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(05-19-2020, 09:57 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-19-2020, 09:14 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-18-2020, 11:38 PM)Mickey123 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-18-2020, 06:15 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ] The shelter-in-place policy was intended to slow the spread, not eliminate it.  Places that moved fast, like South Korea, Australia and New Zealand, managed to use isolation to actually bring the virus as close to zero as possible, assuming no foreign traveler brings it back.  In the US, the primary focus was our healthcare system that was being overrun by new cases -- just like Italy.

And let's admit it: living in NYC or any other highly dense city, makes addressing a pandemic that infects so readily a nearly impossible goal to achieve.

The whole world woke up and realized that the shit was hitting the fan at about the same time.

The reason why Australia and New Zealand were able to stop the virus so effectively is that when everyone figured out what was going on, they had very few cases.  By this time, the U.S. already had far too many cases for containment to be possible.  In addition, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control completely fucked up and sent out non-working coronavirus test kits all over the country.  By the time everyone figured out they didn't work and sent them all back and managed to get new ones, the disease was already everywhere.

The U.S. didn't do anything wrong (other than the test kit screwup), it just has too many people and got hit too hard too fast.

Good luck convincing the "America Last" Blue Boomer crowd here of that.  But yes otherwise more or less accurate.

Yah.  We'll probably remember the PPE shortage, the inaction, the ventilator lack of response, the happy talk.  You might get a little reaction if you pushed that.

At least we'll have something more recent and better documented than Nero supposedly fiddling as Rome burned.

And some people say that Trump IS in fact Nero.
(05-18-2020, 05:06 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-18-2020, 03:54 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]It may be that a state like Massachusetts can open earlier and safer than can Georgia. If there is any lasting effect it will be that populist disdain for scientific evidence will be less common.

We're opening shortly in Massachusetts, and in steps.  It is similar to New York, in phases, by the numbers, with potential for steps backwards if (or more accurately, when) outbreaks are detected.  My sister grumbled in a phone call today that we older people are step 4 of 4, but we both have every intent of complying.  The basic blue alliance of states scheme.

We both also agreed that we had seen lots of people out walking, pretty well following distancing rules.  I would likely be out too but for my traditional May pollen allergies.  In addition to the conoravirus no going out, the windows are staying closed and the air filter is running.

Does a truck hit by a kid driving a golf cart violate distancing?  If so, we had a violation yesterday.  Wink  One of the local adults runs a golf cart company.  Have you ever wondered where old golf carts go to die?  Our lake is full of them.

Indeed, Michigan is already planning to open up... first, the Upper Peninsula and the northern counties of the Lower Peninsula -- about June 1.  If I went up north I would still wear a mask and practice social distancing. I am from a toxic part of the state.
A pattern I’ve been watching for a while now is that those who favor the happy talk while killing grandma policy favor hiding how poorly they are doing. Fewer tests. Businesses don’t report test results as it would be bad for businesses. Political meddling with the doctor’s attempts to get information. In short, they don’t want the people to know that the happy talk while killing grandma approach is not working.

My feeling is that there is enough time left until the election that the attempts at cover up are likely to fail. It is only a question of how many people they manage to kill in the attempt? How much anger will they generate before the election?
(05-20-2020, 05:51 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]A pattern I’ve been watching for a while now is that those who favor the happy talk while killing grandma policy favor hiding how poorly they are doing.  Fewer tests.  Businesses don’t report test results as it would be bad for businesses.  Political meddling with the doctor’s attempts to get information.  In short, they don’t want the people to know that the happy talk while killing grandma approach is not working.

My feeling is that there is enough time left until the election that the attempts at cover up are likely to fail.  It is only a question of how many people they manage to kill in the attempt?  How much anger will they generate before the election?


When all else fails, integrity succeeds. Enough catastrophes lead to insistence upon unusual (for the time) expressions of openness. Donald Trump has long been one of those "ask me no questions, and I will tell you no lies" types; maybe it is good for getting someone to buy a clunker used car or rent a slum apartment if one is unwilling to pay top-market prices...
(05-20-2020, 11:13 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-20-2020, 05:51 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]A pattern I’ve been watching for a while now is that those who favor the happy talk while killing grandma policy favor hiding how poorly they are doing.  Fewer tests.  Businesses don’t report test results as it would be bad for businesses.  Political meddling with the doctor’s attempts to get information.  In short, they don’t want the people to know that the happy talk while killing grandma approach is not working.

