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Full Version: Donald Trump: polls of approval and favorability
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(02-23-2021, 12:15 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-22-2021, 02:48 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-22-2021, 02:27 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-22-2021, 01:02 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]I love the assumption, coming from well-to-do (relatively apeaking) members of the American labor aristocracy as populate this board, that a proletarian revolution would be immiserating.

For you, perhaps.


I think it would be both proper and fitting for the Democratic party and its strongholds to end by  succumbing to a proletarian revolution myself.

That goes for the Republicans, too. It never fails to amaze me that conservatives don't see that the GOP is just the functional counterpoint of the Democratic Party- white Christian identity politics etc.

You, as a small business owner,  are doomed by the capitalist system. It wants to resubmerge you back into the proletariat, and will succeed. You can either embrace the forces trying to destroy you or see that the only alternative is a united working class, global in scope, that smashes their system and all its workings into junk. And you can work for that even if it does not come to fruition in your time.
We know there's a group of Republicans who are in cahoots with the Democrats (5 Senators, 10 Congress people). We refer to them as half Republicans or Rhino's these days. We've known about them for many years now. They're about as spineless and wishy washy and eager to please/bow down to the media and corporations/donor class as the Democrats these days.

No, you twit - they're all in cahoots with each other.

Actually, this is a gross oversimplification- they genuinely believe that they are all in opposition to each other, and this false consciousness impels them to act in ways that are self-destructive of the system. But there is a fundamental unity of class interest st the very bottom of things, which manifests as different competing strategies (the needs of a rural capitalist miner are very different from a NYC importer). They are a band of warring brothers, and this extends to AOC, Sanders, Paul, all of them.

Both the Democrat representing NYC and the Republican representing OKC rely on the same strategies (identity politics etc.) to get elected. Once elected, they tie those strategies into the needs of their local capitalist class. They are all the enemy, every last one of them.
(02-22-2021, 10:59 AM)> David Horn Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-22-2021, 02:27 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-22-2021, 01:02 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]I love the assumption, coming from well-to-do (relatively speaking) members of the American labor aristocracy as populate this board, that a proletarian revolution would be immiserating.

For you, perhaps.

I think it would be both proper and fitting for the Democratic party and its strongholds to end by  succumbing to a proletarian revolution myself.

Let's start by agreeing that any change this dramatic will trigger some degree of violence -- how much is still TBD.  But let's assume that at least two sides are ideologically wedded to fighting to the end.  If so, then yes, a proletarian revolution will hurt everyone.  

FWIW, I don't see the proletariat revolting.  I see the petty bourgeoise carrying that torch.  The proletariat are too burdened to "mount the barricades",  but a put upon class of small business owners like you might take it on.  You have the grievance part down pat.
A proletarian revolution would hurt the Democratic side much more than the Republican side (the American right). I don't know, the proletariat seemed to have plenty of time on its hands last summer since it was able to continue battling with police pretty much non stop for several months. You must not have seen all the violence (the proletarian revolution of sorts) and all the damage that occurred last summer that went on for several months all over the country. Is it your political bias that's causing a problem with your inability to see/acknowledge what we saw last summer or is it your eye sight, hearing or your memory associated with your age that's failing you? As far I could tell, you were able to see and you were fully aware of it as it was going on back then.

You should know by now that we're either going to fight to the bitter end or split the country and force the Democrats to make the same mistake as the British/Confederates/Imperialist Japanese did and trigger an all out war with all Americans. Like I said, the American right doesn't represent slavery or a monarchy/aristocracy or fascism/communism or a particular religious faith or  any other form of a dictatorship. The Democrats do today. As I told Bob, the country isn't the same country as it was during our grandparents time. The country has more American believers today than it had back then. All the Democratic groups are doing now is setting themselves up for defeat/slaughter when America sets rule aside and takes its gloves off.

The American right represents American freedom, the American Constitution, the American flag, American values and core principles and the American way of life like it always has throughout American history. I don't care who wins a war between fascist Democrats ( the Woke's) and socialist Democrats (the urban social justice crowd/third world mentalities). If we're separated, we'll defeat which ever group wins or if we're not, we'll destroy both of them at the same time during a Civil War war. What's a dead billionaire or a dead heir of some billionaire of the past worth?
(02-23-2021, 12:44 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-23-2021, 12:15 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-22-2021, 02:48 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-22-2021, 02:27 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-22-2021, 01:02 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]I love the assumption, coming from well-to-do (relatively apeaking) members of the American labor aristocracy as populate this board, that a proletarian revolution would be immiserating.

