Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory

(12-29-2016, 04:14 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 03:10 AM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 02:45 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 01:43 AM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 01:32 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]I have the ability to compare what it was like to post ten years ago to what it's like to post today. I'm familiar with the environments and the changes that have occurred in the environment over a ten year span. Honey, posting today is nothing like it was ten years ago. Mind control was more popular on the left ten years ago.

What's different between us? We have an obvious age difference. We have an obvious cultural difference. We have biological differences and income differences and different priorities as well. We probably have to many differences to overcome and be able to relate to one another and view each other as equals.

Oh wow really? I thought it was extreme now in comparison to what i experience in my own country. That is interesting. I wonder what caused that change.
Well yes we have differences, but it is not like I do not view you as someone who is not my equal. I cannot say the same for others who are disrespectful to me. Which does not usually include you. I measure people on how they treat me. Not in our differences. And that is the honest truth.

The 4T was much more extreme ten years ago. American politics is still about the same as it was ten years ago.

Wow. That is interesting. You are right about the culture. My reaction when I started to hear more about what went on over there and also chatting to Americans was sort of like whoa! In comparison it is far more aggressive, far more extreme. It has left an impression on me. Americans have told me it is nothing like how it appears online though. People become emboldened and passionate about their thoughts rather than what they show in public apparently. I guess being online is a way to vent out with "seemingly" no consequences....they think. I thought that the 4T was becoming more extreme. Especially after this last election.

Politics has to be more aggressive in the United States than New Zealand for obvious reasons. We are a lot more involved in everything than New Zealand. As I've mentioned before, I live in a smaller US state that's larger than your entire country. But, I would view Minnesota and New Zealand as being equal in level as far as its position in the world. Minnesota has some say but not as much say as a state like California or New York. Does your country have limousine liberals, movie stars, comedians and musicians playing an active role in its politics? Politics that eliminate jobs, gives preference to certain illegal aliens and dishes out policies as if they're free. If I was king, I would separate this group, give this group what it wants and tax it to death.

I would separate the group, so that the whiners about taxes are taxed to death. Movie stars like Ronald Reagan and comedians like Donald Trump do indeed become active politicians and even get elected president by this group. They eliminate jobs, and depress wages, and dish out billions of freebees to those who already have too much. Yes, this group, called Republicans, maybe should be separated.

(12-28-2016, 11:59 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2016, 07:00 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]By the way, Eric if you can prove that it does work I can consider that too. I am interested in what strategy works best is all and I am trying to find it. I am merely observing you guys and seeing that conversation does not seem to go anywhere.

In my opinion, results work/speak the best. The problem with results  is that results take time. Who has the time/patience to wait for results? Progressives don't have time, progressives have upcoming elections to win and their political powers to defend as much as possible. The conversations as you say may not seem to go anywhere but the conversations do eventually get results over time. I've seen results over a ten year period that you haven't seen. Eric already lost the war on all the fronts that really matter to most Americans. Eric won a few battles that didn't matter all that much as far as the greater scheme of things.

And what will be the results when people of unbridled selfishness and rapaciousness, contempt for the intellect, and disdain for any political opinions incompatible with theirs, get full power? I see no virtue in the inchoate ruling elite of America -- only vice.

...We progressives are now limited to control of large cities and very few states in which we have any meaningful power. Yes, the Hard Right can see the long term -- themselves enshrined as masters forever (never mind that it ends as in 1789 in France or 1917 in Russia) and the rest of Humanity obliged to suffer with pretended glee. In that dreadful world the common man is fully accountable to people accountable to none.

A little hint: I tried understanding why the Roman Empire fell, and I noticed that the barbarians finally discovered the weakness of the system. The barbarians told the serfs of Rome something like this:

"Show us where your masters keep the treasure and hide their daughters, and we will free you of your masters and let you take the land to which you are bonded."

For most people of the time, the fall of the Roman system was a genuine liberation from economic and political oppression. Just imagine how easy it would be for barbarians circa 2300 AD to destroy such a nasty system. They take the precious metals, the jewels, the Old Master paintings, and the fine horses; they take the pretty princesses as their own, they kill off the rest of the ruling elite, and they give the proles their freedom.  That is how Nazi Germany would have died circa 2230 AD had it taken over the West.

