place too. I know America and the America that I know is not going to be understanding or nice at all once the gloves are off. You see, the American right doesn't need permission from it's government to deal with an obvious threat to it while the political inbreds and morons in DC are busy playing political games with each other.

(06-30-2020, 04:09 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I’m not worried about it.  For decades, the internet partisans have been at it, calling any Democrat Marxist and every Republican fascist.  If every bit of internet name calling called for a judge to settle the insulted party, the judges would be absurdly busy.  I figure Classic’s threats of legal action are as empty as his threats of violence.  Lots of bark, no bite.

But whether you call them Robber Barons, the Military Industrial Complex, the one percent, the elites or the owners of the means of production, the very rich few remain a problem.  We have a problem with division of wealth.  Under one name or another, the problematic people with too much influence over the government are a problem.

I just don’t think a violent revolution is the best way to solve it, as Marx did.  Lenin, Stalin and Mao illustrate why.  It doesn’t work.

Come to think of it, if the Tea Party strove to get the Republican Establishment out of the GOP, if you took Classic’s propensity to promote violence seriously, who is the Marxist here?

Was Marx an American?

Karl, I mean.  Groucho was definitely American.

Nope. You don't have to worry about it. You've got an obvious mental disorder and often come across to others as delusional. I might surprise you though and go after Eric and teach him a lesson about being stupid these days. I got into a major disagreement with a biased moderator a while ago and he banned me to protect his own ass like a typical liberal does these days. Well, he's gone and so is the website that he worked for and managed back then. Coincidence??? Maybe???? Maybe not??? I've always thought filing lawsuits and using lawyers to fight personal battles/vendetta's was for pussies who lacked the balls to fight themselves and deal with emotional shit like rejection or failure themselves. I'm a political figure/personality of sorts which means you and others are free to call me a racist because I accepted that role and stuff like that goes with the territory so to speak.

(06-30-2020, 08:19 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-30-2020, 04:09 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I’m not worried about it.  For decades, the internet partisans have been at it, calling any Democrat Marxist and every Republican fascist.  If every bit of internet name calling called for a judge to settle the insulted party, the judges would be absurdly busy.  I figure Classic’s threats of legal action are as empty as his threats of violence.  Lots of bark, no bite.

But whether you call them Robber Barons, the Military Industrial Complex, the one percent, the elites or the owners of the means of production, the very rich few remain a problem.  We have a problem with division of wealth.  Under one name or another, the problematic people with too much influence over the government are a problem.

I just don’t think a violent revolution is the best way to solve it, as Marx did.  Lenin, Stalin and Mao illustrate why.  It doesn’t work.

Come to think of it, if the Tea Party strove to get the Republican Establishment out of the GOP, if you took Classic’s propensity to promote violence seriously, who is the Marxist here?

Was Marx an American?

Karl, I mean.  Groucho was definitely American.

Nope. You don't have to worry about it. You've got an obvious  mental disorder and often come across to others as delusional. I might surprise you though and go after Eric and teach him a lesson about being stupid these days. I got into a major disagreement with a biased moderator a while ago and he banned me to protect his own ass like a typical liberal does these days. Well, he's gone and so is the website that he worked for and managed back then. Coincidence??? Maybe???? Maybe not??? I've always thought filing lawsuits and using lawyers to fight personal battles/vendetta's was for pussies who lacked the balls to fight themselves and  deal with emotional shit like rejection or failure  themselves.

This is the end of the line for me.
https://sirota.substack.com/p/trumps-cov...-may-force

Drump's no friend of the working class, sorry, I'll take senility over outright class hatred on the part of Drump anytime.

Fuck Trump!  May he eat shit and die.

(06-30-2020, 03:30 AM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]Actually i think i know more about what goes on in your country than it may seem. I never said covid brought you guys together. You guys are tearing yourselves apart. However i can always learn something new about the USA and one thing that was new info was that people do not care unless its a white cop killing a black person. Can the democrats here please explain this? I wonder why you are ok with resorting to physical violence but have issues with people destroying property? Perhaps you have needs that you think are necessary to resort to violence if pushed, but do not see it as needed when pushed for others because you do not see or share their same needs? Btw i know it is a belated response. I am still trying to settle down in Europe and so i have been very busy.

We're not tearing ourselves apart yet, we're just splitting further apart right now.

