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+---- Thread: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory (/thread-401.html)
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - pbrower2a - 06-20-2017
(06-20-2017, 06:23 AM)Odin Wrote: Galen is a brainwashed tool, Brower. No amount of evidence is going to convince him. His brain has been turned to mush by InfoWars-grade BS.
True. I have simply lost patience with him. I recognize that his ideology can lead only to a sick society.
Galen can't accept the consensus that the 2016 election may have been hacked...and he even trivializes the consequences in the event that it was hacked, and even of the possibility that subsequent elections might be hacked to the benefit of Democrats. All that matters is that he gets his way, a truly debased level of moral thought.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Odin - 06-21-2017
(06-20-2017, 08:45 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:(06-20-2017, 06:23 AM)Odin Wrote: Galen is a brainwashed tool, Brower. No amount of evidence is going to convince him. His brain has been turned to mush by InfoWars-grade BS.
True. I have simply lost patience with him. I recognize that his ideology can lead only to a sick society.
Galen can't accept the consensus that the 2016 election may have been hacked...and he even trivializes the consequences in the event that it was hacked, and even of the possibility that subsequent elections might be hacked to the benefit of Democrats. All that matters is that he gets his way, a truly debased level of moral thought.
Senator Angus King (I-ME) was on NPR this morning and was talking about how this is the same shit the Russians been pulling in eastern Europe for years. Of course Galen would just dismiss it as "just another lie by the Deep State" or other such tin-foil-hattery.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - pbrower2a - 06-21-2017
(06-21-2017, 06:52 AM)Odin Wrote:(06-20-2017, 08:45 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:(06-20-2017, 06:23 AM)Odin Wrote: Galen is a brainwashed tool, Brower. No amount of evidence is going to convince him. His brain has been turned to mush by InfoWars-grade BS.
True. I have simply lost patience with him. I recognize that his ideology can lead only to a sick society.
Galen can't accept the consensus that the 2016 election may have been hacked...and he even trivializes the consequences in the event that it was hacked, and even of the possibility that subsequent elections might be hacked to the benefit of Democrats. All that matters is that he gets his way, a truly debased level of moral thought.
Senator Angus King (I-ME) was on NPR this morning and was talking about how this is the same shit the Russians been pulling in eastern Europe for years. Of course Galen would just dismiss it as "just another lie by the Deep State" or other such tin-foil-hattery.
The Russians, no longer Marxists, have found how to appeal to the base drives of America's economic elites -- their greed, their exclusivity, and their cruelty. Russia is a good model for them because a few people in Russia have taken over the 'socialist' economy. The Gini coefficient for Russia is very high, indicating the economic and political power of tycoons like Vladimir Putin. American economic elites, whose ideal might be a return to the sort of inequality of the plantation or the early-industrial era (with the seventy-hour workweeks and forty-year lifespans for industrial workers), could align themselves with an anti-capitalist Soviet Union only when the Soviet Union was America's ally against the gangsters of Nazi Germany who intended to steal American wealth on behalf of the Nazi gangsters. But now that Russia is ultra-capitalist, Russia is no problem.
Under the dyed-in-the-wool Reds the Soviet leadership could never appeal to American economic elites who saw Marxism as a bogey. Our elites never really hated Russia; they had no problem with Russian culture. They love hierarchy and bureaucratic privilege. They like an economy that offers at most promises of pie-in-the-sky to the masses who have no alternatives.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - pbrower2a - 06-21-2017
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/21/politics/jeh-johnson-congress-hearing/index.html
Hey, Galen! Your opinion that Russian intelligence and security services did nothing to influence the 2016 election seems to be enduring a death by a thousand cuts.
How do we stop the next hack? And if the last election was hacked by foreign agents, then what do we do as sanctions against the foreign power?
Redo 2016?
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Galen - 06-21-2017
(06-21-2017, 02:04 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/21/politics/jeh-johnson-congress-hearing/index.html
Hey, Galen! Your opinion that Russian intelligence and security services did nothing to influence the 2016 election seems to be enduring a death by a thousand cuts.
Some republican left a bunch of voter data on an open server. Also reveals why putting shit on the cloud is a bad idea. More a case of stupidity by an individual rather than an intentional breach created by an outside party. You have once again revealed an inability to read as well a lack of understanding about technology.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - pbrower2a - 06-22-2017
(06-21-2017, 02:37 PM)Galen Wrote:(06-21-2017, 02:04 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/21/politics/jeh-johnson-congress-hearing/index.html
Hey, Galen! Your opinion that Russian intelligence and security services did nothing to influence the 2016 election seems to be enduring a death by a thousand cuts.
