(10-03-2017, 02:45 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: On the other side, classical musicians (except for French horn players -- it's a beautiful instrument but brutal on lungs) can live very long lives. It may be hard to believe, but Itzhak Perlman, who must have had as punishing a schedule as any rock star at one time, seems very healthy -- at 72. And he had polio.

Classical conductors are famous for long lives. Sure, there are accidents (Guido Cantelli, air crash; Istvan Kertesz, drowning) .. but even Bernstein lived into his seventies despite being gay and a smoker. Neville Marriner recently died at age 93. Toscanini died just short of age 90.

Fritz Reiner, Colin Davis, Georg Solti, Claudio Abbado, Nikolaus Harnoncourt, Charles Mackerras, Thomas Beecham, Bruno Walter, Karl Boehm, and Herbert von Karajan reached their eighties. Bernard Haitink is 88, and Seijo Ozawa is in his 80s. Leopold Stokowski barely missed being a centenarian. Want to live a long life, and have the choice of any career? Be a symphony conductor. I am not saying that that is a choice for many people. Neither is being a rock star.  

Concert pianists, violinists, and cellists? We have plenty of examples of octogenarians and nonagenarians. Horowitz, Serkin, Rubinstein... that's pianists. Don't forget harpsichordists, among which I can count Wanda Landowska, Gustav Leonhart, and some Czech harpsichordist whose name you can easily recover.

Do classical musicians take better care of themselves? Maybe. Maybe being well rested before a concert is a necessity. Junk food may not be part of the tour (although most of these performers lived before junk food was common).

(10-05-2017, 11:18 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Excellent point. Maybe rock stars can learn a thing or two from those within the longer classical musical tradition. It is not a given that rock stars must take drugs, eat poorly, or not stop touring even when the pressure becomes too much.

Of course, comparing rock stars to conductors and performers may not be totally fair. Rock musicians are frequently the creators of music today (although the music is usually not as good, from a refined and educated point of view), whereas the most apt comparison might be to classical composers. Rock n roll and jazz artists apparently have a tradition of drugs and/or alcohol to release inhibitions and open themselves to inspiration as well as to relieve pressure.

In the old days classical composers tended to die young. And they are still the best composers in the tradition, although society was less healthy than today. One of the best composers of recent times, though, Alan Hovhannes, lived to be 89. Harold Shapero lived to be 93.

(10-05-2017, 12:46 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-05-2017, 11:18 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Excellent point. Maybe rock stars can learn a thing or two from those within the longer classical musical tradition. It is not a given that rock stars must take drugs, eat poorly, or not stop touring even when the pressure becomes too much.

Of course, comparing rock stars to conductors and performers may not be totally fair. Rock musicians are frequently the creators of music today (although the music is usually not as good, from a refined and educated point of view), whereas the most apt comparison might be to classical composers. Rock n roll and jazz artists apparently have a tradition of drugs and/or alcohol to release inhibitions and open themselves to inspiration as well as to relieve pressure.

In the old days classical composers tended to die young. And they are still the best composers in the tradition, although society was less healthy than today. One of the best composers of recent times, though, Alan Hovhannes, lived to be 89. Harold Shapero lived to be 93.

 Does Igor Stravinsky count as 'recent'? He died when we were teenagers.

Conducting is a mildly-athletic activity which conductors don't usually give up (other musicians tend to go that way, as Perlman is doing).  Although vigorous physical exercise such as running is really good for extending a lifetime, and I might note that one of the best identities for living to an advanced age is "Old Order Amish" -- they have practically no white-collar or sedentary jobs, and men and women both do heavy work for a long time.

But yes, avoid drugs and cancerweed, drink in moderation if at all, don't sleep with everything that moves, keep physically active,  get adequate rest, and avoid junk food. If I am to guess which rock star is to live to age 90 who is now about 70 -- try Mick Jagger. It also helps to be intelligent enough to find meaning in life even in tough times (ask me!), and some of those rockers really are brilliant people.  And let us not forget how surprised we were to find not that Chick Berry died, but instead that he was 90. We have few early rockers yet in their 80's. I think that Paul McCartney will get there.

