Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory

David and her sister on national TV in June

How congress voted on gun control:

https://www.npr.org/2018/02/19/566731477...-gun-bills

Americans used to think hippies were lazy fruits for dropping out during the Vietnam War, but maybe the hippies had the right idea after all.

If you can't change a corrupt system, why be a part of it?

http://www.badharvest.net/forum/viewforum.php?id=2

(08-06-2018, 01:02 AM)met Wrote: [ -> ]Americans used to think hippies were lazy fruits for dropping out during the Vietnam War, but maybe the hippies had the right idea after all.

If you can't change a corrupt system, why be a part of it?

http://www.badharvest.net/forum/viewforum.php?id=2

As a former hippie myself, I can attest to how poorly that worked.  It was bad then.  It's 10-times worse now.

The US used to be a moral, peaceful, and free country with a balanced budget. Now the USA is an immoral bankrupt warmongering police state. Saying nothing just seems wrong.

The US government is no longer legitimate.

http://www.newsandsentinel.com/uncategor...egitimate/

The USA is no longer a democracy. Why obey the law or pay taxes when Americans have no control over what laws are made or what the tax rate should be?

http://blog.pennlive.com/capitol-noteboo...new_s.html

How can you obey the law when everything is illegal?

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinio.../25478695/

Why should Americans obey the law when the government and illegal aliens don’t?

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201...e-matters/

Why should Americans obey the law when doing good or bad are both illegal?

https://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/04/justi...index.html

How can you obey the law when our overlords don’t even tell you what the law is?

https://www.bendbulletin.com/opinion/edi...-a-mystery

Think.

Pass the word.

Beto knows how to talk about gun control in Texas. He is proposing the right things, even in the heart of gun country. We'll see if he can make gun control palatable in Texas, even including prohibition of AR-15 sales. Like me, he draws a limit on confiscation, as long as owners are responsible. And he is willing to "have a conversation." His positions are identical to those of David Hogg.

He is very articulate, and a real trooper. He is not taking any kind of PAC money. He supports progressive policies on medicare for all, a living wage and immigration reform. I may be proven wrong on my horoscope score system if he ever runs for president; he only gets a 10-22 score. Who knows? But he has pulled almost even with the senator who is the most unpopular guy in the Senate, is thoroughly unlikable, and has an even lower presidential candidate score than him (and lost). So, in a blue year, in a red state with changing demographics, he has a chance. Amy Bell 65 is working hard to get him elected.

https://youtu.be/Hz-1fevQq40?t=11m20s (gun control issue)

(09-12-2018, 12:24 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Beto knows how to talk about gun control in Texas. He is proposing the right things, even in the heart of gun country. We'll see if he can make gun control palatable in Texas, even including prohibition of AR-15 sales. Like me, he draws a limit on confiscation, as long as owners are responsible. And he is willing to "have a conversation." His positions are identical to those of David Hogg.

He is very articulate, and a real trooper. He is not taking any kind of PAC money. He supports progressive policies on medicare for all, a living wage and immigration reform. I may be proven wrong on my horoscope score system if he ever runs for president; he only gets a 10-22 score. Who knows? But he has pulled almost even with the senator who is the most unpopular guy in the Senate, is thoroughly unlikable, and has an even lower presidential candidate score than him (and lost). So, in a blue year, in a red state with changing demographics, he has a chance. Amy Bell 65 is working hard to get him elected.

If Beto O'Rouke wins, it will be a seachange in US politics.

(09-12-2018, 12:24 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Beto knows how to talk about gun control in Texas. He is proposing the right things, even in the heart of gun country. We'll see if he can make gun control palatable in Texas, even including prohibition of AR-15 sales. Like me, he draws a limit on confiscation, as long as owners are responsible. And he is willing to "have a conversation." His positions are identical to those of David Hogg.

