Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory

[attachment=20]

Can somebody make this bigger? Thanx

(01-23-2017, 01:59 AM)Marypoza Wrote: [ -> ]Can somebody make this bigger? Thanx

Done

Thanx Rags, l knew l could count on you

(01-23-2017, 01:47 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-23-2017, 12:14 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-22-2017, 05:24 PM)TnT Wrote: [ -> ]Did you catch Kelly Ann's commentary on Sean Spicer's trainwreck?

She called what he said, "Alternate Facts"

We are truly in a world of trouble with this bunch.  I'm torn between hoping for two years of disaster followed by voting the whole gang out of office in the House, and hoping that too much damage is not done.  The latter could result in having to watch this lunatic and his bootlickers for a whole four years.

There are any number of words used to describe Trump by those who dislike him.  I distrust two of them, 'fascist' and 'demagogue'.  They don't seem telling to me, though I'm not inclined at this point to argue against them.

I keep coming back to 'narcissist'.  He has a high opinion of himself and reacts poorly to those who disturb that self image.  Thus, he'll try to do things that he hasn't the skills to achieve while attacking and demeaning those who tarnish his exaggerated self image.

After the smear campaigns directed at Obama and Hillary, the press isn't going to coddle his self image.  The old tradition of coddling the president, of hiding his flaws, is long gone.  If he shows a flaw or a lie, they'll be on it.  Meanwhile, I can see Congress splitting three ways.  There are Republicans who will be trying to ride Tea Party coat tails, and there will be the Establishment corporate types, and...  Isn't there another group?  There might be a potential to make two of the three happy with him, but I'm not sure he has the people skills to pull it off.

I'm still dubious, but enough other people here are predicting doom and gloom that I don't feel the need to join them yet.

Well, I wouldn't underestimate his ability to get things done behind the scenes. Plus, he seems to be able to easily bait/ upset biased professionals with careless tweets and disrupt/mess up  an entire  news day at CNN. You guys should be familiar with the tactics that he's using against a biased group of people who are supposed to be fair and objective. I don't know who has the higher opinion of them self, Donald Trump or the liberal press.

1. Mobsters do practically everything behind the scenes. One does not telegraph an underworld hit. Tyrants are gangsters.

2. The educated professionals are catching on to the patterns of behavior of President Trump before he can consolidate despotic or totalitarian power. When an analysis of the elected leader of a society that has long thought itself a republican democracy begins to look like prose out of Hannah Arendt, then beware!

Is there anything fair about Donald Trump other than his complexion? When such an Orwellian term as "alternative facts" becomes stock language, we are not dealing in objective reality.

So what is an "alternative fact"?

a. The Chicago Cubs won the 1984 World Series.
b. Abraham Lincoln was born on February 12, 1808.
c. Dmitri Shostakovich composed fifteen completed piano sonatas.
d. The Holocaust is a hoax.
e. The legal speed limit on rural freeways in Michigan is 45 mph.
f.  Bakersfield is the capital of California.
g. Plantation slavery was voluntary.
h. People can choose or refuse to obey the law of gravity.
i. Sulfuric acid is a delightful beverage and excellent lotion.
j. Barack Obama was born in Kenya.
k. Barrow, Alaska has a tropical climate.
l. The Democratic People's Republic is a democracy and a republic, and it well serves the people of South Korea.
m. 2 + 2 = 5
n. The proper pronunciation of nuclear is "nuke-you-lure".

Surely you can come up with more. Some of these are harmless mistakes (Shostakovich composed fifteen symphonies and fifteen string quartets, and -- not piano sonatas; the wrong birth-year for Lincoln is likely a typo). Some are hurtful. You cannot make any one of these right without making a fundamental change in the statement.

3. Opinion of oneself means practically nothing.

The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise. -- Proverbs 12:15. King James Version.



A more secular explanation. Take your pick.