My feeling is that there is enough time left until the election that the attempts at cover up are likely to fail.  It is only a question of how many people they manage to kill in the attempt?  How much anger will they generate before the election?


When all else fails, integrity succeeds. Enough catastrophes lead to insistence upon unusual (for the time) expressions of openness. Donald Trump has long been one of those "ask me no questions, and I will tell you no lies" types; maybe it is good for getting someone to buy a clunker used car or rent a slum apartment if one is unwilling to pay top-market prices...

I thought Trump just lies out of habit. Even if no one asks questions, he lies anyway.
(05-18-2020, 06:46 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]First, Mr. Horn, I never claimed to have any knowledge of epidemiology.  So we can ignore that little dig.  We know you probably know about as much as I on the matter as well.  That being said the healthcare system is not being over run with cases.  Not even in New York City.  Why?  Most people with the virus are actually asymptomatic.  If they don't feel sick and don't think they are sick they have no reason whatever to go to a hospital.  As such much capacity that was added to deal with Carona stands empty while at the same time necessary life saving procedures are being delayed by the lock down.

The case with Italy is probably a result of Italy being well Italy.  Which reminds me of this:

Old Joke Wrote:Heaven is where the cooks are French, the police are British, the mechanics are German, the lovers
are Italian and everything is organized by the Swiss.
Hell is where the cooks are British, the police are German, the mechanics are French, the lovers are
Swiss, and everything is organized by the Italians.

Next.  Let us suppose the idea was to slow the spread of the virus...that can be more easily done by face masks (to prevent those infected from spreading it rather than from the healthy getting it--that is why and how masks help, I know because I had to do a large PPE presentation at a company meeting and that is exactly why the CDC tells people to wear a face covering [and no an N95 mask isn't required, it is ideal but not required a simple bandanna will do].  The other thing to do is to wash hands, which people handling food should be doing anyway and is required health department training for all my staff anyway.  There was no need to lock down healthy people at all.

Also South Korea, Australia and New Zealand are very small countries and are not suitable comparisons for the US to use.  China is closer but their numbers are heavily skewed.  They aren't testing and they aren't reporting, and quite frankly the CCP can't be trusted.

Let's agree that masking is smart, so we can avoid that topic in the future.  We disagree about isolation and social distancing.  Frankly, this is a disease that infects the respiratory system directly, and has a relatively high R0 of ~2.8 (higher if the incidence of asymptomatic cases proves very common). Masks aren't enough. The disease is simply too infectious.  Which brings us to the issue of crowded conditions and playing by the rules.  The error rate in cities like NYC cannot be very high and still keep the virus at bay.  If you live in a five story walkup with narrow stairs and hallways, all masks need to be N95 … but they aren't.
(05-20-2020, 01:00 PM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-18-2020, 06:46 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]First, Mr. Horn, I never claimed to have any knowledge of epidemiology.  So we can ignore that little dig.  We know you probably know about as much as I on the matter as well.  That being said the healthcare system is not being over run with cases.  Not even in New York City.  Why?  Most people with the virus are actually asymptomatic.  If they don't feel sick and don't think they are sick they have no reason whatever to go to a hospital.  As such much capacity that was added to deal with Carona stands empty while at the same time necessary life saving procedures are being delayed by the lock down.

The case with Italy is probably a result of Italy being well Italy.  Which reminds me of this:

Old Joke Wrote:Heaven is where the cooks are French, the police are British, the mechanics are German, the lovers
are Italian and everything is organized by the Swiss.
Hell is where the cooks are British, the police are German, the mechanics are French, the lovers are
Swiss, and everything is organized by the Italians.

Next.  Let us suppose the idea was to slow the spread of the virus...that can be more easily done by face masks (to prevent those infected from spreading it rather than from the healthy getting it--that is why and how masks help, I know because I had to do a large PPE presentation at a company meeting and that is exactly why the CDC tells people to wear a face covering [and no an N95 mask isn't required, it is ideal but not required a simple bandanna will do].  The other thing to do is to wash hands, which people handling food should be doing anyway and is required health department training for all my staff anyway.  There was no need to lock down healthy people at all.