There is a better ending -- the end of your new Gilded Age, most likely in an economic meltdown that will resemble the three years beginning in September 1929.  Yes, it will be rough, but we Americans came out of that one better for the struggle and for having to experiment with Big Government accountable to the people. White America needs to recognize the value of fair play and the creative, imaginative, well-honed mind. At that, middle-class blacks, Asians, and Hispanics are ahead of most white people.  Those middle-class minorities, America's model minorities, have good cause to not trust rapacious plutocrats who stop at nothing to get what they want. They may be proved right. As in the last Crisis Era, the one model minority that America then had -- Jews -- reshaped American culture as no minority of similar size has ever done in America.

You may find such uncomfortable. History does not operate for human comfort.

(12-28-2016, 06:58 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2016, 06:27 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]We progressives will fight and demonstrate and write and organize against Drumpf, and Drumpf has promised at his rallies to crack down hard on us and have us carried out on stretchers, beaten up and jailed. It may not be pretty, and people are going to be hurt by Drumpf. Violence may occur on both sides.

This is the reality. The personal behavior here is not the problem, and it's wrong to focus or put energy into it in these posts. Those who do, are just as guilty themselves, if not more so; so it means nothing coming from them at all. The moderator can decide, for better or worse, and we can report what we don't like. That's fine. But what needs correcting is what America did on Nov.8, and for the last 37 years. Let's see THAT corrected, and THEN we can TALK more about respect and love and politeness. The opposition to Trump and the Republicans, if it's polite, will fail. It must be bold and unrelenting.

You can disagree, and claim some kind of moderate or "polite" approach is better, or support the GOP instead. That's a perfectly appropriate viewpoint to take, even if I disagree. It's not a personal issue. There are many points of view, and this is an open forum. I accept that there are other views besides my own. If there weren't, it would get boring here. It's virtually fruitless to spend time posting here, if one hopes to convince people to your view. I understand that too. But at least it's a repository for information that I and others find, and a practice field for writing about it.

It is a problem because it causes people to not listen and do you win battles that way? I do not see it working. Thing is, Eric I agree with you politically. I would make a miserable Republican. I do not relate to them at all. I just am very skeptical about your strategy of convincing others that you are right. Does it work should be the question.

The "listen to everyone's opinions and be nice to each other" mindset is the Artist approach and the lack of an active Artist generation in a 4T is a big reason 4Ts are what they are (and how Artists get that mindset in the first place as children).

(12-28-2016, 11:59 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2016, 07:00 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]By the way, Eric if you can prove that it does work I can consider that too. I am interested in what strategy works best is all and I am trying to find it. I am merely observing you guys and seeing that conversation does not seem to go anywhere.

In my opinion, results work/speak the best. The problem with results  is that results take time. Who has the time/patience to wait for results? Progressives don't have time, progressives have upcoming elections to win and their political powers to defend as much as possible. The conversations as you say may not seem to go anywhere but the conversations do eventually get results over time. I've seen results over a ten year period that you haven't seen. Eric already lost the war on all the fronts that really matter to most Americans. Eric won a few battles that didn't matter all that much as far as the greater scheme of things.

Your views aren't even popular in your own state, Classic. When the Tea Party crazy wing of the Minnesota GOP tried to impose themselves on the state in 2012 they got slaughtered at the polls.

(12-29-2016, 02:45 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]The 4T was much more extreme ten years ago. American politics is still about the same as it was ten years ago.

2006 was still 3T, before the Crash and before the Tea Party lunatics.

(12-29-2016, 04:28 AM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 04:14 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 03:10 AM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 02:45 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 01:43 AM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]Oh wow really? I thought it was extreme now in comparison to what i experience in my own country. That is interesting. I wonder what caused that change.
Well yes we have differences, but it is not like I do not view you as someone who is not my equal. I cannot say the same for others who are disrespectful to me. Which does not usually include you. I measure people on how they treat me. Not in our differences. And that is the honest truth.

