(10-05-2017, 04:56 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-05-2017, 02:17 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: Yet we are often tole that the balance we seek between us and others can also be found within ourselves. This should mean that we have the ability to create positive outcomes by redirecting our energy to suit our own well-being. There you have the malaise in a nutshell. Most of us are so busy suiting our own well-being that we could care less about the collective welfare of the society at large. "Give me convenience or give me death", as mentioned on one thread here a while back, seems to be the battle cry of the whole society across all living generations. And until something shakes out there, nothing much will change for the better.

Agreed.  That's it in a nutshell.

I'd like to propose that the spirit of the last crisis and awakening, of abandoning self to pay attention to the strident needs of the nation, is cyclical.  Some fraction of it could come back.  Some talk as if the self centered spirit of the unraveling should be permanent.  At the moment, that is the key question.

(10-05-2017, 02:17 PM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(10-04-2017, 12:24 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-04-2017, 10:38 AM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(10-04-2017, 10:27 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-02-2017, 05:52 PM)Bronsin Wrote: Just keep banging that gong. Maybe someday someone will hear it.

Donald Trump is the malignant tumor that will most likely be excised on January 20, 2021. That tumor is not the cancer, namely a plutocratic trend that began to root itself in America when Ronald Reagan became President.

Republicans so far seem good at ensuring that Democrats fail, and at entrenching themselves slowly with salami tactics.

One thing we have collectively become very good at is controlling our emotions while chasing our ambitions. While it can seem like an arduous task, our career ambitions individually have become top dog, especially since our emotional selves appear to be for the most part hidden. And, BTW, research has shown that Millennials are having less sex than did their parents and grandparents. Any connection?

Losing optimism in the American Dream. As America goes from being a democracy to being a Marcos-like kleptocracy, one can expect such. Politicians like Donald Trump, Paul Ryan, and Mitch McConnell (let alone such extreme outliers as Roy Moore) represent the antithesis of Millennial interests. I expect this generation to be just short of being as sympathetic to the irrationalism so much a part of American politics as the French equivalents of America's chilly Republican rationalists were to the Bourbon monarchy and its hangers-on. There might be no guillotine, though.

Sure, everyone dreams of going heavily in debt for education for a good job, only to find that unless one has the right college major that one will get something once relegated to high-school graduates or even dropouts, and that even if one gets a well-paying job one gets gouged for high rent in a tiny apartment. [/snark] If high rents are 'progress', then I (as a Boomer) can understand that some progress is not worth it.

Yet we are often tole that the balance we seek between us and others can also be found within ourselves. This should mean that we have the ability to create positive outcomes by redirecting our energy to suit our own well-being. There you have the malaise in a nutshell. Most of us are so busy suiting our own well-being that we could care less about the collective welfare of the society at large. "Give me convenience or give me death", as mentioned on one thread here a while back, seems to be the battle cry of the whole society across all living generations. And until something shakes out there, nothing much will change for the better.

(10-17-2017, 07:12 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Good point. I was wondering today how much convenience I am really willing to give up for the collective good.

(10-21-2017, 08:59 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-17-2017, 07:12 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Good point. I was wondering today how much convenience I am really willing to give up for the collective good.

... and that's it in a nutshell.  As a nation, we aren't ready to suffer even minor discomfort -- not yet anyway.  What will take us there and when are both open questions.  I'm still in the not-this-time camp.  We may have to suffer greatly to benefit greatly.  We're too old to suffer the worst of it, and will certainly not be around to witness the best either.  I do fear for those much younger.  They didn't make the mess, but they'll be the clean-up crew.

(10-02-2017, 07:11 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-02-2017, 05:52 PM)Bronsin Wrote:

(02-03-2017, 12:54 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: This is what Republicans do. They uphold corruption. They do everything wrong. They need to be stopped; period.

Just keep banging that gong. Maybe someday someone will hear it.

I'm dubious.  I often use the phrase, "He can convince those already convinced."  It seems the gong is pitched absolutely blue.  What will the red leaning hear?

Classic?  Anyone?

(10-21-2017, 04:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-21-2017, 08:59 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-17-2017, 07:12 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Good point. I was wondering today how much convenience I am really willing to give up for the collective good.