(01-23-2017, 11:13 AM)Marypoza Wrote: [ -> ]Thanx Rags, l knew l could count on you

Good Rags. That would have been nice.

(01-23-2017, 03:07 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-23-2017, 01:59 AM)Marypoza Wrote: [ -> ]Can somebody make this bigger? Thanx

Done

-- it is nice Eric! lnfact it's great! ln the spirit of alternative facts & Adam Savage, l reject their reality & substitute my own  

Well, the reality is so surrealistic that it might as well be a substitute reality.

 

(01-23-2017, 08:27 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]Well, the reality is so surrealistic that it might as well be a substitute reality.

Oh, you bet Eric !   In yet another case of what was old is new again, here's to the Lamestream media.

[Album = Surrealistic Pillow ] Heheheheheheeheheheheheheheheh!!!!!

Big lies, big time.






I'm on my way, I'm making it
I've got to make it show, yeah
So much larger than life
I'm going to watch it growing
The place where I come from is a small town
They think so small
They use small words
But not me
I'm smarter than that
I worked it out
I've been stretching my mouth
To let those big words come right out
I've had enough, I'm getting out
To the city, the big big city
I'll be a big noise with all the big boys
There's so much stuff I will own
And I will pray to a big god
As I kneel in the big church
Big time
I'm on my way-I'm making it
Big time big time
I've got to make it show yeah
Big time big time
So much larger than life
Big time
I'm going to watch it growing
Big time
My parties all have big names
And I greet them with the widest smile
Tell them how my life is one big adventure
And always they're amazed
When I show them 'round my house, to my bed
I had it made like a mountain range
With a snow-white pillow for my big fat head
And my heaven will be a big heaven
And I will walk through the front door
Big time
I'm on my way-I'm making it
Big time big time
I've got to make it show-yeah
Big time big time
So much larger than life
I'm going to watch it growing
Big time big time
My car is getting bigger
Big time
My house is getting bigger
Big time
My eyes are getting bigger
Big time
And my mouth
Big time
My belly is getting bigger
Big time
And my bank account
Big time
Look at my circumstance
Big time
And the bulge in my big big big big big big big

(01-22-2017, 05:24 PM)TnT Wrote: [ -> ]Did you catch Kelly Ann's commentary on Sean Spicer's trainwreck?

She called what he said, "Alternate Facts"

We are truly in a world of trouble with this bunch.  I'm torn between hoping for two years of disaster followed by voting the whole gang out of office in the House, and hoping that too much damage is not done.  The latter could result in having to watch this lunatic and his bootlickers for a whole four years.

Trump's a pathological narcissist who lives for constant adoration, so his unpopularity is driving him bonkers, that's what's driving all this.

CNN is reporting that certain politically themed books are doing well since the inauguration.  You'd sort of expect 1984, It Can't Happen Here, and Brave New World.  Hillbilly Eulogy is also mentioned.

Visiting Amazon to create the above links, for some reason 1984 is listed as out of stock...  Searching for the entry of 1984, I typed in the single character '1' on the Amazon web page and 1984 appears as the first entry on a drop down list of what I might be searching for.

If the government can declare a 'War on Drugs' and a 'War on Terror', is it appropriate to note a 'War on Truth'?

(01-24-2017, 07:03 PM)Odin Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-22-2017, 05:24 PM)TnT Wrote: [ -> ]Did you catch Kelly Ann's commentary on Sean Spicer's trainwreck?

She called what he said, "Alternate Facts"

We are truly in a world of trouble with this bunch.  I'm torn between hoping for two years of disaster followed by voting the whole gang out of office in the House, and hoping that too much damage is not done.  The latter could result in having to watch this lunatic and his bootlickers for a whole four years.

Trump's a pathological narcissist who lives for constant adoration, so his unpopularity is driving him bonkers, that's what's driving all this.

