07-29-2020, 03:11 PM
(07-29-2020, 01:33 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]Trump's not a mad man.
A questionable assumption. Very questionable. Well see what the general opinion is after 98 more days.
(07-29-2020, 01:33 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]Trump's not a mad man.
(07-29-2020, 09:19 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]1.. Einzige -- orthodox Marxism-Leninism is dead. It has no viable derivative in the United States.
Quote:It is not a question of what this or that proletarian, or even the whole proletariat, at the moment regards as its aim. It is a question of what the proletariat is, and what, in accordance with this being, it will historically be compelled to do. Its aim and historical action is visibly and irrevocably foreshadowed in its own life situation as well as in the whole organization of bourgeois society today.
Quote:Government ownership of productive capacity is even becoming irrelevant as much of the value created in America is intellectual property, the result not so much of material creation as of imagination and staging.
Quote:But, the transformation — either into joint-stock companies and trusts, or into State-ownership — does not do away with the capitalistic nature of the productive forces. In the joint-stock companies and trusts, this is obvious. And the modern State, again, is only the organization that bourgeois society takes on in order to support the external conditions of the capitalist mode of production against the encroachments as well of the workers as of individual capitalists. The modern state, no matter what its form, is essentially a capitalist machine — the state of the capitalists, the ideal personification of the total national capital. The more it proceeds to the taking over of productive forces, the more does it actually become the national capitalist, the more citizens does it exploit. The workers remain wage-workers — proletarians. The capitalist relation is not done away with. It is, rather, brought to a head. But, brought to a head, it topples over. State-ownership of the productive forces is not the solution of the conflict.
(07-29-2020, 08:03 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]Scientists create systems of ideas like relativity, Marxism or S&H turning theory. Engineers create things that put these ideas into practical use. Being an engineer, I sort of think it a two way street. I tended to take an idea and make it reality.
(07-28-2020, 10:13 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]If you are not involving yourself with the two ideal systems involved in the latest crisis, you are a poor student of turning theory. Marxism was last a viable set of values when the New Deal was a new deal. As the result of Marxist theory as it practically gets put in practice became clear, it became a non starter. Not a factor.Again, Marxism is not a set of ideas to be put into practice. It is a mode of analysis and a method of criticism. Communism is independent of it.
(07-28-2020, 10:13 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]An impressive foresight of how computers would evolve from a time well before computers. Give Marx a brownie point or two.It puts to bed the notion that Marxist critique is only applicable to a society of factory floor physical laborers. Marx called computers in 1857.
Quote:However, nukes, insurgent conflict and computers have changed the basic pattern of civilization. Notably, violent triggers are rare to nonexistent in major democracies. No revolutions. This kind of changes how cultures improve and was not anticipated by Marx. It renders his whole system obsolete.Yes; as we've seen with the lasting, enduring legacy of Obamacare, legislative change is all we need.
Quote:Not a Bronze Age thinker. The Bronze Age was back in the Agricultural Age, and Marx was definitely an Industrial Age thinker.
(07-28-2020, 10:13 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]Again, blue is the newer of the two value systems at odds in the current crisis. That statement show you are hopelessly ignorant of the S&H turning approach to viewing history.
(07-28-2020, 10:13 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]It seems he did not anticipate how it would effect the changes in values. Absurdly rare triggers. None observed. No revolutions. This lack of anticipation is not surprising given his time, but renders his whole system obsolete.
Quote:The bourgeoisie, wherever it has got the upper hand, has put an end to all feudal, patriarchal, idyllic relations. It has pitilessly torn asunder the motley feudal ties that bound man to his “natural superiors”, and has left remaining no other nexus between man and man than naked self-interest, than callous “cash payment”. It has drowned the most heavenly ecstasies of religious fervour, of chivalrous enthusiasm, of philistine sentimentalism, in the icy water of egotistical calculation. It has resolved personal worth into exchange value, and in place of the numberless indefeasible chartered freedoms, has set up that single, unconscionable freedom – Free Trade. In one word, for exploitation, veiled by religious and political illusions, it has substituted naked, shameless, direct, brutal exploitation.
(07-29-2020, 11:29 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ](07-29-2020, 09:19 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]1. Einzige -- orthodox Marxism-Leninism is dead. It has no viable derivative in the United States. Even fascism of the neo-Nazi and KKK types (the two are merging) has more mass support in America. Those are sick people, the leaders of fascist cliques typically sociopaths and the followers hard to find unless as duplicates.
