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(09-20-2017, 11:32 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]I confess. I am little more than my intellect.

I should hope so since you don't have much intellect from what I can tell.

Quote:I can think of few things woreth dying for and even fewer for which to kill.

If you have nothing worth dying for or killing for you also lack anything worth living for. That is a pitiable state.

Quote:But you know how it is. If you want to know who has uncertainty about his sexuality, then look for the fellow who brags about being a 'stud'.

Non sequiter.

Quote:If you want to know who has the least-valid achievements (especially including finding meaning in life) then look for the person who brags about having his $#!+ together. If you want to know who is mishandling his money, then look for the schmuck who wastes money on status symbols.  I prefer living like a food-processing worker and making a middle-class income to making a middle-class living and trying to live like an aristocrat. With the former one can amass some savings and do some really-great things; with the latter one achieves a debt-driven banality.

1. I made no claims as to having my shit together. I merely made a claim as to being able to see through your bullshit quickly. I've seen your type before. While they exist in all the states I've lived they were most numerous in Southern Commiefornia and in Florida. I think it is the lack of bitter winters that thin the herd.
2. I don't have an ostentatious lifestyle either unless you count my pimpmobile from the 1970s which I intentionally bought and tricked out for the express purpose of tricking it out. Car customization is a documented hobby for some people--I'm one.
3. What is and is not a waste of money is in the eye of the beholder. Generally speaking paying for the cable tee-vee is an expense I could live without, however, it is a requirement to keep my mother sedate. Were she not living with us we probably wouldn't have it since no one besides her is interested in a dead medium.

Quote:I have good cause to see my own failings. I have long despised myself for failing to live up to my potential. It turns out that people have mishandled me badly. Oh yes, I have a drug and alcohol problem -- that is, being so harshly judgmental about addiction.

Translation: I'm a loser because other people, it is never my fault.

That is such a poor excuse I wouldn't accept it from my 7 year old niece much less a grown ass man. Though it does make me wonder, what is it like to be so pathetic that a prepubescent child outstrips you in personal responsibility.

Quote:If I had known about Asperger's

You don't have Asperger's because that isn't a recognized condition. In short you don't have it because no one does. I also highly doubt you have any spectrum disorder at all.

Quote: when I was young I would have had a very different and much more-rewarding life. If I could get away with Asperger's (and the one good thing about America is that it does reasonably well for people with handicaps) I would probably have a good job, a wife (probably with Asperger's) and children. Adopted, of course. They probably wouldn't look much like us... but at least they would not have the Curse.  People like me are typical fathers of children who end up institutionalized for autism.

You aught to be glad America isn't Kinserland. Were it, you would have likely been sterilized. As for obtaining a wife, well you would need resources to get one of those, which means you'd have to take responsiblity for yourself and actually produce something of value. One universal fact about women is that in the main they look for resources out of a man. Why? Because they want those resources for their eggs which with luck one day become children and children require resources, a lot of them.

Quote:If it takes a welfare state to aid children out of poverty, then so be it.

Except in no welfrare state has welfare alleviated poverty. Rather it merely maintains the poor at a consistently miserable level. We now have three generations, maybe four, which have consistantly lived on welfare and guess what, they're still impoverished.

Quote: I see a cynical solution in poverty in people using welfare to get a sofa, a TV, beer, ice cream, and chips and getting grotesquely obese... and ending up with a coronary. If I must rely upon disability I will make sure to have a dog to walk, food good for me, and something other than the TV. Like Internet access and the desire to seek something really good.

It is really difficult to buy a sofa, tee-vee or beer with most forms of welfare. SNAP can be used on ice cream and chips because those are considered to be food by some. Even then, a large part of the problem with people using programs like SNAP for junk food is a utter lack in culinary training. When you don't know how to cook you have to eat shit from a box. As for me, the only shit in a box that I eat are the MREs in the Hurricane Kit. Though we also eat those when we have to turn them over, the self-life is only like 5 or 6 years.

With proper planning, visiting the local vegetable stands/farmers market and other such places one can eat healthful food on SNAP. Myself I prefer to not have to use that program, but I certainly won't turn down an opportunity to buy groceries on someone's card for cash. But then again, I view the welfare state as mostly there for me to scam as much as possible rather than any ridiculous notion that it is there to "help people". If the goal was to lift people out of poverty then the government would take expressly pro-business and pro-domestic production policies to ensure everyone who could work had at least a minimum level job.

Also I pity your dog. It can't be easy for him to be the brains of the operation.
Kinser -- you have not been in the therapy sessions that I have been in.