(06-30-2020, 08:24 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: [ -> ]This is the end of the line for me.
https://sirota.substack.com/p/trumps-cov...-may-force

Drump's no friend of the working class, sorry, I'll take senility over outright class hatred on the part of Drump anytime.

Fuck Trump!  May he eat shit and die.

So, how much does a test cost these days? You should probably know that, you should probably know if the amount is viewed as affordable by most Americans these day before you post stuff like this and try to make an issue of it.

(06-30-2020, 03:30 AM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-23-2020, 10:41 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-23-2020, 12:32 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-23-2020, 12:18 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-23-2020, 11:47 AM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]I see. Thank you for answering. Btw, Eric, why state Classic is racist? Where has he shown he is racist? I have not so far seen one post of his that shows this. He threatens with violence constantly, but never have i seen a post that shows he is racist. The one who goes on about racism like a broken record is you. It is rampant in your country by what i have seen, but you are throwing daggers at those as it seems towards the wrong person.

He does not directly comment on race, but tends to be all in favor of the violent racist cops and against the protestors.  It kind of puts him on the wrong side.

Does not make him racist though. He may also be against how it is being carried out. Though i am surprised he is for the cops if true as i did not think he would be for something that is against the constitution. I thought that free speech is a protected right in the USA. Unless as i stated, he is against how the protest is taking place. We need to also consider that under certain circumstances by the sounds of what he has said if he feels his rights are being taken away from him he will fight for his rights. Even with guns if necessary. Which makes it interesting if he is against others fighting for theirs. I look forward to what his statement is on this. Can you clear this up, Classic?

I don't have the right to destroy public or private property that upsets me or the right to rob people and loot stores or the to block off/shut down a freeway system and so forth like other law abiding people who live in this country. I don't have a problem with free speech or a problem with peaceful protests or a problem watching a bunch of Democratic women walking around and looking silly with pink vaginas hats on their heads and acting like all their American rights were taken away or acting like they're all some how or another being oppressed.

You don't seem to know much about the US or the growing political divide here. Covid19 didn't bring us together and the latest thingy that happened in my state isn't going to bring us together after all the shit that went on during and afterwards and is still going on in some places today's. You see, about half the country are done with the Left and their Democrats all together, about a quarter of it are stilling clinging to a working class party that no longer exists and about a quarter of it are done with the country, hate the countr  for whatever reason and want to destroy it and start over from scratch. It's not racism that's dividing us these days.

I could give to shits about the color of a persons skin and give two shits about the color of a cop victims skin or the about the color of a cops skin either. In America, white cops killing black dudes makes big drama and increases rating. It's funny, in the liberal world, blacks can kill each other by the thousands and abort each other by the millions but if a white cop happens to kill one we all have to know about it and the world has to know about it too. But, we don't know or hear a damn thing when a Hispanic cop or an Asian cop or a black cop kills one them. one of their own  or one of us or a criminal kills a cop. As far as violence, I will resort to violence like most people and I've made that clear to liberals with dreams of grandeur that include fundamentally changing the United States.

Actually i think i know more about what goes on in your country than it may seem. I never said covid brought you guys together. You guys are tearing yourselves apart. However i can always learn something new about the USA and one thing that was new info was that people do not care unless its a white cop killing a black person. Can the democrats here please explain this? I wonder why you are ok with resorting to physical violence but have issues with people destroying property? Perhaps you have needs that you think are necessary to resort to violence if pushed, but do not see it as needed when pushed for others because you do not see or share their same needs? Btw i know it is a belated response. I am still trying to settle down in Europe and so i have been very busy.

First, I'd like to congratulate New Zealand for a job well done.  As far as the US, there's nothing left, but a warning:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc...ns/610261/ 

As for police problems, I'd say it's the militarization of the police here, assorted dumb thinking like the stuff behind the war on drugs, and here's perhaps a real insight. The US attitude all around is  that of a bully. Examples are our highest per capita incarnation rate, policing for profit, prisoners for profit, and asset forfeiture. We're shot through with this affliction. Neoliberalism is a big reason for this. It's all about the Benjamans and the God is Mammon.

