Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory

TRUMP MOVES ON DEPORTATIONS
People's Action <manager@ourfuture.org>

Trump’s Homeland Security sets policy to allow for increased deportations. NYT:
“Documents released on Tuesday by the Department of Homeland Security revealed the broad scope of the president’s ambitions: to publicize crimes by undocumented immigrants; strip such immigrants of privacy protections; enlist local police officers as enforcers; erect new detention facilities; discourage asylum seekers; and, ultimately, speed up deportations … For now, so-called Dreamers … will not be targeted unless they commit crimes [but] millions of immigrants in the country illegally now face a far greater likelihood of being discovered, arrested and eventually deported.”

Mexico pushes back. Politico:
“The Trump administration riled Mexican officials by choosing Tuesday — on the eve of visits by the U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly to Mexico City — to release sweeping guidelines on deportations and a border wall … It also could hurt America’s ability to gain Mexico’s cooperation on enforcing the new guidelines … When it comes to deportations, for example, ‘you can’t just leave people in the middle of a bridge — this has to be negotiated with the Mexicans,’ said [a U.S.] diplomat…”

Deportations could hurt economy. Bloomberg:
“…one study [is] suggesting that removing all of them would cost the economy as much as $5 trillion over 10 years … [The plan] would hit industries that already complain of worker shortages …”

And housing market. Bloomberg:
“Legal and otherwise, immigrants, long a pillar of growth in homebuying, are no longer feeling the warm welcome and optimism necessary for their biggest purchase … A third of the 11 million unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. live in a home that they or a family member or friend own … New arrivals are expected to account for more than a third of growth of homeowners this decade …

“White House creates confusion about future of Trump’s travel ban” reports Politico:
“The Justice Department told the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals last week that Trump will ‘rescind…and replace’ the original order … But White House press secretary Sean Spicer said at the conclusion of his daily briefing Tuesday that Trump will not rescind the original order. Instead, the first order is being updated … His statements seemed to leave open the possibility that there could be two orders in effect at once — a situation that could complicate efforts to defend the new order in court.”

Speaker Ryan visits border today. Politico:
“The visit comes just weeks before Trump will formally ask Congress for a boatload of money to fund construction of the wall … While waiting on the president’s request, which could reach as much as $20 billion, Republican leaders have discussed moving a border security bill … [But] Trump and Homeland Security have not even finalized their own plan … Democrats on the Congressional Border Caucus, meanwhile, are on a counter-mission, hosting a series of meetings in border towns about how Trump’s wall will harm [their] communities.”

(02-22-2017, 04:50 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]TRUMP MOVES ON DEPORTATIONS
People's Action <manager@ourfuture.org>

Trump’s Homeland Security sets policy to allow for increased deportations. NYT:
“Documents released on Tuesday by the Department of Homeland Security revealed the broad scope of the president’s ambitions: to publicize crimes by undocumented immigrants; strip such immigrants of privacy protections; enlist local police officers as enforcers; erect new detention facilities; discourage asylum seekers; and, ultimately, speed up deportations … For now, so-called Dreamers … will not be targeted unless they commit crimes [but] millions of immigrants in the country illegally now face a far greater likelihood of being discovered, arrested and eventually deported.”

Mexico pushes back. Politico:
“The Trump administration riled Mexican officials by choosing Tuesday — on the eve of visits by the U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly to Mexico City — to release sweeping guidelines on deportations and a border wall … It also could hurt America’s ability to gain Mexico’s cooperation on enforcing the new guidelines … When it comes to deportations, for example, ‘you can’t just leave people in the middle of a bridge — this has to be negotiated with the Mexicans,’ said [a U.S.] diplomat…”

Deportations could hurt economy. Bloomberg:
“…one study [is] suggesting that removing all of them would cost the economy as much as $5 trillion over 10 years … [The plan] would hit industries that already complain of worker shortages …”

And housing market. Bloomberg:
“Legal and otherwise, immigrants, long a pillar of growth in homebuying, are no longer feeling the warm welcome and optimism necessary for their biggest purchase … A third of the 11 million unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. live in a home that they or a family member or friend own … New arrivals are expected to account for more than a third of growth of homeowners this decade …

“White House creates confusion about future of Trump’s travel ban” reports Politico:
“The Justice Department told the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals last week that Trump will ‘rescind…and replace’ the original order … But White House press secretary Sean Spicer said at the conclusion of his daily briefing Tuesday that Trump will not rescind the original order. Instead, the first order is being updated … His statements seemed to leave open the possibility that there could be two orders in effect at once — a situation that could complicate efforts to defend the new order in court.”

Speaker Ryan visits border today. Politico:
“The visit comes just weeks before Trump will formally ask Congress for a boatload of money to fund construction of the wall … While waiting on the president’s request, which could reach as much as $20 billion, Republican leaders have discussed moving a border security bill … [But] Trump and Homeland Security have not even finalized their own plan … Democrats on the Congressional Border Caucus, meanwhile, are on a counter-mission, hosting a series of meetings in border towns about how Trump’s wall will harm [their] communities.”

Let's get to clarity on this.  

1.  Proper wording.   If somebody crosses the border, that person is an illegal alien and needs to be shipped back to the country of origin.  Eric, those people are breaking the law. My ancestors from the Åland Islands came to the US legally. I even have copies of their immigration records on hand. I do not like anarchy in any form. The US is a country where the principle of "a nation of laws" is applicable.

2. Publicize crimes.  Easy, I agree with the Trump administration on this one point. The US "inn" should have a sign with "no vacancy". Again, global warming will certainly affect the carrying capacity of the territory known as the "United States". There is no frontier. There are no job vacancies. The US needs to learn from the clusterfuck in Europe. A wall is humane, while a mine field isn't. Now, I agree the war on drugs is messing with Mexico's internal affairs and should be ended. I have no problem with planned parenthood providing birth control services worldwide due to population overshoot.

3. Illegal aliens / privacy concerns.  OK, they can just stop coming to the US to begin with, OK? They are not citizens.

4. Deportation. Yes, Mexico has a point. All illegal aliens need to be deported to their country of origin, not just a default to Mexico.

5. Worker shortages:  What the hell is this shit all about?  Here's what will happen if the supply of illegals is shut off.
a. The employers will have to raise wages to get American citizens to take said jobs.  The other option is that said employers must automate said jobs with robots. Why the fuck should I have to pay for illegals alien children to attend school? I'm already hard up.

6. I do agree with Mexico that they should not pay for the wall. The US has an interest in said wall. Mexico does not. I have no issue paying extra taxes to get the wall done.

7. I do not want to subsidize employers through taxes employers hiring labor on the cheap.  Fuck them. They can either pay up wages, buy robots, or just go bust. I do not want to subsidize these leaches.

8. The same goes for the H1-B rot.  Shut this fucking bullshit down, and do it now!  H1-B's fucked me out of a job. Damn outsourcers and high tech industry to hell. Any company that uses H1-B's to replace US citizens with H1-B's to can just go fuck themselves. I hate,hate,hate, the H1-B program. Shut it down, shut it down. I want these greedy motherfucker tech companies to pay.

8. Housing.  As I always said, housing is a consumer durable, not a fucking asset. If anyone is counting on their house to be an asset, they're just a fucking moron who buys into the "house is an asset" propaganda.

(02-22-2017, 07:30 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-22-2017, 04:50 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]TRUMP MOVES ON DEPORTATIONS
People's Action <manager@ourfuture.org>

Trump’s Homeland Security sets policy to allow for increased deportations. NYT:
“Documents released on Tuesday by the Department of Homeland Security revealed the broad scope of the president’s ambitions: to publicize crimes by undocumented immigrants; strip such immigrants of privacy protections; enlist local police officers as enforcers; erect new detention facilities; discourage asylum seekers; and, ultimately, speed up deportations … For now, so-called Dreamers … will not be targeted unless they commit crimes [but] millions of immigrants in the country illegally now face a far greater likelihood of being discovered, arrested and eventually deported.”