Asperger syndrome (AS), also known as Asperger's, is a developmental disorder characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction and nonverbal communication, along with restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests.[1] As a milder autism spectrum disorder (ASD), it differs from other ASDs by relatively normal language and intelligence.[4] Although not required for diagnosis, physical clumsiness and unusual use of language are common.[5][6] Signs usually begin before two years old and typically last for a person's entire life.[1]

The exact cause of Asperger's is unknown.[1] While it is probably partly inherited, the underlying genetics have not been determined conclusively.[5][7] Environmental factors are also believed to play a role.[1] Brain imaging has not identified a common underlying problem.[5] The diagnosis of Asperger's was removed in the 2013 fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), and people with these symptoms are now included within the autism spectrum disorder along with autism and pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified.[1][8] It remains within the tenth edition of the International Classification of Diseases (ICD-10) as of 2015.[4]
[/url]
There is no single treatment, and the effectiveness of particular interventions is supported by only limited data.
[5] Treatment is aimed at improving poor communication skills, obsessive or repetitive routines, and physical clumsiness.[2] Interventions may include social skills training, cognitive behavioral therapy, physical therapy, speech therapy, parent training, and medications for associated problems such as mood or anxiety.[2] Most children improve as they grow up, but social and communication difficulties usually persist.[9] Some researchers and people on the autism spectrum have advocated a shift in attitudes toward the view that autism spectrum disorder is a difference, rather than a disease that must be treated or cured.[10][11]

In 2015, Asperger's was estimated to affect 37.2 million people globally.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome#cite_note-GBD2015Pre-3][3] The syndrome is named after the Austrian pediatrician Hans Asperger who, in 1944, described children in his practice who lacked nonverbal communication, had limited understanding of others' feelings, and were physically clumsy.[12] The modern conception of Asperger syndrome came into existence in 1981 and went through a period of popularization.[13][14][15] It became a standardized diagnosis in the early 1990s.[16] Many questions and controversies remain about aspects of the disorder.[9] There is doubt about whether it is distinct from high-functioning autism (HFA).[17] Partly because of this, the percentage of people affected is not firmly established.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome
(09-19-2017, 10:19 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-19-2017, 09:44 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-19-2017, 09:33 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]Unlike with you, I think in his case it is the latter since he rarely if ever makes new arguments.

I think you've got that backwards.  Most people have to encounter new ideas more than once if they are counter to a lifetime of propaganda exposure - especially when the propaganda specifically includes simplistic ways to reject those ideas.  In addition, I believe, he has a vested interest in the welfare system.  Get him a job that takes him off welfare for a few years, and he might suddenly become open minded.

I would not doubt that PBR has a vested interest in maintaining the welfare state, however, I have seen little evidence of his supposed intellgence.

As for countering a lifetime of exposure to propaganda, I did it.  Of course having been a Marxist-Leninist and a propagandist myself it was far easier for me to detect what is propaganda.

I'm not at all claiming he's smarter than you - just that he's smarter than Bob.
(09-20-2017, 11:32 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]If I had known about Asperger's when I was young I would have had a very different and much more-rewarding life. If I could get away with Asperger's (and the one good thing about America is that it does reasonably well for people with handicaps) I would probably have a good job, a wife (probably with Asperger's) and children. Adopted, of course. They probably wouldn't look much like us... but at least they would not have the Curse.  People like me are typical fathers of children who end up institutionalized for autism.

There are a lot fewer female aspies than male aspies, so you'd be unlikely to have a wife who was also an aspie.

Also, Asperger's is a gift, not a curse.  I'm thrilled to have two of three kids who are likely aspies.  Aspies interact fine with other aspies; it's the neurotypicals that are the problem.

(09-20-2017, 12:04 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-19-2017, 09:44 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-19-2017, 09:33 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]Unlike with you, I think in his case it is the latter since he rarely if ever makes new arguments.

I think you've got that backwards.  Most people have to encounter new ideas more than once if they are counter to a lifetime of propaganda exposure - especially when the propaganda specifically includes simplistic ways to reject those ideas.  In addition, I believe, he has a vested interest in the welfare system.  Get him a job that takes him off welfare for a few years, and he might suddenly become open minded.

The last paying job that I had was as a substitute school teacher -- so I know how rough poverty can be on students.

If you are talking about a low-paying job in retail, as in a convenience store -- such would really radicalize me.

We've discussed this before.  I'm talking about the $80k/year programming job that you could probably get.  Asperger's is a big asset in programmers.
(09-20-2017, 08:58 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]You don't have Asperger's because that isn't a recognized condition.  In short you don't have it because no one does.  I also highly doubt you have any spectrum disorder at all. 

It was removed from DSM V, but a lot of people disagree with that change.

However, if what you're arguing is that it's not a disability, I agree.  It's a difference, but not a disability.

Convincing him that it is was a disability was just part of the mechanism to trap him onto the welfare plantation.  Perhaps you've already realized that.
(09-21-2017, 12:44 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not at all claiming he's smarter than you - just that he's smarter than Bob.

From what I have seen and heard, perceived intelligence is not a good predictor of which partisan faction one belongs to, but high intelligence lets one cling harder to whichever perspective. It can be a handicap of sorts if one is looking for the correct world view. The self perceived bright guy can be so certain he seem to himself right to be stubborn. How he looks from outside is a different story.

On the other had, perceiving one's self as being intelligent often compels one to force the other guy to seem unintelligent. Thus, the articulate guy with sometimes good arguments often finds himself in the gutter.

Perceived intelligence is not always a great indicator in politics and world views.
(09-21-2017, 12:52 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-20-2017, 11:32 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]If I had known about Asperger's when I was young I would have had a very different and much more-rewarding life. If I could get away with Asperger's (and the one good thing about America is that it does reasonably well for people with handicaps) I would probably have a good job, a wife (probably with Asperger's) and children. Adopted, of course. They probably wouldn't look much like us... but at least they would not have the Curse.  People like me are typical fathers of children who end up institutionalized for autism.

