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(09-24-2020, 01:36 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-17-2020, 04:51 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-16-2020, 10:18 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]The USA had over 40,000 new cases and over a thousand new deaths today from coronavirus. The pandemic is not going away. Most people have been pretty diligent in following the rules and guidelines. I suppose maybe a relatively few skeptics and trumpers and indulgent young party animals are ruining it for everyone else. Or the ways we are trying to limit the spread of the virus just don't work. It seems they work in some places that know how to do it and don't open too soon, but some European countries have failed too, as well as India and Latin America. And in some places we don't know how it's going, because the government won't or can't keep track.

Republicans and sometimes Democrats open things up too soon, following Trump's fantasies. But now it seems too late to correct this, and the pandemic is going to be with us for a long time. They are also going to drag their feet getting the vaccine out to people, using all sorts of excuses. I hope if Biden gets in that the response will be more sane and efficient. But it is frustrating that lots of people are doing something about it and nothing ever changes. Biden's poll numbers are slowly trending downward, and enough people might like happy talk that they might settle for 4 more years of this hell.

I almost believe that we will have to do another lockdown, this one nationwide, and as rigidly as ever in all states. That most likely will be near the start of the Biden Presidency. There might even have to be fuel rationing to keep people from traveling long distances. I didn't do much long-distance driving when Michigan was under lockdown because there was nowhere to go  (because there was nothing to do except -- what-- go to a grocery store? 

We didn't quite get it right the first time, so we will probably have to start over with perhaps 300,000 people dead by then.

Maybe some of us will be delighted to watch how the Hague Tribunal treats President Trump.

I don't think you'll be able to talk Americans into another lock down these days. You might succeed with the Democratic population in some states with heavy Democratic populations like the West Coast states and the Northeastern states but you'll probably loose Minnesota. Minnesota is much more of a libertarian state than a liberal/progressive state these days.

300.000 deaths by January 21 will make another lockdown necessary. COVID-19 is a nasty way to go, and it isn't easy on survivors.

This time it will be as rigid as it was in the states that had the most rigid lockdowns, but in all to states. Human life is worth some hardships and inconveniences.
Candidate for a Darwin Award. Deniers who die of it are in their own league of fools. It is not a good way to go.



https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/form...47225.html
(09-25-2020, 02:13 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Candidate for a Darwin Award. Deniers who die of it are in their own league of fools. It is not a good way to go.



https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/form...47225.html

Speaking of which, CNN has Trump and Melania positive with the hoax.  Not to worry.  It will just go away?  A miracle will happen?
(10-02-2020, 02:20 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-25-2020, 02:13 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Candidate for a Darwin Award. Deniers who die of it are in their own league of fools. It is not a good way to go.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/form...47225.html

Speaking of which, CNN has Trump and Melania positive with the hoax.  Not to worry.  It will just go away?  A miracle will happen?

President on a ventilator? Not a good situation, and one that I cannot deny as a possibility. It would be nearly impossible to govern from a ventilator. We could have a succession even before the election. Trump has age and obesity as pre-existing conditions. I am surprised that he isn't diabetic.
(10-02-2020, 02:39 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]President on a ventilator? Not a good situation, and one that I cannot deny as a possibility. It would be nearly impossible to govern from a ventilator. We could have a succession even before the election. Trump has age and obesity as pre-existing conditions. I am surprised that he isn't diabetic.

Not that bad yet. He would still be in the early phase where is is symptomatic but still capable of working. A ventilator would lag by a few weeks. The next question will be if it is going around the White House, whether Pence catches it too.

I guess this being the second of October, it counts as an October Surprise?
(10-02-2020, 03:15 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-02-2020, 02:39 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]President on a ventilator? Not a good situation, and one that I cannot deny as a possibility. It would be nearly impossible to govern from a ventilator. We could have a succession even before the election. Trump has age and obesity as pre-existing conditions. I am surprised that he isn't diabetic.

Not that bad yet.  He would still be in the early phase where is is symptomatic but still capable of working.  A ventilator would lag by a few weeks.  The next question will be if it is going around the White House, whether Pence catches it too.

I guess this being the second of October, it counts as an October Surprise?

There could be other "October surprises". Any debilitation of the President would be a serious disruption of the election. On the morbid stuff -- Herman Cain most likely contracted COVID-19 in Tulsa on June 20 and died 41 days later on July 30. Should such be the horrible schedule, then President Trump will live long enough to face Election Day  -- but he could be dying or going into severe and irreversible debility.
(10-02-2020, 05:47 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-02-2020, 03:15 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-02-2020, 02:39 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]President on a ventilator? Not a good situation, and one that I cannot deny as a possibility. It would be nearly impossible to govern from a ventilator. We could have a succession even before the election. Trump has age and obesity as pre-existing conditions. I am surprised that he isn't diabetic.