Mexico pushes back. Politico:
“The Trump administration riled Mexican officials by choosing Tuesday — on the eve of visits by the U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly to Mexico City — to release sweeping guidelines on deportations and a border wall … It also could hurt America’s ability to gain Mexico’s cooperation on enforcing the new guidelines … When it comes to deportations, for example, ‘you can’t just leave people in the middle of a bridge — this has to be negotiated with the Mexicans,’ said [a U.S.] diplomat…”

Deportations could hurt economy. Bloomberg:
“…one study [is] suggesting that removing all of them would cost the economy as much as $5 trillion over 10 years … [The plan] would hit industries that already complain of worker shortages …”

And housing market. Bloomberg:
“Legal and otherwise, immigrants, long a pillar of growth in homebuying, are no longer feeling the warm welcome and optimism necessary for their biggest purchase … A third of the 11 million unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. live in a home that they or a family member or friend own … New arrivals are expected to account for more than a third of growth of homeowners this decade …

“White House creates confusion about future of Trump’s travel ban” reports Politico:
“The Justice Department told the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals last week that Trump will ‘rescind…and replace’ the original order … But White House press secretary Sean Spicer said at the conclusion of his daily briefing Tuesday that Trump will not rescind the original order. Instead, the first order is being updated … His statements seemed to leave open the possibility that there could be two orders in effect at once — a situation that could complicate efforts to defend the new order in court.”

Speaker Ryan visits border today. Politico:
“The visit comes just weeks before Trump will formally ask Congress for a boatload of money to fund construction of the wall … While waiting on the president’s request, which could reach as much as $20 billion, Republican leaders have discussed moving a border security bill … [But] Trump and Homeland Security have not even finalized their own plan … Democrats on the Congressional Border Caucus, meanwhile, are on a counter-mission, hosting a series of meetings in border towns about how Trump’s wall will harm [their] communities.”

Let's get to clarity on this.  

OK, clarity is good. Let's see what we can do.

Quote:1.  Proper wording.   If somebody crosses the border, that person is an illegal alien and needs to be shipped back to the country of origin.  Eric, those people are breaking the law. My ancestors from the Åland Islands came to the US legally. I even have copies of their immigration records on hand. I do not like anarchy in any form. The US is a country where the principle of "a nation of laws" is applicable.

Illegality is not popular. However, proper perspective is needed. Illegal border crossing is a misdemeanor, as far as I can tell. Rounding up illegal aliens without a proper hearing, as Trump seems to be doing, is also illegal. Trump promised to deport criminal illegals. I'd rather he kept his promise than to do what he's been doing. But, fat chance of Drump keeping his promises. The Republicans would rather impose an expensive and cruel deportation than to pass the real bipartisan immigration reform that was offered, so that illegals could pay a fine and qualify for the citizenship they want.

Quote:2. Publicize crimes.  Easy, I agree with the Trump administration on this one point. The US "inn" should have a sign with "no vacancy". Again, global warming will certainly affect the carrying capacity of the territory known as the "United States". There is no frontier. There are no job vacancies. The US needs to learn from the clusterfuck in Europe. A wall is humane, while a mine field isn't. Now, I agree the war on drugs is messing with Mexico's internal affairs and should be ended. I have no problem with planned parenthood providing birth control services worldwide due to population overshoot.

Again, illegal aliens are not threatening your jobs. Legal ones; possibly. But white people don't do the jobs illegals do. And they are needed for the economy to work. That's a consideration. Mass deportation could cause a recession. This time, the USA has no tools to get out of one anymore. Great recessions hurt everybody. Immigration is not to blame for our economic woes. Immigrants power the economy.

Quote:3. Illegal aliens / privacy concerns.  OK, they can just stop coming to the US to begin with, OK? They are not citizens.

4. Deportation. Yes, Mexico has a point. All illegal aliens need to be deported to their country of origin, not just a default to Mexico.

5. Worker shortages:  What the hell is this shit all about?  Here's what will happen if the supply of illegals is shut off.
a. The employers will have to raise wages to get American citizens to take said jobs.  The other option is that said employers must automate said jobs with robots. Why the fuck should I have to pay for illegals alien children to attend school? I'm already hard up.

Education helps you economically. Not just your own; anyone's who is here. Wages would have to go very high for Americans to take those jobs, assuming they ever would. That would strain the economy too. Illegals already get enough from those jobs to make a decent living. That doesn't seem to be the issue. Americans don't pay more for goods than they have to; raising the price of food sky high would drive American farmers out of business. Just more outsourcing. The Dream Act? Much better. Just impose a fine and require then to work.

Quote:6. I do agree with Mexico that they should not pay for the wall. The US has an interest in said wall. Mexico does not. I have no issue paying extra taxes to get the wall done.

That was just a campaign slogan to arouse the crowd. Demagogues do that.

Quote:7. I do not want to subsidize employers through taxes employers hiring labor on the cheap.  Fuck them. They can either pay up wages, buy robots, or just go bust. I do not want to subsidize these leaches.

Not sure what you are subsidizing. All workers should get what they are entitled to, legal or not.

Quote:8. The same goes for the H1-B rot.  Shut this fucking bullshit down, and do it now!  H1-B's fucked me out of a job. Damn outsourcers and high tech industry to hell. Any company that uses H1-B's to replace US citizens with H1-B's to can just go fuck themselves. I hate,hate,hate, the H1-B program. Shut it down, shut it down. I want these greedy motherfucker tech companies to pay.

I understand your feelings. Maybe it should be shut down. But if Americans are going to take those jobs, they need to be qualified and educated for them. But as George Carlin points out correctly, the PTB don't want an educated American public; that's not in their interest. So, we're stuck.

Quote:8. Housing.  As I always said, housing is a consumer durable, not a fucking asset. If anyone is counting on their house to be an asset, they're just a fucking moron who buys into the "house is an asset" propaganda.

Quite correct; no comment.

(02-22-2017, 08:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]<Snip stuff that seems redundant.  Feel free to correct this if desired.>

Let's get to clarity on this.  

OK, clarity is good. Let's see what we can do.

Quote:1.  Proper wording.   If somebody crosses the border, that person is an illegal alien and needs to be shipped back to the country of origin.  Eric, those people are breaking the law. My ancestors from the Åland Islands came to the US legally. I even have copies of their immigration records on hand. I do not like anarchy in any form. The US is a country where the principle of "a nation of laws" is applicable.

Illegality is not popular. However, proper perspective is needed. Illegal border crossing is a misdemeanor, as far as I can tell. Rounding up illegal aliens without a proper hearing, as Trump seems to be doing, is also illegal. Trump promised to deport criminal illegals. I'd rather he kept his promise than to do what he's been doing. But, fat chance of Drump keeping his promises. The Republicans would rather impose an expensive and cruel deportation than to pass the real bipartisan immigration reform that was offered, so that illegals could pay a fine and qualify for the citizenship they want.

Quote:2. Publicize crimes.  Easy, I agree with the Trump administration on this one point. The US "inn" should have a sign with "no vacancy". Again, global warming will certainly affect the carrying capacity of the territory known as the "United States". There is no frontier. There are no job vacancies. The US needs to learn from the clusterfuck in Europe. A wall is humane, while a mine field isn't. Now, I agree the war on drugs is messing with Mexico's internal affairs and should be ended. I have no problem with planned parenthood providing birth control services worldwide due to population overshoot.

Again, illegal aliens are not threatening your jobs. Legal ones; possibly. But white people don't do the jobs illegals do. And they are needed for the economy to work. That's a consideration. Mass deportation could cause a recession. This time, the USA has no tools to get out of one anymore. Great recessions hurt everybody. Immigration is not to blame for our economic woes. Immigrants power the economy.