... and that's it in a nutshell.  As a nation, we aren't ready to suffer even minor discomfort -- not yet anyway.  What will take us there and when are both open questions.  I'm still in the not-this-time camp.  We may have to suffer greatly to benefit greatly.  We're too old to suffer the worst of it, and will certainly not be around to witness the best either.  I do fear for those much younger.  They didn't make the mess, but they'll be the clean-up crew.

We will be able to make great sacrifices when going along with a trend that economic elites have imposed upon us violates our core beliefs. Do you believe that America would have done an invasion on the scale of D-Day (the most lethal day in American history except for some in the Civil War) except that we found defeating the Nazi menace a compelling necessity?

We will make great collective sacrifices when the menace is individual evil for almost all people. If one sees  'our' economic elites as menaces to our freedom, prosperity, and personal dignity then even we American swill turn against those elites.

(10-21-2017, 04:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-02-2017, 07:11 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-02-2017, 05:52 PM)Bronsin Wrote:

(02-03-2017, 12:54 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: This is what Republicans do. They uphold corruption. They do everything wrong. They need to be stopped; period.

Just keep banging that gong. Maybe someday someone will hear it.

I'm dubious.  I often use the phrase, "He can convince those already convinced."  It seems the gong is pitched absolutely blue.  What will the red leaning hear?

Classic?  Anyone?

I heard a bunch a blue noise coming out of the mouth of a blue comedian playing the role of a person like Bill O'Reilly who seems to care about Puerto Rico as much as Americans who live within continental United States seem to care about it based on the way he's making fun of the situation.

Quote:If he really cared, he'd be more serious and come across as less childish and less funny and less interested in receiving laughs. It's hard to take a foolish blues person's view of anything very serious. It's true that Puerto Rico is not located within the continental US like the State of Florida and Texas and getting resources to them by air and sea is going to be harder for them than us, so to speak. Who is running Puerto Rico these days? Democrats or Republicans? You'd think a blue colony affiliated with blue America and all the blue American money that it has, would have all the resources ( big government institutions and systems and stock piles of necessities) in place that it would need to deal with a few nasty hurricanes during a hurricane season.

Yawn, same liberal shit about Trump, just a  different day.

(10-21-2017, 05:17 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Gallows humor is an old habit. Sometimes that is all we have. If someone wants to mock the incompetence of Donald Trump in dealing with the hurricane, then so be it. That goes with the territory known as the Presidency.

(10-21-2017, 05:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-21-2017, 04:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-21-2017, 08:59 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-17-2017, 07:12 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Good point. I was wondering today how much convenience I am really willing to give up for the collective good.

... and that's it in a nutshell.  As a nation, we aren't ready to suffer even minor discomfort -- not yet anyway.  What will take us there and when are both open questions.  I'm still in the not-this-time camp.  We may have to suffer greatly to benefit greatly.  We're too old to suffer the worst of it, and will certainly not be around to witness the best either.  I do fear for those much younger.  They didn't make the mess, but they'll be the clean-up crew.

We will be able to make great sacrifices when going along with a trend that economic elites have imposed upon us violates our core beliefs. Do you believe that America would have done an invasion on the scale of D-Day (the most lethal day in American history except for some in the Civil War) except that we found defeating the Nazi menace a compelling necessity?

We will make great collective sacrifices when the menace is individual evil for almost all people. If one sees  'our' economic elites as menaces to our freedom, prosperity, and personal dignity then even we American will turn against those elites.

Right now, you are a bigger menace than the elites you claim are the ones keeping you/us down. You're the menace because you're one that we can see. Eric is another menace that we can see as well.

(10-21-2017, 04:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-02-2017, 07:11 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-02-2017, 05:52 PM)Bronsin Wrote:

(02-03-2017, 12:54 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: This is what Republicans do. They uphold corruption. They do everything wrong. They need to be stopped; period.

Just keep banging that gong. Maybe someday someone will hear it.

I'm dubious.  I often use the phrase, "He can convince those already convinced."  It seems the gong is pitched absolutely blue.  What will the red leaning hear?

Classic?  Anyone?

I heard a bunch a blue noise coming out of the mouth of a blue comedian playing the role of a person like Bill O'Reilly who seems to care about Puerto Rico as much as Americans who live within continental United States seem to care about it based on the way he's making fun of the situation.

