Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory

(09-19-2020, 01:08 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-18-2020, 08:06 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I understand Ruth Ginsberg died.  Fortunately for us liberals, senate majority leader McConnell has established himself that he is a strong man of principle, and that a supreme courts seat should not be decided in an election year.  He just will not schedule a...

Never mind.

I guess one more thing to do in the never again phase of the crisis.  Make it so that if the Senate does not confirm or act within a reasonable amount of time, the nomination automatically succeeds?

If you could go back and slap the Obama Administration and Harry Reid upside the head and instill the  value of respect/ teach respect the old fashioned way like it was probably taught to you by you're old man if you were lucky enough to have an old man who wasn't afraid to man handle and  scare the shit (pampered arrogance) out of you like mine.

So you were bullied by your father?  Is that the source of your cowardice and obsession with violence?

(09-19-2020, 01:08 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]You and I will be parting ways soon enough the natural way.

Not at all clear we are parting ways.  If anything, the country is drifting a little more blue, and the Republican Party has discredited itself.  They have depended on the unraveling racist and sexist center of the country, and it is not clear they still have it.  They seem to have a choice between becoming a noisy remnant loyal to Trump or a coalition around the true conservative thought.  Either faction will not have the numbers anymore.  They will have a rough time for several decades at least.  

The cycles suggest that eventually the unravelling will come around agian, that America's greatness will again flounder for a time, but history suggests we will flounder at a higher level, without kings, without slaves, without dictators, regulating the economy, acknowledging realty and science.

(09-19-2020, 01:08 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]RBG was right, we won't see another strong independent judge/woman like her again because there aren't any women like her left to pick because the Democratic party has moved away from merit in favor of race and gender and younger age groups.

The Democratic Party would like to see the good jobs and power distributed in a way similar to the general population instead of reserved to white male protestants.  Putting more people into the pool doesn’t weaken it.  It makes it stronger.  Being racist and sexist doesn’t strengthen it.  Some are far more concerned with personal power than a functional democracy, and events have made that all too clear.

(09-19-2020, 01:08 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]If you're lucky, you'll end up on the side that values Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and you're lucky that there is a wing of the Republican party that's on your side that's there to fill the void.

The side that values Life?  The side that generated the COVID response, valuing Wall Street over Life?  The side that values Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness by separating parents from chidden and locking everyone in cages?  You care about yourselves. Poor poor red people.  Forced to wear masks, socially distance, and otherwise save the lives of members of their community.  Poor poor red people.

I am content being a descendent of the roundhead faction.

(09-18-2020, 07:28 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-18-2020, 02:07 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]We need to defeat Trump and the Republicans so badly that they are sent home to reconsider their ideas and ideology. We need to defeat them from now on, and so badly that Democrats no longer feel compelled to compromise with them and defer to their power.

Most significantly, the worst of our Boomer Generations, the ones who have the vices (ruthlessness, selfishness, and arrogance) without two of the virtues (education, principle)... I am satisfied that Trump is decisive, but he is decisively wrong...  are cast out of real power. The worst Boomers act like reincarnations of old feudal lords, people who believe that the common man exists solely for the power, indulgence, and gain  of those on the economic apex.  I look at Howe and Strauss theory and recognize the usual bond between elder Idealist and younger Civic is one between austere credibility by the Idealist generation and selfless efforts to improve the overall world for its own sake. Optimally the Idealist Generation accepts that in return for giving up- on glitz and 'luxury' it shows what it can do in reshaping a world that will outlast that generation. Donald Trump fails to fit that bill. 

Ideally we Boomers want a safer, saner, and more just world as our legacy. We have yet to bequeath that. But it is important. Some of us still have as many as three decades more to live, and a dangerous, crazy, brutal world has never been a good one for the elderly. To get that safer and saner, let alone more just world, many of us will need to downsize -- at the least to make life comprehensible.

