Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory

(10-01-2017, 07:30 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-30-2017, 12:22 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-30-2017, 12:11 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]...and while President Nero fiddles his self-praise, people die in Puerto Rico because they aren't getting such necessities as fresh water, medical treatment, food, cooling (as for insulin)...

A small but pertinent part of it is that the mayor is female.  You just know he isn't going to respond well.

Bob, if you are going to speak against stereotypes, you shouldn't be directly associated with them.

A lot of people are doing negative press, including that.  Allegedly (and in the coverage) Trump rants against the ladies,  I think it is overdone.  If any faction finds something to rail about, they will rail.  They had decades to work against Hillary.  For the time being it is part of the literary landscape.  At a guess, Trump isn't as bad as presented, as sold. but if there weren't truth in it, it would not be such a frequent and well sourced series.

(With CNN representing the left, and Breitbart the base right, is seems Trump is getting it from both sides.  You are going to have to get used to it.)


When I'm feeling mean, I can present Trump as a high ego narcissist with a thing towards women, a love for attention, an allergy for criticism, and lacking the people skills to hold a group together.  I doubt I'm surprising anyone with any of that.  I don't try to apply it to a large group, such as all Republicans, all welfare recipients, or all people of a given skin pigmentation.  I base it on readily available multiple sourced reporting.

Now, a partisan will often see their guy as perfect and label any criticism as fake news, stereotype, negative campaigning or whatever.  To be expected.  Sometimes true.  You may even believe it full time true.  Sill, you ought to see where the stories originated and see if the pattern is real.

To me, this pattern is real.  To a partisan, probably not.

(10-01-2017, 08:11 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-01-2017, 07:30 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-30-2017, 12:22 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-30-2017, 12:11 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]...and while President Nero fiddles his self-praise, people die in Puerto Rico because they aren't getting such necessities as fresh water, medical treatment, food, cooling (as for insulin)...

A small but pertinent part of it is that the mayor is female.  You just know he isn't going to respond well.

Bob, if you are going to speak against stereotypes, you shouldn't be directly associated with them.

A lot of people are doing negative press, including that.  Allegedly (and in the coverage) Trump rants against the ladies,  I think it is overdone.  If any faction finds something to rail about, they will rail.  They had decades to work against Hillary.  For the time being it is part of the literary landscape.  At a guess, Trump isn't as bad as presented, as sold. but if there weren't truth in it, it would not be such a frequent and well sourced series.

(With CNN representing the left, and Breitbart the base right, is seems Trump is getting it from both sides.  You are going to have to get used to it.)


When I'm feeling mean, I can present Trump as a high ego narcissist with a thing towards women, a love for attention, an allergy for criticism, and lacking the people skills to hold a group together.  I doubt I'm surprising anyone with any of that.  I don't try to apply it to a large group, such as all Republicans, all welfare recipients, or all people of a given skin pigmentation.  I base it on readily available multiple sourced reporting.

Now, a partisan will often see their guy as perfect and label any criticism as fake news, stereotype, negative campaigning or whatever.  To be expected.  Sometimes true.  You may even believe it full time true.  Sill, you ought to see where the stories originated and see if the pattern is real.

To me, this pattern is real.  To a partisan, probably not.

Trump is an asshole. Trump can be thin skinned and arrogant at times. Trump picks stupid fights with pussy football team owners and over paid football players who make as much money sitting on the bench as they do playing on the field for a few plays during a game or kneeling or sitting down during the American Anthem and dissing the American flag and the proud people who represent it on the field, in the stands and in their homes watching on their TV's and so forth. I thought the way the league responded by huddling up and circling the wagons was fucking hilarious/ ridiculous myself and deserving of a boycott/protest that would make your football team owner and every other football team owner fucking gulp. Now, I don't think it would be a good idea for football owners to allow football games to become politicized like every thing else. The league is already losing credibility/loyalty among the die hard football fans. I'm not a die hard football fan. I'm a fantasy football player. I'm not very impressed with the offensive talent this year and the over all talent (lack of talent) that I'm seeing in the league this year. If the NFL dies, I won't cry and stumble around not knowing what to do with my life. I've got other things to do with my time.