The 4T was much more extreme ten years ago. American politics is still about the same as it was ten years ago.

Wow. That is interesting. You are right about the culture. My reaction when I started to hear more about what went on over there and also chatting to Americans was sort of like whoa! In comparison it is far more aggressive, far more extreme. It has left an impression on me. Americans have told me it is nothing like how it appears online though. People become emboldened and passionate about their thoughts rather than what they show in public apparently. I guess being online is a way to vent out with "seemingly" no consequences....they think. I thought that the 4T was becoming more extreme. Especially after this last election.

Politics has to be more aggressive in the United States than New Zealand for obvious reasons. We are a lot more involved in everything than New Zealand. As I've mentioned before, I live in a smaller US state that's larger than your entire country. But, I would view Minnesota and New Zealand as being equal in level as far as its position in the world. Minnesota has some say but not as much say as a state like California or New York. Does your country have limousine liberals, movie stars, comedians and musicians playing an active role in its politics? Politics that eliminate jobs, gives preference to certain illegal aliens and dishes out policies as if they're free. If I was king, I would separate this group, give this group what it wants and tax it to death.

Hmm politics is pretty quiet here in comparison. Never heard of a limousine lib. But thing is the culture is pretty quiet here too and is not divided in the way I see it divided by politics in America. It is quite strange for me to see in comparison to what I have experienced here. Btw we agree on "preference to illegal aliens" but I also despise what I have learned that here in NZ we let in immigrants and certain ones apparently get a house, car and job. Some brag about it. Now, we have citizens who struggle to get all three things. Why are they favoured? They are cheap labour. I just recently heard that miners here are being paid by a certain company only 3 dollars an hour! That is illegal here in NZ when the average minumum wage for an adult is $15 an hour. Of course they will put up with it because they do not want to return home. And of course they are able to be used in ways that citizens will refuse to put up with. This makes it harder for us to get jobs here. Of course I am concerned also about the housing crisis and naturally I am not impressed that they are given a roof over head when we struggle to get homes too. We need to sort out the crisis here first and tend to the quality of life here for citizens first before anything else in my opinion.

Tara, a big difference between the US and NZ is that we are not an homogeneous culture. If you are interested, I recommend the book American Nations by Colin Woodard. The book goes very in-depth about the different cultural regions of the US and their histories. Here's a book review.


I'm from the region called Yankeedom, which Woodard describes as:

Quote:Founded on the shores of Massachusetts Bay by radical Calvinists as a new Zion, Yankeedom has, since the outset, put great emphasis on perfecting earthly civilization through social engineering, denial of self for the common good, and assimilation of outsiders. It has prized education, intellectual achievement, communal empowerment, and broad citizen participation in politics and government, the latter seen as the public’s shield against the machinations of grasping aristocrats and other would-be tyrants. Since the early Puritans, it has been more comfortable with government regulation and public-sector social projects than many of the other nations, who regard the Yankee utopian streak with trepidation.

A lot of our conservative ideologues here in the US come from Greater Appalachia and the Deep South regions, who generally hate us Yankees.

(12-29-2016, 07:53 AM)Odin Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2016, 06:58 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2016, 06:27 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]We progressives will fight and demonstrate and write and organize against Drumpf, and Drumpf has promised at his rallies to crack down hard on us and have us carried out on stretchers, beaten up and jailed. It may not be pretty, and people are going to be hurt by Drumpf. Violence may occur on both sides.

This is the reality. The personal behavior here is not the problem, and it's wrong to focus or put energy into it in these posts. Those who do, are just as guilty themselves, if not more so; so it means nothing coming from them at all. The moderator can decide, for better or worse, and we can report what we don't like. That's fine. But what needs correcting is what America did on Nov.8, and for the last 37 years. Let's see THAT corrected, and THEN we can TALK more about respect and love and politeness. The opposition to Trump and the Republicans, if it's polite, will fail. It must be bold and unrelenting.