Not that bad yet.  He would still be in the early phase where is is symptomatic but still capable of working.  A ventilator would lag by a few weeks.  The next question will be if it is going around the White House, whether Pence catches it too.

I guess this being the second of October, it counts as an October Surprise?

There could be other "October surprises". Any debilitation of the President would be a serious disruption of the election. On the morbid stuff -- Herman Cain most likely contracted COVID-19 in Tulsa on June 20 and died 41 days later on July 30. Should such be the horrible schedule, then President Trump will live long enough to face Election Day  -- but he could be dying or going into severe and irreversible debility.

Let's be totally morbid, and ask some odd questions:
  1. Is Trump actually sick, or is this a ploy to play-down the virus?  A "dramatic recovery" from a Nothingburger Disease just before election day might trigger his people to flock to the polls.
  2. If he's sick, but has a mild case, does the previous scenario play then as well?
  3. If he's sick and debilitated through the election, wins the election then dies, does Pence become President? 
  4. What if he wins but dies before the election is certified, what then?
  5. What if he dies on or before election day?  Is the election still an election?
No answers here, but worth considering.
(10-02-2020, 08:46 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-02-2020, 05:47 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-02-2020, 03:15 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-02-2020, 02:39 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]President on a ventilator? Not a good situation, and one that I cannot deny as a possibility. It would be nearly impossible to govern from a ventilator. We could have a succession even before the election. Trump has age and obesity as pre-existing conditions. I am surprised that he isn't diabetic.

Not that bad yet.  He would still be in the early phase where is is symptomatic but still capable of working.  A ventilator would lag by a few weeks.  The next question will be if it is going around the White House, whether Pence catches it too.

I guess this being the second of October, it counts as an October Surprise?

There could be other "October surprises". Any debilitation of the President would be a serious disruption of the election. On the morbid stuff -- Herman Cain most likely contracted COVID-19 in Tulsa on June 20 and died 41 days later on July 30. Should such be the horrible schedule, then President Trump will live long enough to face Election Day  -- but he could be dying or going into severe and irreversible debility.

Let's be totally morbid, and ask some odd questions:
  1. Is Trump actually sick, or is this a ploy to play-down the virus?  A "dramatic recovery" from a Nothingburger Disease just before election day might trigger his people to flock to the polls.
  2. If he's sick, but has a mild case, does the previous scenario play then as well?
  3. If he's sick and debilitated through the election, wins the election then dies, does Pence become President? 
  4. What if he wins but dies before the election is certified, what then?
  5. What if he dies on or before election day?  Is the election still an election?
No answers here, but worth considering.

#1/2 is a good point. Today's poll averages (not posted yet) show a recovery for Trump, likely due to sympathy and support for him (although unjustified, since it showed his down-play of the virus coming back on him). I would surmise that Isoka's suggestion, while good, does not mean that The Left is insulting him any more than it usually does anyway, so it may not matter. A recovery could be used to boost his contention that the virus is not so dangerous. I suspect he will recover, but we don't know. If he is debilitated, that could harm his numbers in the longer-run up until the election.

#3-5 yes I think Pence succeeds him in these cases. If Pence too is infected and debilitated, then Pelosi succeeds. If Biden wins the election, then he becomes president on Jan 20, and I think Harris becomes vice-president on that day as well. It appears that the vice president is sworn in at the Jan.20 inauguration. I can't find any wikipedia article that gives any info on whether she will take office when the new Senate convenes. If Pence becomes president by then, it appears the Senate President Pro-Tempore will fulfill the role as president of the Senate.
(10-02-2020, 08:46 AM)David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-02-2020, 05:47 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-02-2020, 03:15 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-02-2020, 02:39 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]President on a ventilator? Not a good situation, and one that I cannot deny as a possibility. It would be nearly impossible to govern from a ventilator. We could have a succession even before the election. Trump has age and obesity as pre-existing conditions. I am surprised that he isn't diabetic.

Not that bad yet.  He would still be in the early phase where is is symptomatic but still capable of working.  A ventilator would lag by a few weeks.  The next question will be if it is going around the White House, whether Pence catches it too.

I guess this being the second of October, it counts as an October Surprise?