Also South Korea, Australia and New Zealand are very small countries and are not suitable comparisons for the US to use.  China is closer but their numbers are heavily skewed.  They aren't testing and they aren't reporting, and quite frankly the CCP can't be trusted.

Let's agree that masking is smart, so we can avoid that topic in the future.  We disagree about isolation and social distancing.  Frankly, this is a disease that infects the respiratory system directly, and has a relatively high R0 of ~2.8 (higher if the incidence of asymptomatic cases proves very common). Masks aren't enough. The disease is simply too infectious.  Which brings us to the issue of crowded conditions and playing by the rules.  The error rate in cities like NYC cannot be very high and still keep the virus at bay.  If you live in a five story walkup with narrow stairs and hallways, all masks need to be N95 … but they aren't.

The CDC has good reason to believe that the vast majority of people infected are in fact asymptomatic.  I hope I don't have to explain what the prefix a- means.  In which case this means that this is a disease that nearly everyone gets infected with, but very few people get sick from (usually older and immune compromised people) and even fewer die from (again older people and the immune compromised).


Also there is reason to believe that once one is infected, and recovers they acquire immunity to the virus (hence why survivor serum experiments) so then if we have a very infectious but asymptomatic disease running rampant then that means herd immunity will be acquired far far faster by doing essentially nothing.  

The simple fact of the matter is that this disease was blown way out of proportion by the media (the flu kills more every year than COVID-19 even thought about), which spooked the population to agreeing to absolutely stupid, and probably unconstitutional lock down measures under the guise of emergency management.  It is also possibly an attempt to subvert the elections since it seems the Blue Team wants to bring in mail in balloting which has a notoriously poor record of preventing election fraud.  

It makes me wonder why you blues are so worried about those of us who want to infect and kill grandma work for a living under normal conditions when the dead overwhelmingly vote democratic.

Historically speaking, epidemics burn themselves out by either evolving into less symptomatic forms (like West African Ebola did), or by the population acquiring immunity (the reason why vaccines work). Ultimately unless we do develop a vaccine (which will take a minimum of two years) Covid-19 will burn itself out naturally. Once it does so it probably won't return, or if it does it will be the asymptomatic variety.

Ultimately my business decision to purchase masks for my employees has far more to do with potential liability than it does the epidemic. Under state law I'm required to provide PPE that is reasonably considered to be necessary for the health and safety of my workers, masks are considered to be PPE. It is to me almost the same as providing my bakers with oven mitts.
(05-20-2020, 11:16 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-20-2020, 11:13 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-20-2020, 05:51 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]A pattern I’ve been watching for a while now is that those who favor the happy talk while killing grandma policy favor hiding how poorly they are doing.  Fewer tests.  Businesses don’t report test results as it would be bad for businesses.  Political meddling with the doctor’s attempts to get information.  In short, they don’t want the people to know that the happy talk while killing grandma approach is not working.

My feeling is that there is enough time left until the election that the attempts at cover up are likely to fail.  It is only a question of how many people they manage to kill in the attempt?  How much anger will they generate before the election?


When all else fails, integrity succeeds. Enough catastrophes lead to insistence upon unusual (for the time) expressions of openness. Donald Trump has long been one of those "ask me no questions, and I will tell you no lies" types; maybe it is good for getting someone to buy a clunker used car or rent a slum apartment if one is unwilling to pay top-market prices...

I thought Trump just lies out of habit.  Even if no one asks questions, he lies anyway.


He is a pathological liar.
(05-20-2020, 10:10 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-20-2020, 01:00 PM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-18-2020, 06:46 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]First, Mr. Horn, I never claimed to have any knowledge of epidemiology.  So we can ignore that little dig.  We know you probably know about as much as I on the matter as well.  That being said the healthcare system is not being over run with cases.  Not even in New York City.  Why?  Most people with the virus are actually asymptomatic.  If they don't feel sick and don't think they are sick they have no reason whatever to go to a hospital.  As such much capacity that was added to deal with Carona stands empty while at the same time necessary life saving procedures are being delayed by the lock down.

