+- Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory (http://generational-theory.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Fourth Turning Forums (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Current Events (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-34.html)
+---- Forum: General Political Discussion (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-15.html)
+---- Thread: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. (/thread-294.html)
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - pbrower2a - 05-15-2019
(05-15-2019, 02:08 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:(05-13-2019, 11:28 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:(05-13-2019, 10:28 PM)inser79 Wrote: Yawn More Muh Russia nonsense. Funny you Blues were all about Russia when it was communist. I'm not impressed with Mr. Horn's sources. Or the Dallas Gazette either which for all I know is just an other dying Democrat rag. And accusations are just that. If someone has evidence bring it to court or they are doing nothing but slandering. And there is a lot of slander--or perhaps in this case libel going on and it is coming from the left.
The reference was to the Dallas Morning News, one of the most conservative large-circulation newspapers of a giant American city. Printed newspapers and magazines everywhere may be a dying technology as mews on newsprint becomes more costly than news through other means. I think also of brick-and-mortar stores for anything other than groceries, motor fuel, greeting cards, lottery tickets, liquor, and cancerweed products.
As for Russia --the Soviet Union was becoming more economically and technologically backward in contrast to the West, but many of us liberals thought glasnost and perestroika good ideas for modernizing the Soviet Union politically and technologically. But that short window of time, when the Soviet Union was making baby steps toward markets and general openness, did not last. Russia got a taste of democracy -- but that is over. Russia is run by oligarchs and has a single-party system as rigid as that of China. It is now right-wingers who especially love Russia.
I find that retail itself is pretty much dying in the traditional sense. Also I'm not convinced that this newspaper is "conservative" because you say it is. I have a subscription to a paper too. I find it necessary from time to time to line my cats' litter boxes and the Orlando Sentinel does a very good job in that regard, it also provides free wrapping paper for gifts, is good for cleaning windows and can be used to wipe one's ass in a pinch. The trick is to not use the shiny paper--that shit is worthless for those practical applications.
I don't see many people starting small businesses other than ethnic restaurants and food stores catering to the fast-growing Latino population where I live. Retailing is the sort of work that one does if one does not want to do real work or develop any skills on the job, and it pays accordingly. The retail sector might attract talented people in a recession, but the talented people in such work ordinarily leave before they can shake things up. Otherwise I remember it around 1980 -- full of young women who said things like "I don't want to be a secretary" -- and within six months they were in secretarial school or young men who came to the conclusion thaqt they would do far better doing car repairs.
Besides, most people have all the stuff that they need. Manufacturing serves the needs of either population growth or the replacement of obsolete or broken stuff. Heck, I have gotten some good bone china -- cheap -- at Goodwill. Apparently the kids didn't want their parents' old stuff, but it was better than what I had or had broken when it falls onto a tile floor.
Quote:As for getting news...I have other sources.
Names?
Quote:Having been to Russia, it is still far to the left of the US in many regards (and yes I've been there recently). Glastnost and Peristroika were a backward attempt to modernize Russia. Gorbachev if he was serious about preserving the Union should have focused on the economy first and then liberalized politically when and where necessary like Deng did in China, and like Kim seems to be attempting to do in the DPRK.
Laos and Vietnam never really constructed or attempted to construct socialism, their system is communist in name only and mostly a relic of the Cold War anyway and their economies are quite liberal if their politics are not.
Putin has not fully destroyed the legacy of socialism. Here is what happened when a country destroyed the legacy of the Soviet era and replaced it with nothing:
The tongue-in-cheek guide calls a wall full of election posters the "Wall of Crooks", identifying some of them as people who took the tax revenues and the receipts of foreign trade and went off to the South of France, where they have mansions. He accuses the Communists of being just as crooked. My guess is that Chisinau, Moldova is a city with no civic identity in a country with nearly thirty years of bad leadership. Maybe the economic system is not everything.
China is in no way liberal, and it is arguable that socialism ill fit a nation as entrepreneurial in habit as the Chinese. Laos is poor because it is isolated and has few resources. Vietnam is much like China in its heritage. North Korean leadership is simply mad. From what I have seen of video of South Korea -- I have seen the future, and it works (unless the mad leadership of North Korea chooses to nuke it into ruin). North Korea occasionally sends infiltrators to South Korea, and those infiltrators usually get caught for wearing the wrong sorts of clothes and for for linguistic shibboleths such as the Korean word for "comrade". South Korean officials can reputedly crack the infiltrator one day after the arrest. The second day is a guided tour of a South Korean supermarket.
Quote:I'm using liberal in the 19th century sense and not the retarded way the American Left has hijacked that word for their own purposes.
Words with political charge slowly evolve in meaning. What was liberal or progressive in 1850 (like abolition of slavery or the franchise to women) is often taken for granted. Politics evolves after the politicians solve problems.