There could be other "October surprises". Any debilitation of the President would be a serious disruption of the election. On the morbid stuff -- Herman Cain most likely contracted COVID-19 in Tulsa on June 20 and died 41 days later on July 30. Should such be the horrible schedule, then President Trump will live long enough to face Election Day  -- but he could be dying or going into severe and irreversible debility.

Let's be totally morbid, and ask some odd questions:
  1. Is Trump actually sick, or is this a ploy to play-down the virus?  A "dramatic recovery" from a Nothingburger Disease just before election day might trigger his people to flock to the polls.
  2. If he's sick, but has a mild case, does the previous scenario play then as well?
  3. If he's sick and debilitated through the election, wins the election then dies, does Pence become President? 
  4. What if he wins but dies before the election is certified, what then?
  5. What if he dies on or before election day?  Is the election still an election?

1. If he has tested positive, then he probably is sick. False positives are possible, but once one gets a positive one must assume the worst with so dangerous a disease until such is disproven.

2. That will take time during the last full month of the electoral season. At least two vital weeks of campaigning will be gone for him.

3. Yes. The Vice-President is first in line to the President in the event of the death, debilitation, disqualification, impeachment and removal, or resignation of the President. Mike Pence nominates a Vice-President for approval or disapproval by both Houses of Congress. 

4. It is much too late for the GOP to hold another convention that has any semblance of democratic process to replace the President and Vice-President. Mike Pence would become President, any votes for Trump, cast or yet to be cast, would go to Pence. Mike Pence nominates a Vice-President for approval or disapproval by both Houses of Congress. 

5. Should Biden win, then Pence completes Trump's term and becomes the 46th President, and Biden becomes the 47th President. Should "electors for Donald Trump" prevail, then Pence completes Trump's term for President and continues as President. Mike Pence nominates a Vice-President for approval or disapproval by both Houses of Congress and is eligible to run for re-election in 2024. .
Through the day I was a bit worried that Trump's bug was progressing rapidly.  Rachel Maddow had the same thought, as did a medical guest.  It's just going from an initial positive to the hospital is faster than usual.  I sort of expect a week or two delay from positive, to symptom, to the hospital, to a ventilator.  Trump took one day to do several steps.

I suspect his is a fairly serious case.

I recently put up the end of the Gettysburg Address as my signature.  I am almost considering extending it a bit, opening with "that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain".  You know, this time around the honored dead that gave their last full measure of devotion, many unwittingly, so that one man would continue in power.  

It almost seems wrong to hope that they died in vain.
(10-02-2020, 09:27 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]Through the day I was a bit worried that Trump's bug was progressing rapidly.  Rachel Maddow had the same thought, as did a medical guest.  It's just going from an initial positive to the hospital is faster than usual.  I sort of expect a week or two delay from positive, to symptom, to the hospital, to a ventilator.  Trump took one day to do several steps.

This suggests that the President has been infected for a considerable time. He could be a later and more severe stage than initial reports suggested. This fits a Presidency infamous for sugar-coating, deflection, deceit, and secrecy. Such is true of all 44 and a half months of this Presidency and it is almost certain to remain true.


Quote:I suspect his is a fairly serious case.

Multiple days in the hospital? Such is rarely planned except in desperate situations. For someone as old and obese as President Trump, such indicates a medical calamity. He is receiving an experimental drug that one would not take except in recognition of danger and consequences from the drug as well as the medical situation. 


Quote:I recently put up the end of the Gettysburg Address as my signature.  I am almost considering extending it a bit, opening with "that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain".  You know, this time around the honored dead that gave their last full measure of devotion, many unwittingly, so that one man would continue in power.

Donald Trump reminds me of the sort of political leader who sacrifices much cannon fodder for his glory as a wartime leader. Such is death on behalf of a cause of horrible vanity. 

208,000 people have died in vain, according to one estimate. The next city on the grim list is Oxnard, California, a city that people with no connections to the state may not know about. That is the 110th-largest city in the United States. #111 (Rochester, formerly "Camera City" when Kodak and Polaroid were going concerns) and  #109 is Birmingham, Alabama, which most people can locate on a map. Add the populations of two very different college towns (Boulder, Colorado and South Bend, Indiana) and you get almost 208,000 people.

Quote:It almost seems wrong to hope that they died in vain.


These people died, often horribly. Dying in a life-saving effort, in enforcing the law, or in securing a military victory is heroic. Dying rather than betraying associates to the Nazis is heroic. Denying oneself food so that one starves so that one's children might survive in a Nazi concentration is heroic. There is nothing heroic about dying of a respiratory infection in civilian life.  One achieves nothing except for leaving the resources of the world to someone else. Nobody will get any Purple Heart for dying of COVID-19. 