Quote:3. Illegal aliens / privacy concerns.  OK, they can just stop coming to the US to begin with, OK? They are not citizens.

4. Deportation. Yes, Mexico has a point. All illegal aliens need to be deported to their country of origin, not just a default to Mexico.

5. Worker shortages:  What the hell is this shit all about?  Here's what will happen if the supply of illegals is shut off.
a. The employers will have to raise wages to get American citizens to take said jobs.  The other option is that said employers must automate said jobs with robots. Why the fuck should I have to pay for illegals alien children to attend school?  I'm already hard up.

Education helps you economically. Not just your own; anyone's who is here. Wages would have to go very high for Americans to take those jobs, assuming they ever would. That would strain the economy too. Illegals already get enough from those jobs to make a decent living. That doesn't seem to be the issue. Americans don't pay more for goods than they have to; raising the price of food sky high would drive American farmers out of business. Just more outsourcing. The Dream Act? Much better. Just impose a fine and require then to work.

Quote:6. I do agree with Mexico that they should not pay for the wall. The US has an interest in said wall. Mexico does not. I have no issue paying extra taxes to get the wall done.

That was just a campaign slogan to arouse the crowd. Demagogues do that.

Quote:7. I do not want to subsidize employers through taxes employers hiring labor on the cheap.  Fuck them. They can either pay up wages, buy robots, or just go bust. I do not want to subsidize these leaches.

Not sure what you are subsidizing. All workers should get what they are entitled to, legal or not.

Quote:8. The same goes for the H1-B rot.  Shut this fucking bullshit down, and do it now!  H1-B's fucked me out of a job. Damn outsourcers and high tech industry to hell. Any company that uses H1-B's to replace US citizens with H1-B's to can just go fuck themselves. I hate,hate,hate, the H1-B program. Shut it down, shut it down. I want these greedy motherfucker tech companies to pay.

I understand your feelings. Maybe it should be shut down. But if Americans are going to take those jobs, they need to be qualified and educated for them. But as George Carlin points out correctly, the PTB don't want an educated American public; that's not in their interest. So, we're stuck.

Quote:8. Housing.  As I always said, housing is a consumer durable, not a fucking asset. If anyone is counting on their house to be an asset, they're just a fucking moron who buys into the "house is an asset" propaganda.

Quite correct; no comment.

1. Illegal aliens/ due process. 
a. Yes, it's a misdemeanor.
b. Proper funding should be provided to handle the deportation process according to law. I have no problem with appropriations to do it right.

2. Let's go back in time a bit, at least how things worked where I live.  An example would be the hot/labor intensive job of hay hauling. Back in the day, us teenagers hauled hay. I know folks who did this. I'd say the problem isn't really racial, but job availability.  I dare say that fruit picking is a tad less labor intensive than that. If we go back to the 1930's , California got lots of Okies to pick stuff. So, if wages rose such that folks could get wages paid above the table, things would work out. So, it's greedy farmers who exploit illegal aliens on the cheap. As for food prices, yeah sure, they'd go up. However that means there'd be no displaced externalities. That means for example that the right folks would be paying for schools.

3. White people won't do the jobs... even if they're unemployed.  Yes, that's a problem. If wages rise due to the lack of cheap labor, then the exploiters will have to pay up, right? At least they should pay.  In fact, I'd slap some heavy fines on said exploiters. I'd fine their asses off.  Here's a job description of some local meat packers. Workers MUST put up with cold temperatures, carry heavy stuff, etc. Now, if the supply of labor falls, then they might get a clue. Either improve labor conditions or suffer a labor shortage.

4. Yes, legal H1-B's did fuck stuff up.  That's why I'd like to put the ca-bosh on that.  H1-B's are a legal way to hire cheap labor to replace US labor. That is why I'd love to destroy it. Dunno... I have a vendetta on that.  Training's a joke. Here's the problem. If you're over 40, like I said before, any IT job is toast. As for great recessions, perhaps, but it's a price to pay to get multinats to pay up with higher wages. I have no problem holding a gun to Google/Amazon/Facefuck's/etc.  heads. It goes like this, either hire US STEM folks or go bust. Here's what I really, really want to happen:  I want mass desperation in the IT field such that the multinats will bet and cry to get US workers retrained without a huge student loan debt.  Yeah, that's the ticket.  I admit I have a deep seated vendetta going.  Fuckerberg, Bezembezzle, Mayer, etc. need to cry out for mercy.   Yeah, I have a special place in hell for SAIC who H1-B'd me.  If I had my way, I'd ban that company from any future government contracts. Yes, I would, if I could, I'd pull any legal lever to destroy that company. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.  I want anyone who reads this to feel my rage. I want to rake SAIC over a bed of coals, I want all executives of said company to die. Rats and roaches are far, far more worthy of the biomass than those fuckers.

5. Education.  Well now.  I'm 54 and if I do the math, a student loan at my age is a disaster.  Here's how it works. The worth of an education falls as one ages. I have only something like 12 years before Social Security with full benefits. [Unless the Republicans fuck this up. ] I'd also add that the canard of "retraining" is a joke. I fail to see where retraining gets anyone anywhere.  Germany has a better model, but we're talking Neoliberalism in the US.  The usual process here in the US is either fake retraining or some sort of dead end.  I know this is fucked up which is why I don't bother. I'd rather just coast along with a rinky dink minimum wage job that at least has a positive income stream than some sort of fake dream land.  I really don't think retraining in say cyber-security would work in the US.  I know I'm smart enough and have a basic background, but the debt to get there is prohibitive . That's even knowing  that's a hot field.  You're right, PTB apparently wants stupid even though at times it's them who suffer.  Penny wise, pound foolish.

6. Yeah, I'm venting... I have far more hatred towards mulinats if that accounts for anything.

(02-22-2017, 09:14 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-22-2017, 08:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]<Snip stuff that seems redundant.  Feel free to correct this if desired.>

Let's get to clarity on this.  

OK, clarity is good. Let's see what we can do.

Quote:1.  Proper wording.   If somebody crosses the border, that person is an illegal alien and needs to be shipped back to the country of origin.  Eric, those people are breaking the law. My ancestors from the Åland Islands came to the US legally. I even have copies of their immigration records on hand. I do not like anarchy in any form. The US is a country where the principle of "a nation of laws" is applicable.

Illegality is not popular. However, proper perspective is needed. Illegal border crossing is a misdemeanor, as far as I can tell. Rounding up illegal aliens without a proper hearing, as Trump seems to be doing, is also illegal. Trump promised to deport criminal illegals. I'd rather he kept his promise than to do what he's been doing. But, fat chance of Drump keeping his promises. The Republicans would rather impose an expensive and cruel deportation than to pass the real bipartisan immigration reform that was offered, so that illegals could pay a fine and qualify for the citizenship they want.

Quote:2. Publicize crimes.  Easy, I agree with the Trump administration on this one point. The US "inn" should have a sign with "no vacancy". Again, global warming will certainly affect the carrying capacity of the territory known as the "United States". There is no frontier. There are no job vacancies. The US needs to learn from the clusterfuck in Europe. A wall is humane, while a mine field isn't. Now, I agree the war on drugs is messing with Mexico's internal affairs and should be ended. I have no problem with planned parenthood providing birth control services worldwide due to population overshoot.

Again, illegal aliens are not threatening your jobs. Legal ones; possibly. But white people don't do the jobs illegals do. And they are needed for the economy to work. That's a consideration. Mass deportation could cause a recession. This time, the USA has no tools to get out of one anymore. Great recessions hurt everybody. Immigration is not to blame for our economic woes. Immigrants power the economy.