Quote:As for the Right liking Russia now...there is much to like about Putin's Russia. Starting with it is stable, and well run, and that he's been actively promoting both Russian Culture and Russian Orthodoxy (which is only a real problem for the evangelicals who have a thing about anything remotely like Catholicism)
Have I said that I have any problem with either Russian culture or with the Russian Orthodox Church? My problem is with Russia is with its political heritage.
Quote:[/quote]Quote:Quote:Makes me wonder if Muh Russia-Gate is a matter of projection again.
If only it were not true.
It isn't. The Mueller report was a big giant nothing burger and Rachel Meddow who did nothing but promote Muh Russia-Gate for two years has egg on her face. Maybe you need glasses so that you can see it. Want me to google an optometrist for you?
How would you know? I have read the first part of the report. As for glasses, I had my eyes checked in November, and I have glasses from then.
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - Eric the Green - 05-15-2019
I wonder if things are any better in the other former Soviet Republics, most of which were also in Europe. He said they were better.
Didn't Moldova want to rejoin Russia, or Russia claim it?
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - Kinser79 - 05-16-2019
(05-15-2019, 02:47 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (Stuff)
You really are completely clueless aren't you. Did you even read my previous post? I doubt it.
As for my news sources..you wouldn't like them. Lets just say I listen to people from Alex Jones to Rachel Meddow. The truth is somewhere between those two extremes.
I also watch the meme magic flow on the internets. To understand why Daddy is president one has to understand the flow of meme magic. Without that: one is a blind man, in a dark room, looking for a black cat that isn't there and proclaiming that they found it.
For the record Tim Pool is somewhere in center-left territory.
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - pbrower2a - 05-16-2019
(05-15-2019, 06:38 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I wonder if things are any better in the other former Soviet Republics, most of which were also in Europe. He said they were better.
Didn't Moldova want to rejoin Russia, or Russia claim it?
More likely Romania, which held it between 1921 and 1940. Romania is by contrast an economic and political success story. The average salary in Moldova is equivalent to 298 euros in contrast to 996 euros in Romania as of 2018. Ouch!
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - David Horn - 05-16-2019
(05-16-2019, 03:14 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: … I also watch the meme magic flow on the internets. To understand why Daddy is president one has to understand the flow of meme magic. Without that: one is a blind man, in a dark room, looking for a black cat that isn't there and proclaiming that they found it.
Meme magic is an oxymoron. Memes only have power over those fully invested in them, which makes the 'magic' part a non sequitur. FWIW, a very large part of Trump's nominal base is already bailing on him as a candidate for 2020, because he finally added one too many insults to the pile of inflicted injuries. They've had enough.
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - pbrower2a - 05-17-2019
Indeed -- there is no higher truth than objective reality. Memes are tawdry substitutes for objective reality.
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - Kinser79 - 05-22-2019
(05-16-2019, 02:51 PM)David Horn Wrote:(05-16-2019, 03:14 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: … I also watch the meme magic flow on the internets. To understand why Daddy is president one has to understand the flow of meme magic. Without that: one is a blind man, in a dark room, looking for a black cat that isn't there and proclaiming that they found it.
Meme magic is an oxymoron. Memes only have power over those fully invested in them, which makes the 'magic' part a non sequitur. FWIW, a very large part of Trump's nominal base is already bailing on him as a candidate for 2020, because he finally added one too many insults to the pile of inflicted injuries. They've had enough.
Memetics works the same way as a force of nature works. I don't have to believe in rain for it to rain. The 'magic' part is merely a shorthand for the natural flow of information in the form of memes. Which is the way information is transfered from person to person naturally.
As for Trump losing his base, I'm interested in hearing where you found that particular bit of fake news.
Aggrigate totals are still in the mid-40s which shows his hard support hasn't lessened. The Democrats have to errode his soft support which means they have to run Biden and Daddy can easily beat Creepy Uncle Joe.
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - Kinser79 - 05-22-2019
(05-17-2019, 07:09 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Indeed -- there is no higher truth than objective reality. Memes are tawdry substitutes for objective reality.
Spoken exactly like someone who neither understands reality nor memes would.
Can't say I'm surprised...the Left after all can't meme.
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - pbrower2a - 05-22-2019
(05-22-2019, 08:16 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:(05-17-2019, 07:09 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Indeed -- there is no higher truth than objective reality. Memes are tawdry substitutes for objective reality.
Spoken exactly like someone who neither understands reality nor memes would.
Can't say I'm surprised...the Left after all can't meme.
Spoken like someone who accepts that truth is whatever happens to be convenient at the moment, and who cannot easily distinguish truth from his opinion.