Maybe I would be more reckless if I had a terminal diagnosis, taking chances to give someone a vicarious adventure. (Such would change every calculation of cost and benefit of risky behavior). Would I run into a burning building to rescue a child from death by fire at risk of my life? I have never been tested. 

I didn't take chances with AIDS, and I am not taking chances with COVID-19.
(10-02-2020, 01:17 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]#3-5 yes I think Pence succeeds him in these cases. If Pence too is infected and debilitated, then Pelosi succeeds. If Biden wins the election, then he becomes president on Jan 20, and I think Harris becomes vice-president on that day as well. It appears that the vice president is sworn in at the Jan.20 inauguration. I can't find any Wikipedia article that gives any info on whether she will take office when the new Senate convenes. If Pence becomes president by then, it appears the Senate President Pro-Tempore will fulfill the role as president of the Senate.

You might be right in the end, but I've read enough speculation from the legal community to believe that it will become a legal event of cosmic proportions, unless the Supremes take it on immediately.  In that case, it becomes a cosmic political issue for 2022 and beyond.  So it's a mess -- one best avoided like the 2000 election intervention that gave us GWB.
(10-02-2020, 09:27 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]Through the day I was a bit worried that Trump's bug was progressing rapidly.  Rachel Maddow had the same thought, as did a medical guest.  It's just going from an initial positive to the hospital is faster than usual.  I sort of expect a week or two delay from positive, to symptom, to the hospital, to a ventilator.  Trump took one day to do several steps.

I suspect his is a fairly serious case.

I recently put up the end of the Gettysburg Address as my signature.  I am almost considering extending it a bit, opening with "that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain".  You know, this time around the honored dead that gave their last full measure of devotion, many unwittingly, so that one man would continue in power.  

It almost seems wrong to hope that they died in vain.
I think it's normal for Trump to take precautionary steps like he did at this point. It makes sense to me.
(10-03-2020, 02:48 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's normal for Trump to take precautionary steps like he did at this point. It makes sense to me.

It is certainly normal for Trump to paint a rosy picture of COVID. It is normal for him to hide stuff from the people. It is normal for him to be all in favor of exotic treatments and miracle stuff. Lots of stuff regarding Trump is in character.

The accelerated timeframe of COVID? Less normal.

This does seem one time his habit of lying to the people or feeding them lies may be backfiring. People wouldn't be expecting the truth even if he offered it.
The AP has the White House chief of staff saying the next few days would be critical in Trump's fight with the virus. It is way early for a case which has only been detected recently to be critical, and it is hard to say a case is not critical if the next few days are critical.

It's just a matter of messaging, but the happy talk on the subject has been long established. If I apply the difference between Earth 1 and Earth 2 to this statement, Trump has a critical case.
(10-03-2020, 02:48 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-02-2020, 09:27 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]Through the day I was a bit worried that Trump's bug was progressing rapidly.  Rachel Maddow had the same thought, as did a medical guest.  It's just going from an initial positive to the hospital is faster than usual.  I sort of expect a week or two delay from positive, to symptom, to the hospital, to a ventilator.  Trump took one day to do several steps.

I suspect his is a fairly serious case.

I recently put up the end of the Gettysburg Address as my signature.  I am almost considering extending it a bit, opening with "that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain".  You know, this time around the honored dead that gave their last full measure of devotion, many unwittingly, so that one man would continue in power.  

It almost seems wrong to hope that they died in vain.
I think it's normal for Trump to take precautionary steps like he did at this point. It makes sense to me.

What part of "This virus will kill you if you don't get appropriate medical care" do you think President Trump understand?

COVID-19 is not a quick kill. I suspect that it is more advanced than we were led to believe. Secrecy and deceit are hallmarks of this President.
I rarely report sports stories, but an American institution (NFL football) has had to postpone a game because a quarterback for one of the teams has COVID-19:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/chiefs-pa...f6a25115d7


The NFL postponed this week’s game between New England and the Super Bowl champion Kansas City Chiefs after “positive COVID-19 tests on both teams.” ESPN reported on Saturday that Patriots quarterback Cam Newton was among those testing positive.

The NFL said on Saturday that the game, originally scheduled for 4:25 p.m. EDT on Sunday, will be played on Monday or Tuesday, a move that would be possible only if there is no wider spread of the disease on the rosters.

The Patriots confirmed that a player has tested positive but did not reveal his name. Newton’s agent did not immediately respond to a message from The Associated Press seeking confirmation.