There are a lot fewer female aspies than male aspies, so you'd be unlikely to have a wife who was also an aspie.

Also, Asperger's is a gift, not a curse.  I'm thrilled to have two of three kids who are likely aspies.  Aspies interact fine with other aspies; it's the neurotypicals that are the problem.

There are good things, like being able to listen to classical music and appreciate counterpoint because I cannot stand the sound volume at a rock concert.  But struggling to get and hold jobs because one muffs job interviews and losing jobs because one responds to little calamities the wrong way isn't so great. In an economic order that shows no mercy such is awful.

But if I knew I would be protected with ADA when I needed it. I would have not made some of the career mistakes that I made. I might have gotten a teaching degree. Paraplegics, quadriplegics, the deaf, and the blind know that they have a proble. Aspergers when I was a young adult had no clue. Back then the people getting attention were those who ended up before the criminal justice system.

Quote:
(09-20-2017, 12:04 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-19-2017, 09:44 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-19-2017, 09:33 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]Unlike with you, I think in his case it is the latter since he rarely if ever makes new arguments.

I think you've got that backwards.  Most people have to encounter new ideas more than once if they are counter to a lifetime of propaganda exposure - especially when the propaganda specifically includes simplistic ways to reject those ideas.  In addition, I believe, he has a vested interest in the welfare system.  Get him a job that takes him off welfare for a few years, and he might suddenly become open minded.

The last paying job that I had was as a substitute school teacher -- so I know how rough poverty can be on students.

If you are talking about a low-paying job in retail, as in a convenience store -- such would really radicalize me.

We've discussed this before.  I'm talking about the $80k/year programming job that you could probably get.  Asperger's is a big asset in programmers.

That would have been good. Back in my young-adult times the programming jobs had fierce competition awaiting anyone applying.
(09-21-2017, 11:16 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-21-2017, 01:04 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-20-2017, 08:58 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]You don't have Asperger's because that isn't a recognized condition.  In short you don't have it because no one does.  I also highly doubt you have any spectrum disorder at all. 

It was removed from DSM V, but a lot of people disagree with that change.

However, if what you're arguing is that it's not a disability, I agree.  It's a difference, but not a disability.

Convincing him that it is was a disability was just part of the mechanism to trap him onto the welfare plantation.  Perhaps you've already realized that.

It is a disability. It interferes with executive function.


..and social life. and having fun. and getting and holding jobs.
(09-21-2017, 03:25 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-21-2017, 11:16 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-21-2017, 01:04 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-20-2017, 08:58 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]You don't have Asperger's because that isn't a recognized condition.  In short you don't have it because no one does.  I also highly doubt you have any spectrum disorder at all. 

It was removed from DSM V, but a lot of people disagree with that change.

However, if what you're arguing is that it's not a disability, I agree.  It's a difference, but not a disability.

Convincing him that it is was a disability was just part of the mechanism to trap him onto the welfare plantation.  Perhaps you've already realized that.

It is a disability. It interferes with executive function.

No it doesn't.  You're confusing it with ADD, perhaps.

Quote:..and social life. and having fun. and getting and holding jobs.

Yes, if you try to do those things with NTs.
(09-20-2017, 11:28 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]Kinser -- you have not been in the therapy sessions that I have been in.

Asperger syndrome (AS), also known as Asperger's, is a developmental disorder characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction and nonverbal communication, along with restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests.[1] As a milder autism spectrum disorder (ASD), it differs from other ASDs by relatively normal language and intelligence.[4] Although not required for diagnosis, physical clumsiness and unusual use of language are common.[5][6] Signs usually begin before two years old and typically last for a person's entire life.[1]

The exact cause of Asperger's is unknown.[1] While it is probably partly inherited, the underlying genetics have not been determined conclusively.[5][7] Environmental factors are also believed to play a role.[1] Brain imaging has not identified a common underlying problem.[5] The diagnosis of Asperger's was removed in the 2013 fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), and people with these symptoms are now included within the autism spectrum disorder along with autism and pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified.[1][8] It remains within the tenth edition of the International Classification of Diseases (ICD-10) as of 2015.[4]
[/url]
There is no single treatment, and the effectiveness of particular interventions is supported by only limited data.
[5] Treatment is aimed at improving poor communication skills, obsessive or repetitive routines, and physical clumsiness.[2] Interventions may include social skills training, cognitive behavioral therapy, physical therapy, speech therapy, parent training, and medications for associated problems such as mood or anxiety.[2] Most children improve as they grow up, but social and communication difficulties usually persist.[9] Some researchers and people on the autism spectrum have advocated a shift in attitudes toward the view that autism spectrum disorder is a difference, rather than a disease that must be treated or cured.[10][11]

In 2015, Asperger's was estimated to affect 37.2 million people globally.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome#cite_note-GBD2015Pre-3][3] The syndrome is named after the Austrian pediatrician Hans Asperger who, in 1944, described children in his practice who lacked nonverbal communication, had limited understanding of others' feelings, and were physically clumsy.[12] The modern conception of Asperger syndrome came into existence in 1981 and went through a period of popularization.[13][14][15] It became a standardized diagnosis in the early 1990s.[16] Many questions and controversies remain about aspects of the disorder.[9] There is doubt about whether it is distinct from high-functioning autism (HFA).[17] Partly because of this, the percentage of people affected is not firmly established.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

I don't need to see a head shrinker to read the DSM-V.  The diagnosis was removed in 2013 meaning not only do you not have it, but no one does.  You may or may not have a spectrum disorder but unless you actually have a diagnosis from an actual psychologist I have no reason to believe you actually have a spectrum disorder.