I'm sorry but the Left Wing boomers are the worst of the Boomer Generation. Selfless effort for it's own sake sounds pretty selfish to me. If you were able to read what you write and the presence of mind to take others who are reading and judging you into account. You don't think Trump has given up his lavish lifestyle to save an American class that was being shredded by one sided trade deals and stiff environmental regulations and restrictions and high taxation and greedy union people who couldn't grasp the idea that the unions representing them weren't the companies paying their wages or grasp the fact that the country they were living in wasn't the same as the Communist/Marxist believing countries. Here's the deal, if boomers like you want a safer, saner and more just world then stop posting and stop participating in Left Wing fear campaigns and stop embracing and promoting the value of victim hood because all your doing is contributing to an obvious problem that will most likely be dealt with harshly like it was in the past.

Over in the Society and Culture section, David Horn has started a thread named We're WEIRD, Get over it.  It covers a book called The WEIRDest People in the World by Joseph Henrich.  It's thesis is that reading restructured European minds, causing them to become Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, and Democratic (WEIRD).

It seems America is one of the WEIRDest cultures in the world.  I am starting to think that the blue are more WEIRD than the red, and the crises are dragging the culture in a WEIRD direction.  WIERD may be a complement for what I call whig.  If you care for understanding the partisan divide, you may want to visit the thread.

(09-19-2020, 02:27 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-19-2020, 01:08 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-18-2020, 08:06 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I understand Ruth Ginsberg died.  Fortunately for us liberals, senate majority leader McConnell has established himself that he is a strong man of principle, and that a supreme courts seat should not be decided in an election year.  He just will not schedule a...

Never mind.

I guess one more thing to do in the never again phase of the crisis.  Make it so that if the Senate does not confirm or act within a reasonable amount of time, the nomination automatically succeeds?

If you could go back and slap the Obama Administration and Harry Reid upside the head and instill the  value of respect/ teach respect the old fashioned way like it was probably taught to you by you're old man if you were lucky enough to have an old man who wasn't afraid to man handle and  scare the shit (pampered arrogance) out of you like mine.

So you were bullied by your father?  Is that the source of your cowardice and obsession with violence?

(09-19-2020, 01:08 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]You and I will be parting ways soon enough the natural way.

Not at all clear we are parting ways.  If anything, the country is drifting a little more blue, and the Republican Party has discredited itself.  They have depended on the unraveling racist and sexist center of the country, and it is not clear they still have it.  They seem to have a choice between becoming a noisy remnant loyal to Trump or a coalition around the true conservative thought.  Either faction will not have the numbers anymore.  They will have a rough time for several decades at least.  

The cycles suggest that eventually the unravelling will come around agian, that America's greatness will again flounder for a time, but history suggests we will flounder at a higher level, without kings, without slaves, without dictators, regulating the economy, acknowledging realty and science.

(09-19-2020, 01:08 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]RBG was right, we won't see another strong independent judge/woman like her again because there aren't any women like her left to pick because the Democratic party has moved away from merit in favor of race and gender and younger age groups.

The Democratic Party would like to see the good jobs and power distributed in a way similar to the general population instead of reserved to white male protestants.  Putting more people into the pool doesn’t weaken it.  It makes it stronger.  Being racist and sexist doesn’t strengthen it.  Some are far more concerned with personal power than a functional democracy, and events have made that all too clear.

(09-19-2020, 01:08 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]If you're lucky, you'll end up on the side that values Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and you're lucky that there is a wing of the Republican party that's on your side that's there to fill the void.

The side that values Life?  The side that generated the COVID response, valuing Wall Street over Life?  The side that values Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness by separating parents from chidden and locking everyone in cages?  You care about yourselves. Poor poor red people.  Forced to wear masks, socially distance, and otherwise save the lives of members of their community.  Poor poor red people.

I am content being a descendent of the roundhead faction.

Nope. I wasn't bullied by my father. My father was a good man. Were you? I get the sense, the Liberal parents aren't like our (me, my friends, siblings and most people our age)) parents because our parents would have disowned us and set us astray for doing the shit the Liberal kids are out there doing these days. You know we are seeing and learning about all kinds of stuff about the so called peaceful protestors that the Liberals are so fond of these days. Aren't you supposed to be opposed to giving privileged whites a pass and opposed to them receiving preferential treatment. I suppose in order to be fair and come across as non biased or racist, the Liberal's have to extend preferential treatment to every Liberal oriented piece of crap who is still out there doing it these days. I didn't realize that were so many Liberal neo Nazis left for Liberals to convert to Liberal neo Bolshevik's/these days.