You can disagree, and claim some kind of moderate or "polite" approach is better, or support the GOP instead. That's a perfectly appropriate viewpoint to take, even if I disagree. It's not a personal issue. There are many points of view, and this is an open forum. I accept that there are other views besides my own. If there weren't, it would get boring here. It's virtually fruitless to spend time posting here, if one hopes to convince people to your view. I understand that too. But at least it's a repository for information that I and others find, and a practice field for writing about it.

It is a problem because it causes people to not listen and do you win battles that way? I do not see it working. Thing is, Eric I agree with you politically. I would make a miserable Republican. I do not relate to them at all. I just am very skeptical about your strategy of convincing others that you are right. Does it work should be the question.

The "listen to everyone's opinions and be nice to each other" mindset is the Artist approach and the lack of an active Artist generation in a 4T is a big reason 4Ts are what they are (and how Artists get that mindset in the first place as children).

I have no idea of when the Millennial-Homelander divide is... but it is telling that everyone born in the 20th century will be old enough to vote in the 2018 midterm election. Meanwhile the Silent Generation is dropping out rapidly from active life. It is telling that next year the youngest Silent turn 75. Now 61, I can remember when Barbra Streisand was the hot new talent; she turns 75 next year.

The most lasting contribution of the Silent will be their self-effacing comedy, often spoofing the often-soulless efficiency of GI movers-and-shakers.  But the timing is now gone for the surviving Silent comedians who can no longer do comedy.  They could have made a mockery of some of the puffed-up egos of our time -- especially THE most puffed-up ego of our time.

(12-29-2016, 08:04 AM)Odin Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 02:45 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]The 4T was much more extreme ten years ago. American politics is still about the same as it was ten years ago.

2006 was still 3T, before the Crash and before the Tea Party lunatics.

There is a contingent that believes that the 4T began on 9/11. I don't know if Classic X is part of that group. Just pointing out that it has not been established when the 4T began.

(12-29-2016, 08:02 AM)Odin Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2016, 11:59 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2016, 07:00 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]By the way, Eric if you can prove that it does work I can consider that too. I am interested in what strategy works best is all and I am trying to find it. I am merely observing you guys and seeing that conversation does not seem to go anywhere.

In my opinion, results work/speak the best. The problem with results  is that results take time. Who has the time/patience to wait for results? Progressives don't have time, progressives have upcoming elections to win and their political powers to defend as much as possible. The conversations as you say may not seem to go anywhere but the conversations do eventually get results over time. I've seen results over a ten year period that you haven't seen. Eric already lost the war on all the fronts that really matter to most Americans. Eric won a few battles that didn't matter all that much as far as the greater scheme of things.

Your views aren't even popular in your own state, Classic. When the Tea Party crazy wing of the Minnesota GOP tried to impose themselves on the state in 2012 they got slaughtered at the polls.

You don't even know what my views are on most issues that would matter to a progressive like yourself. How many Minnesotan's would vote to give you a free ride? Minnesotan's aren't that stupid.

(12-29-2016, 05:24 AM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 05:19 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 04:14 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 03:10 AM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 02:45 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]The 4T was much more extreme ten years ago. American politics is still about the same as it was ten years ago.

Wow. That is interesting. You are right about the culture. My reaction when I started to hear more about what went on over there and also chatting to Americans was sort of like whoa! In comparison it is far more aggressive, far more extreme. It has left an impression on me. Americans have told me it is nothing like how it appears online though. People become emboldened and passionate about their thoughts rather than what they show in public apparently. I guess being online is a way to vent out with "seemingly" no consequences....they think. I thought that the 4T was becoming more extreme. Especially after this last election.

Politics has to be more aggressive in the United States than New Zealand for obvious reasons. We are a lot more involved in everything than New Zealand. As I've mentioned before, I live in a smaller US state that's larger than your entire country. But, I would view Minnesota and New Zealand as being equal in level as far as its position in the world. Minnesota has some say but not as much say as a state like California or New York. Does your country have limousine liberals, movie stars, comedians and musicians playing an active role in its politics? Politics that eliminate jobs, gives preference to certain illegal aliens and dishes out policies as if they're free. If I was king, I would separate this group, give this group what it wants and tax it to death.