Duplicates? I have a vision out of the Star Wars Clone Wars of a bunch of identical people populating a Klan rally.
Ugh.
(07-29-2020, 09:41 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ](07-29-2020, 11:29 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ](07-29-2020, 09:19 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]1. Einzige -- orthodox Marxism-Leninism is dead. It has no viable derivative in the United States. Even fascism of the neo-Nazi and KKK types (the two are merging) has more mass support in America. Those are sick people, the leaders of fascist cliques typically sociopaths and the followers hard to find unless as duplicates.
Duplicates? I have a vision out of the Star Wars Clone Wars of a bunch of identical people populating a Klan rally.
Ugh.
I'm not familiar with that part of Star Wars... but in the evil of the Empire I see the pathological conformity that one associates with Nazis and Ku Kluxers.
(07-29-2020, 05:14 PM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ](07-29-2020, 09:19 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]1.. Einzige -- orthodox Marxism-Leninism is dead. It has no viable derivative in the United States.
A. I'm not a Marxist-Leninist.
Quote:B. Communism is a response to objective conditions which will exist, not an ideology to be implemented.
Quote:It is not a question of what this or that proletarian, or even the whole proletariat, at the moment regards as its aim. It is a question of what the proletariat is, and what, in accordance with this being, it will historically be compelled to do. Its aim and historical action is visibly and irrevocably foreshadowed in its own life situation as well as in the whole organization of bourgeois society today.
- Marx, The Holy Family
Quote:Government ownership of productive capacity is even becoming irrelevant as much of the value created in America is intellectual property, the result not so much of material creation as of imagination and staging.
Communism is not "government ownership of the means of production". Read Engels' Socialism: Utopian & Scientific, Chapter III.
Quote:But, the transformation — either into joint-stock companies and trusts, or into State-ownership — does not do away with the capitalistic nature of the productive forces. In the joint-stock companies and trusts, this is obvious. And the modern State, again, is only the organization that bourgeois society takes on in order to support the external conditions of the capitalist mode of production against the encroachments as well of the workers as of individual capitalists. The modern state, no matter what its form, is essentially a capitalist machine — the state of the capitalists, the ideal personification of the total national capital. The more it proceeds to the taking over of productive forces, the more does it actually become the national capitalist, the more citizens does it exploit. The workers remain wage-workers — proletarians. The capitalist relation is not done away with. It is, rather, brought to a head. But, brought to a head, it topples over. State-ownership of the productive forces is not the solution of the conflict.
(07-29-2020, 01:33 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ](07-29-2020, 04:17 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: [ -> ](07-29-2020, 01:22 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]Eh? The vast majority of Democratic voters, even of Democratic activists, are basically nonideological, like the overwhelming majority of Americans.
Well, let's make this easy. For POTUS, the choice is between a Mad Man and a Zombie. As for the 2 parties. They're both Neoliberal/Neocon. The US population has been gaslit to no end. The result, a step, step down towards the next dark age. Until then, let's enjoy our bread and circuses. [cheap junk food], mass/digital media. I'll go for Biden for a better chance for bread. Like, it's the new national motto: "It's all about the Benjamins"
When in Rome, do as the Romans do. In America, do what Americans do. That means you join a tribe like Futbah teams and sort out what kind of junk food you prefer. After all, even though America hates to admit this reality, Trump is the personification of the US.
PS.
Marxism, like anything human concept has to account for the fact that some humans are sociopaths. This reality is why a lots of zealous ideologies warp into nightmares. History is littered with this stuff.
Trump's not a mad man. He's to stoic, to cunning and to calculated to be a mad man. So, you go ahead and vote for the zombie and get used to the idea of fighting for a loaf of bread or paying twice as much for a loaf that can't be manufactured as much or get to your grocery store until its disinfected and cleansed or sold until its disinfected and cleansed and so on. Dude, the guy has 83 million followers on twitter that the dude who owns Facebook bans and doesn't worry about losing as customers. You better wake up and stop thinking like a Democrat and start thinking like an American who knows they're dealing with a crisis right vs sitting in the bleachers watching one right now. Do what Rani did if you can't accept voting for a Republican, vote Libertarian instead of voting for a zombie and find yourself being stuck with a two bit liberal candidate who doesn't deserve to be president that the country doesn't recognize as being legit.