I get the impression that you didn't understand or believe that a lot people were going to die or understand that Trump shutting down a growing economy and halting foreign trade and restricting travel was an sign of how serious COVID19 was to Trump at the time. You already lost that argument and all you're are doing is hurting yourself and Biden's chances of being elected at this point. Dude, if all I had to choose from was Biden (Heads) or Gumby (Tails), I'd flip a coin and record the result and leave the country which is what the Obama's and Clinton's and the Liberal elite plan to do afterwards

(09-19-2020, 03:06 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-18-2020, 07:28 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-18-2020, 02:07 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]We need to defeat Trump and the Republicans so badly that they are sent home to reconsider their ideas and ideology. We need to defeat them from now on, and so badly that Democrats no longer feel compelled to compromise with them and defer to their power.

Most significantly, the worst of our Boomer Generations, the ones who have the vices (ruthlessness, selfishness, and arrogance) without two of the virtues (education, principle)... I am satisfied that Trump is decisive, but he is decisively wrong...  are cast out of real power. The worst Boomers act like reincarnations of old feudal lords, people who believe that the common man exists solely for the power, indulgence, and gain  of those on the economic apex.  I look at Howe and Strauss theory and recognize the usual bond between elder Idealist and younger Civic is one between austere credibility by the Idealist generation and selfless efforts to improve the overall world for its own sake. Optimally the Idealist Generation accepts that in return for giving up- on glitz and 'luxury' it shows what it can do in reshaping a world that will outlast that generation. Donald Trump fails to fit that bill. 

Ideally we Boomers want a safer, saner, and more just world as our legacy. We have yet to bequeath that. But it is important. Some of us still have as many as three decades more to live, and a dangerous, crazy, brutal world has never been a good one for the elderly. To get that safer and saner, let alone more just world, many of us will need to downsize -- at the least to make life comprehensible.

I'm sorry but the Left Wing boomers are the worst of the Boomer Generation.

The left-wing Boomers did not become the stars of the MBA economy. The right-wing Boomers were, aside from the Vietnam veterans who usually got the shaft in our economic system, the people who accepted that workers of any kind were objects to be manipulated, to be drawn and discarded to fit  economic needs and make a political point, and to be paid well for treating subordinates badly. The right-wing Boomers saw workers as proles whose economic interests mattered little. Those right-wing Boomers of the MBA type sold out everything human in the name of "luxury". Division of the world into an elite and a proletariat while thinning the old middle class makes an ugly social order.   

Quote:Selfless effort for it's own sake sounds pretty selfish to me.

Anyone who sees the cultivation and satisfaction of lusts and appetites of oneself is the antithesis of "selfless".

Howe and Strauss see GI's as models of selflessness in working within the system instead of rebelling when the economy was in the toilet and showed no certainty of pulling out of it -- when people thought of the late 1920's as the Golden Age that could never be attained again. Selflessness is starting a small business despite others around one similarly broke with no assurances of enough to feed one's family. Selflessness implied that people with lucrative film careers and sports careers went into the Armed Services for a pittance. Selflessness is charging machine-gun emplacements. Selflessness is that when military chaplains come up one short of a life vest they do without and drown as their ship sinks. Selflessness is throwing oneself on a live hand grenade so that your soon-to-be dead body takes the bulk of the force while your buddies survive.    

Quote:(insult deleted) You don't think Trump has given up his lavish lifestyle to save an American class that was being shredded by one sided trade deals and stiff environmental regulations and restrictions and high taxation and greedy union people who couldn't grasp the idea that the unions representing them weren't the companies paying their wages or grasp the fact that the country they were living in wasn't the same as the Communist/Marxist believing countries.

I thought I wrote long sentences! Let me try to parse yours. 