I would separate the group, so that the whiners about taxes are taxed to death. Movie stars like Ronald Reagan and comedians like Donald Trump do indeed become active politicians and even get elected president by this group. They eliminate jobs, and depress wages, and dish out billions of freebees to those who already have too much. Yes, this group, called Republicans, maybe should be separated.

Good point

You don't have Republicans in your world. You appear to have three groups of Democrats who are all reliant upon government in one way or another.

(12-29-2016, 02:55 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 08:20 AM)Odin Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 04:28 AM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 04:14 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 03:10 AM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]Wow. That is interesting. You are right about the culture. My reaction when I started to hear more about what went on over there and also chatting to Americans was sort of like whoa! In comparison it is far more aggressive, far more extreme. It has left an impression on me. Americans have told me it is nothing like how it appears online though. People become emboldened and passionate about their thoughts rather than what they show in public apparently. I guess being online is a way to vent out with "seemingly" no consequences....they think. I thought that the 4T was becoming more extreme. Especially after this last election.

Politics has to be more aggressive in the United States than New Zealand for obvious reasons. We are a lot more involved in everything than New Zealand. As I've mentioned before, I live in a smaller US state that's larger than your entire country. But, I would view Minnesota and New Zealand as being equal in level as far as its position in the world. Minnesota has some say but not as much say as a state like California or New York. Does your country have limousine liberals, movie stars, comedians and musicians playing an active role in its politics? Politics that eliminate jobs, gives preference to certain illegal aliens and dishes out policies as if they're free. If I was king, I would separate this group, give this group what it wants and tax it to death.

Hmm politics is pretty quiet here in comparison. Never heard of a limousine lib. But thing is the culture is pretty quiet here too and is not divided in the way I see it divided by politics in America. It is quite strange for me to see in comparison to what I have experienced here. Btw we agree on "preference to illegal aliens" but I also despise what I have learned that here in NZ we let in immigrants and certain ones apparently get a house, car and job. Some brag about it. Now, we have citizens who struggle to get all three things. Why are they favoured? They are cheap labour. I just recently heard that miners here are being paid by a certain company only 3 dollars an hour! That is illegal here in NZ when the average minumum wage for an adult is $15 an hour. Of course they will put up with it because they do not want to return home. And of course they are able to be used in ways that citizens will refuse to put up with. This makes it harder for us to get jobs here. Of course I am concerned also about the housing crisis and naturally I am not impressed that they are given a roof over head when we struggle to get homes too. We need to sort out the crisis here first and tend to the quality of life here for citizens first before anything else in my opinion.

Tara, a big difference between the US and NZ is that we are not an homogeneous culture. If you are interested, I recommend the book American Nations by Colin Woodard. The book goes very in-depth about the different cultural regions of the US and their histories. Here's a book review.


I'm from the region called Yankeedom, which Woodard describes as:

Quote:Founded on the shores of Massachusetts Bay by radical Calvinists as a new Zion, Yankeedom has, since the outset, put great emphasis on perfecting earthly civilization through social engineering, denial of self for the common good, and assimilation of outsiders. It has prized education, intellectual achievement, communal empowerment, and broad citizen participation in politics and government, the latter seen as the public’s shield against the machinations of grasping aristocrats and other would-be tyrants. Since the early Puritans, it has been more comfortable with government regulation and public-sector social projects than many of the other nations, who regard the Yankee utopian streak with trepidation.

A lot of our conservative ideologues here in the US come from Greater Appalachia and the Deep South regions, who generally hate us Yankees.

hmm thank you I will take a look.

Take a close look and see where the hate speech and violence is coming from.

(12-29-2016, 02:49 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 07:53 AM)Odin Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2016, 06:58 PM)taramarie Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2016, 06:27 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]We progressives will fight and demonstrate and write and organize against Drumpf, and Drumpf has promised at his rallies to crack down hard on us and have us carried out on stretchers, beaten up and jailed. It may not be pretty, and people are going to be hurt by Drumpf. Violence may occur on both sides.