Quote:Trump's not a mad man. He's to stoic, to cunning and to calculated to be a mad man. So, you go ahead and vote for the zombie and get used to the idea of fighting for a loaf of bread or paying twice as much for a loaf that can't be manufactured as much or get to your grocery store until its disinfected and cleansed or sold until its disinfected and cleansed and so on. Dude, the guy has 83 million followers on twitter that the dude who owns Facebook bans and doesn't worry about losing as customers. You better wake up and stop thinking like a Democrat and start thinking like an American who knows they're dealing with a crisis right vs sitting in the bleachers watching one right now. Do what Rani did if you can't accept voting for a Republican, vote Libertarian instead of voting for a zombie and find yourself being stuck with a two bit liberal candidate who doesn't deserve to be president that the country doesn't recognize as being legit.
(07-25-2020, 04:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]Correction. The Republicans went after the Southern middle class of the new South which is mainly non union. Racism is still popular on the Democratic side.
(07-30-2020, 08:33 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]I generally work with a system that puts turnings, ages, civilizations and behavioral psychology together. Of these, ages and civilizations are fairly common partitions in the academic study of history. This site is generally centered on S&H turning theory, so I usually don’t have problems with people taking this seriously. Behavioral psychology isn’t as popular as it once was, but generally if you talk about hunter gatherer behavior or the behavior of other hunter packs people follow along without too much of a quibble. If you just quote the biblical line about behold the land of milk and honey, slay the men, enslave the women and children, that is all you need to remind people of what mankind evolved to be.
Quote:My major possibly new thought in combining these perspectives is if you cross a border in turnings, ages or civilizations, that which you thought you learned by examining reality is not to be trusted. This mostly manifests in that which you learned in the Industrial Age is not to be absolutely trusted in the Information Age until the pattern observed has been seen to reproduce in the Information Age.
Quote:For example awakenings in the Industrial Age generally took the form of religious revivals. In the Information Age, the one example we have was much more to protest politically. I expect the next awakening to more closely resemble the 1960s than the older religious awakenings.
Quote:Now once in a while I wind up debating a Marxist or a fundamentalist who believes in the absolute Truth of everything in the writings of Marx or the Bible. These are remarkably similar mindsets. What I have found is that I am never as good with the other guy’s preferred Book as the other guy. I did my Saturday classes with the Catholic nuns, was a regular with the Christian Fellowship at Northeastern, took philosophy courses that covered Marx as well as a Russian history course. I'm no slouch, but not a match for someone who has made one of these Books the core of his world view. The debater keeps pulling everything back into his Book which he believes in with absolute certainty.
Quote:On the other hand I see the Bible as a historical document which shows how one culture evolved and changed over many years. You can see how that conflicts with someone who believes that it is a unified book with no conflicts or corrections, but deletes in his mind the phrases which cause contradictions. As the book goes from an eye for an eye to turning the other cheek, you can see the problem. The Jews of the Bible are evolving and transforming their culture into the Christian view.
Quote:And Marxism? A pretty good understanding of the division of wealth problem for the time of its writing. A pretty bad solution to the problem. They have not and I believe can not put the solution into practice. Every time one starts to walk down that path, you wind up in the valley full of milk and honey, killing the men, and enslaving the women and children. It is damn hard not to wind up in that valley. We have spent ages in that valley before slowly learning to climb out.
Quote:In the recent 3T, it was the red and blue values that were debated. Always before the newer values came to overwhelm the old when the crisis heart arrives. With both the virus and the Black Lives protest favoring the blue values, history is seeming to repeat.
Quote:Marxism was last an almost pertinent value set in the 1930s, and is not a modern contender.
Quote:While Marx may have been good in predicting automation and computers, he did not predict the Information Age lack of crisis war triggers and thus revolutions. Just not there. Stop pretending it is.