The case with Italy is probably a result of Italy being well Italy.  Which reminds me of this:

Old Joke Wrote:Heaven is where the cooks are French, the police are British, the mechanics are German, the lovers
are Italian and everything is organized by the Swiss.
Hell is where the cooks are British, the police are German, the mechanics are French, the lovers are
Swiss, and everything is organized by the Italians.

Next.  Let us suppose the idea was to slow the spread of the virus...that can be more easily done by face masks (to prevent those infected from spreading it rather than from the healthy getting it--that is why and how masks help, I know because I had to do a large PPE presentation at a company meeting and that is exactly why the CDC tells people to wear a face covering [and no an N95 mask isn't required, it is ideal but not required a simple bandanna will do].  The other thing to do is to wash hands, which people handling food should be doing anyway and is required health department training for all my staff anyway.  There was no need to lock down healthy people at all.

Also South Korea, Australia and New Zealand are very small countries and are not suitable comparisons for the US to use.  China is closer but their numbers are heavily skewed.  They aren't testing and they aren't reporting, and quite frankly the CCP can't be trusted.

Let's agree that masking is smart, so we can avoid that topic in the future.  We disagree about isolation and social distancing.  Frankly, this is a disease that infects the respiratory system directly, and has a relatively high R0 of ~2.8 (higher if the incidence of asymptomatic cases proves very common). Masks aren't enough. The disease is simply too infectious.  Which brings us to the issue of crowded conditions and playing by the rules.  The error rate in cities like NYC cannot be very high and still keep the virus at bay.  If you live in a five story walkup with narrow stairs and hallways, all masks need to be N95 … but they aren't.

The CDC has good reason to believe that the vast majority of people infected are in fact asymptomatic.  I hope I don't have to explain what the prefix a- means.  In which case this means that this is a disease that nearly everyone gets infected with, but very few people get sick from (usually older and immune compromised people) and even fewer die from (again older people and the immune compromised).

Asymptomatic people are simply lucky. That said, COVID-19 is dangerous, and it can mess up people whom we may have been thinking were in good shape in many ways. People do not die of respiratory diseases in the First World, typically,  unless they have been in danger from other medical conditions (congestive heart failure, cancer, AIDS, etc.)... but 90,000 Americans have already died. That is almost three times the usual death foll from recent years of motor-vehicle deaths,  and more than the total of combat and custody deaths involving soldiers and sailors in either the Korean or Vietnam wars (and rapidly approaching the sum of such deaths in both wars). Asymptomatic people can cough or sneeze the often-lethal virus into someone who get sick and dies. So, yes, wear the mask unless you have gotten through it.   


Quote:Also there is reason to believe that once one is infected, and recovers they acquire immunity to the virus (hence why survivor serum experiments) so then if we have a very infectious but asymptomatic disease running rampant then that means herd immunity will be acquired far far faster by doing essentially nothing.  

Generally true about viral infections -- but we do not yet know all the sequelae. Chickenpox, rheumatic fever, syphilis, gonorrhea, and HIV/AIDS have consequences that can emerge years later. People who have survived the disease have had lasting organic damage. Good reason exists for flattening the curve, so to speak. Ideally we do not get COVID-19 unless as a vaccine of dead viruses.


Quote:The simple fact of the matter is that this disease was blown way out of proportion by the media (the flu kills more every year than COVID-19 even thought about), which spooked the population to agreeing to absolutely stupid, and probably unconstitutional lock down measures under the guise of emergency management.  It is also possibly an attempt to subvert the elections since it seems the Blue Team wants to bring in mail in balloting which has a notoriously poor record of preventing election fraud. 
 
The media did not overplay it. The NBA and NHL truncated their seasons upon finding that some athletes had contracted this disease. The media cannot overplay that. Consequences for shutting down usually-lucrative events are much smaller than infecting players, coaches, and ticket-buying audiences. The most basic rule of good business is do not hurt your customers. This explains why we do not tolerate heroin and cocaine. This explains why Kellogg's Corporation pressed charges on people who recklessly sold them bad peanut butter that Kellogg's avoided using in its Keebler division (that is a big deal near where I live). That explains why one is not allowed to sell liquor to children or to people already intoxicated. 

Big Business shared taking the lead with mostly liberal politicians. These people have good lawyers, and some of the best use of a good attorney is to avoid getting into trouble. The biggest losses that a going-concern big business can get are consequences of egregious misconduct  of its employees. Bad decisions can turn a company from a going concern into the concern of receivers. 