(10-01-2017, 09:37 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-01-2017, 08:11 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]When I'm feeling mean, I can present Trump as a high ego narcissist with a thing towards women, a love for attention, an allergy for criticism, and lacking the people skills to hold a group together. 

Trump is an asshole.

See. You are a perfectly good writer.

Problem. We seem to agree on something.

I do try to be a bit more specific.

There is a difference between stereotyping and criticizing an individual. If I were to write a generalization about 'the swamp', I'd want it to fit most of them and be a bit nervous that any generalization will miss a few. If I write something about Trump, well, there is lots of source material and any politician is fair game by some standards.

(10-01-2017, 10:51 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-01-2017, 09:37 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-01-2017, 08:11 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]When I'm feeling mean, I can present Trump as a high ego narcissist with a thing towards women, a love for attention, an allergy for criticism, and lacking the people skills to hold a group together. 

Trump is an asshole.

See.  You are a perfectly good writer.

Problem.  We seem to agree on something.  

I do try to be a bit more specific.

There is a difference between stereotyping and criticizing an individual.  If I were to write a generalization about 'the swamp', I'd want it to fit most of them and be a bit nervous that any generalization will miss a few.  If I write something about Trump, well, there is lots of source material and any politician is fair game by some standards.

I know the difference between criticism and stereotyping. You were doing both. If you are going to come at me about stereotyping then I'd suggest that you not do it yourself. Hint...Everyone knows Trump is an asshole, everyone knows Trump is used to being a billionaire who can say whatever he wants, who flies off the cuff, says crazy/provocative shit and starts petty fights to get attention or whatever.

(10-01-2017, 07:30 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-30-2017, 12:22 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-30-2017, 12:11 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]...and while President Nero fiddles his self-praise, people die in Puerto Rico because they aren't getting such necessities as fresh water, medical treatment, food, cooling (as for insulin)...

A small but pertinent part of it is that the mayor is female.  You just know he isn't going to respond well.

Bob, if you are going to speak against stereotypes, you shouldn't be directly associated with them.

Yes, she is female.  I consider that a fact rather than a stereotype. Now, if you added stuff on how females supposedly think, vote and behave, it could rapidly become a stereotype or vile stereotype.

Yes, he, meaning Trump, did not respond well.  It is not a broad painting of a larger group of people.  It is a well documented tendency of a particular (expletive deleted).

I suspect that I was somewhere inconsistent.  I'm not pretending to be holier than thou.  Your accusation above is not a good illustration.

(10-02-2017, 09:41 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, she is female.  I consider that a fact rather than a stereotype.

Yes, he, meaning Trump, did not respond well.  It is not a broad painting of a larger group of people.  It is a well documented tendency of a particular (expletive deleted).

I suspect that I was somewhere inconsistent.  I'm not pretending to be holier than thou.  Your accusation above is not a good illustration.

Actually, you've been consistent and you were being consistent with the blue's view of the males on the other side. We are all anti-women, we look down on women, we don't believe in women, we don't respect women, we don't care about women and so forth. We are also racists, homophobes, fascists and so on according to the stereotype. Yes, she is a female. What kind of female is she? Is she competent? Is she power hungry and politically ruthless like Clinton? Is she greedy? Is she honest and wholesome or an evil cunt? You must know her better than me.

I've met/seen a lot of women during my life. You don't know what type of woman she is until you see them in action, she their personalities, see their weakness's and their flaws. We know that blue women are the best. We are often told/ propagandized by the blues that their women are the best. Blue women are the most educated, the most knowledgeable, the most competent, the most respectful, the most kind and generous women on earth. Red women are fools who don't know their interests, women who don't know their place, women who don't know what their interests are or what their interests should be, women who don't know how they should be politically aligned and so forth.

(10-02-2017, 11:36 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 09:41 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, she is female.  I consider that a fact rather than a stereotype.

Yes, he, meaning Trump, did not respond well.  It is not a broad painting of a larger group of people.  It is a well documented tendency of a particular (expletive deleted).