For you, perhaps.


I think it would be both proper and fitting for the Democratic party and its strongholds to end by  succumbing to a proletarian revolution myself.

That goes for the Republicans, too. It never fails to amaze me that conservatives don't see that the GOP is just the functional counterpoint of the Democratic Party- white Christian identity politics etc.

You, as a small business owner,  are doomed by the capitalist system. It wants to resubmerge you back into the proletariat, and will succeed. You can either embrace the forces trying to destroy you or see that the only alternative is a united working class, global in scope, that smashes their system and all its workings into junk. And you can work for that even if it does not come to fruition in your time.
We know there's a group of Republicans who are in cahoots with the Democrats (5 Senators, 10 Congress people). We refer to them as half Republicans or Rhino's these days. We've known about them for many years now. They're about as spineless and wishy washy and eager to please/bow down to the media and corporations/donor class as the Democrats these days.

No, you twit - they're all in cahoots with each other.

Actually, this is a gross oversimplification- they genuinely believe that they are all in opposition to each other, and this false consciousness impels them to act in ways that are self-destructive of the system. But there is a fundamental unity of class interest st the very bottom of things, which manifests as different competing strategies (the needs of a rural capitalist miner are very different from a NYC importer). They are a band of warring brothers, and this extends to AOC, Sanders, Paul, all of them.

Both the Democrat representing NYC and the Republican representing OKC rely on the same strategies (identity politics etc.) to get elected. Once elected, they tie those strategies into the needs of their local capitalist class. They are all the enemy, every last one of them.
Well, both sides are capitalist and both are in cahoots that way. You're the twit who hasn't come to grips with the fact that you were born in a capitalist country. You quit before you started, whose fault is that? I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth but that didn't stop me from learning a skill and making a decent living and accumulating wealth. I didn't have someone misguiding me and telling me stupid shit or teaching me that I'm inferior and I'll never make it without them. So, who fucked up you? Did someone like Eric indoctrinate you and fuck you up? Lots of that going on these days with the internet being the way that it is these days.
(02-23-2021, 12:44 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-23-2021, 12:15 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-22-2021, 02:48 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-22-2021, 02:27 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-22-2021, 01:02 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]I love the assumption, coming from well-to-do (relatively apeaking) members of the American labor aristocracy as populate this board, that a proletarian revolution would be immiserating.

For you, perhaps.


I think it would be both proper and fitting for the Democratic party and its strongholds to end by  succumbing to a proletarian revolution myself.

That goes for the Republicans, too. It never fails to amaze me that conservatives don't see that the GOP is just the functional counterpoint of the Democratic Party- white Christian identity politics etc.

You, as a small business owner,  are doomed by the capitalist system. It wants to resubmerge you back into the proletariat, and will succeed. You can either embrace the forces trying to destroy you or see that the only alternative is a united working class, global in scope, that smashes their system and all its workings into junk. And you can work for that even if it does not come to fruition in your time.
We know there's a group of Republicans who are in cahoots with the Democrats (5 Senators, 10 Congress people). We refer to them as half Republicans or Rhino's these days. We've known about them for many years now. They're about as spineless and wishy washy and eager to please/bow down to the media and corporations/donor class as the Democrats these days.

No, you twit - they're all in cahoots with each other.

Actually, this is a gross oversimplification- they genuinely believe that they are all in opposition to each other, and this false consciousness impels them to act in ways that are self-destructive of the system. But there is a fundamental unity of class interest st the very bottom of things, which manifests as different competing strategies (the needs of a rural capitalist miner are very different from a NYC importer). They are a band of warring brothers, and this extends to AOC, Sanders, Paul, all of them.

Both the Democrat representing NYC and the Republican representing OKC rely on the same strategies (identity politics etc.) to get elected. Once elected, they tie those strategies into the needs of their local capitalist class. They are all the enemy, every last one of them.

Political life at its best is transactional: that one gives up something to get something. It requires people to contemplate that the Other Side of some sectarian, regional, interethnic, or interclass rift is legitimate. When that breaks down one gets at first gridlock, and perhaps (if nothing resolves itself) a command-and-control system. 

Marxism depends upon the assumption that the economic elites operate as a monolith without conflicts between urban and rural elites, between ownership and management, and between the blatant money-grubbers and the creative people. When the economic elites are all joined in purpose, then Marx' depiction of capitalist society fits well. When Marxism describes the economic and political order well, that order has decayed into a nightmare. 