Quote:3. Illegal aliens / privacy concerns.  OK, they can just stop coming to the US to begin with, OK? They are not citizens.

4. Deportation. Yes, Mexico has a point. All illegal aliens need to be deported to their country of origin, not just a default to Mexico.

5. Worker shortages:  What the hell is this shit all about?  Here's what will happen if the supply of illegals is shut off.
a. The employers will have to raise wages to get American citizens to take said jobs.  The other option is that said employers must automate said jobs with robots. Why the fuck should I have to pay for illegals alien children to attend school?  I'm already hard up.

Education helps you economically. Not just your own; anyone's who is here. Wages would have to go very high for Americans to take those jobs, assuming they ever would. That would strain the economy too. Illegals already get enough from those jobs to make a decent living. That doesn't seem to be the issue. Americans don't pay more for goods than they have to; raising the price of food sky high would drive American farmers out of business. Just more outsourcing. The Dream Act? Much better. Just impose a fine and require then to work.

Quote:6. I do agree with Mexico that they should not pay for the wall. The US has an interest in said wall. Mexico does not. I have no issue paying extra taxes to get the wall done.

That was just a campaign slogan to arouse the crowd. Demagogues do that.

Quote:7. I do not want to subsidize employers through taxes employers hiring labor on the cheap.  Fuck them. They can either pay up wages, buy robots, or just go bust. I do not want to subsidize these leaches.

Not sure what you are subsidizing. All workers should get what they are entitled to, legal or not.

Quote:8. The same goes for the H1-B rot.  Shut this fucking bullshit down, and do it now!  H1-B's fucked me out of a job. Damn outsourcers and high tech industry to hell. Any company that uses H1-B's to replace US citizens with H1-B's to can just go fuck themselves. I hate,hate,hate, the H1-B program. Shut it down, shut it down. I want these greedy motherfucker tech companies to pay.

I understand your feelings. Maybe it should be shut down. But if Americans are going to take those jobs, they need to be qualified and educated for them. But as George Carlin points out correctly, the PTB don't want an educated American public; that's not in their interest. So, we're stuck.

Quote:8. Housing.  As I always said, housing is a consumer durable, not a fucking asset. If anyone is counting on their house to be an asset, they're just a fucking moron who buys into the "house is an asset" propaganda.

Quite correct; no comment.

1. Illegal aliens/ due process. 
a. Yes, it's a misdemeanor.
b. Proper funding should be provided to handle the deportation process according to law. I have no problem with appropriations to do it right.

That's good, but the real problem is the scale of deportations Drump has embarked on. He's now after everybody. That's very selective, random and unfair unless you plan to deport millions of people. That will be expensive and dangerous to the economy no matter how you slice and dice it.

Obama had already solved the immigration problem, or proposed realistic solutions to those already here. Illegal immigration has gone way down for years now. Smuggling is less likely to succeed already. Trump's actions are nothing but fulfilling demagogic campaign rhetoric. It gives vent to the rage of old white Americans, but beyond that it accomplishes exactly nothing.

Quote:2. Let's go back in time a bit, at least how things worked where I live.  An example would be the hot/labor intensive job of hay hauling. Back in the day, us teenagers hauled hay. I know folks who did this. I'd say the problem isn't really racial, but job availability.  I dare say that fruit picking is a tad less labor intensive than that. If we go back to the 1930's , California got lots of Okies to pick stuff. So, if wages rose such that folks could get wages paid above the table, things would work out. So, it's greedy farmers who exploit illegal aliens on the cheap. As for food prices, yeah sure, they'd go up. However that means there'd be no displaced externalities. That means for example that the right folks would be paying for schools.

3. White people won't do (those) jobs... even if they're unemployed.  Yes, that's a problem. If wages rise due to the lack of cheap labor, then the exploiters will have to pay up, right? At least they should pay.  In fact, I'd slap some heavy fines on said exploiters. I'd fine their asses off.  Here's a job description of some local meat packers. Workers MUST put up with cold temperatures, carry heavy stuff, etc. Now, if the supply of labor falls, then they might get a clue. Either improve labor conditions or suffer a labor shortage.

I just don't think blaming immigrants is going to create a labor shortage to be filled by Americans. Trump's strategy could create a deep recession soon. It looks like he's going full bore with it. Very cruel and hurtful. A lot of those deportees are going to die. This is not the USA represented by the Statue of Liberty. People sent back to Honduras and Guatemala are being sent back to countries with no better situations than Chad or Libya. Shameful.

Trump promised new trade deals. The TV pundits uniformly assume that TPP was a good deal and that tariffs are trade wars. I don't understand this at all. Why must free trade be such a dogma among pundits? Tariffs were the norm through most of history. Some mild tariffs just might work to keep companies from moving to Mexico and selling the work of cheap labor back to us.

Trump is not doing well at making such a deal. Insulting and deporting people is not a good diplomatic tactic. A level-headed president who focused on trade deals instead of deportations might actually get a deal that would encourage companies to stay and hire more workers at higher wages. Talk about "reducing the trade deficit" without tariffs, as one pundit said tonight on Charlie Rose, is a mystery to me. I don't see what can be done without tariffs. Trump's other tactics of reducing regulations that the people need to keep them safe, and lowering taxes on the wealthy, are not likely to pump up the economy as Republicans and stock traders believe. Neo-liberalism is a failure, and the fact that people don't know this yet, after 40 years of it, is also a failure.

Quote:4. Yes, legal H1-B's did fuck stuff up.  That's why I'd like to put the ca-bosh on that.  H1-B's are a legal way to hire cheap labor to replace US labor. That is why I'd love to destroy it. Dunno... I have a vendetta on that.  Training's a joke. Here's the problem. If you're over 40, like I said before, any IT job is toast. As for great recessions, perhaps, but it's a price to pay to get multinats to pay up with higher wages. I have no problem holding a gun to Google/Amazon/Facefuck's/etc. heads. It goes like this, either hire US STEM folks or go bust. Here's what I really, really want to happen:  I want mass desperation in the IT field such that the multinats will bet and cry to get US workers retrained without a huge student loan debt.  Yeah, that's the ticket.  I admit I have a deep seated vendetta going.  Fuckerberg, Bezembezzle, Mayer, etc. need to cry out for mercy.   Yeah, I have a special place in hell for SAIC who H1-B'd me.  If I had my way, I'd ban that company from any future government contracts. Yes, I would, if I could, I'd pull any legal lever to destroy that company. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.  I want anyone who reads this to feel my rage. I want to rake SAIC over a bed of coals, I want all executives of said company to die. Rats and roaches are far, far more worthy of the biomass than those fuckers.

I assume you mean Science Applications International Corporation? I wish it were true that we as individuals had the power to assign people to hell according to our wishes. I hear your pain. Maybe there's another company that would hire you. You seem able to comprehend lots of abstract stuff that I can't. Rage is probably not the best living strategy though. You middle-aged guys in red states aren't doing too well with it. But I don't like H1-B. Lots of folks here in silicon valley are taking the jobs Americans could do, presumably-- including google and facefuck.

Quote:5. Education.  Well now.  I'm 54 and if I do the math, a student loan at my age is a disaster.  Here's how it works. The worth of an education falls as one ages. I have only something like 12 years before Social Security with full benefits. [Unless the Republicans fuck this up. ] I'd also add that the canard of "retraining" is a joke. I fail to see where retraining gets anyone anywhere.  Germany has a better model, but we're talking Neoliberalism in the US.  The usual process here in the US is either fake retraining or some sort of dead end.  I know this is fucked up which is why I don't bother. I'd rather just coast along with a rinky dink minimum wage job that at least has a positive income stream than some sort of fake dream land.  I really don't think retraining in say cyber-security would work in the US.  I know I'm smart enough and have a basic background, but the debt to get there is prohibitive . That's even knowing  that's a hot field.  You're right, PTB apparently wants stupid even though at times it's them who suffer.  Penny wise, pound foolish.