If he really cared, he'd be more serious and come across as less childish and less funny and less interested in receiving laughs. It's hard to take a foolish blues person's view of anything very serious. It's true that Puerto Rico is not located within the continental US like the State of Florida and Texas and getting resources to them by air and sea is going to be harder for them than us, so to speak. Who is running Puerto Rico these days? Democrats or Republicans? You'd think a blue colony affiliated with blue America and all the blue American money that it has, would have all the resources ( big government institutions and systems and stock piles of necessities) in place that it would need to deal with a few nasty hurricanes during a hurricane season.

(10-21-2017, 05:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-21-2017, 04:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-21-2017, 08:59 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-17-2017, 07:12 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Good point. I was wondering today how much convenience I am really willing to give up for the collective good.

... and that's it in a nutshell.  As a nation, we aren't ready to suffer even minor discomfort -- not yet anyway.  What will take us there and when are both open questions.  I'm still in the not-this-time camp.  We may have to suffer greatly to benefit greatly.  We're too old to suffer the worst of it, and will certainly not be around to witness the best either.  I do fear for those much younger.  They didn't make the mess, but they'll be the clean-up crew.

We will be able to make great sacrifices when going along with a trend that economic elites have imposed upon us violates our core beliefs. Do you believe that America would have done an invasion on the scale of D-Day (the most lethal day in American history except for some in the Civil War) except that we found defeating the Nazi menace a compelling necessity?

We will make great collective sacrifices when the menace is individual evil for almost all people. If one sees  'our' economic elites as menaces to our freedom, prosperity, and personal dignity then even we American swill turn against those elites.

Right now, you are a bigger menace than the elites you claim are the ones keeping you/us down. You're the menace because you're one that we can see. Eric is another menace that we can see as well.

(10-21-2017, 04:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... It's true that Puerto Rico is not located within the continental US like the State of Florida and Texas and getting resources to them by air and sea is going to be harder for them than us, so to speak. Who is running Puerto Rico these days? Democrats or Republicans? You'd think a blue colony affiliated with blue America and all the blue American money that it has, would have all the resources ( big government institutions and systems and stock piles of necessities) in place that it would need to deal with a few nasty hurricanes during a hurricane season.

Yawn, same liberal shit about Trump, just a  different day.

(10-22-2017, 10:39 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-21-2017, 04:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... It's true that Puerto Rico is not located within the continental US like the State of Florida and Texas and getting resources to them by air and sea is going to be harder for them than us, so to speak. Who is running Puerto Rico these days? Democrats or Republicans? You'd think a blue colony affiliated with blue America and all the blue American money that it has, would have all the resources ( big government institutions and systems and stock piles of necessities) in place that it would need to deal with a few nasty hurricanes during a hurricane season.

Yawn, same liberal (profanity redacted) about Trump, just a  different day.

You miss the point.  Yes, results matter, but so does effort.  Trump blew-off the entire Puerto Rico hurricane disaster as  not so important, then he dissed the Puerto Ricans for wanting everything handed to them (unlike the Texans and Floridians who got it without asking).

Trump is about as subtle as a Mack truck.  When he gets praised or dissed, it's pretty easy to see why.]

(10-22-2017, 12:46 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-22-2017, 10:39 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-21-2017, 04:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... It's true that Puerto Rico is not located within the continental US like the State of Florida and Texas and getting resources to them by air and sea is going to be harder for them than us, so to speak. Who is running Puerto Rico these days? Democrats or Republicans? You'd think a blue colony affiliated with blue America and all the blue American money that it has, would have all the resources ( big government institutions and systems and stock piles of necessities) in place that it would need to deal with a few nasty hurricanes during a hurricane season.

Yawn, same liberal shit about Trump, just a  different day.

You miss the point.  Yes, results matter, but so does effort.  Trump blew-off the entire Puerto Rico hurricane disaster as  not so important, then he dissed the Puerto Ricans for wanting everything handed to them (unlike the Texans and Floridians who got it without asking).

Trump is about as subtle as a Mack truck.  When he gets praised or dissed, it's pretty easy to see why.]