(07-29-2020, 01:33 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ](07-29-2020, 04:17 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: [ -> ]Trump's not a mad man. He's to stoic, to cunning and to calculated to be a mad man. So, you go ahead and vote for the zombie and get used to the idea of fighting for a loaf of bread or paying twice as much for a loaf that can't be manufactured as much or get to your grocery store until its disinfected and cleansed or sold until its disinfected and cleansed and so on. Dude, the guy has 83 million followers on twitter that the dude who owns Facebook bans and doesn't worry about losing as customers. You better wake up and stop thinking like a Democrat and start thinking like an American who knows they're dealing with a crisis right vs sitting in the bleachers watching one right now. Do what Rani did if you can't accept voting for a Republican, vote Libertarian instead of voting for a zombie and find yourself being stuck with a two bit liberal candidate who doesn't deserve to be president that the country doesn't recognize as being legit.(07-29-2020, 01:22 AM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ](07-29-2020, 12:32 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ](07-28-2020, 11:35 PM)Einzige Wrote: [ -> ]<snip>We figured that out a while ago. The Democratic party can't win without a relatively cheap army Marxist believers and followers doing the bulk of the work and scaring people into agreeing and voting for them. I'm sorry but the Democratic party is a regime and it has always functioned like a regime but it's time is coming to end.
Eh? The vast majority of Democratic voters, even of Democratic activists, are basically nonideological, like the overwhelming majority of Americans.
Well, let's make this easy. For POTUS, the choice is between a Mad Man and a Zombie. As for the 2 parties. They're both Neoliberal/Neocon. The US population has been gaslit to no end. The result, a step, step down towards the next dark age. Until then, let's enjoy our bread and circuses. [cheap junk food], mass/digital media. I'll go for Biden for a better chance for bread. Like, it's the new national motto: "It's all about the bejamins"
When in Rome, do as the Romans do. In America, do what Americans do. That means you join a tribe like Futbah teams and sort out what kind of junk food you prefer. After all, even though America hates to admit this reality, Trump is the personification of the US.
PS.
Marxism, like anything human concept has to account for the fact that some humans are sociopaths. This reality is why a lots of zealous ideologies warp into nightmares. History is littered with this stuff.
(07-29-2020, 03:11 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ](07-29-2020, 01:33 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]Trump's not a mad man.
A questionable assumption. Very questionable. Well see what the general opinion is after 98 more days.
(07-30-2020, 06:18 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: [ -> ]Here's the deal. 40 years of Republican tinkle down economics is all wet. Doing the same thing over and over again is a definition of insanity. Remember when Reagan said , "are you better off now than 4 years ago? I have a newer update. "Are you better off now than you were 40 years ago? I answer in the negative.
What is the definition of "American" ? Anyone that's a citizen is an American to me. Regardless of socioeconomic class, color, creed, etc. It's none of my business if someone is homosexual, trans, different color, liberal , conservative, etc. I have too many other problems to fuss over stuff like that.
I'm thinking like a Democrat because for one thing, the utter lack of a public healthcare system left the US wide open to what's going on right now wrt Corona virus. That is why the US is a banana republic. The US is right up there with Latin America with chaos. When I was a kid, and the US had a public healthcare system, I remember getting in line for shots at school, which were provided by the county health department. This can't happen with coordination at the national level. The economy sucked in the 70's , but the safety net and other public services were working well. Now, everything's shit, shit, nothing works, all is corrupt, because of legal bribery sanctioned by Citizen's United. The before Republican policy and after Republican policy leaves no doubt. I'm done, done with Republicans. They have failed, utterly. I have nothing else to say. Fuck Republicans and the horse they rode in on.
You said "there is a crises".. You got that right. The evil axis of Neoliberalism/Neoconservatism is the author of this mess. Republicans are all in on that axis. The Democrats, especially the younger ones, not so much. Like AOC nailed. "It's all about the Benjamins". That ought to be our national motto, man.
(07-30-2020, 06:35 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ](07-30-2020, 06:18 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: [ -> ]Here's the deal. 40 years of Republican tinkle down economics is all wet. Doing the same thing over and over again is a definition of insanity. Remember when Reagan said , "are you better off now than 4 years ago? I have a newer update. "Are you better off now than you were 40 years ago? I answer in the negative.
What is the definition of "American" ? Anyone that's a citizen is an American to me. Regardless of socioeconomic class, color, creed, etc. It's none of my business if someone is homosexual, trans, different color, liberal , conservative, etc. I have too many other problems to fuss over stuff like that.