Donald Trump still has a lavish lifestyle because of the perquisites of his position. Those trade deals are made on the assumption that China does the manufacturing* while Chinese workers end up eating food made from the products of American agriculture. As for union people being greedy -- greed is one of two ways to get people to take awful jobs (that those jobs get paid better than average) as in mining, logging, or assembly-li8ne work... or people are directed to do those jobs at the behest of some bureaucrat who denies other choices. Environmental regulations have kept some thoroughly noxious stuff such as dioxin, cadmium, and mercury out of your system. If one does machine-paced work, then collective bargaining (the economic justification for a union) is all that keeps employers from exploiting the weaknesses that workers have in bargaining for their wages. I have frequently heard executives say that they prefer to deal with employees individually in negotiating wages. Yes -- so that they can drive wages into abject poverty and enrich themselves with lavish bonuses. 

Quote: Here's the deal, if boomers like you want a safer, saner and more just world then stop posting and stop participating in Left Wing fear campaigns and stop embracing and promoting the value of victim hood because all your doing is contributing to an obvious problem that will most likely be dealt with harshly like it was in the past.

At this point, Boomers are typically no longer doing factory work. Boomers, if working, are mostly supplementing their Social Security benefits. The bulk of the paid workforce is now in the Thirteenth and Millennial generations. They want to be paid well so that their children do not endure poverty in a society that lavishes elites and punishes the poor. In the end, poverty for working people is child abuse.  

*Note that during the 1960's and 1970's, smart Boomers were being told that whatever they do, avoid working in manufacturing. The future was in the professions  in which the pay would be good and the work not so monotonous. I remember seeing much material that told me that semi-skilled workers hated their repetitive jobs on an assembly line even if they were paid well, and that there would be lots of layoffs... and that many of the careers in manufacturing would end before retirement age due to workplace injuries.  

Manufacturing ended up with the dumbest workers, and such resulted in poor quality from assembly likes and a lack of people smart enough to figure out what to do when quality deteriorated.

(09-19-2020, 03:06 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-18-2020, 07:28 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-18-2020, 02:07 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]We need to defeat Trump and the Republicans so badly that they are sent home to reconsider their ideas and ideology. We need to defeat them from now on, and so badly that Democrats no longer feel compelled to compromise with them and defer to their power.

Most significantly, the worst of our Boomer Generations, the ones who have the vices (ruthlessness, selfishness, and arrogance) without two of the virtues (education, principle)... I am satisfied that Trump is decisive, but he is decisively wrong...  are cast out of real power. The worst Boomers act like reincarnations of old feudal lords, people who believe that the common man exists solely for the power, indulgence, and gain  of those on the economic apex.  I look at Howe and Strauss theory and recognize the usual bond between elder Idealist and younger Civic is one between austere credibility by the Idealist generation and selfless efforts to improve the overall world for its own sake. Optimally the Idealist Generation accepts that in return for giving up- on glitz and 'luxury' it shows what it can do in reshaping a world that will outlast that generation. Donald Trump fails to fit that bill. 

Ideally we Boomers want a safer, saner, and more just world as our legacy. We have yet to bequeath that. But it is important. Some of us still have as many as three decades more to live, and a dangerous, crazy, brutal world has never been a good one for the elderly. To get that safer and saner, let alone more just world, many of us will need to downsize -- at the least to make life comprehensible.

I'm sorry but the Left Wing boomers are the worst of the Boomer Generation. Selfless effort for it's own sake sounds pretty selfish to me. If you were able to read what you write and the presence of mind to take others who are reading and judging you into account. You don't think Trump has given up his lavish lifestyle to save an American class that was being shredded by one sided trade deals and stiff environmental regulations and restrictions and high taxation and greedy union people who couldn't grasp the idea that the unions representing them weren't the companies paying their wages or grasp the fact that the country they were living in wasn't the same as the Communist/Marxist believing countries. Here's the deal, if boomers like you want a safer, saner and more just world then stop posting and stop participating in Left Wing fear campaigns and stop embracing and promoting the value of victim hood because all your doing is contributing to an obvious problem that will most likely be dealt with harshly like it was in the past.