(06-30-2020, 09:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-30-2020, 03:30 AM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]Actually i think i know more about what goes on in your country than it may seem. I never said covid brought you guys together. You guys are tearing yourselves apart. However i can always learn something new about the USA and one thing that was new info was that people do not care unless its a white cop killing a black person. Can the democrats here please explain this? I wonder why you are ok with resorting to physical violence but have issues with people destroying property? Perhaps you have needs that you think are necessary to resort to violence if pushed, but do not see it as needed when pushed for others because you do not see or share their same needs? Btw i know it is a belated response. I am still trying to settle down in Europe and so i have been very busy.

We're not tearing ourselves apart yet, we're just splitting further apart right now.

Or more like the turning is turning.  The old values are illustrated as not working just before the regeneracy.  Before the old values are rejected during the crisis heart and stomped on during the high, Trump is doing a really good job at showing the old ways are obsolete.  In the process he is doing the country real harm, but in the longer term it only cements the new values harder.

While appalled by the mess he is making, in terms of making sure the new values become operational he is doing great.  The gap in the polls becoming ever wider is just a shadow of the shift in values.  The south hitting home with the happy talk strategy to the virus, fighting the will of the people in ending racist violent policing and taking no action to protect the troops are just the latest.  He consistently takes the wrong side if whatever issue he confronts or more pertinently fails to confront.

The senate Republicans wearing masks and advocating them as one way to save lives is among other things the handwriting on the wall.

(06-30-2020, 01:41 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-30-2020, 12:27 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]I have affiliations with liberal groups (like Unitarian-Universalism, or environmental organizations, or I have donated twice in small amounts to the Southern Poverty Law Center), but certainly not with any avowedly Marxist groups; you'd have a hard time with that one. Well, some Greens claim to be "socialists" these days, but I am not registered Green right now. But "Marxist" per se? That's pretty rare to find anyway. You would have trouble labeling anyone that in a lawsuit. It's not like McCarthy could do in the early 1950s.

But for my charge against you, all I would have to do is quote what you have said in recent posts to prove my case.

In any case, I don't think there's any law against calling someone a racist or a Marxist anyway.

Oh, there are laws against calling people racists who aren't racists and there are other serious repercussions for doing it as well. Hint, if its socialist, Communist or Fascist it's Marxist influenced. If it's liberal, it's most likely funded by Marxists or Marxist believers or Marxist followers or Marxist groups these days.  As far as I know, there is no law against calling you a Marxist or associating you with Marxism. Personally, I think we are getting pretty close to repeating history (McCarthy era) again. Of coarse, the difference will be that the government won't be as involved this time. I don't think you understand that if the liberal Democrats won't do anything about them or stop them, America itself is going to start shooting them and beating the shit out of them. I see an ugly world coming dude.

McCarthy was on your side, and doing the same thing as you are doing. Do you have no sense of decency?

There's no such law. Anyone who defends confederate monuments is a racist and a traitor. And socialism existed before Marxism. He is far from the only inspiration for liberal ideas. He contributed a lot of scholarship and historical perspective to our understanding of capitalism and the working class, and his manifesto sparked a movement. But that movement was hijacked by tyrants, as often happens with revolutions. The Soviets and Maoists were just instituting another reign of terror. So Marxism per se has virtually no presence in the USA; some still in Europe, as well as a few remaining communist states. Actually, liberals are just mostly responding to the needs of the time, and are the ones who call for solutions, whatever workable ones might be available; while the conservatives like you just help prop up the problems. No overarching theory is needed just to call for solutions and liberation from tyrants and bosses, whether they be business bosses like you or the Koch Brothers or the Mercers, or political bosses like Trump, Xi Jinping, Assad or Duterte.

It is ludricrous to claim "Marxists" are funding whatever is liberal. Many foolish conspiracy theorists call George Soros a communist who is behind every scheme for world government. Are you joining the Alex Jones crowd now? Or should we call you General Ripper? No, George Soros funded ANTI-communist movements in Eastern Europe and helped bring down the Iron Curtain. Conservatives hate him because he funds liberal Democrats in their campaigns such as Hillary Clinton's. But that is virtuous, and what is true is that all liberals like me with email addresses are bombarded today with pleas for money. Soros is just one of them who can afford to answer them.

When you go on about Marxism, you are General Ripper. Is he your hero? Is he on your level of sanity?





Although you talk about shooting the communists and beating the shit outta them, thankfully you can't launch a nuclear war against them.

Are our divisions and conflicts rooted in our personal insecurities, such as male sexual inadequacy?