I suspect that I was somewhere inconsistent.  I'm not pretending to be holier than thou.  Your accusation above is not a good illustration.

Actually, you've been consistent and you were being consistent with the blue's view of the males on the other side. We are all anti-women, we look down on women, we don't believe in women, we don't respect women, we don't care about women and so forth. We are also racists, homophobes, fascists and so on according to the stereotype. Yes, she is a female. What kind of female is she? Is she competent? Is she power hungry and politically ruthless like Clinton? Is she greedy? Is she honest and wholesome or an evil  cunt? You must know her better than me.

I've met/seen a lot of women during my life. You don't know what type of woman she is until you see them in action, she their personalities, see their weakness's and their flaws. We know that blue women are the best. We are often told/ propagandized by the blues that their women are the best. Blue women are the most educated, the most knowledgeable, the most competent, the most respectful, the most kind and generous women on earth. Red women are fools who don't know their interests, women who don't know their place, women who don't know what their interests are or what their interests should be, women who don't know how they should be politically aligned and so forth.

You may see, like President Trump, Mayor Carmen Yulin Cruz as a shrill Cassandra. But she is in far better position (word of mouth) to know what reality is in Puerto Rico, especially in its hurricane-ravaged back country, than he does. Word of mouth, which is good enough to make a failure out of an expensively-produced and lavishly-marketed cinematic bomb, can spread a meme quickly. This time the memes that no longer have landline or even cellular phones to get out the message, are word-of-mouth. Donald Trump has only his optimism about a bad situation.

If "Red" women were to get more education (and their daughters might), then they would less likely be "Red". The personal qualities that make a registered nurse a registered nurse instead of a waitress-short-order cook- cashier at a chain restaurant off Exit 33 are more likely to make the registered nurse a Democrat. "Red" women are more likely to submit to husbands who expect such submission.

I can already predict that Mayor Cruz will be present at the Democratic National Convention in 2020. She will give Hell to President Trump and his enablers. Well-deserved hell, that is.

(10-02-2017, 12:16 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 11:36 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 09:41 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, she is female.  I consider that a fact rather than a stereotype.

Yes, he, meaning Trump, did not respond well.  It is not a broad painting of a larger group of people.  It is a well documented tendency of a particular (expletive deleted).

I suspect that I was somewhere inconsistent.  I'm not pretending to be holier than thou.  Your accusation above is not a good illustration.

Actually, you've been consistent and you were being consistent with the blue's view of the males on the other side. We are all anti-women, we look down on women, we don't believe in women, we don't respect women, we don't care about women and so forth. We are also racists, homophobes, fascists and so on according to the stereotype. Yes, she is a female. What kind of female is she? Is she competent? Is she power hungry and politically ruthless like Clinton? Is she greedy? Is she honest and wholesome or an evil  cunt? You must know her better than me.

I've met/seen a lot of women during my life. You don't know what type of woman she is until you see them in action, she their personalities, see their weakness's and their flaws. We know that blue women are the best. We are often told/ propagandized by the blues that their women are the best. Blue women are the most educated, the most knowledgeable, the most competent, the most respectful, the most kind and generous women on earth. Red women are fools who don't know their interests, women who don't know their place, women who don't know what their interests are or what their interests should be, women who don't know how they should be politically aligned and so forth.

You may see, like President Trump, Mayor Carmen Yulin Cruz as a shrill Cassandra. But she is in far better position (word of mouth) to know what reality is in Puerto Rico, especially in its hurricane-ravaged back country, than he does. Word of mouth, which is good enough to make a failure out of an expensively-produced and lavishly-marketed cinematic bomb, can spread a meme quickly. This time the memes that no longer have landline or even cellular phones to get out the message, are word-of-mouth. Donald Trump has only his optimism about a bad situation.

If "Red" women were to get more education (and their daughters might), then they would less likely be "Red". The personal qualities that make a registered nurse a registered nurse instead of a waitress-short-order cook- cashier at a chain restaurant off Exit 33 are more likely to make the registered nurse a Democrat. "Red" women are more likely to submit to husbands who expect such submission.