Right wing boomers are the worst of the Boomer Generation; probably among the worst of any generation. Trump is the worst president ever, and we all knew that going in and allowed him to get in anyway. Shame on the USA. We will all pay the price for electing Nixon, Reagan, Bush and Trump, the most corrupt and evil presidents of our time. And your philosophy Classic Xer is the worst of the worst, the biggest scam on the USA ever pulled.

(09-20-2020, 03:05 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Right wing boomers are the worst of the Boomer Generation; probably among the worst of any generation. Trump is the worst president ever, and we all knew that going in and allowed him to get in anyway. Shame on the USA. We will all pay the price for electing Nixon, Reagan, Bush and Trump, the most corrupt and evil presidents of our time. And your philosophy Classic Xer is the worst of the worst, the biggest scam on the USA ever pulled.

Which Bush?  I seem to remember two of them.  Was one of them not corrupt, just incompetent?  

I am not sure they were evil.  They were just more in tune with the people of their time, an unraveling, a time when selfishness, racism and sexism ran rampant.  We might well have deserved the government we got.

But that time has run its course.

(09-20-2020, 04:39 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-20-2020, 03:05 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Right wing boomers are the worst of the Boomer Generation; probably among the worst of any generation. Trump is the worst president ever, and we all knew that going in and allowed him to get in anyway. Shame on the USA. We will all pay the price for electing Nixon, Reagan, Bush and Trump, the most corrupt and evil presidents of our time. And your philosophy Classic Xer is the worst of the worst, the biggest scam on the USA ever pulled.

Which Bush?  I seem to remember two of them.  Was one of them not corrupt, just incompetent?  

I am not sure they were evil.  They were just more in tune with the people of their time, an unraveling, a time when selfishness, racism and sexism ran rampant.  We might well have deserved the government we got.

But that time has run its course.

I consider them evil. Not pure evil perhaps, but their decisions were harmful. USA's King George II vetoed every important advance in the legislative process you laud, and allowed industry to pollute and harm their employees. He started unnecessary wars that killed hundreds of thousands. USA King George III was even more evil, and even more the militarist, starting unnecessary wars that killed 4 or 5 times as many. He pushed forward global warming as fast as he could and damaged our civil liberties perhaps beyond repair. He ruined our debt beyond repair as well, and pushed deregulation that resulted in a great recession (although that was a bipartisan error). We did indeed deserve the government we got, because the people allowed themselves to be deceived by the faux-macho charming actor whose policies the two King Georges furthered. I would concede that King George II was not corrupt; he and Ford were the only Republican presidents since Ike who were not, while all Democrats since then were not. But for convenience, in my rants I often lump the two Bush kings together.

I am not saying the unraveling Republican presidents met my approval.  I just think they had a better ear to the American people.  We were in a selfish racist sexist time frame, and got the government we deserved.

(09-20-2020, 04:58 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I am not saying the unraveling Republican presidents met my approval.  I just think they had a better ear to the American people.  We were in a selfish racist sexist time frame, and got the government we deserved.

Largely true. The Republicans also got lucky in 1980, gaining the services of a great communicator for the 1980 election for their corporate agenda (who scores 22-6 on my system). We got into the frame we did partly because he was able to deceive people that his neo-liberal trickle-down economics worked, although it did not. Even today a bare majority subscribe to Reaganomics. Partly that also consists of the welfare scapegoating dog whistle of the sort that the closet-racist Classic Xers like.

But the salesmanship and skill of the candidate (as opposed to the president) matters. That is why I am concerned about a future Kamala Harris nomination (score 4-16, you recall).

Eisenhower 18-8
Nixon 18-7
Reagan 22-6
Bush 14-6
Bush 17-2
Trump 9-4

JFK 13-6
Carter 12-4
Bill Clinton 21-3
Barack Obama 19-2

Ford 12-8
Dole 12-19
McCain 15-13
Romney 4-10

Stevenson 5-21
Humphrey 9-5
McGovern 9-10
Mondale 12-12
Dukakis 2-10
Gore 10-9
Kerry 8-12
Hillary Clinton 9-11

Can the Democrats pick 'em, or what?