(06-30-2020, 12:46 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-30-2020, 12:05 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Seems like your guy is the one cozying up to Putin and Jing. Like looking the other way while Russia pays the taliban to shoot our soldiers. I don't know what "farm" Obama is supposed to have given up. Perhaps you can enlighten me. Fat chance ha ha.

I hadn't heard Trump using "Bumbling Biden." Is that you nickname? Perhaps you should send it to Trump. Might get him re-elected yet!

That's my nickname for Sleepy Joe. Obama spent years looking the other way as American troops were being killed by Iranian backed militia in Iraq. He didn't care about that as he working out a shady deal ( a large transfer of cash to the largest sponsor of terrorism) with the not so trustworthy Iranian Government and also working on a deal with the corrupt and worthless government of Iraq to fulfill a campaign promise that he made to the Left that Americans weren't aware of at the time he was elected. We all thought he wouldn't be dumb enough to do it which he proved wrong. Obama gave up the farm in Iraq. I'm sorry dude but liberals are all self serving, self righteous morons these days. Dude, when the national (natural) split comes, I hope that your side is stronger than it looks to us today. If not, you're in big trouble.

I can play the nickname game, too.

Donald Fredovich Trump (noting that the middle name of a Russian is a patronymic as in "Ivanovich")
Donald Judas (as in Iscariot) Trump
Donald Traitor
Donald Treason
Donald Trash
The Great American Blunder 
Putin's Puppet

Not mine, but

Individual-1
COVIDIOT-19
TRE45SON

.... the Iranian Navy was cooperating with the United States Navy in efforts to suppress piracy off the coast of Somalia. 

I don't know where you get your idea of liberal character... you must not get out much if you live anywhere near Minneapolis.

(06-30-2020, 09:51 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]Or more like the turning is turning.  The old values are illustrated as not working just before the regeneracy.  Before the old values are rejected during the crisis heart and stomped on during the high, Trump is doing a really good job at showing the old ways are obsolete.  In the process he is doing the country real harm, but in the longer term it only cements the new values harder.

While appalled by the mess he is making, in terms of making sure the new values become operational he is doing great.  The gap in the polls becoming ever wider is just a shadow of the shift in values.  The south hitting home with the happy talk strategy to the virus, fighting the will of the people in ending racist violent policing and taking no action to protect the troops are just the latest.  He consistently takes the wrong side if whatever issue he confronts or more pertinently fails to confront.

The senate Republicans wearing masks and advocating them as one way to save lives is among other things the handwriting on the wall.

I don't see a shift from values to no values as good myself. It's true, the old Democratic values aren't working like they should considering all the money that we've been pumping in over the years. Yep. It's time to wait and watch as they're replaced by a mob that has no values.

(06-30-2020, 07:28 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-30-2020, 03:30 AM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]Actually i think i know more about what goes on in your country than it may seem. I never said covid brought you guys together. You guys are tearing yourselves apart. However i can always learn something new about the USA and one thing that was new info was that people do not care unless its a white cop killing a black person. Can the democrats here please explain this? I wonder why you are ok with resorting to physical violence but have issues with people destroying property? Perhaps you have needs that you think are necessary to resort to violence if pushed, but do not see it as needed when pushed for others because you do not see or share their same needs? Btw i know it is a belated response. I am still trying to settle down in Europe and so i have been very busy.

The destruction of property is still viewed as illegal by most of the people who live in the USA. The liberal Democrats refuse to enforce basic American laws that most still highly value in this country. They refuse to do much about crime and illegal immigration/immigrants in their cities these days. Personally, I don't care what their problem is or what excuse they use or make  for doing it either. Eric seems to think that everything evolves around racism or involves racism. He  seems to view everything that  we and  others  do or say about him, the liberal Democrats, the Left or some black or some Hispanic or some mixed raced people or some immigrants or some Marxist group that's negative  is racist for some dumb reason   these days.

Hold on right there. Suppose that you are a a Jew and someone puts up a statue of Adolf Hitler (or of any major Holocaust perpetrator). What would that mean to you? You would want that statue torn down -- fast! That statue effectively vilifies you for being a Jew. 