I have noted that this "condition" became your current excuse for being a pathetic waste of oxygen and food after your last parent died and you could no longer reasonably lay blame at them for your existence.  Given that history, my point stands that you are merely seeking an excuse to be a victim or some sort of nonsense like that.  The only thing I can see that you are a victim of is arrested development--but that is fairly common in Boomers to start with.

Myself, I've never been much interested in being a victim.  But then again I also decided at some point (around age 10 or so) to take responsibility for my own failings, like a grown ass man.  Rather than allowing the hard times of my upbringing beat me down I used them to make me hard.
(09-21-2017, 01:04 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-20-2017, 08:58 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]You don't have Asperger's because that isn't a recognized condition.  In short you don't have it because no one does.  I also highly doubt you have any spectrum disorder at all. 

It was removed from DSM V, but a lot of people disagree with that change.

However, if what you're arguing is that it's not a disability, I agree.  It's a difference, but not a disability.

Convincing him that it is was a disability was just part of the mechanism to trap him onto the welfare plantation.  Perhaps you've already realized that.

Lots of people disagree with the change.  Doesn't mean that they are right.  I'm sure that lots of people would disagree with my own determination that ADD (a condition I was diognosed with, though thankfully not drugged for--Grandad wouldn't have it thank <insert favorite deity here>).

Autism Spectrum is not a disability.  I've actively sought out persons on the spectrum as employees for some tasks as I've stated in the past.  Perhaps PBR wouldn't like  being a donut finisher but my two finishers who are on the spectrum seem to do alright.

PBR didn't have to be convinced.  He has a long history of seeking out being disabled, or the victim, and other such things.  Honestly I think he has arrested development. 

As for welfare, yeah it is a trap.  You get on it, and get a couple kids or something you really can't attempt to work for someone else, or even yourself legally without losing your benefits.  In many cases the loss of the benefits could equate to about the same as someone losing a 35K/year job.

Granted I get by on 30K/year but the boyfriend makes far more and we intentionally keep our expenses low, so low as to have moved into my Grandmother's house as it is paid off (and she had willed it to me anyway).
(09-21-2017, 12:44 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-19-2017, 10:19 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-19-2017, 09:44 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-19-2017, 09:33 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]Unlike with you, I think in his case it is the latter since he rarely if ever makes new arguments.

I think you've got that backwards.  Most people have to encounter new ideas more than once if they are counter to a lifetime of propaganda exposure - especially when the propaganda specifically includes simplistic ways to reject those ideas.  In addition, I believe, he has a vested interest in the welfare system.  Get him a job that takes him off welfare for a few years, and he might suddenly become open minded.

I would not doubt that PBR has a vested interest in maintaining the welfare state, however, I have seen little evidence of his supposed intellgence.

As for countering a lifetime of exposure to propaganda, I did it.  Of course having been a Marxist-Leninist and a propagandist myself it was far easier for me to detect what is propaganda.

I'm not at all claiming he's smarter than you - just that he's smarter than Bob.

I wouldn't make the claim that PBR is smarter than Bob.  Of course that might be a difference of perception or experience.  Bob makes new arguments on occasion--his problem is that he's values locked and in a time warp which is rather typical of Boomers in general.
(09-22-2017, 03:35 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-21-2017, 12:44 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-19-2017, 10:19 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-19-2017, 09:44 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-19-2017, 09:33 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]Unlike with you, I think in his case it is the latter since he rarely if ever makes new arguments.

I think you've got that backwards.  Most people have to encounter new ideas more than once if they are counter to a lifetime of propaganda exposure - especially when the propaganda specifically includes simplistic ways to reject those ideas.  In addition, I believe, he has a vested interest in the welfare system.  Get him a job that takes him off welfare for a few years, and he might suddenly become open minded.

I would not doubt that PBR has a vested interest in maintaining the welfare state, however, I have seen little evidence of his supposed intellgence.

As for countering a lifetime of exposure to propaganda, I did it.  Of course having been a Marxist-Leninist and a propagandist myself it was far easier for me to detect what is propaganda.

I'm not at all claiming he's smarter than you - just that he's smarter than Bob.

I wouldn't make the claim that PBR is smarter than Bob.  Of course that might be a difference of perception or experience.  Bob makes new arguments on occasion--his problem is that he's values locked and in a time warp which is rather typical of Boomers in general.

The old generation gap of the awakening got hit by the southern strategy and turned into the red - blue gap.  I don't know how many time's I've admitted leaning blue.  My view of the divide is from a different perspective, from one who has seen the transition.  Younger generations just haven't seen what it takes to make a culture really change.  They are allergic to the real effort it takes, which has been in large part the reason for a lack of a true regeneracy.  I don't really expect young folk to see it short of a true regeneracy occurring.  That will take more than just a timer expiring.  You'll have to give up on your cynicism and care about People.