CNN has the Buffalo police department as implementing a policy of having no names on uniforms for police officers.  This is a real concern for the police.  People will publicize the names on the net, inviting retribution for misdeeds real and imagined.  But it could also be a way for bad officers to avoid responsibility.

If there is a conspicuous and obvious other way of identifying the officers, say a badge number, this might be acceptable.

(09-25-2020, 01:55 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]CNN has the Buffalo police department as implementing a policy of having no names on uniforms for police officers.  This is a real concern for the police.  People will publicize the names on the net, inviting retribution for misdeeds real and imagined.  But it could also be a way for bad officers to avoid responsibility.

If there is a conspicuous and obvious other way of identifying the officers, say a badge number, this might be acceptable.

Buffalo won't have any police to worry about for much longer and neither will you eventually. PB might luck out and still have some. I amazed that you're still going along and supporting BLM but that's what sheeple do these days.

(09-25-2020, 09:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-25-2020, 01:55 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]CNN has the Buffalo police department as implementing a policy of having no names on uniforms for police officers.  This is a real concern for the police.  People will publicize the names on the net, inviting retribution for misdeeds real and imagined.  But it could also be a way for bad officers to avoid responsibility.

If there is a conspicuous and obvious other way of identifying the officers, say a badge number, this might be acceptable.

Buffalo won't have any police to worry about for much longer and neither will you eventually. PB might luck out and still have some. I amazed that you're still going along and supporting BLM but that's what sheeple do these days.

I am supporting BLM, but not the Boogaloo Bois, the looters, or the racist violent bad cops, or the various red Trump allies that are supporting violence in the name of law and order. The laws must be enforced, and must be changed.

In Buffalo, the violent police union seems to be standing strong against the elected government. I suspect this will not survive the never again phase of the crisis. In the meantime, if the city police are unchangeably corrupt, you may have to go with disbanding the local police and expanding the county or state police forces. You can't tolerate resistance to democracy, and I expect those that try won't survive the never again phase of the crisis.

(09-25-2020, 10:41 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-25-2020, 09:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-25-2020, 01:55 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]CNN has the Buffalo police department as implementing a policy of having no names on uniforms for police officers.  This is a real concern for the police.  People will publicize the names on the net, inviting retribution for misdeeds real and imagined.  But it could also be a way for bad officers to avoid responsibility.

If there is a conspicuous and obvious other way of identifying the officers, say a badge number, this might be acceptable.

Buffalo won't have any police to worry about for much longer and neither will you eventually. PB might luck out and still have some. I amazed that you're still going along and supporting BLM but that's what sheeple do these days.

I am supporting BLM, but not the Boogaloo Bois, the looters, or the racist violent bad cops, or the various red Trump allies that are supporting violence in the name of law and order.  The laws must be enforced, and must be changed.

In Buffalo, the violent police union seems to be standing strong against the elected government.  I suspect this will not survive the never again phase of the crisis.  In the meantime, if the city police are unchangeably corrupt, you may have to go with disbanding the local police and expanding the county or state police forces. You can't tolerate resistance to democracy, and I expect those that try won't survive the never again phase of the crisis.

What is with you and you obsession with the lowly Boogaloo Bois? What is it with your racist claims against racially integrated police forces these days? What is with your systemic racism claims against cities with Weird minority leadership and Weird minorities occupying seats on the city council and Weird minorities in charge of local law enforcement and Weird minorities in charge of legal system and so forth. Personally, I think the Obamacrats are more or less destroying whatever gains the Kennedycrats made during their reign and everyone knows the Clintoncrats were all about themselves. Just so you know, I'm cool with watching the Democratic party destroying itself and cool with you waiting for a vaccine until the Democrats and the blue media get around to say it's OK or safe for you too. It may take another year or two longer than us but that's OK, we don't mind if you wait a couple more years and continue increasing deficits and continue imposing heavy restrictions and inflicting heavy loses and causing more and more jobs.

(09-25-2020, 10:41 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-25-2020, 09:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-25-2020, 01:55 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]CNN has the Buffalo police department as implementing a policy of having no names on uniforms for police officers.  This is a real concern for the police.  People will publicize the names on the net, inviting retribution for misdeeds real and imagined.  But it could also be a way for bad officers to avoid responsibility.