I'm thinking like a Democrat because for one thing, the utter lack of a public healthcare system left the US wide open to what's going on right now wrt Corona virus. That is why the US is a banana republic. The US is right up there with Latin America with chaos. When I was a kid, and the US had a public healthcare system, I remember getting in line for shots at school, which were provided by the county health department. This can't happen with coordination at the national level. The economy sucked in the 70's , but the safety net and other public services were working well. Now, everything's shit, shit, nothing works, all is corrupt, because of legal bribery sanctioned by Citizen's United. The before Republican policy and after Republican policy leaves no doubt. I'm done, done with Republicans. They have failed, utterly. I have nothing else to say. Fuck Republicans and the horse they rode in on.
You said "there is a crises".. You got that right. The evil axis of Neoliberalism/Neoconservatism is the author of this mess. Republicans are all in on that axis. The Democrats, especially the younger ones, not so much. Like AOC nailed. "It's all about the Benjamins". That ought to be our national motto, man.
Hit it on the nose; thanks dude.
I'd post Won't Get Fooled Again again, but I just posted it!
(07-30-2020, 06:18 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: [ -> ]1. He's a mad man , just look at his tweetstorms.I know that's already happening and its only going to get worse with a zombie President, the Democrats stalling recovery and waiting for COVID19 to go away. You're right, the densely populated blues states were completely unprepared to face a deadly pandemic. I don't judge Trump by his tweets and I hardly pay any attention to his tweets these days. If you view Neo Liberalism/ Neo Conservatism as the axis of evil today then why would you vote for the politician/zombie who has gotten rich by being in bed/ double dealing with both of them. I remember getting shots back in school too. I remember getting my polio and swine flue shots at school. In today's American way of thinking, does it matter where we get our kids their shots today. Today, our kids get their shots outside of school vs in school like the old days. We might see that happen again with COVID19 since it's new and all. I think the polio vaccinations ended with our group. I suppose we could thank science and FDR for pretty much ending that particular disease over the coarse of a few generation. I'm not invested in China, the European Union, the globalist economy or the United Nations. I'm pretty much invested in the American economy or American private sector. I thought Omar said something about "It's all about the Benjamin's". She's right, It's all about the Benjamin's to her, her supporters, to me, to everyone on the American right and most on the American left these days.
2. Stoic? Really.
"Synonyms: Adjective Antonyms: Adjective
Here's the opposite of stoic. Russian Ambassador Lavrov.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Lavrov
There, that shows folks what I think of "Russia,Russia, Russia" stuff. There's a lot of bipartisan gas lighting going on here. I choose to ignore it because I don't give a flying fuck what Russia is doing. Of course they interfere in our stuff, just like we interfere in there stuff. That's normal interstate competition.
So feel free to do a compare and contrast of Lavrov vs. Pompeo.
Fighting for loaves of bread. Guess what? That's already happening.
PS.
The stuff going on is nothing new. I've been there before.
Like, I got the Hong Kong Flu. Covid is way worse than that. Same song, different verse. I grew up with this stuff, man ,,, in Oklahoma.
Fighting for bread. That's going on right now. It's obvious the Republicans offer nothing, except find some non existent job.
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/17/837141457...s-hit-hard
Here's the deal. 40 years of Republican tinkle down economics is all wet. Doing the same thing over and over again is a definition of insanity. Remember when Reagan said , "are you better off now than 4 years ago? I have a newer update. "Are you better off now than you were 40 years ago? I answer in the negative.
What is the definition of "American" ? Anyone that's a citizen is an American to me. Regardless of socioeconomic class, color, creed, etc. It's none of my business if someone is homosexual, trans, different color, liberal , conservative, etc. I have too many other problems to fuss over stuff like that.
I'm thinking like a Democrat because for one thing, the utter lack of a public healthcare system left the US wide open to what's going on right now wrt Corona virus. That is why the US is a banana republic. The US is right up there with Latin America with chaos. When I was a kid, and the US had a public healthcare system, I remember getting in line for shots at school, which were provided by the county health department. This can't happen with coordination at the national level. The economy sucked in the 70's , but the safety net and other public services were working well. Now, everything's shit, shit, nothing works, all is corrupt, because of legal bribery sanctioned by Citizen's United. The before Republican policy and after Republican policy leaves no doubt. I'm done, done with Republicans. They have failed, utterly. I have nothing else to say. Fuck Republicans and the horse they rode in on.