Yep.  To a great extent, Hillary's opposition and conservative media came to associate her with the e-mails to the extent that she had trouble projecting other issues.  The press and people got conditioned to snap back into the one thing.  I suspect it is already too late for Trump.  For a large part of the population, whenever he says anything, people will assume he is lying and start conjecturing on what the truth really is.

(01-25-2017, 07:08 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-24-2017, 07:03 PM)Odin Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-22-2017, 05:24 PM)TnT Wrote: [ -> ]Did you catch Kelly Ann's commentary on Sean Spicer's trainwreck?

She called what he said, "Alternate Facts"

We are truly in a world of trouble with this bunch.  I'm torn between hoping for two years of disaster followed by voting the whole gang out of office in the House, and hoping that too much damage is not done.  The latter could result in having to watch this lunatic and his bootlickers for a whole four years.

Trump's a pathological narcissist who lives for constant adoration, so his unpopularity is driving him bonkers, that's what's driving all this.

Yep.  To a great extent, Hillary's opposition and conservative media came to associate her with the e-mails to the extent that she had trouble projecting other issues.  The press and people got conditioned to snap back into the one thing.  I suspect it is already too late for Trump.  For a large part of the population, whenever he says anything, people will assume he is lying and start conjecturing on what the truth really is.

Unfortunately, a large portion of the population of all ideological stripes has been conditioned to assume the mainstream media are a bunch of liars and are out to protect "The Man". And this isn't new, either. Jesse Ventura was going off about the "media jackals" being out to get him because he wasn't from one of the major parties when he was governor here. Trump is taking advantage of this populist hated of the mainstream media and it is dangerous as hell. The Nazis called journalists attacking them the "lying press", the new Far Right is calling anyone who opposes them "fake news".

The Ninth Circuit recently agreed that Trump's executive order to stop certain aliens from entering the US should not be enforced.  Trump responded by calling this a political decision, and announced that he would win easily on appeal.  This makes me wonder if Trump is dealing with a well thought out legal position, or if he is shooting from the hip instinctively.  To often, when confronted with any sort of opposition, his tendency is to insult and confront with little concern for maintaining contact with reality.

Wondering, I actually slogged through the Ninth Circuit's opinion.  I'm not professional legal type, but it felt solid.  If there is politics involved, and I suspect there is, it has been camouflaged well behind a wall of precedent.  The Ninth walked through Trump's lawyer's claims point by point, and rebutted each point.

On the judicial side of things, conservative judges tend to strictly honor the intent of the authors of the law, while progressive judges might be concerned with the rights of the people.  I'm thinking that at least in this case, Trump is over stretching his power while disregarding rights and due process.  He's stepping on the toes of both sorts of judges.  The unanimous decision by a panel appointed by presidents of both parties might suggest Trump will have a problem moving on.

This reflects an ongoing question on my part.  Is Trump lying, or is he living in an alternate reality where he is right?  Does he really believe he has some sort of reasonable legal argument?

(02-10-2017, 05:31 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]...
This reflects an ongoing question on my part.  Is Trump lying, or is he living in an alternate reality where he is right?  Does he really believe he has some sort of reasonable legal argument?

I believe that he really believes that he, as the ultimate authority in the land, should have the final say.  If his assessment is that national security is paramount, then nobody should be able to question him.  The concept of a "reasonable legal argument" doesn't exist for him because that would imply that he is subservient to the law.  He has shown time & time again that he doesn't recognize the law, whether it's his attitude towards torture, or deployment of forces, or a myriad of other things.

(02-10-2017, 08:55 AM)tg63 Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-10-2017, 05:31 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]...
This reflects an ongoing question on my part.  Is Trump lying, or is he living in an alternate reality where he is right?  Does he really believe he has some sort of reasonable legal argument?

I believe that he really believes that he, as the ultimate authority in the land, should have the final say.  If his assessment is that national security is paramount, then nobody should be able to question him.  The concept of a "reasonable legal argument" doesn't exist for him because that would imply that he is subservient to the law.  He has shown time & time again that he doesn't recognize the law, whether it's his attitude towards torture, or deployment of forces, or a myriad of other things.