Some republican left a bunch of voter data on an open server. Also reveals why putting shit on the cloud is a bad idea. More a case of stupidity by an individual rather than an intentional breach created by an outside party. You have once again revealed an inability to read as well a lack of understanding about technology.
I'm 61 years old. I was born closer to the horse-and-buggy days than I was to today. When I was a kid, 'Nineties meant the 1890s.. when there were still lots of Civil War veterans, when ragtime was the scorned pop culture, when one could snap up Impressionist paintings dirt cheap, when Mahler and Sibelius were composing great orchestral scores and Puccini was composing great operas, Southern blacks lived in abject fear of the Master Race, Ukraine was much like the 'Russia' that Sholem Aleichem depicted with his inimitable humor, and industrial workers worked seventy-hour weeks but were in the grave by age forty. Sure, I could have felt comfortable in such times -- but only if I were part of the economic elite or at the least the tiny middle class. I wouldn't like the politics; after all I hate the reactionary agenda of President Donald Judas Trump.
I'm old; I admit it. Sure, I might have a fantasy about some woman less than half my age -- but she would quickly remind me of how old I am. I can't keep up with technology and mass culture as I used to. If I had to do heavy labor for seventy hours a week, I wouldn't last long. Sure, I am more fit than most people my age. I could do a twenty-mile hike with no problem. Mass culture of my time? I relate more easily to the high culture of the 'Nineties, as in Mahler, Sibelius, and Puccini (that's just music). The 1890s. As for technology -- the computer technology that I use is about thirty years old now. But I am not technically trained, so even if I was alert to technological trends of when I was a young adult, I am not so now. I am alert to some concerns about security, as I made some jokes about North Korea and got a nasty virus on the computer. I would know enough to make sure that I not place confidential material where it can be hacked. Democracies tend to have elderly politicians and those often have nearly-elderly people managing the technology of electoral politics. That's one of the vulnerabilities of our system. Figure that the 25-year-old Russian university grad working for the FSB is far more tech-savvy than I am.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Odin - 06-22-2017
Election Hackers Altered Voter Rolls, Stole Private Data, Officials Say
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - pbrower2a - 06-22-2017
(CNN)Two of the nation's top intelligence officials told Special Counsel Robert Mueller's team and Senate investigators, in separate meetings last week, that President Donald Trump suggested they say publicly there was no collusion between his campaign and the Russians, according to multiple sources.
Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats and National Security Agency Director Adm. Mike Rogers described their interactions with the President about the Russia investigation as odd and uncomfortable, but said they did not believe the President gave them orders to interfere, according to multiple sources familiar with their accounts.
Sources say both men went further than they did in June 7 public hearings, when they provided little detail about the interactions.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/22/politics/intel-chiefs-trump-refute-collusion/index.html
It looks as if President Trump expects others to tell one consistent false story. This is Mafia boss behavior -- except that the usual Mob boss is more effective and never has subordinates sworn to uphold the Constitution.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Galen - 06-23-2017
(06-22-2017, 03:52 PM)Odin Wrote: Election Hackers Altered Voter Rolls, Stole Private Data, Officials Say
Yes, the FBI say something but provides no evidence other than the allegation that Russia did it. Given the state of most organizations computer security including that of various governments I am not all that surprised it happens. I also know that it is quite possible to disguise IP addresses and indeed the Vault 7 data revealed that the CIA created software to alter more than an IP address to falsify the source.
You should also be aware that the very organizations that you want me to take at their word have always opposed a secure internet because such security makes it harder to snoop on everyone. In a very real sense the FBI, CIA, NSA and a whole lot of three-letter agencies have contributed to this problem. Think of it as yet another example of government incompetence to add to the list.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Odin - 06-23-2017
(06-23-2017, 02:16 AM)Galen Wrote:(06-22-2017, 03:52 PM)Odin Wrote: Election Hackers Altered Voter Rolls, Stole Private Data, Officials Say
Yes, the FBI say something but provides no evidence other than the allegation that Russia did it. Given the state of most organizations computer security including that of various governments I am not all that surprised it happens. I also know that it is quite possible to disguise IP addresses and indeed the Vault 7 data revealed that the CIA created software to alter more than an IP address to falsify the source.
You should also be aware that the very organizations that you want me to take at their word have always opposed a secure internet because such security makes it harder to snoop on everyone. In a very real sense the FBI, CIA, NSA and a whole lot of three-letter agencies have contributed to this problem. Think of it as yet another example of government incompetence to add to the list.