Maybe the Confederates were not that bad -- but they waged a bloody war to save slavery as an economic practice. Now imagine that you are a descendant of the slaves that those Confederate leaders tried to keep in bondage. The optics are lousy, to put it mildly. Add to this -- those Confederate leaders sacrificed lots of unfortunate young men as victims of an ultimately failed effort to keep black people in bondage. Don't give me the "but not the white ancestors of that black person". In some cases those white ancestors raped a slave woman. Besides, anyone identifiably of African origin, no matter how slight in America, is considered black. 

Confederate "heroes" are the wrong heroes. Put up statues of America's real heroes instead -- like war heroes of World War II. Replace a statue of Jefferson Davis with one of General George Catlett Marshall and you have a win-win situation. (What? You expected me to suggest Vladimir Lenin?)    

Quote:It's a nice crutch but that's all it is to those who are sharp enough to see it for what it is these day.  
I don't live in a big city like most people in Minnesota these days. We live outside of  them. You don't seem like the type who would have an issue with people stepping up and defending their property when government officials refuse to do what's expected of them when it's comes to stopping mobs of violent people and criminals  like we've seen and done lately.

Stop right there. Police have a duty to protect the safety of all Americans, including criminal suspects such as George Floyd. I'm not going to say more about that aside from saying that the Minneapolis police failed to do that job. Major reforms are necessary to ensure that the police do the job, and do it right.  

Quote:I think the liberal Democrats forget that they have a responsibility/obligation  to us, the safety of  our communities and the lives of our people too. We hear a lot about our responsibility/obligation to them, their poor and funding their programs and their communities. I don't think they realize that during all the hoopla that went down in Minneapolis, a significant portion of our cops were sent to Minneapolis to support the Minneapolis police and keep them from being over run and keep their neighborhoods safe until the Minnesota National Guard was completely mobilized and sent in  to reestablish law and order and end large scale looting and destruction of property.

Looting and property destruction are crimes best left to the judgment of courts of law. As for the poor in America, Jesus Himself left some guidance on that:

 https://www.jesusfilm.org/blog-and-stories/jesus-cares-for-poor.html

In case I got your religious heritage wrong:

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/jewish-attitudes-toward-poverty/

you still have no excuse. If you think that the poor are simply people to be treated as expendable objects suitable to abuse, exploitation, and neglect, then any claim that you have of being a decent person is hypocritical in the extreme.

Quote:One of these times, the Left is going to fuck up and injure a bunch of decent people and the gloves are going to come off and the guns are going to come out and there's going to be liberal bodies scattered all over and liberals bodies laying in hospitals all over the place too. I know America and the America that I know is not going to be understanding or nice at all once the gloves are off. You see, the American right doesn't need permission from it's government to deal with an obvious  threat to it while the political inbreds and morons in DC are busy playing political games with each other.

You are suggesting that left-wing terrorism is imminent. The proper approach to terrorism is for law enforcement to apprehend the perpetrator sand courts of criminal law to judge the persons with the possibility of long prison terms. Does anyone really care what the motivations were for the bombers at the Boston Marathon? It was in Boston, so I assume that the crowd exposed to the bombs were largely liberal.  

The solution is not vigilante action against one side of the political spectrum. 

You do not know America. You do not recognize its diversity. You have a narrow definition that means people who think as you do. We liberals, contrary to your myth, have little use for political violence. As for your "Right" -- even it is far from the monolith that you claim that it is. Much of the population that calls itself conservative would expect the government to either put away or blow away anyone who does bad things to people on behalf of some political cause. The vigilante action that you predict is terrorism.  

You practically ask for America to rift on ethnic and political divides analogous to those in Yugoslavia or Rwanda. The time has already run out for that.

(07-01-2020, 12:51 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-30-2020, 12:46 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-30-2020, 12:05 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Seems like your guy is the one cozying up to Putin and Jing. Like looking the other way while Russia pays the taliban to shoot our soldiers. I don't know what "farm" Obama is supposed to have given up. Perhaps you can enlighten me. Fat chance ha ha.

I hadn't heard Trump using "Bumbling Biden." Is that you nickname? Perhaps you should send it to Trump. Might get him re-elected yet!