He is very articulate, and a real trooper. He is not taking any kind of PAC money. He supports progressive policies on medicare for all, a living wage and immigration reform. I may be proven wrong on my horoscope score system if he ever runs for president; he only gets a 10-22 score. Who knows? But he has pulled almost even with the senator who is the most unpopular guy in the Senate, is thoroughly unlikable, and has an even lower presidential candidate score than him (and lost). So, in a blue year, in a red state with changing demographics, he has a chance. Amy Bell 65 is working hard to get him elected.

https://youtu.be/Hz-1fevQq40?t=11m20s (gun control issue)

I am satisfied that legitimate sporting use of firearms  and honest collection (how many AR 15s or AK-47s does a real collector need?) deserve protection through the Second Amendment. In essence, a hunting license is a gun permit. Skeet-shooting? No problem. People with certifiable mental problems that make them untrustworthy with firearms should be denied firearms. The military has ways to weed out people that it does not want in possession of firearms. Shouldn't we? That is the militia clause.  A well-trained militia does not have idiots, lunatics, criminals, or persons of dubious loyalty. If one is connected to a known terrorist organization and has no legal right to fly, then why should one have a firearm?

We have over-reacted to 9/11 and under-reacted to gun-enabled massacres.

(09-16-2018, 10:12 PM)park Wrote: [ -> ]We'll all be living in caves after everything is outlawed, but then you can be sure that living in caves will soon be banned in order to protect endangered bats.

Isn't it odd how little this resembles the other democracies of the world, where guns are severely restricted.

(09-12-2018, 06:53 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]We have over-reacted to 9/11 and under-reacted to gun-enabled massacres.

Making a prohibition work is hard if the People want what is prohibited.

I think both sides could agree that felons and the insane should be prohibited weapons, but it seems hard to have any sort of due process that works on the insane.  One could try.  The hole is there.  The law does not stand in the way.  It just seems that no one can make it work without 20 20 hindsight.  Thus you get some daydreaming about total prohibitions, which the law does stand in the way of.

The insane seem to have changed the culture.  If one is going to commit suicide these days, one seeks the publicity of taking some innocents with them.  The media is providing the publicity.  I don't see it as the government's place to force censorship on the press, but the press deciding not to profit so much on the death of innocents seems possible.

(09-18-2018, 03:42 AM)park Wrote: [ -> ]The police can't stop an intruder, mugger, or stalker from hurting you. They can pursue him only after he has hurt or killed you. Protecting yourself from harm is your responsibility, and you are far less likely to be hurt in a neighborhood of gun-owners than in one of disarmed citizens - even if you don't own a gun yourself.

I guess that means there is a negative correlation between gun ownership in a state or country, and amount of gun violence.  Oh yeah … NOT!

They have gun control in Britain. They have universal healthcare in Britain.

What's the difference between Britain and Cuba? Could it be something called freedom?

(09-18-2018, 09:19 PM)park Wrote: [ -> ]They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?

People migrate for many reasons, but Cubans had the unique ability to access the US with one dry foot.  That ended in 2017, so I assume your comment is based on CURRENT stats.

Americans think that the US must be a police state now because the USA was always a police state, but Americans don't realize that the US used to have freedom and lost it.

(10-04-2018, 10:36 PM)berlin Wrote: [ -> ]Americans think that the US must be a police state now because the USA was always a police state, but Americans don't realize that the US used to have freedom and lost it.

As an American, I know that we've never been perfect as a country, but darker periods have always been overcome.  That's the past, which, we are always warned, is not prologue.  The 1950s were dark, in their way, but nothing like now.  Other than the period just prior to the ACW, I can't think of a precedent.  So we will either save our democracy or it will degrade into something more autocratic.  It's up to us.  No one is riding to the rescue.

(10-05-2018, 10:08 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-04-2018, 10:36 PM)berlin Wrote: [ -> ]Americans think that the US must be a police state now because the USA was always a police state, but Americans don't realize that the US used to have freedom and lost it.