6. Yeah, I'm venting... I have far more hatred towards mulinats if that accounts for anything.

Multinats are generally at-least borderline criminal organizations in my book. Neo-liberalism is their enabler. Republicans and Libertarians are true believers; Democrats are not, but DINOs are. Trump's guys are already aiming to repeal social security; they might succeed. Remember George Carlin predicted this. Watch that video please if you haven't already. It is soothing to the soul to hear someone rant as loudly as you and I do.

The other question is: who selected the senators that confirmed these Bannonite assholes?

Bannon Admits Trump's Cabinet Nominees Were Selected To Destroy Their Agencies.
Feb 23, 2017 1:27pm PST by Dartagnan
http://m.dailykos.com/story/2017/2/23/16...he-Country



At CPAC today Stephen Bannon, the Chief Advisor and intellectual heft behind the Twittering infant that sits in the Oval Office, provided a little glimpse of the future he has planned for all of us.

In the clearest explanation for why nearly all of Trump’s cabinet choices are known mostly for despising and attacking the very Federal agencies they’ve been designated to lead, Bannon explained—in very clear language--that they weren't appointed to lead these agencies, but to destroy them:

Atop Trump’s agenda, Bannon said, was the “deconstruction of the administrative state” — meaning a system of taxes, regulations and trade pacts that the president and his advisers believe stymie economic growth and infringe upon one’s sovereignty.

“If you look at these Cabinet nominees, they were selected for a reason, and that is deconstruction,” Bannon said. He posited that Trump’s announcement withdrawing from the Trans-Pacific Partnership was “one of the most pivotal moments in modern American history.”

The wholesale elimination of Federal agencies that ensure we receive such things as clean air, clean water, fair labor laws, fair housing standards, anti-discrimination laws, financial regulations, food and drug safety, national education standards and the like, has been a goal of far right “thinkers" for decades. The rationale, propagated by corporate and industry-funded think tanks such as the Heritage Foundation, has always been that that the existence of these “unelected" agencies represents a mortal threat to American “sovereignty and self-government." This is exactly the line Bannon was peddling at CPAC today. It is delusional, right-wing garbage.

The reality is that these extensions of the Executive Branch—the Department of Labor, the Department of Health and Human Services, the Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of Education, for example-- exist to serve the interests of all the American people, performing the painstaking and complex task of regulating the very things that make all Americans’ lives worth living. They perform this function because history has clearly shown that neither the Congress nor the states are remotely up to the task of doing it. They have neither the time, the expertise, the manpower, or the ability to handle such mammoth responsibilities in a country of 330 million people.

For example, these are the Department of Labor’s core functions:

The purpose of the Department of Labor is to foster, promote, and develop the welfare of the wage earners, job seekers, and retirees of the United States; improve working conditions; advance opportunities for profitable employment; and assure work-related benefits and rights. In carrying out this mission, the Department of Labor administers and enforces more than 180 federal laws and thousands of federal regulations. These mandates and the regulations that implement them cover many workplace activities for about 10 million employers and 125 million workers.

When EPA responds to a massive toxic waste spill or a Deepwater Horizon explosion, or simply tells a coal company that it can’t pollute the surrounding air and water with its carcinogens, it is taking on a task on behalf of all Americans, not just the locals who happen to be affected. When the Department of Health and Human Services administers a nationwide program of medical care for the elderly, it is responding to the needs of all Americans, not just the well-off.

The nature of “Federal” agencies is just that—to preserve uniformity throughout the country so that (in theory at least) no single state or locality is treated with preference over others. The hundreds of thousands of people who work for these agencies are there because of their expertise and their dedication. They are not politicians. They are not “elected." But they do work for all of us.

Bannon knows that there is no realistic substitute for these Federal agencies. When Bannon talks about dismantling the "Administrative state,” what he's really talking about is allowing corporations and industry the absolute right to do whatever they want, whenever and wherever they want, regardless of its harmful impact on American citizens. “Deconstruction," in the pie-in-the sky fevered dreams of the Heritage Foundation, means exactly what it sounds like. He’s talking about complete corporate predation, the absolute elimination of our ability as citizens to halt corporate malfeasance. In essence, he’s talking about corporate-enforced slavery.

Bannon is a fanatic, a clear and present danger to the America we all know and care about. Unfortunately, his fanaticism, poured into the ear of someone as fundamentally incurious and vain as Donald Trump, brings us closer to the wholesale destruction of this country than any of us could have expected in our lifetimes.

(02-23-2017, 07:53 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Atop Trump’s agenda, Bannon said, was the “deconstruction of the administrative state” — meaning a system of taxes, regulations and trade pacts that the president and his advisers believe stymie economic growth and infringe upon one’s sovereignty.

“If you look at these Cabinet nominees, they were selected for a reason, and that is deconstruction,” Bannon said. He posited that Trump’s announcement withdrawing from the Trans-Pacific Partnership was “one of the most pivotal moments in modern American history.”

I am not having a problem with this, it is long past time that the Federal Government was put on a very strict diet.

Because the Gilded Age was so great. Bring back child labor! Bring back polluted air and water! Bring back contaminated food! /sarcasm

Just admit it, Galen, you want the corporations to rule over us like feudal lords. "Liberty" for the Oligarchy, misery and oppression for everyone else.

(02-24-2017, 03:28 AM)Galen Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-23-2017, 07:53 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Atop Trump’s agenda, Bannon said, was the “deconstruction of the administrative state” — meaning a system of taxes, regulations and trade pacts that the president and his advisers believe stymie economic growth and infringe upon one’s sovereignty.

“If you look at these Cabinet nominees, they were selected for a reason, and that is deconstruction,” Bannon said. He posited that Trump’s announcement withdrawing from the Trans-Pacific Partnership was “one of the most pivotal moments in modern American history.”

I am not having a problem with this, it is long past time that the Federal Government was put on a very strict.

May I suggest this book for you?



https://www.amazon.com/Good-Old-Days-The...0394709411

(02-24-2017, 03:28 AM)Galen Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-23-2017, 07:53 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Atop Trump’s agenda, Bannon said, was the “deconstruction of the administrative state” — meaning a system of taxes, regulations and trade pacts that the president and his advisers believe stymie economic growth and infringe upon one’s sovereignty.

“If you look at these Cabinet nominees, they were selected for a reason, and that is deconstruction,” Bannon said. He posited that Trump’s announcement withdrawing from the Trans-Pacific Partnership was “one of the most pivotal moments in modern American history.”

I am not having a problem with this, it is long past time that the Federal Government was put on a very strict.

I wouldn't expect you to have a problem with this.

(02-23-2017, 12:56 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-22-2017, 09:14 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-22-2017, 08:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]<Snip stuff that seems redundant.  Feel free to correct this if desired.>

Let's get to clarity on this.  

OK, clarity is good. Let's see what we can do.

Quote:1.  Proper wording.   If somebody crosses the border, that person is an illegal alien and needs to be shipped back to the country of origin.  Eric, those people are breaking the law. My ancestors from the Åland Islands came to the US legally. I even have copies of their immigration records on hand. I do not like anarchy in any form. The US is a country where the principle of "a nation of laws" is applicable.

Illegality is not popular. However, proper perspective is needed. Illegal border crossing is a misdemeanor, as far as I can tell. Rounding up illegal aliens without a proper hearing, as Trump seems to be doing, is also illegal. Trump promised to deport criminal illegals. I'd rather he kept his promise than to do what he's been doing. But, fat chance of Drump keeping his promises. The Republicans would rather impose an expensive and cruel deportation than to pass the real bipartisan immigration reform that was offered, so that illegals could pay a fine and qualify for the citizenship they want.