You can grumble about patterns, but that isn't the same as breaking them.  I'm not thrilled by the divide, and will grumble about it too, but causing the pattern to shift by misconceiving the real issues won't happen.  We've got a values clash.  As Eric will tell you, those with one set of values have to overwhelm the other.  Maybe it will happen because Trump is a wonderful guy.  I doubt it.  He's got well document problems.  Maybe we should watch the inevitable power of demographics and polls, as PBR does.  They are ever so inevitable and correct except on days like the first Tuesday of November when they can end up useless.  Or, you can wait and watch the real world rather than make too silly a values based prediction.  You can commit to a faction and have to decide whether to jump ship if it fails.

Meanwhile you get a few people who haven't encountered a problem thinking themselves expert on the problem and trying to lecture someone who is much more familiar.  To me, it is a values problem, a case of some with economic values and some with health and quality of life standards.  I don't expect much to change yet.  I expect that those with economic values will keep them, will cling tightly to the Reagan meme of not spending on Americans.  I expect they will be opposed by those who have seen medical costs rise with improved care and twisted politics, who do wish to share risks and costs.  This is just a repeat of the old argument more personalized.  There is values lock there all around.  

I the long term, the rising expenses, the sharing of risks and costs, will make too much sense.  You generally present good ideas on the health care thread.  Choose something.  There will be ultimately too few fully employed to choose employee or employer based methods.  The selfish healthy and wealthy will drag their feet though, as long as their values lock lets them.  If you have economic values and a good situation, you want to avoid the risk and cost sharing ultimate solutions.

Meanwhile, we are having too much fun being the world's policeman that we can't keep the super military while Americans maintain a decent life style.  There are choices made by deciding to follow Reagan, Trump and the unraveling pattern.  The choices remain whether you or I want them to.  If spending on the armed forces rather than Americans is going to go away, it will not be by pretending a pattern has not been set and followed.

Again, I don't see anyone associating intelligence with which world view one clings to.  On this forum at least, there are smart and less smart people who associate with any values, most of whom are locked into their perspective.  People ought to listen more.  There are good ideas worth absorbing, and if one must engage in endless futile bickering, you might as well try to argue against what they actually say.  I feel safe in saying that if you need to throw away a whole branch of science, you are likely wrong.  Betting everything on a stalemated branch of 'science' such as economics is not a big win either.  In general, I would prefer scientific values over political.  One should tie back to the real world often.  Someone who argues politics and religion all the time, not science, is suspect.

But sensing one's own values lock remains hard.
(09-22-2017, 03:30 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-21-2017, 01:04 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-20-2017, 08:58 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]You don't have Asperger's because that isn't a recognized condition.  In short you don't have it because no one does.  I also highly doubt you have any spectrum disorder at all. 

It was removed from DSM V, but a lot of people disagree with that change.

However, if what you're arguing is that it's not a disability, I agree.  It's a difference, but not a disability.

Convincing him that it is was a disability was just part of the mechanism to trap him onto the welfare plantation.  Perhaps you've already realized that.

Lots of people disagree with the change.  Doesn't mean that they are right.  I'm sure that lots of people would disagree with my own determination that ADD (a condition I was diognosed with, though thankfully not drugged for--Grandad wouldn't have it thank <insert favorite deity here>).

The only chemical I use to deal with the anxiety is alcohol. I am an oddity at the clinic in which I got therapy (most adults treated there there area alcoholics and addicts) in which the therapist actually suggested that I have a drink on occasion. One drink (a beer or a glass of wine) -- enough to dissolve anxiety, but not enough to dissolve my conscience or affect my shaky balance. 

Quote:Autism Spectrum is not a disability.  I've actively sought out persons on the spectrum as employees for some tasks as I've stated in the past.  Perhaps PBR wouldn't like  being a donut finisher but my two finishers who are on the spectrum seem to do alright.

All right (alright is substandard). It's a matter of perception, and I can think of two attributes of you to which you admit.


Quote:PBR didn't have to be convinced.  He has a long history of seeking out being disabled, or the victim, and other such things.  Honestly I think he has arrested development.
 
Frankly, I would rather have been told that nothing is wrong with me, and that I might as well take a job as a convenience-store clerk.


Quote:As for welfare, yeah it is a trap.  You get on it, and get a couple kids or something you really can't attempt to work for someone else, or even yourself legally without losing your benefits.  In many cases the loss of the benefits could equate to about the same as someone losing a 35K/year job.

Tell me about it. I know of a teenager who got pregnant with two darling little cash cows at age 14... her sister, who has much more going for her would have taken custody if given the chance, but you can be sure that the idiot screen is turned on all the time, and never to PBS.

Quote:Granted I get by on 30K/year but the boyfriend makes far more and we intentionally keep our expenses low, so low as to have moved into my Grandmother's house as it is paid off (and she had willed it to me anyway).

I have never been one to waste money. I envy only two things about the rich -- foreign travel (Italy, Austria, and Switzerland would be at the top of the list) and economic security, something that the economic elites must deny to all but themselves.  Jewelry, expensive cars, bloated housing, gambling jaunts -- not for me. Just let me see a little live theater on occasion... and of course listen to great classical music. Like Shostakovich string quartets and Mozart operas. It's not snobbery -- this is simply good.