Quote:It makes me wonder why you blues are so worried about those of us who want to infect and kill grandma work for a living under normal conditions when the dead overwhelmingly vote democratic.
 
A stocker at a Wal*Mart  told me that the people who fail to wear masks tend to be on the most reactionary fringe of American politics without quite saying that. These are the people who pooh-pooh science, who have egoistic views of the world... I am guessing that such people are the tax protesters, gun-rights people, Christian Identity, etc.  



Quote:Historically speaking, epidemics burn themselves out by either evolving into less symptomatic forms (like West African Ebola did), or by the population acquiring immunity (the reason why vaccines work).  Ultimately unless we do develop a vaccine (which will take a minimum of two years) Covid-19 will burn itself out naturally.  Once it does so it probably won't return, or if it does it will be the asymptomatic variety.

I hope to avoid COVID-19 long enough to get a vaccine for it or until the disease dies. 

Quote:Ultimately my business decision to purchase masks for my employees has far more to do with potential liability than it does the epidemic.  Under state law I'm required to provide PPE that is reasonably considered to be necessary for the health and safety of my workers, masks are considered to be PPE.  It is to me almost the same as providing my bakers with oven mitts.

Fine. Such is a rational response.
Rachel Maddow latest obsession has been Trump's intent to end the Nation Guard deployment in the COVID 19 emergency at 89 days.  It turns out that at 90 days, the troops would get a benefit bonus in retirement or education.  With the press and congress yelling foul, the deployments doing things like increasing hospital capacity or doing testing in nursing homes look like they will continue.
A recent internet add for a T Shirt.  It had a message of the times printed on it.


Quote:SOCIAL DISTANCING  If I can turn around and PUNCH you in the face YOU'RE TOO CLOSE!!!
I saw two people in the last couple days in stores... both men with "Trump 2020" baseball caps, but no mask.

Oh, the stupid people... where do they all come from!
(05-21-2020, 03:44 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]I saw two people in the last couple days in stores... both men with "Trump 2020" baseball caps, but no mask.

Oh, the stupid people... where do they all come from!

Masks are intended primarily to protect other people. Why do you expect conservatives to care about other people?
Donald Trump is speaking live at a factory in Michigan... without a mask.
(05-21-2020, 03:48 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Donald Trump is speaking live at a factory in Michigan... without a mask.

Image required. Cool 



[Image: cor-mrz041320-color-1-5mb_orig%20%287%29...k=sg-nPWca]
(05-21-2020, 03:47 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-21-2020, 03:44 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]I saw two people in the last couple days in stores... both men with "Trump 2020" baseball caps, but no mask.

Oh, the stupid people... where do they all come from!

Masks are intended primarily to protect other people.  Why do you expect conservatives to care about other people?

As a stocker in Wal*Mart told me as I registered disgust at people not wearing masks, the people not wearing masks seem largely to be on the reactionary part of the political spectrum (without quite saying that) -- a zone infamous for insensitivity, recklessness, sadism, ignorance, and superstitious fatalism. Just think "Tea Party". These were people definitely to avoid when the dispute was politics or economics. Now that it is about a disease that has killed over 90,000 people... the difference goes beyond the nastiness permissible in our system to a matter of life and death. No, the Tea Party types do not have control of the political system.
With the move to reopen the country, the problem with meat processing plants has expanded to other places of business which have high worker density and thus a high R0.  Again, it is not the density of the state that would be relevant, but the density of the company.  Rachel Maddow covers it here.  Among the many locations having to be closed is a USPS sorting facility that handles all of Colorado and Wyoming.  Amazon and UPS were mentioned as well.  There is a wide variety of other types of plants that have been hit, as well as some agricultural workers.

Rachel goes as far as to say this is the next wave.

The thinking solution would be more lines. moving slower, fewer workers spread further apart.  This would require larger  and more buildings.  This would imply less profits.  Doing this for essential functions seems to make sense, but thus far the companies and the administration have resisted it.  Dollars over lives again.

Thus far the National Guard has been turning convention spaces into hospital overflow, among other things.  Somebody might think of making essential services safe.