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - Kinser79 - 05-22-2019
(05-22-2019, 11:43 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Spoken like someone who accepts that truth is whatever happens to be convenient at the moment, and who cannot easily distinguish truth from his opinion.
You'd be the expert there not me.
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - David Horn - 05-22-2019
(05-22-2019, 08:05 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:(05-16-2019, 02:51 PM)David Horn Wrote:(05-16-2019, 03:14 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: … I also watch the meme magic flow on the internets. To understand why Daddy is president one has to understand the flow of meme magic. Without that: one is a blind man, in a dark room, looking for a black cat that isn't there and proclaiming that they found it.
Meme magic is an oxymoron. Memes only have power over those fully invested in them, which makes the 'magic' part a non sequitur. FWIW, a very large part of Trump's nominal base is already bailing on him as a candidate for 2020, because he finally added one too many insults to the pile of inflicted injuries. They've had enough.
Memetics works the same way as a force of nature works. I don't have to believe in rain for it to rain. The 'magic' part is merely a shorthand for the natural flow of information in the form of memes. Which is the way information is transfered from person to person naturally.
As for Trump losing his base, I'm interested in hearing where you found that particular bit of fake news.
Aggrigate totals are still in the mid-40s which shows his hard support hasn't lessened. The Democrats have to errode his soft support which means they have to run Biden and Daddy can easily beat Creepy Uncle Joe.
I doubt we'll see a second round of DJT, unless the Dems do something incredibly stupid. The Senate and House are both open questions.
Interesting fact: a professor who has an economic model for predicting elections accurately has Trump winning at 56+%. We'll see how that plays.
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - Eric the Green - 05-22-2019
(05-22-2019, 03:07 PM)David Horn Wrote:(05-22-2019, 08:05 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:(05-16-2019, 02:51 PM)David Horn Wrote:(05-16-2019, 03:14 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: … I also watch the meme magic flow on the internets. To understand why Daddy is president one has to understand the flow of meme magic. Without that: one is a blind man, in a dark room, looking for a black cat that isn't there and proclaiming that they found it.
Meme magic is an oxymoron. Memes only have power over those fully invested in them, which makes the 'magic' part a non sequitur. FWIW, a very large part of Trump's nominal base is already bailing on him as a candidate for 2020, because he finally added one too many insults to the pile of inflicted injuries. They've had enough.
Memetics works the same way as a force of nature works. I don't have to believe in rain for it to rain. The 'magic' part is merely a shorthand for the natural flow of information in the form of memes. Which is the way information is transfered from person to person naturally.
As for Trump losing his base, I'm interested in hearing where you found that particular bit of fake news.
Aggrigate totals are still in the mid-40s which shows his hard support hasn't lessened. The Democrats have to errode his soft support which means they have to run Biden and Daddy can easily beat Creepy Uncle Joe.
I doubt we'll see a second round of DJT, unless the Dems do something incredibly stupid. The Senate and House are both open questions.
Interesting fact: a professor who has an economic model for predicting elections accurately has Trump winning at 56+%. We'll see how that plays.
This current Obama-Trump economy is why I gave Lichtman Key (was it #6) to Trump in the 2020 election thread.
Naturally, as you know, I maintain that it would be incredibly stupid for the Democrats to nominate anyone other than Sanders or Biden. And they are both crap shoots too.
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - Eric the Green - 05-22-2019
(05-22-2019, 11:43 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:(05-22-2019, 08:16 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:(05-17-2019, 07:09 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Indeed -- there is no higher truth than objective reality. Memes are tawdry substitutes for objective reality.
Spoken exactly like someone who neither understands reality nor memes would.
Can't say I'm surprised...the Left after all can't meme.
Spoken like someone who accepts that truth is whatever happens to be convenient at the moment, and who cannot easily distinguish truth from his opinion.
That's good ol' kinser, baby
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - Kinser79 - 05-22-2019
(05-22-2019, 03:07 PM)David Horn Wrote:(05-22-2019, 08:05 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:(05-16-2019, 02:51 PM)David Horn Wrote:(05-16-2019, 03:14 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: … I also watch the meme magic flow on the internets. To understand why Daddy is president one has to understand the flow of meme magic. Without that: one is a blind man, in a dark room, looking for a black cat that isn't there and proclaiming that they found it.
Meme magic is an oxymoron. Memes only have power over those fully invested in them, which makes the 'magic' part a non sequitur. FWIW, a very large part of Trump's nominal base is already bailing on him as a candidate for 2020, because he finally added one too many insults to the pile of inflicted injuries. They've had enough.
Memetics works the same way as a force of nature works. I don't have to believe in rain for it to rain. The 'magic' part is merely a shorthand for the natural flow of information in the form of memes. Which is the way information is transfered from person to person naturally.
As for Trump losing his base, I'm interested in hearing where you found that particular bit of fake news.
