(03-20-2018, 01:47 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ] (03-20-2018, 12:45 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ] (03-20-2018, 12:39 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ] (03-19-2018, 01:06 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]You are on the reactionary side, because that's what red voters are today. I have already described what reds support, and why it's reactionary. Not to say that I haven't done that here for 20 years already. It's all very clear, and only awaits your awakening to see that it is better for your interests to act and vote from the larger view than from the narrow reactionary view.
I have no objection to the flag; it's a perfectly fine flag to represent the USA. The important point is for the USA to live up to the ideals and principles it represents. Right now, red politics in interested only in tarnishing these principles and ideals as fully as they can. So, blues and greens may protest against these travesties, and suggest alternative policies that are constructive to our communities, our nation and our world. They may carry and raise the flag, or they may burn it, or they may carry other flags to make their points. That is using the principles to which this nation is dedicated.
Say's who? You, the Progressives/blues/greens who have been promoting it? You've been promoting that here and telling me that to my face for years. Who is defeating you? Ain't fascist, racist, skin heads clinging to Nazi flags and symbols. Americans ain't into them anymore than there into those who's views and beliefs are similar to those associated with a red (reactionary) flag with a yellow hammer and sickle or a red (reactionary) flag with yellow stars. Who switched the colors and gave us the color that's associated with reactionary? Who are you fucking with? You are fucking with an older Nomad who isn't easily intimidated or feels insecure. You're fucking with a more confident individual than you are/were used to fucking with during past years. Do you think it matters to me if a Democrat votes to secure the southern border and supports deporting illegals instead of a Republican? It doesn't matter to me as much as it's going to matter to you.
No, you missed the mark again. The party labels and colors don't really mean shit. Symbolism of colors and flags don't count. Just the best policies. The border was already secure enough in our opinion. That's what counts; moving beyond xenophobia, which you display in your expressed opinion that what matters is securing the border and deporting illegals. No, that's not what counts. What counts is greater opportunity for all people to make it in this society without drudgery and slavery, and what counts is an environment that supports life and is not snuffed out and destroyed by greedy corporatists and wealth families who only care about their wealth.
The border isn't secured enough in our opinion. The enforcement of American law is more important to me as an American than the skin color of the person or people who have clearly broken it by entering the USA illegally. I care about my wealth. I'm not ashamed to say that I care about my wealth. Other than the blues who don't have much or any wealth to care about and the blues who have so much wealth coming in that they can't spend it fast enough, what Americans don't care about there wealth?
I care about my wealth too. It's just not the only or the main thing, but I certainly do.
Crossing a border is only a misdemeanor. Basically, shouldn't people be able to live in the country that they WANT to live in? Why not? Yes, obeying the law is better. President Obama was known as the deporter in chief. He was enforcing the border as much as any sane person could want. Trump's demagoguery on this issue happened only because he took advantage of xenophobia and racism to get elected.
Rather than deporting everyone who crossed illegally, the sane and proper thing to do is what the bipartisan bill that was passed in the senate, supported by both Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio, proposed; offer a path to citizenship to those who pay a fine and obey the law. Red America xenophobic, demagogic politics rejected this, and just wants to keep America white by deporting everyone who crosses illegally, separate people from their families, pick them up while they are taking their children to school, and putting them away in detention centers and deporting them, regardless of anything they have done. This Trump approach is fascism. And Trump uses a case in San Francisco to dramatize his insane, fascist demagoguery, when in fact the man was not even guilty of a violent crime.
Immigrants, illegal or not, from Mexico, are only taking jobs that whites don't want, and which businesses need. It's the H B1 immigrants or whatever they're called, the ones Trump WANTS to allow in his "merit system" approach, who are taking jobs away; skilled and well-educated folks who are brought in by high tech employers like many here in Silicon Valley to take jobs that Americans could get if our education system were not being decimated by the likes of Betsy DeVos.
People are getting fed up with a politics that takes away health care, decimates unions, destroys public education, keeps wages low, and destroys Nature, all so that a few corporate big shots like the Koch Brothers can keep their billions. They use slogans of free enterprise, lower taxes, fears of immigrants, and of course "gun rights," to get folks like you to support their agenda of wealth and power for the few and wage-slavery and addiction for the many. And you should know better.
"Red America" today represents voter suppression, gerrymandering, collusion with foreign powers in elections, voting by race and appeals to xenophobia in a nation of immigrants, money-dominated politics and lobbying, banks being allowed to cheat customers, dirty and oppressive wars and detentions abroad that serve oil interests and kill thousands of innocent people, threats against newspapers and broadcasters, threats and laws against protesters, huge tax breaks to corporations and billionaires; you think this is "the flag, the Constitution, the American rule of law, the protection of American rights"? Or maybe you mean laws against burning the flag is "American"? Justice Scalia disagreed. No, it's constitutional. Your red "American" rights consist merely of symbolism, protection of the white and the rich, protection of moneyed interests, protection of the right to possess military weapons. NO thanks for that "America." The battle against it is well-known among Democrats.