I can already predict that Mayor Cruz will be present at the Democratic National Convention in 2020. She will give Hell to President Trump and his enablers. Well-deserved hell, that is.

Gee, my Republican voting mother was a registered nurse.

(10-02-2017, 12:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 12:16 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]You may see, like President Trump, Mayor Carmen Yulin Cruz as a shrill Cassandra. But she is in far better position (word of mouth) to know what reality is in Puerto Rico, especially in its hurricane-ravaged back country, than he does. Word of mouth, which is good enough to make a failure out of an expensively-produced and lavishly-marketed cinematic bomb, can spread a meme quickly. This time the memes that no longer have landline or even cellular phones to get out the message, are word-of-mouth. Donald Trump has only his optimism about a bad situation.

If "Red" women were to get more education (and their daughters might), then they would less likely be "Red". The personal qualities that make a registered nurse a registered nurse instead of a waitress-short-order cook- cashier at a chain restaurant off Exit 33 are more likely to make the registered nurse a Democrat. "Red" women are more likely to submit to husbands who expect such submission.

I can already predict that Mayor Cruz will be present at the Democratic National Convention in 2020. She will give Hell to President Trump and his enablers. Well-deserved hell, that is.

Gee, my Republican voting mother was a registered nurse.

As late as 1964, people with college degrees voted in a majority for Barry Goldwater despite his blowout loss to the Democrat. Most RN's now have bachelor's degrees. I am tempted to believe that the majority of them now vote Democratic. People with bachelor's degrees or higher now vote majority-Democratic.

But surely you have seen my Obama-Eisenhower overlay map. Eisenhower won the best-educated states in the 1950s. Getting a bachelor's degree requires some qualities of personal temperament, and those qualities favor someone like Eisenhower or Obama.

(10-02-2017, 12:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 12:16 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 11:36 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 09:41 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, she is female.  I consider that a fact rather than a stereotype.

Yes, he, meaning Trump, did not respond well.  It is not a broad painting of a larger group of people.  It is a well documented tendency of a particular (expletive deleted).

I suspect that I was somewhere inconsistent.  I'm not pretending to be holier than thou.  Your accusation above is not a good illustration.

Actually, you've been consistent and you were being consistent with the blue's view of the males on the other side. We are all anti-women, we look down on women, we don't believe in women, we don't respect women, we don't care about women and so forth. We are also racists, homophobes, fascists and so on according to the stereotype. Yes, she is a female. What kind of female is she? Is she competent? Is she power hungry and politically ruthless like Clinton? Is she greedy? Is she honest and wholesome or an evil  cunt? You must know her better than me.

I've met/seen a lot of women during my life. You don't know what type of woman she is until you see them in action, she their personalities, see their weakness's and their flaws. We know that blue women are the best. We are often told/ propagandized by the blues that their women are the best. Blue women are the most educated, the most knowledgeable, the most competent, the most respectful, the most kind and generous women on earth. Red women are fools who don't know their interests, women who don't know their place, women who don't know what their interests are or what their interests should be, women who don't know how they should be politically aligned and so forth.

You may see, like President Trump, Mayor Carmen Yulin Cruz as a shrill Cassandra. But she is in far better position (word of mouth) to know what reality is in Puerto Rico, especially in its hurricane-ravaged back country, than he does. Word of mouth, which is good enough to make a failure out of an expensively-produced and lavishly-marketed cinematic bomb, can spread a meme quickly. This time the memes that no longer have landline or even cellular phones to get out the message, are word-of-mouth. Donald Trump has only his optimism about a bad situation.

If "Red" women were to get more education (and their daughters might), then they would less likely be "Red". The personal qualities that make a registered nurse a registered nurse instead of a waitress-short-order cook- cashier at a chain restaurant off Exit 33 are more likely to make the registered nurse a Democrat. "Red" women are more likely to submit to husbands who expect such submission.

I can already predict that Mayor Cruz will be present at the Democratic National Convention in 2020. She will give Hell to President Trump and his enablers. Well-deserved hell, that is.

Gee, my Republican voting mother was a registered nurse.

Congratulations to her, but that doesn't mean she is typical.