That's my nickname for Sleepy Joe. Obama spent years looking the other way as American troops were being killed by Iranian backed militia in Iraq. He didn't care about that as he working out a shady deal ( a large transfer of cash to the largest sponsor of terrorism) with the not so trustworthy Iranian Government and also working on a deal with the corrupt and worthless government of Iraq to fulfill a campaign promise that he made to the Left that Americans weren't aware of at the time he was elected. We all thought he wouldn't be dumb enough to do it which he proved wrong. Obama gave up the farm in Iraq. I'm sorry dude but liberals are all self serving, self righteous morons these days. Dude, when the national (natural) split comes, I hope that your side is stronger than it looks to us today. If not, you're in big trouble.

I can play the nickname game, too.

Donald Fredovich Trump (noting that the middle name of a Russian is a patronymic as in "Ivanovich")
Donald Judas (as in Iscariot) Trump
Donald Traitor
Donald Treason
Donald Trash
The Great American Blunder 
Putin's Puppet

Not mine, but

Individual-1
COVIDIOT-19
TRE45SON

.... the Iranian Navy was cooperating with the United States Navy in efforts to suppress piracy off the coast of Somalia. 

I don't know where you get your idea of liberal character... you must not get out much if you live anywhere near Minneapolis.

Hmmm....You don't where I get my idea of liberal character. I dunno, how far do I have to go to see liberals and judge their character these days? Wake up.... You are going to need more than just the liberal Democrats and far left groups to win a national election while a bunch of big cities are falling apart in front of everyone's eyes. So, where is Bumbling Biden? Why is Sleepy Joe laying low when he should be out there playing the role of the White Knight?

(07-01-2020, 01:29 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-30-2020, 07:28 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-30-2020, 03:30 AM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]Actually i think i know more about what goes on in your country than it may seem. I never said covid brought you guys together. You guys are tearing yourselves apart. However i can always learn something new about the USA and one thing that was new info was that people do not care unless its a white cop killing a black person. Can the democrats here please explain this? I wonder why you are ok with resorting to physical violence but have issues with people destroying property? Perhaps you have needs that you think are necessary to resort to violence if pushed, but do not see it as needed when pushed for others because you do not see or share their same needs? Btw i know it is a belated response. I am still trying to settle down in Europe and so i have been very busy.

The destruction of property is still viewed as illegal by most of the people who live in the USA. The liberal Democrats refuse to enforce basic American laws that most still highly value in this country. They refuse to do much about crime and illegal immigration/immigrants in their cities these days. Personally, I don't care what their problem is or what excuse they use or make  for doing it either. Eric seems to think that everything evolves around racism or involves racism. He  seems to view everything that  we and  others  do or say about him, the liberal Democrats, the Left or some black or some Hispanic or some mixed raced people or some immigrants or some Marxist group that's negative  is racist for some dumb reason   these days.

Hold on right there. Suppose that you are a a Jew and someone puts up a statue of Adolf Hitler (or of any major Holocaust perpetrator). What would that mean to you? You would want that statue torn down -- fast! That statue effectively vilifies you for being a Jew. 

Maybe the Confederates were not that bad -- but they waged a bloody war to save slavery as an economic practice. Now imagine that you are a descendant of the slaves that those Confederate leaders tried to keep in bondage. The optics are lousy, to put it mildly. Add to this -- those Confederate leaders sacrificed lots of unfortunate young men as victims of an ultimately failed effort to keep black people in bondage. Don't give me the "but not the white ancestors of that black person". In some cases those white ancestors raped a slave woman. Besides, anyone identifiably of African origin, no matter how slight in America, is considered black. 

Confederate "heroes" are the wrong heroes. Put up statues of America's real heroes instead -- like war heroes of World War II. Replace a statue of Jefferson Davis with one of General George Catlett Marshall and you have a win-win situation. (What? You expected me to suggest Vladimir Lenin?)    

Quote:It's a nice crutch but that's all it is to those who are sharp enough to see it for what it is these day.  
I don't live in a big city like most people in Minnesota these days. We live outside of  them. You don't seem like the type who would have an issue with people stepping up and defending their property when government officials refuse to do what's expected of them when it's comes to stopping mobs of violent people and criminals  like we've seen and done lately.

Stop right there. Police have a duty to protect the safety of all Americans, including criminal suspects such as George Floyd. I'm not going to say more about that aside from saying that the Minneapolis police failed to do that job. Major reforms are necessary to ensure that the police do the job, and do it right.  

