10-27-2016, 09:59 AM
It certainly looks like it's shaping up that way. My bet is that the 2020s see the last election along the conservative/liberal divide that originated in the Millennial Saeculum.
(10-27-2016, 11:31 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]Tribal nationalism is on the rise because we're in a crisis period. We'll have to wait for the next second or third turning for cosmopoliitanism to come back.
(10-27-2016, 11:40 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: [ -> ](10-27-2016, 11:31 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]Tribal nationalism is on the rise because we're in a crisis period. We'll have to wait for the next second or third turning for cosmopoliitanism to come back.
In no way is what I described Cosmopolitanism. It is actually based on Agrarian, Jeffersonian values. And it can win. The tribal version cannot, and always ends in destruction, either self destruction or destruction imposed from without.
(10-27-2016, 01:39 PM)playwrite Wrote: [ -> ]I think the divide is much more cosmopolitan/vulgarian, with the vulgarian tribe divided further between the philistine with xenophobic tendencies (disguised as nationalism) and the money-grubbers. To the extent that the money-grubbers can manipulate the philistines will determine how much the combined vulgarian group can remain an active political force.
Some of the philistines sub-group will smartin up and reject the xenophobic siren calls of the money-grubbers sub-group. However, most will not change but instead fall further and further behind economically and healthwise and simply die out.
On occasion, the money-grubbers will come to fear what they have wrought with their seething philistine sheeple and back off - like the ones currently backing away from Trumpism. The money-grubbers subgroup, however, cannot be made to fully come to heel until enough of their philistine sheeple either smartin up or die off to sufficiently undermine the political power of the combined vulgarians group.
It's going to take a while, but we're on the road to it. First by winning national level elections and increasingly statewide elections that through making the SCOTUS and state judiciary increasingly progressive will undermine gerrymandering, corporate electioneering, voter suppression and other desperate rearguard effort. But just as important, these loses will help split the vulgarians into their two subgroups, despising each other as much as the cosmopolitans and thereby hasten their eventual departure as a political force.
(10-27-2016, 11:23 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: [ -> ](10-27-2016, 09:59 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]It certainly looks like it's shaping up that way. My bet is that the 2020s see the last election along the conservative/liberal divide that originated in the Millennial Saeculum.
I'd like to offer up a better type of Nationalism.
The current pathetic attempt is essentially an "Anglo-Saxon-American White Power" tribal identity group. Truly lame.
A better Nationalism is based on what the US was always architected to be - a nation formed around ideals, structures, and Natural Law, and not formed around the narrow and non-sustainable notion of tribe. This is what has always set us apart from our European colonial power former masters. There are some oft overlooked corners of Whiggish American-style Classical Liberalism which are excellent potential incubators for a future Humanistic Nationalism.
(10-27-2016, 01:39 PM)playwrite Wrote: [ -> ]I think the divide is much more cosmopolitan/vulgarian, with the vulgarian tribe divided further between the philistine with xenophobic tendencies (disguised as nationalism) and the money-grubbers. To the extent that the money-grubbers can manipulate the philistines will determine how much the combined vulgarian group can remain an active political force.
Quote:Some of the philistines sub-group will smartin up and reject the xenophobic siren calls of the money-grubbers sub-group. However, most will not change but instead fall further and further behind economically and healthwise and simply die out.
Quote:On occasion, the money-grubbers will come to fear what they have wrought with their seething philistine sheeple and back off - like the ones currently backing away from Trumpism. The money-grubbers subgroup, however, cannot be made to fully come to heel until enough of their philistine sheeple either smartin up or die off to sufficiently undermine the political power of the combined vulgarians group.
Quote:It's going to take a while, but we're on the road to it. First by winning national level elections and increasingly statewide elections that through making the SCOTUS and state judiciary increasingly progressive will undermine gerrymandering, corporate electioneering, voter suppression and other desperate rearguard effort. But just as important, these losses will help split the vulgarians into their two subgroups, despising each other as much as the cosmopolitans and thereby hasten their eventual departure as a political force.
(10-28-2016, 02:48 PM)Mikebert Wrote: [ -> ]Links would help when making a post like this. Are there some writers advocating for this idea? Link to them. If this is your idea then more detail and explanation is needed. Not in a single super-long post, but in bite sized pieces in which you respond to questions.