One can age oneself quickly with cocaine. Think of Whitney Houston. I can only imagine what her heart (the organ) was like -- probably nonagenarian for all practical purposes.  But the old perils for composers were much the same as those for most people at the time -- largely infectious diseases, diabetes, and cancer. Handel, Haydn, Verdi, Sibelius, and Vaughan-Williams lived to ripe old ages.

(10-05-2017, 02:03 PM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(10-05-2017, 12:46 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-05-2017, 11:18 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Excellent point. Maybe rock stars can learn a thing or two from those within the longer classical musical tradition. It is not a given that rock stars must take drugs, eat poorly, or not stop touring even when the pressure becomes too much.

Of course, comparing rock stars to conductors and performers may not be totally fair. Rock musicians are frequently the creators of music today (although the music is usually not as good, from a refined and educated point of view), whereas the most apt comparison might be to classical composers. Rock n roll and jazz artists apparently have a tradition of drugs and/or alcohol to release inhibitions and open themselves to inspiration as well as to relieve pressure.

In the old days classical composers tended to die young. And they are still the best composers in the tradition, although society was less healthy than today. One of the best composers of recent times, though, Alan Hovhannes, lived to be 89. Harold Shapero lived to be 93.

 Does Igor Stravinsky count as 'recent'? He died when we were teenagers.

Conducting is a mildly-athletic activity which conductors don't usually give up (other musicians tend to go that way, as Perlman is doing).  Although vigorous physical exercise such as running is really good for extending a lifetime, and I might note that one of the best identities for living to an advanced age is "Old Order Amish" -- they have practically no white-collar or sedentary jobs, and men and women both do heavy work for a long time.

But yes, avoid drugs and cancerweed, drink in moderation if at all, don't sleep with everything that moves, keep physically active,  get adequate rest, and avoid junk food. If I am to guess which rock star is to live to age 90 who is now about 70 -- try Mick Jagger. It also helps to be intelligent enough to find meaning in life even in tough times (ask me!), and some of those rockers really are brilliant people.  And let us not forget how surprised we were to find not that Chick Berry died, but instead that he was 90. We have few early rockers yet in their 80's. I think that Paul McCartney will get there.

One can age oneself quickly with cocaine. Think of Whitney Houston. I can only imagine what her heart (the organ) was like -- probably nonagenarian for all practical purposes.  But the old perils for composers were much the same as those for most people at the time -- largely infectious diseases, diabetes, and cancer. Handel, Haydn, Verdi, Sibelius, and Vaughan-Williams lived to ripe old ages.

Of course there are notable exceptions in the rock field. Chuck Berry lived to 90. Kristofferson has now passed 80 and Dylan is well into his 70s. Are they the exceptions to the rule; probably not. He wasn't really a rocker, but Pete Seeger lived to 94.

(10-25-2017, 09:10 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: astronaut Paul J. Weitz

Paul Joseph Weitz (July 25, 1932 – October 22, 2017) was an American naval officer and aviator, aeronautical engineer, test pilot, and NASA astronaut, who flew into space twice. He was a member of the three-man crew who flew on Skylab 2, the first manned Skylab mission. He was also Commander of the STS-6 mission, the first of the Space Shuttle Challenger flights.

(10-25-2017, 03:08 PM)Galen Wrote:

(10-25-2017, 09:10 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: astronaut Paul J. Weitz

Paul Joseph Weitz (July 25, 1932 – October 22, 2017) was an American naval officer and aviator, aeronautical engineer, test pilot, and NASA astronaut, who flew into space twice. He was a member of the three-man crew who flew on Skylab 2, the first manned Skylab mission. He was also Commander of the STS-6 mission, the first of the Space Shuttle Challenger flights.

The Silent generation is dropping like flies.

Quote:Warm and unthreatening even by the intensely congenial standards of New Orleans, he's remembered with fond condescension as significantly less innovative than his uncommercial compatriots Professor Longhair and James Booker. But though his bouncy boogie-woogie piano and easy Creole gait were generically Ninth Ward, they defined a pop-friendly second-line beat that nobody knew was there before he and Dave Bartholomew created 'The Fat Man' in 1949. In short, this shy, deferential, uncharismatic man invented New Orleans rock and roll.[67]