The ultimate expression of identity politics is the class struggle.
(02-23-2021, 12:44 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]No, you twit - they're all in cahoots with each other.

Actually, this is a gross oversimplification- they genuinely believe that they are all in opposition to each other, and this false consciousness impels them to act in ways that are self-destructive of the system. But there is a fundamental unity of class interest st the very bottom of things, which manifests as different competing strategies (the needs of a rural capitalist miner are very different from a NYC importer). They are a band of warring brothers, and this extends to AOC, Sanders, Paul, all of them.

Both the Democrat representing NYC and the Republican representing OKC rely on the same strategies (identity politics etc.) to get elected. Once elected, they tie those strategies into the needs of their local capitalist class. They are all the enemy, every last one of them.

If all the politicians are on the other side of the line, then it's unlikely your side of the line will ever win.
(02-23-2021, 01:58 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]A proletarian revolution would hurt the Democratic side much more than the Republican side (the American right). I don't know, the proletariat seemed to have plenty  of time on its hands last summer since it was able to continue battling with police pretty much non stop for several months. You must not have seen all the violence (the proletarian revolution of sorts) and all the damage that occurred last summer that went on for several months all over the country. Is it your political bias that's causing a problem with your inability to see/acknowledge what we saw last summer or is it your eye sight, hearing or your memory associated with your age that's failing you? As far I could tell, you were able to see and you were fully aware of it as it was going on back then.

You should know by now that we're either going to fight to the bitter end or split the country and force the Democrats to make the same mistake as the British/Confederates/Imperialist Japanese did and trigger an all out war with all Americans. Like I said, the American right doesn't represent slavery or a monarchy/aristocracy or fascism/communism or a particular religious faith or  any other form of a dictatorship. The Democrats do today. As I told Bob, the country isn't the same country as it was during our grandparents time. The country has more American believers today than it had back then. All the Democratic groups are doing now is setting themselves up for defeat/slaughter when America sets rule aside and takes its gloves off.

The American right represents American freedom, the American Constitution, the American flag, American values and core principles and the American way of life like it always has throughout American history. I don't care who wins a war between fascist Democrats ( the Woke's) and socialist Democrats (the urban social justice crowd/third world mentalities). If we're separated, we'll defeat which ever group wins or if we're not, we'll destroy both of them at the same time during a Civil War war. What's a dead billionaire or a dead heir of some billionaire of the past worth?

The Confederates were the cavalier, rural, racist faction. They lost. They have contributed heavily to the US in many ways, but when they confront the roundhead, urban, principled culture head on they lose.

The red support the Constitution, the flag, many of the values and core principles, but they take exception to solving the problems confronting the culture, most notably racism. Conservatives want to keep the current structure unchanged, which is why the don't want to solve problems that can only be solved by changing that structure. They are on the do nothing side on all the current crisis level problems. That is why they have lost in the past, and why I anticipate the conservative values will fail again given the crisis mind set. In the crisis heart, the focused disciplined objective is to solve the crisis problems.
(02-23-2021, 12:15 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-22-2021, 02:48 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-22-2021, 02:27 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-22-2021, 01:02 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]I love the assumption, coming from well-to-do (relatively apeaking) members of the American labor aristocracy as populate this board, that a proletarian revolution would be immiserating.

For you, perhaps.


I think it would be both proper and fitting for the Democratic party and its strongholds to end by  succumbing to a proletarian revolution myself.

That goes for the Republicans, too. It never fails to amaze me that conservatives don't see that the GOP is just the functional counterpoint of the Democratic Party- white Christian identity politics etc.

You, as a small business owner,  are doomed by the capitalist system. It wants to resubmerge you back into the proletariat, and will succeed. You can either embrace the forces trying to destroy you or see that the only alternative is a united working class, global in scope, that smashes their system and all its workings into junk. And you can work for that even if it does not come to fruition in your time.
We know there's a group of Republicans who are in cahoots with the Democrats (5 Senators, 10 Congress people). We refer to them as half Republicans or Rhino's these days. We've known about them for many years now. They're about as spineless and wishy washy and eager to please/bow down to the media and corporations/donor class as the Democrats these days.

The 7 Republicans senators and 10 congresspeople who voted to convict Trump are actual Republicans. The rest are just Trump loyalists. You and other Trump loyalists are simply the Party of Trump, now. It is a cult of personality only. When he goes, it will go, and the Republicans will just go back to being the Republicans again-- wrong as before on all the policy issues, but at least no longer hypnotized by one man who does not respect law, democracy or decency.
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