There you go again, tin-foil BS and more deflection to unrelated topics.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - pbrower2a - 06-23-2017
(06-23-2017, 02:16 AM)Galen Wrote:(06-22-2017, 03:52 PM)Odin Wrote: Election Hackers Altered Voter Rolls, Stole Private Data, Officials Say
Yes, the FBI say something but provides no evidence other than the allegation that Russia did it. Given the state of most organizations computer security including that of various governments I am not all that surprised it happens. I also know that it is quite possible to disguise IP addresses and indeed the Vault 7 data revealed that the CIA created software to alter more than an IP address to falsify the source.
Unless we are in law enforcement we have no right to know how an investigation into criminal wrongdoing is going until the case goes to court or is resolved in a plea bargain. Full disclosure that might help perpetrators get away with a crime is incompatible with the objectives of law enforcement.
We simply do not know anything but the sketchiest details from the FBI. People that the FBI is investigating can talk, which is their prerogative. It is also foolishness. What they leak to the rest of us can only hurt them. That includes even self-serving denials.
Quote:You should also be aware that the very organizations that you want me to take at their word have always opposed a secure internet because such security makes it harder to snoop on everyone. In a very real sense the FBI, CIA, NSA and a whole lot of three-letter agencies have contributed to this problem. Think of it as yet another example of government incompetence to add to the list.
I trust the intelligence and law enforcement agencies more than I trust the President. It may be that the FBI and CIA are trying to act as if Barack Obama were still President. They had no big problems with him.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Galen - 06-27-2017
Project Veritas strikes again and shows us how useless the MSM is. More to the point even CNN knows there is no evidence backing up their Russia narrative.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Ragnarök_62 - 06-27-2017
(06-27-2017, 03:47 AM)Galen Wrote: Project Veritas strikes again and shows us how useless the MSM is. More to the point even CNN knows there is no evidence backing up their Russia narrative.
Yes, I saw it on teh interwebs.... So Crappy Nonews Network, whatcha gotta say about spewing false propaganda?
And.... So, a distraction, as always.
And now a distraction on the other side. The Republicans said today, "Medicare needs to be cut' cause there's deadbeats on it.
Nope, lots of working poor need it, cause salaries ain't what they used to be. The GOP is living in the past, man.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - David Horn - 06-27-2017
(06-27-2017, 06:55 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: ... The Republicans said today, "Medicare needs to be cut' cause there's deadbeats on it.
Nope, lots of working poor need it, cause salaries ain't what they used to be. The GOP is living in the past, man.
No, they're living in the never-was and expecting the never-will-be. Self delusion ... the most powerful force on earth.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Galen - 06-28-2017
(06-27-2017, 06:55 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: And now a distraction on the other side. The Republicans said today, "Medicare needs to be cut' cause there's deadbeats on it.
Nope, lots of working poor need it, cause salaries ain't what they used to be. The GOP is living in the past, man.
There is still that small matter of 20 trillion debt and over 150 trillion in unfunded liabilities to be dealt with. Remember Gary North's pie chart of federal spending. Entitlement spending will decrease in real terms no matter who is running the show. Same for defense spending.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Odin - 06-28-2017
(06-27-2017, 03:47 AM)Galen Wrote: Project Veritas strikes again and shows us how useless the MSM is. More to the point even CNN knows there is no evidence backing up their Russia narrative.
You're a fucking moron if you believe anything put put by James O'Keefe.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Odin - 06-28-2017
(06-27-2017, 06:55 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: The Republicans said today, "Medicare needs to be cut' cause there's deadbeats on it.
Nope, lots of working poor need it, cause salaries ain't what they used to be. The GOP is living in the past, man.
Grandma in the nursing home is also on Medicaid. People like Galen are completely and utterly delusional if long-term care for the elderly can be funded by charity.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Bob Butler 54 - 06-28-2017
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest,
Paul Simon, The Boxer
(The lyrics web page has the chorus as 'Li la li'. Funny. I always hear it as 'lie lie lie...')
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - pbrower2a - 06-28-2017
(06-28-2017, 02:22 AM)Galen Wrote:(06-27-2017, 06:55 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: And now a distraction on the other side. The Republicans said today, "Medicare needs to be cut' cause there's deadbeats on it.
Nope, lots of working poor need it, cause salaries ain't what they used to be. The GOP is living in the past, man.
There is still that small matter of 20 trillion debt and over 150 trillion in unfunded liabilities to be dealt with. Remember Gary North's pie chart of federal spending. Entitlement spending will decrease in real terms no matter who is running the show. Same for defense spending.