If there is a conspicuous and obvious other way of identifying the officers, say a badge number, this might be acceptable.

Buffalo won't have any police to worry about for much longer and neither will you eventually. PB might luck out and still have some. I amazed that you're still going along and supporting BLM but that's what sheeple do these days.

I am supporting BLM, but not the Boogaloo Bois, the looters, or the racist violent bad cops, or the various red Trump allies that are supporting violence in the name of law and order.  The laws must be enforced, and must be changed.

In Buffalo, the violent police union seems to be standing strong against the elected government.  I suspect this will not survive the never again phase of the crisis.  In the meantime, if the city police are unchangeably corrupt, you may have to go with disbanding the local police and expanding the county or state police forces. You can't tolerate resistance to democracy, and I expect those that try won't survive the never again phase of the crisis.

A 4T is so nasty because the leadership of the 3T has typically stymied any reforms other than to let people do what they were doing already -- especially if those people are already rich and powerful.  Gridlock fosters rot while achieving nothing except the deferral of needful change. What usually succeeds in a 4T establishes norms that fit mass sentiments. That at its best means rational thought, law and order (if without the wanton brutality that goes with the phrase), a promotion of economic equality, more inclusion of people recently relegated to a permanent underclass, and the general attitude (developed in a 4T) that we are all in it. Family life becomes more important than turning big profits. Quality of life matters for children again. There's nor much room for extremist hooligans in a 4T. 

No two Crises are quite alike. We have never had a leader of our country trying to maintain or get despotic power since George III. The harder he squeezed the Colonies the more they slipped away from his grasp. Whether Trump can get away with threats to dishonor an electoral result that he dislikes is yet to be determined. Maybe someone makes him an offer that he cannot refuse -- basically, step down and there will be state and federal pardons or let the military decide things. President Trump seems to be as beloved by senior officers in the US Armed Forces as Salvador Allende was in Chile in 1973 or the Philippines in 1987.

(09-20-2020, 05:49 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-20-2020, 04:58 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I am not saying the unraveling Republican presidents met my approval.  I just think they had a better ear to the American people.  We were in a selfish racist sexist time frame, and got the government we deserved.

Largely true. The Republicans also got lucky in 1980, gaining the services of a great communicator for the 1980 election for their corporate agenda (who scores 22-6 on my system). We got into the frame we did partly because he was able to deceive people that his neo-liberal trickle-down economics worked, although it did not. Even today a bare majority subscribe to Reaganomics. Partly that also consists of the welfare scapegoating dog whistle of the sort that the closet-racist Classic Xers like.

But the salesmanship and skill of the candidate (as opposed to the president) matters. That is why I am concerned about a future Kamala Harris nomination (score 4-16, you recall).

Eisenhower 18-8
Nixon 18-7
Reagan 22-6
Bush 14-6
Bush 17-2
Trump 9-4

JFK 13-6
Carter 12-4
Bill Clinton 21-3
Barack Obama 19-2

Ford 12-8
Dole 12-19
McCain 15-13
Romney 4-10

Stevenson 5-21
Humphrey 9-5
McGovern 9-10
Mondale 12-12
Dukakis 2-10
Gore 10-9
Kerry 8-12
Hillary Clinton 9-11

Can the Democrats pick 'em, or what?

It's worked for most, Biden's candidacy is proof that Reaganomics works for most Americans these days. It doesn't seem to have worked as well for Berniecrats/ quasi socialist/ Marxist/ BLM /Antifa/ identity politics/ social justice/ open boarders wing of the Democratic party these days. Honestly, I don't see how anything American related is ever going to work very well with them at this point. So, why do you keep using race against me when I don't give a shit if you're black or white or Hispanic or whatever race you identify with these days? Like I said, we KNOW which party is more racist and racially driven today. You're right about Harris because Harris represents the end of the Democratic party. I'm sorry but the racist whites with all the money and power associated with the bulk of the Democratic party's funding needs a minority to blame for the party's demise.

(09-26-2020, 01:26 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]What is with you and you obsession with the lowly Boogaloo Bois?