Cuomo as part of one of his daily talks suggested the rule of one.  In a dense working environment, all it takes is one contaminated worker and you have a community in outbreak.  I'm waiting for Trump to try to veto the rule of one.  He has done everything but.
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COVID-19 Pandemic
'Superspreader' Events May Be Responsible for 80% of COVID Infections
By VOA News



Some scientists now say “superspreader” events may be responsible for at least 80 percent of coronavirus infections.


A report on the website of The Telegraph, a British newspaper, details some findings that “closely packed markets, vigorous dance classes, loud bars and choirs” may be the primary culprits in the spreading of the virus.

The public is already aware that established superspreaders of the virus can include “hospitals, nursing homes, large dormitories, food processing plants and food markets.”
One of the largest spreaders, however, according to the article, came from a bar in the Tyrolean Alps. The Telegraph said hundreds of infections in Britain, Germany, Iceland, Norway and Denmark have been traced back to the Kitzloch bar, “known for its après-ski parties.”

A South Korean study found that “Intense physical exercise in densely populated sports facilities could increase risk for infection” of the coronavirus. It found that 112 people were infected with the virus within 24 days after participating in “dance classes set to Latin rhythms” at 12 indoor locations.

In other studies, choir members were found to be susceptible to contracting the virus, but scientists believe singing was not the only pathway of the spread during the early days of the contagion before social distancing was observed. The coronavirus was likely spread when choir members greeted each other, shared drinks and “talked closely with each other.”

The newspaper account said the virus swept through an Amsterdam choir, infecting 102 of its 130 members.

https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemi...infections
Iran has apparently been undercounting deaths from COVID-19 by a factor of 6 to 1:

Iranian regime’s propaganda has been losing steam for years. Efforts to downplay the coronavirus outbreak have only accelerated that process. There is an ever-widening gulf between the official infection rates and fatality figures on one hand, and independent assessments of the situation on the other. This, of course, means that it is increasingly difficult to sell the regime’s official narrative to the public since doing so requires them to deny the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

According to the regime’s statistics, There have been over 7,000 deaths due to the Covid-19 pandemic. But the latest estimates from the National Council of Resistance of Iran suggest that the true death toll now exceeds 43,800. This is supported by the past three months’ reports from independent Iranian journalists and Iranian medical professionals. Many have risked arrest and harsh prison sentences in order to share information that is wildly out-of-step with the self-aggrandizing image presented to the public by Iranian officials and state media outlets.

While the official death toll is certainly nothing to thumb one’s nose at, it is further mitigated by the clerical regime’s efforts to compare it favorably to the conditions in Western democracies. President Hassan Rouhani has explicitly stated that Tehran’s response to the pandemic was better than that of Washington and a number of European capitals. He has also stated that Iranian hospitals have no shortage of empty ICU beds, while other officials boast that the Islamic Republic is now in a position to sell its medical resources to foreign markets, since they are not needed at home.

But even the latest state media broadcasts do not support such claims. On Thursday, Health Ministry officials admitted that upwards of 10,000 staff in Iranian medical facilities have contracted the coronavirus so far. Of these, 100 reported died before the end of April, and there is no telling how many more have already joined them in the first three weeks of May. Additionally, if the regime’s claims about healthcare workers are anything like its claims about the general population, then both the infection rates and the death toll are surely much higher than have been acknowledged.

Contrary to Rouhani’s prior statements, the outbreak’s impact on Iran’s healthcare industry is much more pronounced than in other hard-hit nations, especially when viewed in proportion to the total population. It should go without saying that the number of infections among doctors and nurses is a testament to Iran’s failure to provide them with personal protective equipment and other resources needed to manage the crisis effectively. This makes it especially shocking that the regime’s authorities dragged their feet on opening the nation’s sovereign wealth fund, then explicitly rejected offers of medical aid from the US and Doctors Without Borders.

The Iranian regime might once have been able to justify those move to some people, particularly those who live outside of affected population centers or have limited access to independently sourced information. But as more and more citizens become aware of certain officials’ acknowledgment of sickness and death among medical professionals, it will become increasingly difficult for the regime’s authorities to keep a lid on the outrage that will inevitably follow.

