Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory

He is just making it that much harder for the Democrats to ever regain the hardhat vote.

I don't think it will be that hard for Democrats to disavow Obama on this issue. The only potentially complicated part of it to base the disavowal on national security grounds rather than on transgender grounds.

(01-18-2017, 10:45 AM)Anthony Wrote: [ -> ]He is just making it that much harder for the Democrats to ever regain the hardhat vote.

I approve of Obama's pardon of Manning immensely. I was among the many who asked him to do it.

He had already served far longer in prison than anyone convicted of similar crimes. His (her) 35-year sentence was absurd. He was a political prisoner.

He revealed the information on the mistakes made by Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld in Iraq and their deadly consequences. He apologized for putting any US agent in danger, and none were harmed.

His imprisonment was merely political. He was jailed for his protest against the Bush cabal.

If anyone deserves to be in jail, it is the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld cabal.

Hardhats need to vote their interests, and not their prejudices. Democrats should not pander to these. Voters in Appalachia and the Rust Belt are digging their own graves by voting Republican. Shame on them. They are responsible for their own misery.

(01-18-2017, 05:15 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-18-2017, 10:45 AM)Anthony Wrote: [ -> ]He is just making it that much harder for the Democrats to ever regain the hardhat vote.

I approve of Obama's pardon of Manning immensely. I was among the many who asked him to do it.

He had already served far longer in prison than anyone convicted of similar crimes. His (her) 35-year sentence was absurd. He was a political prisoner.

Not true.  The Walker brothers were sentenced to multiple life sentences for revealing similar amounts of information, and both died in prison.  That's what should have happened to Manning.

(01-18-2017, 09:01 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-18-2017, 05:15 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-18-2017, 10:45 AM)Anthony Wrote: [ -> ]He is just making it that much harder for the Democrats to ever regain the hardhat vote.

I approve of Obama's pardon of Manning immensely. I was among the many who asked him to do it.

He had already served far longer in prison than anyone convicted of similar crimes. His (her) 35-year sentence was absurd. He was a political prisoner.

Not true.  The Walker brothers were sentenced to multiple life sentences for revealing similar amounts of information, and both died in prison.  That's what should have happened to Manning.

Such lies and deceit as you peddle are typical of those on your side. No, Manning was NOT a spy, and he did not pass classified military info to an enemy state. Can't you read anything? He was a whistle-blower. What you support is the government's dishonest killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent people for no reason.

(01-19-2017, 02:32 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-18-2017, 09:01 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-18-2017, 05:15 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-18-2017, 10:45 AM)Anthony Wrote: [ -> ]He is just making it that much harder for the Democrats to ever regain the hardhat vote.

I approve of Obama's pardon of Manning immensely. I was among the many who asked him to do it.

He had already served far longer in prison than anyone convicted of similar crimes. His (her) 35-year sentence was absurd. He was a political prisoner.

Not true.  The Walker brothers were sentenced to multiple life sentences for revealing similar amounts of information, and both died in prison.  That's what should have happened to Manning.

Such lies and deceit as you peddle are typical of those on your side. No, Manning was NOT a spy, and he did not pass classified military info to an enemy state. Can't you read anything? He was a whistle-blower. What you support is the government's dishonest killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent people for no reason.

Characterizing Manning as a "whistle blower" is what's really "lies and deceit".  The guy indiscriminately dumped large volumes of classified military and diplomatic information to the public, which means he passed it to all enemy states simultaneously.

An actual whistleblower would have talked about what was there without actually releasing the classified information.

This is all part of a larger narrative - and that is the left's refusal to echo Arthur Vandenberg and his "Politics stops at the water's edge" mantra from World War II.

When FDR handed Joe Stalin half of Europe on a silver platter at Yalta, don't you think that the Republicans wanted to drag FDR out of that wheelchair and ground-and-pound him? Yet they did the right thing and kept their mouths shut - and were rewarded in 1946 with what is still the most definitive midterm landslide victory in American history.

See also Clement Attlee, whose Labour Party came to power in the aftermath of that same war - and brought single payer health care to Britain.

(01-19-2017, 09:15 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2017, 02:32 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-18-2017, 09:01 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-18-2017, 05:15 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-18-2017, 10:45 AM)Anthony Wrote: [ -> ]He is just making it that much harder for the Democrats to ever regain the hardhat vote.

I approve of Obama's pardon of Manning immensely. I was among the many who asked him to do it.

He had already served far longer in prison than anyone convicted of similar crimes. His (her) 35-year sentence was absurd. He was a political prisoner.

Not true.  The Walker brothers were sentenced to multiple life sentences for revealing similar amounts of information, and both died in prison.  That's what should have happened to Manning.

Such lies and deceit as you peddle are typical of those on your side. No, Manning was NOT a spy, and he did not pass classified military info to an enemy state. Can't you read anything? He was a whistle-blower. What you support is the government's dishonest killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent people for no reason.

Characterizing Manning as a "whistle blower" is what's really "lies and deceit".  The guy indiscriminately dumped large volumes of classified military and diplomatic information to the public, which means he passed it to all enemy states simultaneously.

An actual whistleblower would have talked about what was there without actually releasing the classified information.

You can't make a case that the government did wrong without showing the evidence that it did so. "Talking about it" is not blowing the whistle.

He mostly revealed information that corroborated what we already knew anyway. The Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld cabal covered up the murder and treachery they were carrying out.

(01-19-2017, 10:30 AM)Anthony Wrote: [ -> ]This is all part of a larger narrative - and that is the left's refusal to echo Arthur Vandenberg and his "Politics stops at the water's edge" mantra from World War II.

When FDR handed Joe Stalin half of Europe on a silver platter at Yalta, don't you think that the Republicans wanted to drag FDR out of that wheelchair and ground-and-pound him?  Yet they did the right thing and kept their mouths shut - and were rewarded in 1946 with what is still the most definitive midterm landslide victory in American history.

See also Clement Attlee, whose Labour Party came to power in the aftermath of that same war - and brought single payer health care to Britain.

Many Republicans and Democrats opposed US entry into World War Two. It was almost as big a protest movement as the Vietnam protests. Millions protested Bush's unjustified invasion of Iraq. My country right or wrong doesn't cut it. If this is a free country, Anthony, the people have a right to speak out and know the truth about their country's wars, and to oppose them.

FDR had no choice but to do what he did at Yalta. The Russians were our allies then, and had conquered all those territories already. The people would have protested if FDR had started another war with Russia then. Huge wars like that can't go on for decades.