This is the reality. The personal behavior here is not the problem, and it's wrong to focus or put energy into it in these posts. Those who do, are just as guilty themselves, if not more so; so it means nothing coming from them at all. The moderator can decide, for better or worse, and we can report what we don't like. That's fine. But what needs correcting is what America did on Nov.8, and for the last 37 years. Let's see THAT corrected, and THEN we can TALK more about respect and love and politeness. The opposition to Trump and the Republicans, if it's polite, will fail. It must be bold and unrelenting.

You can disagree, and claim some kind of moderate or "polite" approach is better, or support the GOP instead. That's a perfectly appropriate viewpoint to take, even if I disagree. It's not a personal issue. There are many points of view, and this is an open forum. I accept that there are other views besides my own. If there weren't, it would get boring here. It's virtually fruitless to spend time posting here, if one hopes to convince people to your view. I understand that too. But at least it's a repository for information that I and others find, and a practice field for writing about it.

It is a problem because it causes people to not listen and do you win battles that way? I do not see it working. Thing is, Eric I agree with you politically. I would make a miserable Republican. I do not relate to them at all. I just am very skeptical about your strategy of convincing others that you are right. Does it work should be the question.

The "listen to everyone's opinions and be nice to each other" mindset is the Artist approach and the lack of an active Artist generation in a 4T is a big reason 4Ts are what they are (and how Artists get that mindset in the first place as children).

Good so they will eventually push America in that way. Btw keep in mind my mother was ahead of her time. Which is why I feel more like a late civic/artist. But my personality type also plays a part in that....ISFP. This makes me happy that with time people will move in this direction and will become a bit more civil for it.

Mom's approach didn't work with bullies. Dad's approach worked better with them. Mom didn't like it but she accepted it after my issue with a bully (bullies in general) went away, so to speak. What's the difference between the "F" of an ISFP and the "T" of an ISTP? Whatever that difference is is part of the differences between us.

I've been busy because of Christmas I split off a bunch of posts that were getting too personal, please knock it off.

(12-29-2016, 12:51 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]How many Minnesotan's would vote to give you a free ride? Minnesotan's aren't that stupid.

The whole notion that people on the Left are "asking for a free ride" is a right-wing straw man. Minnesotans HAVE voted to give help to those who need it, a lot of states don't have something like Minnesota Medical Assistance, or our extremely strong country-funded support systems for people with disabilities.

(12-29-2016, 05:42 PM)Odin Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 12:51 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]How many Minnesotan's would vote to give you a free ride? Minnesotan's aren't that stupid.

The whole notion that people on the Left are "asking for a free ride" is a right-wing straw man.

That's the entire neo-liberal ethos in a nutshell, spoken again here by our friend Classic Xer. You hear it literally everywhere.

(12-29-2016, 05:42 PM)Odin Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 12:51 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]How many Minnesotan's would vote to give you a free ride? Minnesotan's aren't that stupid.

The whole notion that people on the Left are "asking for a free ride" is a right-wing straw man. Minnesotans HAVE voted to give help to those who need it, a lot of states don't have something like Minnesota Medical Assistance, or our extremely strong country-funded support systems for people with disabilities.

You don't pay much attention to what I've learned from years of reading and responding to your posts. Is it a right wing straw man or a belief that you have unknowing contributed to and reinforced many times? I've had direct access to progressives and direct exchanges with them for years and you still believe that I'm getting my information from Sean Hannity/Fox News.

(12-29-2016, 06:10 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 05:42 PM)Odin Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 12:51 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]How many Minnesotan's would vote to give you a free ride? Minnesotan's aren't that stupid.

The whole notion that people on the Left are "asking for a free ride" is a right-wing straw man.

That's the entire neo-liberal ethos in a nutshell, spoken again here by our friend Classic Xer. You hear it literally everywhere.

You've been in for/on the free ride for how many years?

All I want for Christmas is a Merrick Garland recess appointment.

By Frank Vyan Walton
Sunday Dec 25, 2016 · 2:28 PM PST


Merrick Garland on his nominating day - over 300 days ago.