(10-29-2016, 09:35 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Many of the vulgarians are proud of Hillary Clinton's label "deplorable", even wearing the word as a badge of pride. Such people would never think of deciding why Hillary Clinton labels them 'deplorable'.It goes both ways. At the last debate, Donald Trump called Hillary Clinton a nasty woman. Clinton supporters are wearing that word "nasty" as a badge of pride, too. I have seen this on Twitter.
(10-29-2016, 04:29 PM)naf140230 Wrote: [ -> ](10-29-2016, 09:35 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Many of the vulgarians are proud of Hillary Clinton's label "deplorable", even wearing the word as a badge of pride. Such people would never think of deciding why Hillary Clinton labels them 'deplorable'.It goes both ways. At the last debate, Donald Trump called Hillary Clinton a nasty woman. Clinton supporters are wearing that word "nasty" as a badge of pride, too. I have seen this on Twitter.
(10-29-2016, 04:45 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ](10-29-2016, 04:29 PM)naf140230 Wrote: [ -> ](10-29-2016, 09:35 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Many of the vulgarians are proud of Hillary Clinton's label "deplorable", even wearing the word as a badge of pride. Such people would never think of deciding why Hillary Clinton labels them 'deplorable'.It goes both ways. At the last debate, Donald Trump called Hillary Clinton a nasty woman. Clinton supporters are wearing that word "nasty" as a badge of pride, too. I have seen this on Twitter.
Which to me isn't a change for the better on either side.
(11-01-2016, 01:46 PM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]We have four years of vacuous posturing ahead of us. Will that aid or retard the transformation of the parties? 2020 is a critical election, much more so than this one, and I don't see anything in the works that will move use in a better direction. It's obvious that the old structure is dead, and this poisonous election is doing nothing to help.
(11-01-2016, 04:41 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]Why the heck does America mix politics and religion ffs?
(10-29-2016, 04:29 PM)naf140230 Wrote: [ -> ](10-29-2016, 09:35 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Many of the vulgarians are proud of Hillary Clinton's label "deplorable", even wearing the word as a badge of pride. Such people would never think of deciding why Hillary Clinton labels them 'deplorable'.It goes both ways. At the last debate, Donald Trump called Hillary Clinton a nasty woman. Clinton supporters are wearing that word "nasty" as a badge of pride, too. I have seen this on Twitter.
Mikebert Wrote:So we are left with slow motion cultural evolution of the mindsets needed to resolve the crisis. In that case we might not get movement on the crisis issues until a decade or more hence, by which time, Dave Horn will be pass the point of caring and I will be getting close that that.
(11-01-2016, 04:25 PM)Mikebert Wrote: [ -> ]What do you see as issues, and how would you address them?
Some years ago I wrote a series of posts calling for somebody to advocate for a tariff. I said they may not be a good policy in themselves, but talking about tariifs was definitely a good policy as it would put the fear of God into the elites. Well that has now happened, and it is good.
Next up is more problematic. Simple repetition would suggest some right-wing or Islamic terrorism. But history does not repeat. Of course a financial panic and depression would solve all the problems, but this would be a gift from God. I am not sure God gives a shit about us, but if I am wrong and the Christians are right, then we should get an economic collapse, the sooner the better.
We can hope that the Christians are right, that God will intervene on behalf of America and give us the economic collapse we need, but suppose the atheists are right and there is no God? Then they may well be no panic, no economic collapse
In this case maybe we get violence? The question is who? American Right-Wingers talk a good game but ultimately have no balls. Even if they did, you would think it would be mass shootings, which are zero impact, particularly if the perp is some white dude. Maybe there could be some Islamic terrorism, but I don't think ISIS has the ideological penetration to carry this off. Maybe there will be more cops getting shot, but I doubt it. Unless you have some more McVeigh-type figures using bombs, I can't see anything coming from something like this.
So we are left with slow motion cultural evolution of the mindsets needed to resolve the crisis. In that case we might not get movement on the crisis issues until a decade or more hence, by which time, Dave Horn will be pass the point of caring and I will be getting close that that.
(11-01-2016, 04:41 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]Why the heck does America mix politics and religion ffs?