To some extent, some of the stereotypes Classic Xer mentions are correct, and I agree with them. To some extent, I don't. Are "red" males anti-women? They may respect women well. But they vote for policies which WE on the other side believe are hurtful to women, such as trickle-down economics that keeps their wages down, and Republican votes in congress against policies that assure equal pay or protect them from abuse. Not to mention the disagreement over abortion. So it's largely not a hatred of women on the red side, but a disagreement over policies that blues believe are helpful to women or not. In the case of some Republicans like Trump, though, it's also behavior and prejudicial statements that they make. But some Democrats could also be faulted for such behavior.

There appears to be a split between the Trump base and the establishment/business wing in the GOP regarding racism, homophobia, fascism, etc. The Trump base seems to favor those vile opinions to some extent, while the other wing just supports policies like trickle-down economics and self-reliance memes that blues believe do not serve the interests of non-white groups, or anyone else for that matter except the richest class of folks.

Females are different individually, and political views and behaviors are not the sole determinants of assessments of women or anyone else. A person may be of high moral character and behavior by any standard, and still vote for policies which we blues believe are harmful to everyone's interests. 

As for Hillary Clinton, she had her flaws, but it was mostly a dislike of being forward and honest about her actions. Nothing was ever proven regarding any charges of ruthlessness or corruption. On the contrary, those who knew her respected and admired her for her competence and compassion. But the model constructed of her by the GOP has proven very useful to them as a campaign tactic.

Women who vote Democratic, are better in their voting behavior, I believe. Stats prove they are better educated, and indeed from our viewpoint they support government policies that help people. Does that mean they are "the best?" Only in those kinds of respects. As for red women, the same holds true. Any "red" voting woman might have many great qualities, such as your Mom. But what you mentioned "Red women are fools who don't know their interests, women who don't know their place, women who don't know what their interests are or what their interests should be, women who don't know how they should be politically aligned and so forth" are political characteristics, so these are true stereotypes from the point of view of many blue voters. If they vote Republican, they are aligned with those views regarding women's place and interests. From our point of view, almost ANYONE of ANY gender who votes Republican these days is voting against their own interests and place in the world.

(10-02-2017, 11:36 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 09:41 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, she is female.  I consider that a fact rather than a stereotype.

Yes, he, meaning Trump, did not respond well.  It is not a broad painting of a larger group of people.  It is a well documented tendency of a particular (expletive deleted).

I suspect that I was somewhere inconsistent.  I'm not pretending to be holier than thou.  Your accusation above is not a good illustration.

Actually, you've been consistent and you were being consistent with the blue's view of the males on the other side. We are all anti-women, we look down on women, we don't believe in women, we don't respect women, we don't care about women and so forth. We are also racists, homophobes, fascists and so on according to the stereotype. Yes, she is a female. What kind of female is she? Is she competent? Is she power hungry and politically ruthless like Clinton? Is she greedy? Is she honest and wholesome or an evil  cunt? You must know her better than me.

I've met/seen a lot of women during my life. You don't know what type of woman she is until you see them in action, she their personalities, see their weakness's and their flaws. We know that blue women are the best. We are often told/ propagandized by the blues that their women are the best. Blue women are the most educated, the most knowledgeable, the most competent, the most respectful, the most kind and generous women on earth. Red women are fools who don't know their interests, women who don't know their place, women who don't know what their interests are or what their interests should be, women who don't know how they should be politically aligned and so forth.

By the time you add in the stereotypical thinking, you're got a stereotype.  To say she is a female isn't stereotype.  It is a fact.  If you presume that all women are this and that, you could get a stereotype really easy.

Now, my job was software engineer.  There was no real reason for the ladies not to join.  They did.  I certainly had no complaints.  At the time, I did much of my reading into hunter gatherers.  I wouldn't be surprised if males did more of the hunting and border defending, while females did more of the gathering and nurturing.  There are differences.  There are reasons for the differences.  The genders had different roles in the society we both evolved for.  None of the differences really got in the way while developing software.  Then again, the same seemed true of culture and skin pigmentation.  Some make a big deal of it.  As you suggest, education level may be part of it.  Then again, could both genders become happier trying to replicate the environment their predecessors evolved for?  Is that even possible?  It doesn't seem on the table.  I'll keep it in mind, but I prefer to let each choose their own path.