The only known Chiefs player to test positive is quarterback Jordan Ta’amu, a member of the practice squad who has not appeared in a game but would have spent time in meetings with Super Bowl MVP Pat Mahomes and the team’s other QBs.

It is the second game this weekend that has been affected by COVID-19. After an outbreak on the Titans, the matchup between Pittsburgh and Tennessee was postponed — originally for a day or two, and then until Oct. 25 as the positive tests accumulated.

To fit it in, the Steelers’ game against Baltimore that day was pushed back to Nov. 1.

The Patriots had been planning to fly to Kansas City on Saturday afternoon. Instead, players left the facility to await further instructions. The team said in a statement that the COVID-positive player has entered self-quarantine and that players, coaches, and staff who were in close contact with him were tested Saturday morning and all were negative.

Earlier this week, Patriots defensive back Devin McCourty said the league might have grown overconfident after making it through training camps and the first two weeks of the season without a major outbreak.

“But at the end of the day, we are in a pandemic,” he said. “So what happened in Tennessee, although it kind of shocks us, it’s not really surprising. I think we all knew at some point we might get some positive tests.

“So it’s like, ‘We got this,’” he said. “I think this is just a little shocker, but it’s also a wakeup call, like ‘Hey, the virus is still here and it will affect any and everybody. It doesn’t care that we’re trying to play football.’”

(Huffington Post)
(10-03-2020, 04:47 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-03-2020, 02:48 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-02-2020, 09:27 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]Through the day I was a bit worried that Trump's bug was progressing rapidly.  Rachel Maddow had the same thought, as did a medical guest.  It's just going from an initial positive to the hospital is faster than usual.  I sort of expect a week or two delay from positive, to symptom, to the hospital, to a ventilator.  Trump took one day to do several steps.

I suspect his is a fairly serious case.

I recently put up the end of the Gettysburg Address as my signature.  I am almost considering extending it a bit, opening with "that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain".  You know, this time around the honored dead that gave their last full measure of devotion, many unwittingly, so that one man would continue in power.  

It almost seems wrong to hope that they died in vain.
I think it's normal for Trump to take precautionary steps like he did at this point. It makes sense to me.

What part of "This virus will kill you if you don't get appropriate medical care" do you think President Trump understand?

COVID-19 is not a quick kill. I suspect that it is more advanced than we were led to believe. Secrecy and deceit are hallmarks of this President.
So, what are going to do when he's back on track and pretty much back to normal within a few weeks?
(10-04-2020, 02:51 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]I rarely report sports stories, but an American institution (NFL football) has had to postpone a game because a quarterback for one of the teams has COVID-19:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/chiefs-pa...f6a25115d7


The NFL postponed this week’s game between New England and the Super Bowl champion Kansas City Chiefs after “positive COVID-19 tests on both teams.” ESPN reported on Saturday that Patriots quarterback Cam Newton was among those testing positive.

The NFL said on Saturday that the game, originally scheduled for 4:25 p.m. EDT on Sunday, will be played on Monday or Tuesday, a move that would be possible only if there is no wider spread of the disease on the rosters.

The Patriots confirmed that a player has tested positive but did not reveal his name. Newton’s agent did not immediately respond to a message from The Associated Press seeking confirmation.

The only known Chiefs player to test positive is quarterback Jordan Ta’amu, a member of the practice squad who has not appeared in a game but would have spent time in meetings with Super Bowl MVP Pat Mahomes and the team’s other QBs.

It is the second game this weekend that has been affected by COVID-19. After an outbreak on the Titans, the matchup between Pittsburgh and Tennessee was postponed — originally for a day or two, and then until Oct. 25 as the positive tests accumulated.

To fit it in, the Steelers’ game against Baltimore that day was pushed back to Nov. 1.

The Patriots had been planning to fly to Kansas City on Saturday afternoon. Instead, players left the facility to await further instructions. The team said in a statement that the COVID-positive player has entered self-quarantine and that players, coaches, and staff who were in close contact with him were tested Saturday morning and all were negative.

Earlier this week, Patriots defensive back Devin McCourty said the league might have grown overconfident after making it through training camps and the first two weeks of the season without a major outbreak.

“But at the end of the day, we are in a pandemic,” he said. “So what happened in Tennessee, although it kind of shocks us, it’s not really surprising. I think we all knew at some point we might get some positive tests.

“So it’s like, ‘We got this,’” he said. “I think this is just a little shocker, but it’s also a wakeup call, like ‘Hey, the virus is still here and it will affect any and everybody. It doesn’t care that we’re trying to play football.’”

(Huffington Post)
It doesn't seem to care about the impacts that it has on fantasy football teams/leagues/lineups either.