As long as you keep attributing Boogaloo Bois motivation to Black Lives Matter I will keep correcting the slander.  They are two different organizations with two different motivations.  I know you are tribal, and seek reasons to hate, and this is just an example.  If minorities keep being murdered and oppressed by the bad cops, you don't think some sort of response is proper and inevitable?  There is a big difference, though, between a violent and non violent approach.  You would think someone so obsessed with violence could tell the difference.

(09-26-2020, 01:26 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]What is with your systemic racism claims against cities with Weird minority leadership and Weird minorities occupying seats on the city council and Weird minorities in charge of local law enforcement and Weird minorities in charge of legal system and so forth.

Claims?  That there are bad cops oppressing minorities seems beyond question.  Wake up and smell reality.  That the cities will enforce democracy seems a proper response to a tribal culture.

(09-26-2020, 03:42 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]It's worked for most, Biden's candidacy is proof that Reaganomics works for most Americans these days. It doesn't seem to have worked as well for Berniecrats/ quasi socialist/ Marxist/ BLM /Antifa/ identity politics/ social justice/ open boarders wing of the Democratic party these days. Honestly, I don't see how anything American related is ever going to work very well with them at this point. So, why do you keep using race against me when I don't give a shit if you're black or white or Hispanic or whatever race you identify with these days? Like I said, we KNOW which party is more racist and racially driven today. You're right about Harris because Harris represents the end of the Democratic party. I'm sorry but the racist whites with all the money and power associated with the bulk of the Democratic party's funding needs a minority to blame for the party's demise.

The unravelling see saw was dominated by Reaganomics working for only seven or so years before an economic collapse.  A more responsible party has to step in to fix the economy.  You seem to be confusing the problem with the cure.  The red voters are just too obsessed with selfishness to see it.

Racism in America is reserving the best jobs for the preferred tribe.  Yes, you have defined racism differently and oddly, but you just have to see how white and male the cabinet is to know who is really racist.  That the Democrats have made their more recent tickets look more like America is rather clear.

CNN either has a prime example of bad cops abusing their power, or an example of tribal thinking by the guy they were attempting to arrest.  I'll let you decide which.  The reporters have seemed to have make a decision.

(09-26-2020, 03:42 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]It's worked for most, Biden's candidacy is proof that Reaganomics works for most Americans these days. It doesn't seem to have worked as well for Berniecrats/ quasi socialist/ Marxist/ BLM /Antifa/ identity politics/ social justice/ open boarders wing of the Democratic party these days. Honestly, I don't see how anything American related is ever going to work very well with them at this point. So, why do you keep using race against me when I don't give a shit if you're black or white or Hispanic or whatever race you identify with these days? Like I said, we KNOW which party is more racist and racially driven today. You're right about Harris because Harris represents the end of the Democratic party. I'm sorry but the racist whites with all the money and power associated with the bulk of the Democratic party's funding needs a minority to blame for the party's demise.

Actually Most of Bernies Voters HATE Sjw-ism and voted for Bernie precisely to try to block the DNC from nominating Hillary in 2016, and to block the DNC from putting Harris on the ticket for 2020. Harris is on the ticket because the DNC big money donors want her there, and for no other reason. Most privileged SJW Types hate Bernie and supported Hillary in 2016 and supported Harris/Booker/Buttigieg in 2020. If the DNC allowed fully competitive primaries, most of the SJW candidates wouldn't have support and the primary would have came down to Bernie and Tulsi because that's what the voters actually wanted. Biden would never have been nominated had the primary process been actually democratic.

Clintons/Kerry/Obama/Pelosi/Kamala are NOT the left. The Actual left despises the just mentioned politicians. Kamala's attorney general record alone places her way to the right politically of someone like Tulsi. Same with Kamala/other neoliberal supporting corporate outsourcing to China/India Etc. That is neoliberalism not leftism. Actual leftists tend to want keynesian economic projects mixed/with closed borders compared to what has existed post-1992. Regarding the Media, Neoliberals Maddow and Joy Reid are way to the right of Kyle Kulinski and Crystal Ball politically.