The error seems to be one of projection.  Because you think in terms of stereotypes, you are assuming that everyone does.  I was and remain no saint, but that wasn't one of my problems.  Just noticing someone is female doesn't imply I'm judging and partitioning.

Have I heard any of the stereotypes?  If course.  If a lady thinks motherhood is her path to happiness, I'll have fun at the wedding.  If she wants to try writing code, give her a terminal.  Regardless of gender, let everyone choose their own path, and if you can help them along you do so.  I don't select people's paths for them and try to force it.  I likely made a few mistakes.  I don't encourage anyone repeating them.

I did recently read the Wiki article on Carmen Cruz, the mayor in question.  She is a fairly attractive woman.  She seems quite qualified.  I don't feel any of the stereotypes are helpful, so I ignore them.  She has made herself important enough that I at least would see her treated as herself rather than as a stereotype.

Truth-telling, I have found, is the key to responsible citizenship. The thousands of criminals I have seen in 40 years of law enforcement have had one thing in common: Every single one was a liar.

-- J. Edgar Hoover

From  the BBC:

A top member of Donald Trump's administration has business links with Russian allies of President Vladimir Putin who are under US sanctions, the Paradise Papers have revealed.

Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross has an interest in Navigator Holdings, which earns millions a year transporting oil and gas for Russian energy firm Sibur.

Two major Sibur shareholders are under some form of US sanctions.

A commerce department spokesman did not dispute the revelations.

"Secretary Ross recuses himself from any matters focused on transoceanic shipping vessels," the spokesman told BBC Panorama, adding that the secretary "works closely with Commerce Department ethics officials to ensure the highest ethical standards".

Another Sibur shareholder is President Putin's son in law, Kirill Shamalov.

He holds a 3.9% stake in the firm. Gennady Timchenko, who has been individually sanctioned by the United States, as have at least 12 companies connected to him, and Leonid Mikhelson, whose main company, Novatek, is also sanctioned, are major shareholders.

Sibur itself and Mr Shamalov are not under sanctions, although Mr Shamalov's father, Nikolai, is.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41876939

Great leaders can, and often must, call  for great personal sacrifices on behalf of their nation, their culture, or Humanity as a whole. It's not for the leader; it is for some great good that long survives the sacrifices. So it was for Lincoln, Juarez, Churchill, Mannerheim, FDR, and Gandhi.  

Aside from being male and in a position of great power I can hardly see what Donald Trump has in common with Lincoln, Juarez, Churchill, Mannerheim, FDR, or Gandhi. 

Here's what Donald Trump expects: dirty work for his narcissistic dream.
[/url]
[url=http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-adviser-claims-lied-fbi-loyalty-trump-source/story?id=51059088]

Quote:George Papadopoulos, the Trump foreign policy aide who pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI, initially misled agents out of what he claimed was loyalty to President Donald Trump, according to a person with direct knowledge of the investigation.
Trump had publicly denied that there had been any contact between his campaign and Russian officials, and Papadopoulos did not want to contradict the official line, the source said.

“It’s all fake news,” Trump said of any alleged connections in January. “It’s phony stuff. It didn’t happen.”

Papadopoulos met with the FBI agents investigating those alleged ties shortly thereafter, and he later acknowledged that he lied during that meeting about the timing of certain contacts.

According to federal court filings, Papadopoulos initially claimed his contacts with a professor who had deep ties in Russia “occurred before” he became an adviser to the campaign.

“In truth and in fact,” the filings read, “the professor only took interest in defendant Papadopoulos because of his status with the Campaign.”

There are also lingering questions about the role Papadopoulos played in the campaign.

After the plea agreement was made public last month, Trump sought to distance himself from Papadopoulos, tweeting that “few people knew the young, low level volunteer named George, who has already proven to be a liar.”