Indeed. If the President is decent enough he will even interrupt a political campaign to deal with an approaching hurricane, even with political leaders of the other Party. He won't seek praise while the his role in meeting the menace is over. To be sure, Americans generally take competence in meeting disasters for granted, so there isn't much political gain from dealing well with even an earthquake or tornado for which there is no warning. Obama well handled a monster tornado in Joplin, Missouri... and he still lost Missouri in 2012.

Donald Trump is an addict for praise. If he doesn't get it from objective third parties he will arrange for flunkies or give it to himself.

(10-22-2017, 04:03 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(10-21-2017, 04:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-02-2017, 07:11 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-02-2017, 05:52 PM)Bronsin Wrote:

(02-03-2017, 12:54 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: This is what Republicans do. They uphold corruption. They do everything wrong. They need to be stopped; period.

Just keep banging that gong. Maybe someday someone will hear it.

I'm dubious.  I often use the phrase, "He can convince those already convinced."  It seems the gong is pitched absolutely blue.  What will the red leaning hear?

Classic?  Anyone?

I heard a bunch a blue noise coming out of the mouth of a blue comedian playing the role of a person like Bill O'Reilly who seems to care about Puerto Rico as much as Americans who live within continental United States seem to care about it based on the way he's making fun of the situation.

If he really cared, he'd be more serious and come across as less childish and less funny and less interested in receiving laughs. It's hard to take a foolish blues person's view of anything very serious. It's true that Puerto Rico is not located within the continental US like the State of Florida and Texas and getting resources to them by air and sea is going to be harder for them than us, so to speak. Who is running Puerto Rico these days? Democrats or Republicans? You'd think a blue colony affiliated with blue America and all the blue American money that it has, would have all the resources ( big government institutions and systems and stock piles of necessities) in place that it would need to deal with a few nasty hurricanes during a hurricane season.

Unfortunately, the blues are no longer in charge of those resources; FEMA is not a blue agency now, nor is the military, and without those it's hard for citizens to mount flotillas of volunteers and charity to help those in need in PR. But blue and probably red people too are doing what they can anyway, while Trump tweets instead and does next to nothing, and gives himself a 10 for doing it.

Quote:President Donald Trump’s advisory commission on election integrity has integrity questions of its own — with some of its own members raising concerns about its openness.

This past week, two members fired off letters to commission staff complaining about a lack of information about the panel’s agenda and demanding answers about its activities. That comes as Democratic U.S. senators are requesting a government investigation of the commission for ignoring formal requests from Congress.

The criticism from the commissioners was remarkable because it came from insiders — the very people who are supposed to be privy to its internal discussions and plans.

In a letter sent Oct. 17, Maine Secretary of State Matthew Dunlap said it was clear he was not being made aware of information pertaining to the commission. He requested copies of all correspondence between commission members since Trump signed the executive order creating it in May.

“I am in a position where I feel compelled to inquire after the work of the commission upon which I am sworn to serve, and am yet completely uninformed as to its activities,” Dunlap wrote in his letter to Andrew Kossack, the commission’s executive director.

He said he had received no information about the commission’s research or activities since its last meeting, on Sept. 12. He also said he continued to receive media inquiries about commission developments “that I as a commissioner am blind to.”

A commissioner from Alabama, Jefferson County Probate Judge Alan L. King, said he sent a similar letter late last week. He said the only information he has received since the commission’s meeting more than a month ago was an email informing him of the death of a fellow commissioner, former Arkansas state lawmaker David Dunn.

“Here I am on this high-level government committee, and I don’t know when the next meetings are or how many meetings there will be,” he said in a telephone interview. “I am in the dark on what will happen from this point on, to tell you the truth.”

King and Dunlap are two of four Democrats on the 11-member commission.

Requests for comment sent to Kossack, the commission’s executive director, and the commission’s vice chairman, Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, were not returned.

J. Christian Adams, a commission member who was a Justice Department attorney under former President George W. Bush, said in an email that all commissioners were receiving the same information.

“Once upon a time election integrity was bipartisan,” Adams said in the email. “Apparently not all agree. That’s a shame.”

The commission has stirred controversy from the moment it was established last spring. Critics say Trump is using it to find support for his unsubstantiated claims of widespread voter fraud that cost him the popular vote during the 2016 election. Democrat Hillary Clinton received 2.8 million more votes nationwide than Trump.