Quote:2. Publicize crimes.  Easy, I agree with the Trump administration on this one point. The US "inn" should have a sign with "no vacancy". Again, global warming will certainly affect the carrying capacity of the territory known as the "United States". There is no frontier. There are no job vacancies. The US needs to learn from the clusterfuck in Europe. A wall is humane, while a mine field isn't. Now, I agree the war on drugs is messing with Mexico's internal affairs and should be ended. I have no problem with planned parenthood providing birth control services worldwide due to population overshoot.

Again, illegal aliens are not threatening your jobs. Legal ones; possibly. But white people don't do the jobs illegals do. And they are needed for the economy to work. That's a consideration. Mass deportation could cause a recession. This time, the USA has no tools to get out of one anymore. Great recessions hurt everybody. Immigration is not to blame for our economic woes. Immigrants power the economy.

Quote:3. Illegal aliens / privacy concerns.  OK, they can just stop coming to the US to begin with, OK? They are not citizens.

4. Deportation. Yes, Mexico has a point. All illegal aliens need to be deported to their country of origin, not just a default to Mexico.

5. Worker shortages:  What the hell is this shit all about?  Here's what will happen if the supply of illegals is shut off.
a. The employers will have to raise wages to get American citizens to take said jobs.  The other option is that said employers must automate said jobs with robots. Why the fuck should I have to pay for illegals alien children to attend school?  I'm already hard up.

Education helps you economically. Not just your own; anyone's who is here. Wages would have to go very high for Americans to take those jobs, assuming they ever would. That would strain the economy too. Illegals already get enough from those jobs to make a decent living. That doesn't seem to be the issue. Americans don't pay more for goods than they have to; raising the price of food sky high would drive American farmers out of business. Just more outsourcing. The Dream Act? Much better. Just impose a fine and require then to work.

Quote:6. I do agree with Mexico that they should not pay for the wall. The US has an interest in said wall. Mexico does not. I have no issue paying extra taxes to get the wall done.

That was just a campaign slogan to arouse the crowd. Demagogues do that.

Quote:7. I do not want to subsidize employers through taxes employers hiring labor on the cheap.  Fuck them. They can either pay up wages, buy robots, or just go bust. I do not want to subsidize these leaches.

Not sure what you are subsidizing. All workers should get what they are entitled to, legal or not.

Quote:8. The same goes for the H1-B rot.  Shut this fucking bullshit down, and do it now!  H1-B's fucked me out of a job. Damn outsourcers and high tech industry to hell. Any company that uses H1-B's to replace US citizens with H1-B's to can just go fuck themselves. I hate,hate,hate, the H1-B program. Shut it down, shut it down. I want these greedy motherfucker tech companies to pay.

I understand your feelings. Maybe it should be shut down. But if Americans are going to take those jobs, they need to be qualified and educated for them. But as George Carlin points out correctly, the PTB don't want an educated American public; that's not in their interest. So, we're stuck.

Quote:8. Housing.  As I always said, housing is a consumer durable, not a fucking asset. If anyone is counting on their house to be an asset, they're just a fucking moron who buys into the "house is an asset" propaganda.

Quite correct; no comment.

1. Illegal aliens/ due process. 
a. Yes, it's a misdemeanor.
b. Proper funding should be provided to handle the deportation process according to law. I have no problem with appropriations to do it right.

That's good, but the real problem is the scale of deportations Drump has embarked on. He's now after everybody. That's very selective, random and unfair unless you plan to deport millions of people. That will be expensive and dangerous to the economy no matter how you slice and dice it.

Obama had already solved the immigration problem, or proposed realistic solutions to those already here. Illegal immigration has gone way down for years now. Smuggling is less likely to succeed already. Trump's actions are nothing but fulfilling demagogic campaign rhetoric. It gives vent to the rage of old white Americans, but beyond that it accomplishes exactly nothing.

Quote:2. Let's go back in time a bit, at least how things worked where I live.  An example would be the hot/labor intensive job of hay hauling. Back in the day, us teenagers hauled hay. I know folks who did this. I'd say the problem isn't really racial, but job availability.  I dare say that fruit picking is a tad less labor intensive than that. If we go back to the 1930's , California got lots of Okies to pick stuff. So, if wages rose such that folks could get wages paid above the table, things would work out. So, it's greedy farmers who exploit illegal aliens on the cheap. As for food prices, yeah sure, they'd go up. However that means there'd be no displaced externalities. That means for example that the right folks would be paying for schools.

3. White people won't do (those) jobs... even if they're unemployed.  Yes, that's a problem. If wages rise due to the lack of cheap labor, then the exploiters will have to pay up, right? At least they should pay.  In fact, I'd slap some heavy fines on said exploiters. I'd fine their asses off.  Here's a job description of some local meat packers. Workers MUST put up with cold temperatures, carry heavy stuff, etc. Now, if the supply of labor falls, then they might get a clue. Either improve labor conditions or suffer a labor shortage.

I just don't think blaming immigrants is going to create a labor shortage to be filled by Americans. Trump's strategy could create a deep recession soon. It looks like he's going full bore with it. Very cruel and hurtful. A lot of those deportees are going to die. This is not the USA represented by the Statue of Liberty. People sent back to Honduras and Guatemala are being sent back to countries with no better situations than Chad or Libya. Shameful.

Trump promised new trade deals. The TV pundits uniformly assume that TPP was a good deal and that tariffs are trade wars. I don't understand this at all. Why must free trade be such a dogma among pundits? Tariffs were the norm through most of history. Some mild tariffs just might work to keep companies from moving to Mexico and selling the work of cheap labor back to us.

Trump is not doing well at making such a deal. Insulting and deporting people is not a good diplomatic tactic. A level-headed president who focused on trade deals instead of deportations might actually get a deal that would encourage companies to stay and hire more workers at higher wages. Talk about "reducing the trade deficit" without tariffs, as one pundit said tonight on Charlie Rose, is a mystery to me. I don't see what can be done without tariffs. Trump's other tactics of reducing regulations that the people need to keep them safe, and lowering taxes on the wealthy, are not likely to pump up the economy as Republicans and stock traders believe. Neo-liberalism is a failure, and the fact that people don't know this yet, after 40 years of it, is also a failure.

Quote:4. Yes, legal H1-B's did fuck stuff up.  That's why I'd like to put the ca-bosh on that.  H1-B's are a legal way to hire cheap labor to replace US labor. That is why I'd love to destroy it. Dunno... I have a vendetta on that.  Training's a joke. Here's the problem. If you're over 40, like I said before, any IT job is toast. As for great recessions, perhaps, but it's a price to pay to get multinats to pay up with higher wages. I have no problem holding a gun to Google/Amazon/Facefuck's/etc. heads. It goes like this, either hire US STEM folks or go bust. Here's what I really, really want to happen:  I want mass desperation in the IT field such that the multinats will bet and cry to get US workers retrained without a huge student loan debt.  Yeah, that's the ticket.  I admit I have a deep seated vendetta going.  Fuckerberg, Bezembezzle, Mayer, etc. need to cry out for mercy.   Yeah, I have a special place in hell for SAIC who H1-B'd me.  If I had my way, I'd ban that company from any future government contracts. Yes, I would, if I could, I'd pull any legal lever to destroy that company. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.  I want anyone who reads this to feel my rage. I want to rake SAIC over a bed of coals, I want all executives of said company to die. Rats and roaches are far, far more worthy of the biomass than those fuckers.

I assume you mean Science Applications International Corporation? I wish it were true that we as individuals had the power to assign people to hell according to our wishes. I hear your pain. Maybe there's another company that would hire you. You seem able to comprehend lots of abstract stuff that I can't. Rage is probably not the best living strategy though. You middle-aged guys in red states aren't doing too well with it. But I don't like H1-B. Lots of folks here in silicon valley are taking the jobs Americans could do, presumably-- including google and facefuck.