The $20 trillion debt is your money supply, the petrodollars that fund the supply of cheap energy that allows people to take long commutes to and from work (like from San Bernardino to downtown Los Angeles, or Muncie to Indianapolis, or even Scranton to New York City) and a welfare system that prevents the sort of civil unrest that toppled Nicolae Ceausescu. The cash in your wallet is federal debt, as is the balance in your checking account and your savings.
Truth be told, we are into an age of industrial futility, when the manufacture of more stuff is suspect as a means of creating happiness. The direction of capitalism seems now to be to make sure that people pay more for what they get, as through adding more layers of profit as through legal loan-sharks.
Say what you want about Karl Marx, whom you likely see as the prophet of the Antichrist -- but he is the first to suggest that there would be an age without material scarcity. That age is Communism (not to be confused with the ideology of communist parties and movements that intended to rush economic development by cutting out the capitalists like Donald Trump who take a hefty cut out of economic progress as their vulgar indulgence).
Many people are coming to the conclusion that simple living is the way to not be sacrifices to Mammon. The technology of our time allows to live as richly as ever without buying so much stuff. A reader device available for about $100 (less than the cost of two cartons of cancerettes or four fifths of overpriced whiskey) can get you computing power that mainframe computers of the late 1940s could never provide. Those mainframe computers couldn't do word processing, dammit! And what can you use those readers for? Getting access to some of the great cultural achievements of about all but the last century of human existence free (copyright protects most material less than a century old). Even with copyrighted material there is much competition from new stuff in old stuff.
The two-car garage of the 1970s isn't being replaced by the three-car garage. The suburban 2-bath, 4BR use isn't being supplanted by the 4-bath, 5BR suburban house complete with a private movie theater. I remember the projection that middle-class people would all own their own aircraft. Sure, they do -- if you mean toy drones being sold as toys. You can collect hundreds of photographic images cheaply with a digital still camera or get a minicam and st it upon a tripod -- and pretend to be Alfred Hitchcock. OK, it's not quite that simple, for few people have the talent.
If you want to know what is making life harder than it was fifty years ago -- it's population growth. Maybe if America still had 100 million people, then people would have three-car garages and maybe personal hangars for private aircraft. Commutes and commute times would be short, as there would not be the suburban sprawl that allows Dallas and Fort Worth or San Francisco and San Jose to look like one spread-out city. There would not be as much competition for jobs. But we are here, and we aren't going away short of some new equivalent of the Black Death. or such a horror as thermonuclear warfare.
We have more talent than we have demand for it. Creative people must still compete with the likes of Hokusai, Beethoven, and Dickens.
So what do we do?
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Ragnarök_62 - 06-28-2017
(06-28-2017, 02:22 AM)Galen Wrote:(06-27-2017, 06:55 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: And now a distraction on the other side. The Republicans said today, "Medicare needs to be cut' cause there's deadbeats on it.
Nope, lots of working poor need it, cause salaries ain't what they used to be. The GOP is living in the past, man.
There is still that small matter of 20 trillion debt and over 150 trillion in unfunded liabilities to be dealt with. Remember Gary North's pie chart of federal spending. Entitlement spending will decrease in real terms no matter who is running the show. Same for defense spending.
The debt/deficit can be relieved somewhat with.
1. Cut MIC spending by 60%
2. fix SS by popping the cap.
3. Have a top income tax bracket for those with over $1,000,000.
4. Fix drug patent laws such that pay to delay [competition] is forbidden.
5. A law where medical providers must provide their costs for service. I do not know how much a one night hospital stay will run. Also, each medical code needs to be deciphered , translated into English and a price for them as well.
6. If the above isn't enough then have a VAT to pay off the balance.
Yes, not too many things are free. However, I categorize health care as a public good since the ability to pay happens to be a lot of times less than the price of the goods and services. That is also why natural monopolies need regulations. No ideology has all of the answers.
Unfunded liabilities. Yes, most of these are pension related. These should be modified such that new entrants get a 401K, which must be funded yearly. The actual deficient part should be adjusted such that the payouts are based on yearly catch payments cojoined with converting the existing employees' pension to a 401K. The payouts would be reduced say on age.
Of course nobody will like Rags' pension reform idea. However, the fact remains, lots of public pensions are defacto bankrupt.
[That is to say, the amount owed is much greater than what can be paid. As for SS, ideally, popping the cap and if that doesn't get there, I'm OK with means testing the thing. Medicare, well let's just combine all other health programs into Medicare. Next, see the stuff numbered above. The main problem in the US wrt healthcare is that it's overpriced. If there are regulations that prop up prices, they should go. An example is the prohibition on selling health insurance across state lines. Ideally folks would just buy health insurance for extra stuff that Medicare does not provide. The prohibition of access to drugs sold in Canada, India, etc. also needs to go.