The cover of the office chair at which I input stuff on the computer and read responses or watch videos has started to wear. So what did I do? Buy a new chair? No. I went to a thrift shop and bought a $4 blanket to cover it. That saves $70.
(09-22-2017, 07:31 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]The only chemical I use to deal with the anxiety is alcohol.

Good for you, what do you want a cookie.

Quote: I am an oddity at the clinic in which I got therapy (most adults treated there there area alcoholics and addicts) in which the therapist actually suggested that I have a drink on occasion. One drink (a beer or a glass of wine) -- enough to dissolve anxiety, but not enough to dissolve my conscience or affect my shaky balance. 

So what you're saying is you got your diagnosis from some addiction councilor and not from someone who specializes with autism spectrum disorder. You know, that is actually worse than reading symptoms on WebMD and assuming you have a condition.

Quote:All right (alright is substandard).

No one cares.

Quote: It's a matter of perception, and I can think of two attributes of you to which you admit.

Perception matters, you've chosen to perceive yourself as a victim and thus you become one. You're not prey, you're a predator, but instead of using strength or intellect or even cunning to achieve your ends you use pathetic-ness. You are a vampire and your blood is the altruism of others. Indeed I'd say that if you were a Rick and Morty character you'd be Jerry. I recommend watching season 3 episode 5.

http://www.toonova.net/rick-and-morty-se...-episode-5


Quote:Frankly, I would rather have been told that nothing is wrong with me, and that I might as well take a job as a convenience-store clerk.

That is a bald faced lie. I've told you many times there is nothing wrong with you apart from a few minor character flaws. Last I checked Dunning-Kruger effect, laziness, and an inability to accept personal responsibility were not listed as pathologies.


Quote:Tell me about it. I know of a teenager who got pregnant with two darling little cash cows at age 14... her sister, who has much more going for her would have taken custody if given the chance, but you can be sure that the idiot screen is turned on all the time, and never to PBS.

Not exactly my point there. The way welfare is structured is toxic. If the idea was to help people get on their feet then the goal should be to slowly get them off dependence from the state entirely by gradually withdrawing the aid. As it stands now if you get welfare and take a job and make more than X you're cut off entirely. Most people on the welfare are neither particularly bright nor have particularly good prospects so the economic incentive is to stay on the welfare and live at the expense of others, like a parasite.

I think the main reason this is the case is that the welfare state was not created with helping citizens get out of poverty in mind (that is just how it was sold) but rather to create reliable voting blocs for the party that always seems to want to expand welfare.

Quote:I have never been one to waste money. I envy only two things about the rich -- foreign travel

Foreign travel is vastly overrated. Having been to Europe and to Asia a little I have to say that I prefer staying in America. Getting on that slave ship was the best thing that happened to my ancestors. Shit man, I may be poor for Americans but I'm pretty goddamn rich compared to some African. American blacks even those on welfare are the richest blacks on the planet.

Quote:and economic security, something that the economic elites must deny to all but themselves.

The "fabulously wealthy" don't actually have economic security. Asset bubbles and stock market crashes happen and once there was a saying of families going from shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves in three generations. If you actually knew half as much about economics that you think you know then you'd know that no one has economic security.

How many rappers and sports people have come from nothing, made it rich and died broke? Quite a lot.

Quote:  Jewelry, expensive cars, bloated housing, gambling jaunts -- not for me. Just let me see a little live theater on occasion... and of course listen to great classical music. Like Shostakovich string quartets and Mozart operas. It's not snobbery -- this is simply good.

I'm not much one for jewelry either, unless you count my pocket watch (I hate wrist watches, and I have a tendency to stop them if they are quartz-and I think it is a matter of electromagnetism and possibly blood pressure before Eric comes in with some woo-woo). Define an expensive car. My car wasn't cheep to trick out even if I bought it originally for a low price. I would have no interest going to a Farari dealership and buying one stock though. The goal is to pimp out the car, not what the car is.

You can keep the Opera, I never much liked it. The classical music can be had on CD, and as or live theater, most towns have a community theater. No it isn't Broadway but then again Broadway is vastly over rated, I know because I've been there too.

Quote:The cover of the office chair at which I input stuff on the computer and read responses or watch videos has started to wear. So what did I do? Buy a new chair? No. I went to a thrift shop and bought a $4 blanket to cover it. That saves $70.

I have one better. My chair at work originally was going to go to the dumpster. The boyfriend liberated it when the school upgraded their office furnishings. You'd be surprised some of the things people have thrown away, my home office desk was also someone else's trash. Word of advice though if you plan on dumpster diving, go to the higher end white neighborhoods. They have better trash.
(09-23-2017, 01:02 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-22-2017, 07:31 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]I am an oddity at the clinic in which I got therapy (most adults treated there there area alcoholics and addicts) in which the therapist actually suggested that I have a drink on occasion. One drink (a beer or a glass of wine) -- enough to dissolve anxiety, but not enough to dissolve my conscience or affect my shaky balance. 

So what you're saying is you got your diagnosis from some addiction councilor and not from someone who specializes with autism spectrum disorder.  You know, that is actually worse than reading symptoms on WebMD and assuming you have a condition.

So what you're saying is you got your diagnosis from some addiction councilor and not from someone who specializes with autism spectrum disorder.  You know, that is actually worse than reading symptoms on WebMD and assuming you have a condition.