Quote:5. Education.  Well now.  I'm 54 and if I do the math, a student loan at my age is a disaster.  Here's how it works. The worth of an education falls as one ages. I have only something like 12 years before Social Security with full benefits. [Unless the Republicans fuck this up. ] I'd also add that the canard of "retraining" is a joke. I fail to see where retraining gets anyone anywhere.  Germany has a better model, but we're talking Neoliberalism in the US.  The usual process here in the US is either fake retraining or some sort of dead end.  I know this is fucked up which is why I don't bother. I'd rather just coast along with a rinky dink minimum wage job that at least has a positive income stream than some sort of fake dream land.  I really don't think retraining in say cyber-security would work in the US.  I know I'm smart enough and have a basic background, but the debt to get there is prohibitive . That's even knowing  that's a hot field.  You're right, PTB apparently wants stupid even though at times it's them who suffer.  Penny wise, pound foolish.

6. Yeah, I'm venting... I have far more hatred towards mulinats if that accounts for anything.

Multinats are generally at-least borderline criminal organizations in my book. Neo-liberalism is their enabler. Republicans and Libertarians are true believers; Democrats are not, but DINOs are. Trump's guys are already aiming to repeal social security; they might succeed. Remember George Carlin predicted this. Watch that video please if you haven't already. It is soothing to the soul to hear someone rant as loudly as you and I do.

This is getting long and I can't snip stuff without losing context.  Anyhow, I'll try to pretend to run for Congress or somesuch.


Illegal Aliens.  They directly take jobs which should be done by US citizens. 
I'll let Ian Welch's blog entry explain this. I agree with this fully: http://www.ianwelsh.net/immigration-and-wages/.
Here's the real unemployment rate, : http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_dat...ent-charts
Participation rate:  https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000
The Statue of Liberty is not the whole story. The rule of law is just as important. Uncontrolled immigration is a disaster, like what's going on in Sweden.  http://nypost.com/2017/02/21/actually-sw...-refugees/

Don't try this at home.  I'd much rather learn from other nation-state's fuckups than do the same thing here.

So I've cross referenced the unemployment rate with the participation rate to ensure things line up. The conclusion I have is the labor force supply is too high. That means the US needs policies to reduce that supply. Deportation may be cruel, but so is chronic joblessness for US citizens. I'm siding with US citizens is all.
I like fines.  There's this thing called the E-verify program. Would be employers need to use that and check every new hire.  Everify should be mandatory, it's not now which is stupid.
White/black/brown/yellow/red/etc. citizens will do those jobs. Employment's already a requirement for able bodied folks under the age of 50 in order to qualify for SNAP etc.

Tariffs:  Well, like I've mentioned prior, I'd to a WTO allowed VAT tax and use that tax to finance Medicare for all. The Medicare payroll tax would be abolished. Taxing employment is silly.

Neoliberalism/Republican Parrots going on and on about "lower taxes, lower taxes, brwwwkkk.", "fewer regulations, fewer regulations brrrrwkkk", neoliberal stuff is getting really old after 40 years.

*parrot award for GOP



Yes, you got it. SAIC = Science Applications International Corporation.  It's next to impossible to get a new job in tech if you're over 40 and especially if there's a gaping hole in one's resume. I'm so, so screwed.  As for others, yeah, anti-labor shananagins were afoot.
https://prezi.com/x4hpdamrwgjy/silicon-v...sequences/

Regulations.  Libertarians should understand that anyone's right to pollute stops at my body's edge. Pollution is the ultimate violation of property rights. I'm sure that prior statement would be a huge headache for the GOP/Libertarian party.

You statements wrt Mulinats are spot on. No need to elaborate.

Again,  Sweden is a warning.  No Muslims.   They're an existential threat.


#NoSharia
#Noscums
#SendEmBack
#Merkeldumbfuck







So, if some Muzzie kills somebody,  baste 'em in pork grease and broadcast it world wide!


Pork, the other white meat.

(02-24-2017, 07:40 AM)Odin Wrote: [ -> ]Because the Gilded Age was so great. Bring back child labor! Bring back polluted air and water! Bring back contaminated food! /sarcasm

Just admit it, Galen, you want the corporations to rule over us like feudal lords. "Liberty" for the Oligarchy, misery and oppression for everyone else.

Yeah, Sharia's worse though.  Damn them to hell, helveta, baste them well, baste them well, bacon grease rulz.





The more I see of this shit, the more I just wish Muslims would burn in hell, catch tuberculosis, and die.  I hate 'em hate 'em.  At least Latinos are civilized.  No goat fuckers for the USA.

(02-24-2017, 07:34 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: [ -> ]This is getting long and I can't snip stuff without losing context.  Anyhow, I'll try to pretend to run for Congress or somesuch.

Too long, so, snip snip. Like you'd like to do to Muslims

Quote:Illegal Aliens.  They directly take jobs which should be done by US citizens.

No they don't, as already explained. They take jobs which are NOT done by US citizens.

Quote: 
I'll let Ian Welch's blog entry explain this. I agree with this fully: http://www.ianwelsh.net/immigration-and-wages/.
Here's the real unemployment rate, : http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_dat...ent-charts
Participation rate:  https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

Participation rate has some meaning, but not as much as they say, because of more retirements among boomers now.

Quote:The Statue of Liberty is not the whole story. The rule of law is just as important. Uncontrolled immigration is a disaster, like what's going on in Sweden.  http://nypost.com/2017/02/21/actually-sw...-refugees/

As I said, I don't subscribe to the mistaken views of reactionaries. I use real news sources. Trump made up a terrorist attack that did not exist.

Rule of law is a good thing, but "perspective" as I said. Misdemeanor violations do not justify cruel punishment. Those who pay the fine and work deserve to move to the USA. Immigration is not too much now, and Obama has been successfully deporting smuggled aliens. Trump's actions are unnecessary and wrong; all of them. He does not and will not do anything right. He's a dumbfuck greedy bastard.

Quote:Don't try this at home.  I'd much rather learn from other nation-state's fuckups than do the same thing here.

So I've cross referenced the unemployment rate with the participation rate to ensure things line up. The conclusion I have is the labor force supply is too high. That means the US needs policies to reduce that supply. Deportation may be cruel, but so is chronic joblessness for US citizens. I'm siding with US citizens is all.
I like fines.  There's this thing called the E-verify program. Would be employers need to use that and check every new hire.  Everify should be mandatory, it's not now which is stupid.
White/black/brown/yellow/red/etc. citizens will do those jobs. Employment's already a requirement for able bodied folks under the age of 50 in order to qualify for SNAP etc.

Since illegal immigrants do not take jobs Americans do, it does not contribute to joblessness. Some legal immigration might so contribute. The USA would have to restrain the CEOs who hire the H1s. Republicans aren't likely to do that. Others tout the benefit of immigrants who start more businesses here than residents do. So, restraint of legal immigration doesn't seem likely. Granted that such legal immigration of better-educated and younger workers and entrepreneurs takes jobs from Americans, such as yourself. That's bad. It sucks. But on the other hand, they create more jobs too by starting big companies like google. So that's good. You might not get the same kind of job you had, but you could come out here to Silicon Valley and see what you could find. You are smart and inventive; you could even start something yourself.

The fact is that our labor surplus is now permanent. There's nothing that can be done about it anymore. Computer automation is making work obsolete. Only guaranteed income is the answer. The CEOs and financiers should not be entitled to all the wealth created by computers, because they didn't create it all. The Republican neo-liberal ideology is doomed by technology. Cheap labor abroad is the other big problem, though that is not permanent, since cheap labor countries could well catch up with the first world in coming decades, and automate too. But it's a big problem now, and has been in the 40+ years that the Rust Belt has declined. That, along with decline of unions and wage hogging by the bosses, created the economic problems for the middle and lower classes we see today. Not immigration.