Altogether too likely for my comfort.  If so, his relationships with the other two branches of government are going to continue to go bad.

(02-10-2017, 05:31 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]The Ninth Circuit recently agreed that Trump's executive order to stop certain aliens from entering the US should not be enforced.  Trump responded by calling this a political decision, and announced that he would win easily on appeal.  This makes me wonder if Trump is dealing with a well thought out legal position, or if he is shooting from the hip instinctively.  To often, when confronted with any sort of opposition, his tendency is to insult and confront with little concern for maintaining contact with reality.

Wondering, I actually slogged through the Ninth Circuit's opinion.  I'm not professional legal type, but it felt solid.  If there is politics involved, and I suspect there is, it has been camouflaged well behind a wall of precedent.  The Ninth walked through Trump's lawyer's claims point by point, and rebutted each point.

On the judicial side of things, conservative judges tend to strictly honor the intent of the authors of the law, while progressive judges might be concerned with the rights of the people.  I'm thinking that at least in this case, Trump is over stretching his power while disregarding rights and due process.  He's stepping on the toes of both sorts of judges.  The unanimous decision by a panel appointed by presidents of both parties might suggest Trump will have a problem moving on.

This reflects an ongoing question on my part.  Is Trump lying, or is he living in an alternate reality where he is right?  Does he really believe he has some sort of reasonable legal argument?

Who elected the Ninth Circuit Court to be the president of the United States? Who elected them to be the law makers (legislative branch) of the United States? Whose rights are actually being disregarded? Do you like America? Do you like living in America? If our rights can be disregarded what makes you think that your rights can't be disregarded? I told you that you'd be wise to stop viewing issues from a blues perspective to begin viewing issues from more of an American's perspective? If you are incapable of doing so, the extreme partisan label that you use can be used and accurately applied to you by me. You keep falling back/slipping back to an emotionally guided blues perspective. Here we are as a nation, trying to get certain things in place national security wise before we (America) begin leading a war against ISIS (a result of a major blue blunder). Where do you think America is at with ISIS? Love's/respects/values them enough to keep them around for decades or want's them all dead one way or another?  Ask yourself this, how did America vote? Did Democrats bringing up their Muslim concerns, young Muslim emotional sob stories about feeling scared about being judged by Americans and using a poor Muslim still suffering from the emotional loss of a son as political pawn against Trumps policies, change the way America voted?

(02-10-2017, 02:06 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-10-2017, 05:31 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]The Ninth Circuit recently agreed that Trump's executive order to stop certain aliens from entering the US should not be enforced.  Trump responded by calling this a political decision, and announced that he would win easily on appeal.  This makes me wonder if Trump is dealing with a well thought out legal position, or if he is shooting from the hip instinctively.  To often, when confronted with any sort of opposition, his tendency is to insult and confront with little concern for maintaining contact with reality.

Wondering, I actually slogged through the Ninth Circuit's opinion.  I'm not professional legal type, but it felt solid.  If there is politics involved, and I suspect there is, it has been camouflaged well behind a wall of precedent.  The Ninth walked through Trump's lawyer's claims point by point, and rebutted each point.

On the judicial side of things, conservative judges tend to strictly honor the intent of the authors of the law, while progressive judges might be concerned with the rights of the people.  I'm thinking that at least in this case, Trump is over stretching his power while disregarding rights and due process.  He's stepping on the toes of both sorts of judges.  The unanimous decision by a panel appointed by presidents of both parties might suggest Trump will have a problem moving on.

This reflects an ongoing question on my part.  Is Trump lying, or is he living in an alternate reality where he is right?  Does he really believe he has some sort of reasonable legal argument?