That counselor has plenty of children to counsel, as I have seen from the stuff in his office, many for The Spectrum. Most of his adult clients are apparently druggies, boozers, and people with "anger-control issues". I'm the opposite of the druggies and boozers, as I have little empathy for them.



Quote:
Quote:It's a matter of perception, and I can think of two attributes of you to which you admit.

Perception matters, you've chosen to perceive yourself as a victim and thus you become one.  You're not prey, you're a predator, but instead of using strength or intellect or even cunning to achieve your ends you use pathetic-ness.  You are a vampire and your blood is the altruism of others.  Indeed I'd say that if you were a Rick and Morty character you'd be Jerry.    I recommend watching season 3 episode 5.

http://www.toonova.net/rick-and-morty-se...-episode-5

I'd rather not be a victim. My parents mishandled me because I didn't create any problems. The K-12 educational system saw me as a model student, and again I didn't create any problems. I was the sort to run away from fights, and I played by the rules. Be a conformist, but don't be perfect at it? I was a satisfying compromise.

But had I known I would have done many things differently.


Quote:
Quote:Frankly, I would rather have been told that nothing is wrong with me, and that I might as well take a job as a convenience-store clerk.

That is a bald faced lie.  I've told you many times there is nothing wrong with you apart from a few minor character flaws.  Last I checked Dunning-Kruger effect, laziness, and an inability to accept personal responsibility were not listed as pathologies.


It's not a character flaw.



Quote:
Quote:Tell me about it. I know of a teenager who got pregnant with two darling little cash cows at age 14... her sister, who has much more going for her would have taken custody if given the chance, but you can be sure that the idiot screen is turned on all the time, and never to PBS.  

Not exactly my point there.  The way welfare is structured is toxic.  If the idea was to help people get on their feet then the goal should be to slowly get them off dependence from the state entirely by gradually withdrawing the aid.  As it stands now if you get welfare and take a job and make more than X you're cut off entirely.  Most people on the welfare are neither particularly bright nor have particularly good prospects so the economic incentive is to stay on the welfare and live at the expense of others, like a parasite.

No social program is perfect. But leave everything to the operation of the 'free market' (meaning that the masters of the market are free to use it as they wish) and life will be miserable for most people. As in the 1920s.

Quote:I think the main reason this is the case is that the welfare state was not created with helping citizens get out of poverty in mind (that is just how it was sold) but rather to create reliable voting blocs for the party that always seems to want to expand welfare.

Do we value life enough to keep people from selling themselves into serfdom contracts, or do we not?

Everyone can go through a time of needing aid. I'd like to see welfare recipients having to make efforts to improve their lives.


Quote:
Quote:I have never been one to waste money. I envy only two things about the rich -- foreign travel

Foreign travel is vastly overrated.  Having been to Europe and to Asia a little I have to say that I prefer staying in America.  Getting on that slave ship was the best thing that happened to my ancestors.  Shit man, I may be poor for Americans but I'm pretty goddamn rich compared to some African.  American blacks even those on welfare are the richest blacks on the planet.

In the military?

I know what I would seek and what I would ignore. In Amsterdam one can see the Rijksmuseum with lots of Old Master paintings and one can also see whores advertising their wares, so to speak. 

Most military bases are awful places.


Quote:
Quote:and economic security, something that the economic elites must deny to all but themselves.

The "fabulously wealthy" don't actually have economic security.  Asset bubbles and stock market crashes happen and once there was a saying of families going from shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves in three generations.  If you actually knew half as much about economics that you think you know then you'd know that no one has economic security.

How many rappers and sports people have come from nothing, made it rich and died broke?  Quite a lot.

Stupidity + wealth or wealth + unconstrained appetites usually mean that one  ends up without the wealth.


Quote:
Quote:  Jewelry, expensive cars, bloated housing, gambling jaunts -- not for me. Just let me see a little live theater on occasion... and of course listen to great classical music. Like Shostakovich string quartets and Mozart operas. It's not snobbery -- this is simply good.

I'm not much one for jewelry either, unless you count my pocket watch (I hate wrist watches, and I have a tendency to stop them if they are quartz-and I think it is a matter of electromagnetism and possibly blood pressure before Eric comes in with some woo-woo).  Define an expensive car.  My car wasn't cheep to trick out even if I bought it originally for a low price.  I would have no interest going to a Farari dealership and buying one stock though.  The goal is to pimp out the car, not what the car is.

If I had unlimited funds and needed to buy a car, it would probably be a Honda Accord -- comfortable, low maintenance, stingy with gas, safe for its size, and quite possibly at my age the last car that I would ever need if I live as long as my parents did. Never having had a sports car, I wouldn't know what to do with one. Vehicle speed isn't my way.


Quote:You can keep the Opera, I never much liked it.  The classical music can be had on CD, and as or live theater, most towns have a community theater.  No it isn't Broadway but then again Broadway is vastly over rated, I know because I've been there too.

Your taste. There is a community theater, and while it is not as refined as what one would expect on Broadway, it is satisfying as long as one accepts its limitations. For over-refined perfection there are movies.

Quote:
Quote:The cover of the office chair at which I input stuff on the computer and read responses or watch videos has started to wear. So what did I do? Buy a new chair? No. I went to a thrift shop and bought a $4 blanket to cover it. That saves $70.