As an American, I know that we've never been perfect as a country, but darker periods have always been overcome.  That's the past, which, we are always warned, is not prologue.  The 1950s were dark, in their way, but nothing like now.  Other than the period just prior to the ACW, I can't think of a precedent.  So we will either save our democracy or it will degrade into something more autocratic.  It's up to us.  No one is riding to the rescue.

For many, the 'rescue' might be unwelcome. Politics look much like those of the late 1850s, with Machiavellian power plays (including BK, and that does not mean Burger King) become the norm. If you think America polarized now, then think of what it will be like in the middle of November. We do not have a well-intentioned President (Buchanan) at his wits end trying to patch things together and failing. We have a President trying to establish a despotism or dictatorship that people might know only if they lived in such a place -- and not America. Trump could be worse than Buchanan in his effect upon the quality of politics.

An attempt to establish a tyranny, as by nullifying an election, would put an end to America and make America extremely unstable. Such could be the pretext for a military coup.

The best that I can hope for is that Americans tire of Trump and start showing such in elections. Maybe the Republican Party ends up going the way of the (Communist-dominated) Polish United Worker's Party (initials PZPR), losing its parliamentary seats in three stages in straddled elections. Maybe we find that farmers and ranchers who usually vote Republican out of concern for taxes will not be so concerned about taxes as their revenues plummet.

(10-05-2018, 10:08 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]So we will either save our democracy or it will degrade into something more autocratic.  It's up to us.  No one is riding to the rescue.

I don't see how you are going save democracy by advocating for more government involvement, advocating for giving the government more authority, more influence and voting in favor of a more centralized/ autocratic form of government. Thank god, it's not up to people like you anymore. If you are blue, listen to M&L last statement and take it to heart because the rest of America won't be riding to the rescue of a bunch of Blue American born fools.

(07-07-2018, 05:19 AM)m732 Wrote: [ -> ]Living in a police state is dehumanizing.

Americans are just slaves, zombies, and sheep now.

Well, according to the polls, only about half  to one third of it seems to be that way right now.

(10-04-2018, 10:36 PM)berlin Wrote: [ -> ]Americans think that the US must be a police state now because the USA was always a police state, but Americans don't realize that the US used to have freedom and lost it.

Well, there's two America's these days.

(10-05-2018, 05:22 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-05-2018, 10:08 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-04-2018, 10:36 PM)berlin Wrote: [ -> ]Americans think that the US must be a police state now because the USA was always a police state, but Americans don't realize that the US used to have freedom and lost it.

As an American, I know that we've never been perfect as a country, but darker periods have always been overcome.  That's the past, which, we are always warned, is not prologue.  The 1950s were dark, in their way, but nothing like now.  Other than the period just prior to the ACW, I can't think of a precedent.  So we will either save our democracy or it will degrade into something more autocratic.  It's up to us.  No one is riding to the rescue.

For many, the 'rescue' might be unwelcome. Politics look much like those of the late 1850s, with Machiavellian power plays (including BK, and that does not mean Burger King) become the norm. If you think America polarized now, then think of what it will be like in the middle of November. We do not have a well-intentioned President (Buchanan) at his wits end trying to patch things together and failing. We have a President trying to establish a despotism or dictatorship that people might know only if they lived in such a place -- and not America. Trump could be worse than Buchanan in his effect upon the quality of politics.

An attempt to establish a tyranny, as by nullifying an election, would put an end to America and make America extremely unstable. Such could be the pretext for a military coup.

The best that I can hope for is that Americans tire of Trump and start showing such in elections. Maybe the Republican Party ends up going the way of the (Communist-dominated) Polish United Worker's Party (initials PZPR), losing its parliamentary seats in three stages in straddled elections. Maybe we find that farmers and ranchers who usually vote Republican out of concern for taxes will not be so concerned about taxes as their revenues plummet.

As revenues plummet, people become more concerned about the amount of taxes that they are legally obligated to pay. The best you can hope for is an amicable divorce/ split and a free ticket along with a guarantee of safe passage to where ever blue America end up.