Quote:I think the liberal Democrats forget that they have a responsibility/obligation  to us, the safety of  our communities and the lives of our people too. We hear a lot about our responsibility/obligation to them, their poor and funding their programs and their communities. I don't think they realize that during all the hoopla that went down in Minneapolis, a significant portion of our cops were sent to Minneapolis to support the Minneapolis police and keep them from being over run and keep their neighborhoods safe until the Minnesota National Guard was completely mobilized and sent in  to reestablish law and order and end large scale looting and destruction of property.

Looting and property destruction are crimes best left to the judgment of courts of law. As for the poor in America, Jesus Himself left some guidance on that:

 https://www.jesusfilm.org/blog-and-stories/jesus-cares-for-poor.html

In case I got your religious heritage wrong:

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/jewish-attitudes-toward-poverty/

you still have no excuse. If you think that the poor are simply people to be treated as expendable objects suitable to abuse, exploitation, and neglect, then any claim that you have of being a decent person is hypocritical in the extreme.

Quote:One of these times, the Left is going to fuck up and injure a bunch of decent people and the gloves are going to come off and the guns are going to come out and there's going to be liberal bodies scattered all over and liberals bodies laying in hospitals all over the place too. I know America and the America that I know is not going to be understanding or nice at all once the gloves are off. You see, the American right doesn't need permission from it's government to deal with an obvious  threat to it while the political inbreds and morons in DC are busy playing political games with each other.

You are suggesting that left-wing terrorism is imminent. The proper approach to terrorism is for law enforcement to apprehend the perpetrator sand courts of criminal law to judge the persons with the possibility of long prison terms. Does anyone really care what the motivations were for the bombers at the Boston Marathon? It was in Boston, so I assume that the crowd exposed to the bombs were largely liberal.  

The solution is not vigilante action against one side of the political spectrum. 

You do not know America. You do not recognize its diversity. You have a narrow definition that means people who think as you do. We liberals, contrary to your myth, have little use for political violence. As for your "Right" -- even it is far from the monolith that you claim that it is. Much of the population that calls itself conservative would expect the government to either put away or blow away anyone who does bad things to people on behalf of some political cause. The vigilante action that you predict is terrorism.  

You practically ask for America to rift on ethnic and political divides analogous to those in Yugoslavia or Rwanda. The time has already run out for that.

How many America blacks, whites, yellows, browns and reds have the same basic American values and rights as me today? I'm suggesting that a clash between Americans of all kinds and the Left-wing is inevitable at this point and once the cultural clash begins it's not going to stop until the Left-wing is destroyed. You are on the wrong side of history and seem to be deaf, dumb and blind too. So, I hope have fun trying to survive an ugly 4T.

We can't put up a statue of our World War II heroes either because the country was still legally segregated during World War II and we have Japanese people living here who might/could get upset or view them as racists. The time is coming for minorities to decide whether they prefer to be viewed as blacks, Hispanics, browns or whatever else forever and ever or whether they prefer to be viewed Americans become part of the country where none of that matters

(07-01-2020, 01:03 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see a shift from values to no values as good myself. It's true, the old Democratic values aren't working like they should considering all the money that we've been pumping  in over the years. Yep. It's time to wait and watch as they're replaced by a mob that has no values.

No values?  Values which you can’t understand or are unwilling to acknowledge is more like it.

COVUS.  Use science.  Value life over dollars.  Acknowledge that while opening up is good for the economy, opening up before the curves are way down, before there is solid testing and tracing, is not good for the economy.  Address the problems, don’t ignore them.

Black Lives Matter:  Equality, justice.  Differentiate between the protesters and looters.  Support the former, arrest the latter.

Russian bounty for US Soldiers:  If you claim to be commander in chief, with it comes a responsibility to do what one can to protect lives put at risk.  Put concern for the country ahead of personal concerns.

Impeachment:  Put concern for the country ahead of personal concerns.  Do not use government function for personal gain.

Now, I don’t see any of the above as overly hard to understand.  If you are way deep into the unravelling mind set, if you put selfishness way before the common good, the new values may become strange and incomprehensible.  Perhaps they are so much so that you are unable to perceive them.  That does not say they do not exist, that we are not speaking of them perfectly clearly.  It is just that you don’t want to hear or acknowledge them.

In many ways S&H predicted it, that the unraveling would be a selfish time, the crisis heart would be a time of united effort for the whole.  It is just that many conservatives are unwilling to let go of the selfishness.