I have one better.  My chair at work originally was going to go to the dumpster.  The boyfriend liberated it when the school upgraded their office furnishings.  You'd be surprised some of the things people have thrown away, my home office desk was also someone else's trash.  Word of advice though if you plan on dumpster diving, go to the higher end white neighborhoods.  They have better trash.

To be a really-good bargain-hunter takes some imagination.
(09-23-2017, 11:37 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:
Quote:It's a matter of perception, and I can think of two attributes of you to which you admit.

Perception matters, you've chosen to perceive yourself as a victim and thus you become one.  You're not prey, you're a predator, but instead of using strength or intellect or even cunning to achieve your ends you use pathetic-ness.  You are a vampire and your blood is the altruism of others.  Indeed I'd say that if you were a Rick and Morty character you'd be Jerry.    I recommend watching season 3 episode 5.

http://www.toonova.net/rick-and-morty-se...-episode-5

I'd rather not be a victim. My parents mishandled me because I didn't create any problems. The K-12 educational system saw me as a model student, and again I didn't create any problems. I was the sort to run away from fights, and I played by the rules. Be a conformist, but don't be perfect at it? I was a satisfying compromise.

But had I known I would have done many things differently.

What do you think your parents should have done differently?  What would you have done differently?

If you were a model student, did you go to college?  What degree did you get?
Kinser

I’m not into striped posts.  I really shouldn’t break into other’s people’s striped exchanges.  Pbrower is doing fine his own way.

But you have called his councilor unqualified, himself a liar-predator, and maligned the motives of politicians.  To a great degree, you have done so without real evidence.  For the most part, you are running off stereotypes that come from your world view.  Rather than listen to the person who is at the center of the discussion, you assert your stereotypes as fact.  Your stereotypes become true because you assert them to be?

Well, I can’t tell you not to say bad things about politician motivations.  I suspect part of it was to attract voters who would benefit from welfare.  I certainly won’t claim welfare as implemented today is ideal.  Some need a short period of help to get back in the game.  Some are fully and permanently disabled.  They can’t and won’t ever be in the game again.  With the latter sort of exception, welfare shouldn’t be a predator centered permanent way of life.  There is a definite difference between welfare providing a safety net, and a dole allowing lazy predators to live off others.  If I could make it so, promote the former, end the latter, I would.

But it seems wrong for you to feed your vile stereotype to one who lives otherwise.  You just can not and will not listen.  You will instead just keep feeding your stereotype to somebody you think must live it.  It must be so.  Your prejudice says so.

Yes.  He has had a different life experience than you.  Yes.  He sees how the world works differently from you.  No, disagreeing with you does not make him stupid, or you.  He has lived in a different world and seeks different solutions to different problems.

We now return to our regularly scheduled stripes.
(09-23-2017, 12:26 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]Kinser

I’m not into striped posts.  I really shouldn’t break into other’s people’s striped exchanges.  Pbrower is doing fine his own way.

But you have called his councilor unqualified, himself a liar-predator, and maligned the motives of politicians.  To a great degree, you have done so without real evidence.  For the most part, you are running off stereotypes that come from your world view.  Rather than listen to the person who is at the center of the discussion, you assert your stereotypes as fact.  Your stereotypes become true because you assert them to be?

Well, I can’t tell you not to say bad things about politician motivations.  I suspect part of it was to attract voters who would benefit from welfare.  I certainly won’t claim welfare as implemented today is ideal.  Some need a short period of help to get back in the game.  Some are fully and permanently disabled.  They can’t and won’t ever be in the game again.  With the latter sort of exception, welfare shouldn’t be a predator centered permanent way of life.  There is a definite difference between welfare providing a safety net, and a dole allowing lazy predators to live off others.  If I could make it so, promote the former, end the latter, I would.

But it seems wrong for you to feed your vile stereotype to one who lives otherwise.  You just can not and will not listen.  You will instead just keep feeding your stereotype to somebody you think must live it.  It must be so.  Your prejudice says so.

Yes.  He has had a different life experience than you.  Yes.  He sees how the world works differently from you.  No, disagreeing with you does not make him stupid, or you.  He has lived in a different world and seeks different solutions to different problems.

We now return to our regularly scheduled stripes.
What's your opinion of PB? Who is PB? This may surprise you, I didn't form my opinion/view of PB. The Republicans didn't form them of PB or you or any other blue poster for that matter. PB formed my opinion of him and my feelings toward him. PB and I are different people who handle situations/things and approach things differently. You are pretty loose with your use/understanding/view of vile stereotype, world views and values to explain/define our differences and opinions of each other.
(09-23-2017, 12:26 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: [ -> ]Kinser

But you have called his councilor unqualified, himself a liar-predator, and maligned the motives of politicians.  To a great degree, you have done so without real evidence.  For the most part, you are running off stereotypes that come from your world view.  Rather than listen to the person who is at the center of the discussion, you assert your stereotypes as fact.  Your stereotypes become true because you assert them to be?

Don't assume that because that's your method of assessment, that Kinser is doing the same thing.  He does have data for his assessments, though he is also making some

Quote:But it seems wrong for you to feed your vile stereotype to one who lives otherwise.

You're projecting.
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