While there have been isolated cases of voter fraud in the U.S., there is no evidence of it being a widespread problem, as Trump suggests.

Critics argue the commission is stacked with people who favor voting restrictions, rather than those who want to expand access, and that the commission has a predetermined agenda that will result in recommendations making it more difficult for people to register to vote, stay registered and cast ballots.

Its first significant action was to request a wide range of information about all registered voters in every state, including partial Social Security numbers, dates of birth, addresses and voting history. The commission scaled back its response after stinging criticism. A tally by Associated Press reporters nationwide shows that 15 states denied the request, raising questions about how useful the information will be.

In August, the AP filed a records request with the commission under the federal Freedom of Information Act. The law specifies that agencies — including presidential commissions — have 20 business days to respond or 10 calendar days if the request was filed on an expedited basis, as the AP’s was. To date, the AP has received no response from the commission despite multiple attempts to get one.

The commission’s secrecy prompted a lawsuit by the Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, which alleges the commission is violating federal open meetings and disclosure laws.

The group’s executive director, Kristen Clarke, said she was hard-pressed to think of another commission that had acted in such secrecy.

“We have found that, in every respect, this commission has been carrying out its activities in an almost covert fashion,” she said.

The lack of openness even applies to members of Congress.

Democratic senators have filed at least five separate requests for information with the commission since June, and a Sept. 12 follow-up letter noted that none of those had received a response.

“The Commission has not responded to a single letter from Senators with oversight jurisdiction over the Commission and continues to be rebuked for its questionable activities,” said the letter by Democratic Sens. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota and Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island.

Last week, a group of three Democratic senators wrote the Government Accountability Office seeking an investigation into the commission because of its lack responsiveness and transparency. The letter signed by Sens. Michael Bennet of Colorado, Cory Booker of New Jersey and Klobuchar cited a lack of transparency on the commission and concern that its conclusions would diminish confidence in the democratic process.

“It is incredible that they are not responding to any of this stuff, and that’s why it’s appropriate for GAO to take a look,” Bennet said in an interview.  

(10-23-2017, 01:44 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Possibly even worse. Yes, those tax cuts will probably go into elite indulgence to the exclusion of all else, and then as the glories of economic inequality fail to bring prosperity to anyone else while bloating the deficit, we will probably end up wit have some tax reform that imposes a federal sales tax to support sweetheart deals between the government and political cronies, wars for profit, maybe we will end up with a nasty little recession to be solved by cutting living standards even more while coming up with even more big tax cuts for the Master Classes.

The President has a commission examining the integrity of the 2016 election. After all, not enough people voted for the Most Magnificent Leader in American History (irony intended). Shouldn't people be voting as their employers want them to vote?

OK, enough of the venting.

Quote:President Donald Trump’s advisory commission on election integrity has integrity questions of its own — with some of its own members raising concerns about its openness.

This past week, two members fired off letters to commission staff complaining about a lack of information about the panel’s agenda and demanding answers about its activities. That comes as Democratic U.S. senators are requesting a government investigation of the commission for ignoring formal requests from Congress.

The criticism from the commissioners was remarkable because it came from insiders — the very people who are supposed to be privy to its internal discussions and plans.

In a letter sent Oct. 17, Maine Secretary of State Matthew Dunlap said it was clear he was not being made aware of information pertaining to the commission. He requested copies of all correspondence between commission members since Trump signed the executive order creating it in May.

“I am in a position where I feel compelled to inquire after the work of the commission upon which I am sworn to serve, and am yet completely uninformed as to its activities,” Dunlap wrote in his letter to Andrew Kossack, the commission’s executive director.

He said he had received no information about the commission’s research or activities since its last meeting, on Sept. 12. He also said he continued to receive media inquiries about commission developments “that I as a commissioner am blind to.”

A commissioner from Alabama, Jefferson County Probate Judge Alan L. King, said he sent a similar letter late last week. He said the only information he has received since the commission’s meeting more than a month ago was an email informing him of the death of a fellow commissioner, former Arkansas state lawmaker David Dunn.

“Here I am on this high-level government committee, and I don’t know when the next meetings are or how many meetings there will be,” he said in a telephone interview. “I am in the dark on what will happen from this point on, to tell you the truth.”