On his way out the Oval Office door there is one thing President Obama can do to give the do-less-than-nothing Congress a big stiff middle finger. Recess appoint Merrick Garland to the U.S. Supreme Court so sayeth the New Republic .

Come January, President Barack Obama will be consigned to the sidelines as Donald Trump occupies the Oval Office and begins the work of dismantling his legacy. But there is one action that Obama could take on January 3, 2017 that could hold off some of the worst potential abuses of a Trump administration for up to a year. Obama can appoint his nominee Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court on that date, in between the two sessions of Congress.

Here’s how it would work. Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution states, “The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate.” This has been used for Supreme Court vacancies before—William Brennan began his Court tenure with a recess appointment in 1956. Any appointments made in this fashion expire at the end of the next Senate session. So a Garland appointment on January 3 would last until December 2017, the end of the first session of the 115th Congress.
Wouldn’t that be awesome?

Obama would have to do it on the January 3rd, because the last time he did a recess appointment it was during a period that the Senate was holding pro-forma sessions, where they would be gaveled in, and then immediately out again by just one Senator every three days, specifically to block the President from making recess appointments. Which is pretty dickish. He made a recess appointment to the National Labor Relations Board anyway and the Senate sued, sending it all the way to the Supreme Court in National Labor Relations Board v. Noel Canning where they decided 9-0 that the appointment was unconstitutional. Therefore he would have to do it during the inter-session recess when the Senate completely finished their current year of congress and the next. And no, that’ isn’t new Theodore Roosevelt used the same break to make hundreds of appointments.

In fact, it’s so not new there are some in congress who are already anticipating exactly this move.

This is a highly aggressive and probably doomed strategy, without question. But we know that Congress understands the potential for inter-session recess appointments because Representative Chris Collins (a member of the Trump transition team) filed a constitutional amendment this year to end them. Collins specifically cited the Garland issue as his justification: “It’s been 111 days since President Obama nominated Merrick Garland for the bench and, while the Senate has continued to hold their ground on proceeding, we need to ensure the president cannot fill this slot—in the form of a recess appointment.”

So it’s not unprecedented, or even unthinkable, it’s perfectly within the powers of the President and it would — for a year at least — put down a major back-stop against the agenda of incoming President-Elect Pepe. Also it would really piss off the GOP Congress, and if anyone deserves to be pissed off, and pissed on, it’s the GOP Congress.

And what’s even more delicious is that if they sue again, and the case again goes to the SCOTUS, it will be a court that will include Merrick Garland on the bench. So he's going to vote to remove himself? Not likely. And the media would lose it’s collective mind because they’d actually have something to talk about besides Trump’s latest, brainless nuclear tipped Tweet!

The Republicans have been stealing the Democrats lunch money with gerrymandering, voter suppressing and blatant obstruction with them hardly complaining about it for far too long. During his time 79 of Obama’s nominees have been blocked or filibustered, contrasted with 68 for all other previous presidents combined.

Enough is enough.

It’s time the Democrats stop bringing a butter-knife to the gun fight. It’s time to fight back, to finally get up when the bullies push you down and punch him right in the nose. Recess appointing Garland to the Supreme Court would be a great big fat well deserved and long needed punch in the nose.

Hit back, Mr. President — what are they gonna do, Impeach you? Make up stories about you? Lie about you? Insult you?

I mean, more than they already have.

Do it!

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/12/...ppointment

(12-29-2016, 06:50 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 06:10 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 05:42 PM)Odin Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2016, 12:51 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]How many Minnesotan's would vote to give you a free ride? Minnesotan's aren't that stupid.

The whole notion that people on the Left are "asking for a free ride" is a right-wing straw man.

That's the entire neo-liberal ethos in a nutshell, spoken again here by our friend Classic Xer. You hear it literally everywhere.

You've been in for/on the free ride for how many years?

I've been waiting, waiting, for 37 years for people like you to wake up from this silly meme that's been forced on you or brainwashed into you. Isn't it time you took a look at it?

"Imagine if you will...."