You said "there is a crises".. You got that right. The evil axis of Neoliberalism/Neoconservatism is the author of this mess. Republicans are all in on that axis. The Democrats, especially the younger ones, not so much. Like AOC nailed. "It's all about the Benjamins". That ought to be our national motto, man.
(07-29-2020, 01:19 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]The Nazis excoriated modern art and music as degenerate -- breaking from conventional molds easy for the Common Man to accept. Of course, art that devolves to popular taste at its lowest level, convention with some unimaginative use of symbols, is Kitsch, "art" intended to soothe and charm an audience that prefers to do little thinking when it encounters images.The Nazi's burned some junk art but mainly kept the best and most valuable for themselves so to speak.
Modern art, then even Impressionist art (eighty years ago people had yet to recognize Impressionist painting as the second-greatest era of painting, second only to the Renaissance, at least as is shown in bidding wars for art pieces up for sale), intends to jar people out of their complacency about the 'real' world in which they live. Abstraction is the reality behind nature, and expressionism conveys unsettling ideas. The movie starlet that a studio presents as a virgin is all too often a harlot in real life. Military glory has pain and dismemberment as the reality behind it. Decadence lies behind the alleged grandeur. Jazz recognizes that the highly-refined classical music is not the only expression of life, and atonal music suggests uncomfortable chaos. This is all inconsistent with the over-simplified world of the fascists (including Nazis and the KKK).
Under a totalitarian regime, thought is to become simple -- because life is glorification of official ideals and repudiation of anything that gets in the way. (It is paradoxical, but although Lenin fostered modern art as an expression of political as well as technological progress, Stalin's socialist realism also became an oversimplification of aesthetic expressions of his ideology, so 'modern' art and music had to go into hiatus under Stalin in favore of hackneyed expressions of the official ideology of Stalinism).
For the Nazis art was either comforting conventionality easily marketed to people who little think of art (again, Kitsch), classical expressions that suggested continuity from various stages of German history that the Nazis couldn't bring themselves to loathe, overt propaganda... or trouble. The German Nation and of course Volk were to be honored and never brought to question. Military glory was an objective in its own right, and of course the Fuehrer himself and his inner circle were to be seen as unqualified heroes. Many of the creators and promoters of modern culture were Jews, so that was good enough cause to despise it. Modern art was, of course, trouble.
(07-30-2020, 09:34 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ](07-30-2020, 06:18 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: [ -> ]1. He's a mad man , just look at his tweetstorms.I know that's already happening and its only going to get worse with a zombie President, the Democrats stalling recovery and waiting for COVID19 to go away. You're right, the densely populated blues states were completely unprepared to face a deadly pandemic. I don't judge Trump by his tweets and I hardly pay any attention to his tweets these days. If you view Neo Liberalism/ Neo Conservatism as the axis of evil today then why would you vote for the politician/zombie who has gotten rich by being in bed/ double dealing with both of them. I remember getting shots back in school too. I remember getting my polio and swine flue shots at school. In today's American way of thinking, does it matter where we get our kids their shots today. Today, our kids get their shots outside of school vs in school like the old days. We might see that happen again with COVID19 since it's new and all. I think the polio vaccinations ended with our group. I suppose we could thank science and FDR for pretty much ending that particular disease over the coarse of a few generation. I'm not invested in China, the European Union, the globalist economy or the United Nations. I'm pretty much invested in the American economy or American private sector. I thought Omar said something about "It's all about the Benjamin's". She's right, It's all about the Benjamin's to her, her supporters, to me, to everyone on the American right and most on the American left these days.
2. Stoic? Really.
"Synonyms: Adjective Antonyms: Adjective
Here's the opposite of stoic. Russian Ambassador Lavrov.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Lavrov
There, that shows folks what I think of "Russia,Russia, Russia" stuff. There's a lot of bipartisan gas lighting going on here. I choose to ignore it because I don't give a flying fuck what Russia is doing. Of course they interfere in our stuff, just like we interfere in there stuff. That's normal interstate competition.
So feel free to do a compare and contrast of Lavrov vs. Pompeo.
Fighting for loaves of bread. Guess what? That's already happening.
PS.
The stuff going on is nothing new. I've been there before.
Like, I got the Hong Kong Flu. Covid is way worse than that. Same song, different verse. I grew up with this stuff, man ,,, in Oklahoma.