King and Dunlap are two of four Democrats on the 11-member commission.

Requests for comment sent to Kossack, the commission’s executive director, and the commission’s vice chairman, Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, were not returned.

J. Christian Adams, a commission member who was a Justice Department attorney under former President George W. Bush, said in an email that all commissioners were receiving the same information.

“Once upon a time election integrity was bipartisan,” Adams said in the email. “Apparently not all agree. That’s a shame.”

The commission has stirred controversy from the moment it was established last spring. Critics say Trump is using it to find support for his unsubstantiated claims of widespread voter fraud that cost him the popular vote during the 2016 election. Democrat Hillary Clinton received 2.8 million more votes nationwide than Trump.

While there have been isolated cases of voter fraud in the U.S., there is no evidence of it being a widespread problem, as Trump suggests.

Critics argue the commission is stacked with people who favor voting restrictions, rather than those who want to expand access, and that the commission has a predetermined agenda that will result in recommendations making it more difficult for people to register to vote, stay registered and cast ballots.

Its first significant action was to request a wide range of information about all registered voters in every state, including partial Social Security numbers, dates of birth, addresses and voting history. The commission scaled back its response after stinging criticism. A tally by Associated Press reporters nationwide shows that 15 states denied the request, raising questions about how useful the information will be.

In August, the AP filed a records request with the commission under the federal Freedom of Information Act. The law specifies that agencies — including presidential commissions — have 20 business days to respond or 10 calendar days if the request was filed on an expedited basis, as the AP’s was. To date, the AP has received no response from the commission despite multiple attempts to get one.

The commission’s secrecy prompted a lawsuit by the Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, which alleges the commission is violating federal open meetings and disclosure laws.

The group’s executive director, Kristen Clarke, said she was hard-pressed to think of another commission that had acted in such secrecy.

“We have found that, in every respect, this commission has been carrying out its activities in an almost covert fashion,” she said.

The lack of openness even applies to members of Congress.

Democratic senators have filed at least five separate requests for information with the commission since June, and a Sept. 12 follow-up letter noted that none of those had received a response.

“The Commission has not responded to a single letter from Senators with oversight jurisdiction over the Commission and continues to be rebuked for its questionable activities,” said the letter by Democratic Sens. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota and Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island.

Last week, a group of three Democratic senators wrote the Government Accountability Office seeking an investigation into the commission because of its lack responsiveness and transparency. The letter signed by Sens. Michael Bennet of Colorado, Cory Booker of New Jersey and Klobuchar cited a lack of transparency on the commission and concern that its conclusions would diminish confidence in the democratic process.

“It is incredible that they are not responding to any of this stuff, and that’s why it’s appropriate for GAO to take a look,” Bennet said in an interview.  

https://apnews.com/bbeec75d754a4f738acffacb1523429e/Trump-voting-commission-criticized-for-lack-of-transparency

(10-23-2017, 05:08 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: With all that is happening collectively are we able to find the light that shines in the darkness indicating a change in perspective? Could it be yet the Millennials who will be able to show us that iIt’s possible that the grass is greener on the other side because you can see the signs of prosperity more clearly than you ever have before?

Quote:Fellow citizens, we cannot escape history. We of this congress and this administration will be remembered in spite of ourselves. No personal significance or insignificance can spare one or another of us. The fiery trial through which we pass will light us down in honor or dishonor to the latest generation. We, even we here, hold the power and bear the responsibility. (Annual Message to Congress, December 1, 1862)

The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty and we must rise with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves and then we shall save our country. (Annual Message to Congress, December 1, 1862)

It is the eternal struggle between two principles, right and wrong, throughout the world. It is the same spirit that says 'you toil and work and earn bread, and I'll eat it.' No matter in what shape it comes, whether from the mouth of a king who seeks to bestride the people of his own nation, and live by the fruit of their labor, or from one race of men as an apology for enslaving another race, it is the same tyrannical principle." (Lincoln-Douglas debates, October 15, 1858)

As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference, is no democracy. (Unknown, though in Lincoln's Collected Works)

That from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion. That we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain. That this nation under God shall have a new birth of freedom and that government of the people, by the people, and for the people shall not perish from the earth. (Gettysburg Address)