To their credit, many regime officials and state political analysts are evidently aware of the backlash they are facing from the general population. The Asra think tank issued a report in March that warned of how the public’s trust in state media was already nearing its bottom before the coronavirus even breached the nation’s borders. It pointed to the downing of Ukraine Airlines Flight 752 was a particular low-point, as the regime’s efforts to cover up the Revolutionary Guard’s responsibility was exposed after only days, leading to mass protests in mid-January.

Those protests were all the more remarkable because they came just two months after a nationwide uprising, sparked by increases in the price of gasoline, which met with brutal repression and left 1,500 activists dead. The public response to the Flight 752 incident showed not only that the people were deeply upset by disinformation campaigns, but also that their antipathy toward the regime was sufficient to overcome very valid fears of death at the hands of repressive authorities.

This situation has seemingly been made possible by rising levels of organization in the Iranian protest movement. Whereas a nationwide uprising might have seemed all but impossible several years ago, now there have been two in as many years, with other protests spanning several provinces during the same period. Last November’s uprising was preceded in January 2018 by a series of protests that spanned 150 Iranian cities and towns while bringing anti-government slogans into the mainstream.

Calls for “death to the dictator” have been a common feature of public protests ever since, and this fact has noticeably spooked none other than the dictator himself, the regime’s Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei.

https://www.ncr-iran.org/en/news/the-ira...wo-fronts/

I believe that this is a pro-western source, but it is citing left-wing material.
And Donald Trump's "finest Latin-American Student":

Coronavirus: Brazil headed for catastrophe
President Jair Bolsonaro has refused to take the coronavirus pandemic seriously, even though more than 17,500 Brazilians have already died from the virus. And the number of cases continues to grow exponentially.


Brazil's President Jair Bolsonaro, wearing a face mask, greets supporters during a protest
This past weekend scores of young revelers were out and about in Rio de Janeiro, enjoying the nightlife and gathering for beers along the city's famous beach promenades. No one was wearing the obligatory face mask. After two months of widespread lockdown measures, residents of the city's more affluent neighborhoods were happy to be out of the house, apparently unconcerned about the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic.

Read more: Facing COVID-19, World Health Organization in crisis mode

But in the city's poor neighborhoods, where the coronavirus has been spreading rapidly, people are frightened. A shop clerk who delivers groceries to quarantined locals by bike hopes wearing a mask and washing his hands with disinfectant will keep him safe. His wife, who ordinarily works as a cleaner for wealthy Rio families, has been staying home out of fear of contracting the virus. The couple can barely make ends meet.

Watch video01:56
Brazil calls in doctors from Cuba
As of May 19 Brazil had recorded the world's third-highest number of COVID-19 infections, with more than 262,000 confirmed cases and at least 17,500 deaths attributed to the pandemic, according to official figures collected by Johns Hopkins University.

But health experts believe that, due to a lack of testing, the real number of infections is likely 15 times higher. They also suspect that at least twice as many people have died from the virus; with state hospitals at overcapacity, an increasing number of COVID-19 victims are dying in their homes.

Read more: Brazil's indigenous people brace for coronavirus

The number of coronavirus cases is growing exponentially, and footage of mass graves in the cities of Manaus and Sao Paulo have gone around the world. Yet despite this escalating public health crisis, President Jair Bolsonaro appears unconcerned.

Men prepare to install new spaces for coffins at the Sao Pedro municipal cemetery
In Sao Paulo, cemetery workers are busy creating space for more coffins

Nothing more than a 'little flu'

Bolsonaro has downplayed COVID-19 as nothing more than a "little flu," and accused China of stoking hysteria. He believes the pandemic has been orchestrated exclusively to harm him and US President Donald Trump. To show that he wasn't worried, Bolsonaro and his delegation made an official visit to meet with Trump in early March. But after returning from his trip to Florida, more than 20 of Bolsonaro's aides tested positive for COVID-19 — a public relations disaster for the president.

Bolsonaro, a former paratrooper and athlete, has been ignoring health advice issued by the World Health Organization and his very own health authorities to practice physical distancing. He has made a point of shaking the hands of supporters and taking selfies with them, as they gather outside the presidential palace each Sunday to call for an end to coronavirus restrictions. Bolsonaro has publicly stated that with his "history as an athlete," he would only suffer light symptoms from a SARS-CoV-2 infection.

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-brazil...a-53502907