But the “low level volunteer” made several trips overseas throughout 2016, purportedly on behalf of the campaign, making appearances where he was introduced as a Trump adviser.

In April, he traveled to Israel to speak at the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies, an appearance arranged by the former Israeli ambassador to Greece. In May, he met in Athens with the president of Greece. In September, he met with officials at the British Foreign Office in London.

ABC News.

(11-11-2017, 07:45 AM)scholar Wrote: [ -> ]You know the US has become insane today when:

The answer to endless wars is more wars.

The answer to the police state is more tyranny.

The answer to a dead economy is starting a trade war.

The answer to regulations is more laws.

The answer to endless debt is more debt.

...and the answer to a lack of credibility is even more lies.

Trump is politicizing the census. Surprise, surprise! uh huh....

Trump Is On The Verge Of Politicizing The Census, Advocates Say
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-verge-p...43259.html

President Donald Trump is reportedly leaning toward tapping an academic for the No. 2 position at the U.S. Census Bureau, a decision that has alarmed advocates who say the pick lacks adequate management experience for a massive operational role and has political views that would undermine the credibility of the agency.

Politico reported Tuesday that Trump is considering Thomas Brunell, a professor at the University of Texas at Dallas with no management experience, to be the deputy director of the Census Bureau. If Trump does pick Brunell, Politico noted, it would break with longstanding tradition of having a nonpartisan career civil servant in the role.

Brunell faces increased scrutiny from civil rights and voting groups because as an academic, he has argued that redistricting for partisan gain can actually be a good thing and has served as an expert witness in support of redistricting plans. Those views are significant because the census, which the U.S. Constitution requires every 10 years, helps determine how electoral maps are drawn. The deputy director is responsible for the day-to-day operations of the bureau ― a position that has increased importance as the agency gears up for the 2020 census.

Robert Groves, who ran the Census Bureau from 2009-2012 and is now the provost at Georgetown University, said the deputy director position was traditionally filled by a civil servant who had been promoted through the bureau. Phil Sparks, a former Census official who is now co-director of The Census Project, a coalition that monitors the Census, likened the position to a train engineer who makes sure everything is running on time.

“You want to have a strong person in that position because that’s the day-to-day administrator for the Census Bureau,” Sparks told HuffPost. “The fact that they are considering someone with a highly partisan background just boggles the mind.”

African Americans and Hispanics, two groups Sparks said the Census has traditionally had trouble counting, could suffer significantly if there is not strong and clear organizational leadership at the Census.

Lawmakers are required to draw electoral districts in such a way that each district has roughly the same number of people in it. Federal law prohibits lawmakers from drawing those maps in such a way that intentionally dilutes the impact of minority votes. A good census is crucial to making sure that doesn’t happen by giving lawmakers an accurate sense of the minority populations in each area......

(so Trump could end up facilitating illegal census behavior)

(11-12-2017, 12:32 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-11-2017, 07:45 AM)scholar Wrote: [ -> ]You know the US has become insane today when:

The answer to endless wars is more wars.

The answer to the police state is more tyranny.

The answer to a dead economy is starting a trade war.

The answer to regulations is more laws.

The answer to endless debt is more debt.

...and the answer to a lack of credibility is even more lies.

Right, and the answer to horrible deregulation is more horrible deregulation.

(11-11-2017, 07:45 AM)scholar Wrote: [ -> ]You know the US has become insane today when:

The answer to endless wars is more wars.

The answer to the police state is more tyranny.

The answer to a dead economy is starting a trade war.

The answer to regulations is more laws.

The answer to endless debt is more debt.

I agree completely.  In my opinion, we have only one slim hope to avoid repeating the Russian Experience of 80 years of gloom.  That hope is Mueller, and I am dubious.  Documenting the collapse is a worthy activity in it's own right.

Madness Reigns!

Mike Flynn is expected to plead guilty to lying to the FBI, a technicality in contrast to what he might have been charged with.

(12-01-2017, 10:38 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Mike Flynn is expected to plead guilty to lying to the FBI, a technicality in contrast to what he might have been charged with.

It's done.  Now to see what emerges from that.  Assume a long delay before we know.