Who elected the Ninth Circuit Court to be the president of the United States? Who elected them to be the law makers (legislative branch) of the United States? Whose rights are actually being disregarded? Do you like America? Do you like living in America? If our rights can be disregarded what makes you think that your rights can't be disregarded? I told you that you'd be wise to begin viewing issues from a blues perspective to viewing issues from more of an American's perspective? If you are incapable of doing so, the extreme partisan can be accurately applied to you by me. You keep falling back/slipping back to a blues perspective? Here we are as a nation, trying to get certain things in place national security wise before we (America) begin leading a war against ISIS (a result of a major blue blunder). Where do you think America is at with ISIS? Love's/respects/values them enough to keep them around or want's them all dead one way or another?  Ask yourself this, how did America vote? Did bringing up Muslim concerns, young Muslim sob stories and using a Muslim who was still suffering from the emotional loss of a son as political pawn against Trump change the way America voted?

The point has been well made, that if Trump and his supporters can render the judiciary impotent, then that also renders the legislature/congress impotent, because it can pass laws and the president can simply not enforce them. The constitution contains checks and balances, including Courts who can rule on the laws.

I wonder again what is your concern, Classic Xer? There is no threat from any of the people that Trump has banned. Refugees are all thoroughly vetted already. The 7 countries on his list have not been the source of any deaths and even very few incidents of terrorist threats. There was no need to stop travel "until we can tell what's going on." There's nothing going on. Illegal immigration from Mexico is down, and the border is enforced. This is simply stoking prejudice and fear to get support from his base of voters, which includes yourself.

And Drump disrespects the CIA, which are the folks who have stopped terrorist threats through good intelligence.

And you keep conflating your red perspective with an "American" perspective. But the blue side is correct about what American values are, and not your side. They are not xenophobia; they are welcoming to refugees from oppression and poverty. So, you think Emma Lazarus and the Statue of Liberty are un-American? You think the Constitution is un-American? And America did not vote for this. Only the 18th century slaveholders created this Trump situation.

And the war against the IS is solely due to the blunder of your side in invading Iraq when it posed no threat and had not attacked us. That created the IS. Obama pulling troops out in 2011 in accord with an agreement of the Iraqi government with President Bush was not a blunder, and did not create the IS. Al Qaeda in Iraq aka the IS was already there; the Maliki government gave it new life.

And now Trump is in charge of Obama's campaign to help the Iraqis get rid of the IS. I am concerned that this is being endangered by his Muslim ban against travel from Iraq. If the alliance between the new Iraqi government and the USA is broken because of Trump's behavior, then the only way the USA can fight the IS is to invade Iraq again with ground troops, seize the oil fields as he wants, and start another war with Iraq and thereby revive the IS. But, that's what you voted for, so I hope you like it.

What real Americans are up against today. A good summary.

(02-10-2017, 05:31 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]The Ninth Circuit recently agreed that Trump's executive order to stop certain aliens from entering the US should not be enforced.  Trump responded by calling this a political decision, and announced that he would win easily on appeal.  This makes me wonder if Trump is dealing with a well thought out legal position, or if he is shooting from the hip instinctively.  To often, when confronted with any sort of opposition, his tendency is to insult and confront with little concern for maintaining contact with reality.

Wondering, I actually slogged through the Ninth Circuit's opinion.  I'm not professional legal type, but it felt solid.  If there is politics involved, and I suspect there is, it has been camouflaged well behind a wall of precedent.  The Ninth walked through Trump's lawyer's claims point by point, and rebutted each point.

On the judicial side of things, conservative judges tend to strictly honor the intent of the authors of the law, while progressive judges might be concerned with the rights of the people.  I'm thinking that at least in this case, Trump is over stretching his power while disregarding rights and due process.  He's stepping on the toes of both sorts of judges.  The unanimous decision by a panel appointed by presidents of both parties might suggest Trump will have a problem moving on.

This reflects an ongoing question on my part.  Is Trump lying, or is he living in an alternate reality where he is right?  Does he really believe he has some sort of reasonable legal argument?

-- l'm going with the alternative reality. Goes nicely with alternative facts