Quote:Tariffs:  Well, like I've mentioned prior, I'd do a WTO allowed VAT tax and use that tax to finance Medicare for all. The Medicare payroll tax would be abolished. Taxing employment is silly.

That does not disprove tariffs as a possible revenue source and trade equalizing agent to reduce companies moving abroad for cheap labor and fewer regulations. I think your VAT idea is OK in principle, but I disagree; I think payroll medicare taxes work just fine and are very low; it couldn't take much more of a raise in those taxes to extend Medicare to all, since younger people are healthier anyway, and prevention and holistic coverage would lead to better health in old age too. VAT taxes OTOH are not progressive, but hurt the poor and middle class. Payroll taxes create benefits that you earn with your work. On balance, it seems right to me.

Quote:Neoliberalism/Republican Parrots going on and on about "lower taxes, lower taxes, brwwwkkk.", "fewer regulations, fewer regulations brrrrwkkk", neoliberal stuff is getting really old after 40 years.

*parrot award for GOP

Well deserved, and as I said, about to be made obsolete by tech.

Quote:Regulations.  Libertarians should understand that anyone's right to pollute stops at my body's edge. Pollution is the ultimate violation of property rights. I'm sure that prior statement would be a huge headache for the GOP/Libertarian party.

Yes, especially since pollution (like injustice) anywhere, is pollution everywhere.

Steve Bannon has been a topic of conversation on a daily basis in the media, mostly because of his disturbing past and current actions. The Washington Post published a piece on Bannon, as did The Boston Globe, which brought some things to light that certainly doesn’t look good for Trump’s chief strategist.

Here are some things we learned from these two articles:
1) Some close to Bannon say he isn’t really racist, he’s just exploiting business opportunities. Ben Shapiro, the editor-in-chief of Dailywire.com, also previously worked as an editor at Breitbart. He believes Bannon has exploited the far right for political purposes, according to the NYT article.
Bannon’s classmates from Harvard told the Globe that they think their former colleague has been exploiting a business opportunity, profiting off the neglected demographic of poor, white-working class Americans. One of them told the Globe: “There’s a strong argument to be made that he was doing whatever any good business leader would do, which is serving his customers and providing a product.”

2) He draws inspiration from a Nazi propagandist. Bannon has said that he gets inspiration from Nazi propagandist and filmmaker Leni Riefenstahl. She directed “Triumph of the Will,” a propaganda film commissioned by Adolf Hitler in 1933 that portrays Germany as a country returning to world power.Bannon and Breitbart News have been denounced by civil rights groups for promoting racist views. The SPLC has called Breitbart a “white ethno-nationalist propaganda mill.”

3) He has troubling views on voting rights. One film colleague of Bannon’s told the Times that he had once said that voting rights should be limited to those who own property like in the early decades of US history.

“I said, ‘That would exclude a lot of African-Americans,’” Ms. Jones recalled. “He said, ‘Maybe that’s not such a bad thing.’ I said, ‘But what about Wendy?’” referring to Mr. Bannon’s executive assistant. “He said, ‘She’s different. She’s family.’

This man appears to be a greedy, exploitative, hate-mongering racist and he’s going to be calling a lot of the shots in the presidential administration. If that’s not scary to you, then you’re probably a Trump voter.

http://www.bluedotdaily.com/steve-bannon...bad-thing/

Take us to your leader!





The media is the enemy of the people, Trump said. I wonder if he appreciated the fact that the media didn't broadcast this speech.

The more that I hear Donald Trump, the more I respect Ronald Reagan. He may have been behind the curve on gay rights and he might have been crude in describing the Soviet Union as the Evil Empire... but at least he was coherent, coachable, and responsible. (OK, Obama has proved more progressive, which makes a big difference).



See what I mean?

(02-15-2017, 12:17 PM)Bad Dog Wrote: [ -> ]Unthinkable. The National Security Adviser, working for the Russians.

And, the reactionaries are defending it.

Does the word "treason" have any meaning for you, my noble debate opponents? You have certainly thrown insults my way, over time.

Maybe Reagan *did* do a deal with the Iranians over *his* election....

1. I have never, ever thrown insults your way.   I'm happy and I'll a memory I'm guessing may apply.






Some wine to cheer you up?






* I saw this post by just looking at stuff random like, like.  random, that it, I want random because it's good. Trump said random is good, so it must be good.

Irangate.

Wikipedia has this stuff.

"After Iraq invaded Iran in September 1980, Iran had a desperate need for weapons and spare parts to maintain its current weapons. After Ronald Reagan took office as President on 20 January 1981, he vowed to continue Carter's policy of blocking arms sales to Iran under the grounds that Iran was a supporter of terrorism.[15] A group of senior Reagan administration officials in the Senior Interdepartmental Group conducted a secret study on 21 July 1981."

1. After Ronald Reagan took office as POTUS, he vowed to continue Carter's policy of blocking arms sales to Iran under the grounds that Iran was a supporter of terrorism"

2.A group of senior Reagan administration officials in the Senior Interdepartmental Group conducted a secret study on 21 July 1981, which

concluded that the arms embargo was ineffective as Iran could always buy arms and spare parts for its American weapons elsewhere

3. the arms embargo opened the door for Iran to fall into the Soviet sphere of influence as the Kremlin could sell Iran weapons if the United States would not.[15] The conclusion was that the United States should start selling Iran arms as soon as it was politically possible to keep Iran from falling


4. At the same time, the openly declared goal of Ayatollah Khomeini to export his Islamic revolution all over the Middle East and overthrow the governments of Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the other Persian Gulf states led to the Americans perceiving Khomeini as a major threat to the United States.

5. At least part of the reason why the Iran–Contra affair proved so humiliating for the United States when the story first broke in November 1986 that the US was selling arms to Iran was that American diplomats as part of Operation Staunch had from the spring of 1983 on had been lecturing other nations about how morally wrong it was to sell arms to the Islamic Republic of Iran and applying strong pressure to prevent any arms sales to Iran

6. The Reagan administration argued that because the constitution assigned the right to conduct foreign policy to the executive arm that its efforts to overthrow the government of Nicaragua were a presidential prerogative that Congress had no right to try to halt via the Boland amendments

7. Contra militants based in Honduras waged a guerrilla war to topple the Sandinista National Liberation Front (FSLN) revolutionary government of Nicaragua. Almost from the time he took office in 1981, a major goal of the Reagan administration was the overthrow of the left-wing Sandinista government in Nicaragua by backing the Contra rebels.

Yes,  obviously some somebody's should have fallen on their sword so to speak here. Nextly,  and let's get this right out in front, yes out in front.  The US by proxy attempted to do regime change in Nicaragua.  The US did pretty much the selfsame in Chile with the Pinochet.  So right here we have 2 regime change operations done by US to nations which were no threat whatsoever to the US.  So , when Russia does this, the US should never bitch but become contrite over stooping to tactics the Russians/Soviets do/did.  So that means the US can do proxy stuff in Ukraine, unless the US did a regime change before Russia did.

Back on Iran/Contra? It looks like what happen then as what happens now wrt scandals.  Look, bad dog, let's discuss snakes.  Yes , snakes.  Snakes do indeed hang together, well, rattlesnakes. Yes, in Oklahoma rattle snakes hibernate together in burrows or caves. Here's what rattle snakes, which is now "snakes" all human snakes hang together just like snakes. That's why when you have a snake pit running the Federal Government, it becomes the Feral Government and all sorts of slinky happenings like Iran Contra, Russiagate happen. So,  it's gonna be South Park like,  nothing to see here, move along. Just think what happens to outsiders when they stumble into snake pits.  It's a bad, bad, scene.