Fighting for bread. That's going on right now. It's obvious the Republicans offer nothing, except find some non existent job.
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/17/837141457...s-hit-hard
Here's the deal. 40 years of Republican tinkle down economics is all wet. Doing the same thing over and over again is a definition of insanity. Remember when Reagan said , "are you better off now than 4 years ago? I have a newer update. "Are you better off now than you were 40 years ago? I answer in the negative.
What is the definition of "American" ? Anyone that's a citizen is an American to me. Regardless of socioeconomic class, color, creed, etc. It's none of my business if someone is homosexual, trans, different color, liberal , conservative, etc. I have too many other problems to fuss over stuff like that.
I'm thinking like a Democrat because for one thing, the utter lack of a public healthcare system left the US wide open to what's going on right now wrt Corona virus. That is why the US is a banana republic. The US is right up there with Latin America with chaos. When I was a kid, and the US had a public healthcare system, I remember getting in line for shots at school, which were provided by the county health department. This can't happen with coordination at the national level. The economy sucked in the 70's , but the safety net and other public services were working well. Now, everything's shit, shit, nothing works, all is corrupt, because of legal bribery sanctioned by Citizen's United. The before Republican policy and after Republican policy leaves no doubt. I'm done, done with Republicans. They have failed, utterly. I have nothing else to say. Fuck Republicans and the horse they rode in on.
You said "there is a crises".. You got that right. The evil axis of Neoliberalism/Neoconservatism is the author of this mess. Republicans are all in on that axis. The Democrats, especially the younger ones, not so much. Like AOC nailed. "It's all about the Benjamins". That ought to be our national motto, man.
(07-30-2020, 08:04 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]The Democrats are riding a Marxist lead grass roots movement of sorts associated the inner city. Who actually runs the inner city, who are their enemy and what's going on in those areas today with their enemy at bay? Like I said, you better wise up because times are getting more serious.(07-25-2020, 04:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ]Correction. The Republicans went after the Southern middle class of the new South which is mainly non union. Racism is still popular on the Democratic side.
Correction to the correction. The current position has the Democrats riding the Black Lives Matter position on violent racist policing while the Republicans are resisting their efforts. While the Democratic position could be attributed to trying to pick up votes in an obviously popular movement, so could the Republican position with a their racist position.
At any rate, trying to reverse the definition of racism is a one extremist show.
(07-29-2020, 11:48 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [ -> ](07-29-2020, 09:19 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]To both of you:
1. Einzige -- orthodox Marxism-Leninism is dead. It has no viable derivative in the United States. Even fascism of the neo-Nazi and KKK types (the two are merging) has more mass support in America. Those are sick people, the leaders of fascist cliques typically sociopaths and the followers hard to find unless as duplicates. Government ownership of productive capacity is even becoming irrelevant as much of the value created in America is intellectual property, the result not so much of material creation as of imagination and staging.
But KKK and Nazi fascism are nearly dead. Trump-style fascism is relevant to the extent that Trump has taken fascistic themes (hurt national pride, fear of pollution by 'alien' culture, economic distress, dread of change that leaves many behind, and a mythologized history) along with support from rapacious elites who want to take everything away from the rest of Humanity -- including its freedom.
2. Classic X'er: the Marxist threat exists largely in your mind. You really ought to go out more and listen to what people say. The best arguments against Donald Trump are now from conservatives who recognize his threat to the political traditions that prevent the political thuggery that has destroyed democracies. Donald Trump really is a horrible person, a man with neither heroic personality nor a moral compass.
I'm going to agree with you and say, the Marxist threat is not a threat to me personally or the American right because the entire American right believes in might makes right. Bob is right, the Democratic party can't go head to head with the America right. Dude, the American right got rid of the British, crushed the Confederacy and the KKK, crushed Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, Toppled the Soviet Union and so forth. Donald Trump ain't that bad of a person. He's stubborn, he's gruff, he's not the perfect human being, he's not a saint and doesn't pretend to be one and above all, he doesn't give a shit about what the liberal elites think about of him. Dude, the liberal Washington elite and the liberal media elite and the liberal global elite are all fucking with America right now and America is going to hand them their asses back to them on a silver plate and leave the chips fall. The way I see it, the Democratic party is pretty boxed in at this point due to its significant loss of believers.