Aggrigate totals are still in the mid-40s which shows his hard support hasn't lessened. The Democrats have to errode his soft support which means they have to run Biden and Daddy can easily beat Creepy Uncle Joe.
I doubt we'll see a second round of DJT, unless the Dems do something incredibly stupid. The Senate and House are both open questions.
Interesting fact: a professor who has an economic model for predicting elections accurately has Trump winning at 56+%. We'll see how that plays.
The Dims are going to do something stupid. I think I'll leave this here.
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - pbrower2a - 05-22-2019
(05-22-2019, 03:07 PM)David Horn Wrote:(05-22-2019, 08:05 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:(05-16-2019, 02:51 PM)David Horn Wrote:(05-16-2019, 03:14 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: … I also watch the meme magic flow on the internets. To understand why Daddy is president one has to understand the flow of meme magic. Without that: one is a blind man, in a dark room, looking for a black cat that isn't there and proclaiming that they found it.
Meme magic is an oxymoron. Memes only have power over those fully invested in them, which makes the 'magic' part a non sequitur. FWIW, a very large part of Trump's nominal base is already bailing on him as a candidate for 2020, because he finally added one too many insults to the pile of inflicted injuries. They've had enough.
Memetics works the same way as a force of nature works. I don't have to believe in rain for it to rain. The 'magic' part is merely a shorthand for the natural flow of information in the form of memes. Which is the way information is transfered from person to person naturally.
As for Trump losing his base, I'm interested in hearing where you found that particular bit of fake news.
Aggrigate totals are still in the mid-40s which shows his hard support hasn't lessened. The Democrats have to errode his soft support which means they have to run Biden and Daddy can easily beat Creepy Uncle Joe.
I doubt we'll see a second round of DJT, unless the Dems do something incredibly stupid. The Senate and House are both open questions.
Interesting fact: a professor who has an economic model for predicting elections accurately has Trump winning at 56+%. We'll see how that plays.
The last three Presidents who sought re-election won; three of the last four; four of the last five; four of the last six; five of the last seven (I am not counting Ford or LBJ as they were successors through the Vice-Presidency), and six of the last eight (which rejects Truman as a successor through the Vice-Presidency, and I cannot figure how to deal with FDR) got re-elected. That model gives a 75% chance to Trump.
OK, so this includes Presidents who got elected the first time just barely (Dubya, Trump, arguably Kennedy) and some that got elected the first time with 360 or more electoral votes. So rule out Obama, Clinton, the elder Bush, Reagan, and Eisenhower, and we have two of three Presidents elected with fewer than 315 electoral votes winning re-election. That of course has too small a sample size for drawing conclusions.
Economic model? Donald Trump's problems in polling have nothing to do with economics. If Donald Trump can convince enough people that a vote against him is a vote for a reprise of the Great Depression, then he wins. This said, economic stewardship did not give Obama a blow-out re-election in 2016. This also said, most people so identify with their economic position that they would support a fascist dictatorship complete with torture chambers and killing pits if it meant that they could get well paid for steady work without heavy lifting or having to create a business the hard way. (Unpleasant as it is to say, we would be a far better people if we had to experience something like the 1929-1932 economic meltdown and had to experience some economic humbling. We would see a rediscovery of small business to fit -- with much personal hardship -- niches opening as corporate behemoths loaded with bureaucratic elitists better at grabbing income than at serving customers implode).
I see a pattern in American history -- that unless a politician is a bailiwick of such extreme polarization that an opponent has absolutely no chance of winning, no politician gets away with the image of severe, pervasive, or blatant corruption. Corruption, in my opinion, will take President Trump down.
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - Kinser79 - 05-23-2019
The only problem with your theory on what takes Trump down is that the Democrats have been playing pin the corruption on the elephant for 3+ years already and have failed miserably to even find the corruption much less pin it anywhere. So one either must conclude that the corruption does not exist or Donald Trump is particularly resistant to having things pinned on him while at the same time being an super-uber-duper moron.
Occam's razor indicates that the far more likely case is that the tail (corruption) in this case simply doesn't exist. As I've said before, I'm actually surprised by just how clean the President is.
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - pbrower2a - 05-23-2019
(05-23-2019, 01:33 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: The only problem with your theory on what takes Trump down is that the Democrats have been playing pin the corruption on the elephant for 3+ years already and have failed miserably to even find the corruption much less pin it anywhere. So one either must conclude that the corruption does not exist or Donald Trump is particularly resistant to having things pinned on him while at the same time being an super-uber-duper moron.
Occam's razor indicates that the far more likely case is that the tail (corruption) in this case simply doesn't exist. As I've said before, I'm actually surprised by just how clean the President is.
Remove your blinders, please.
Have you even started to read the Mueller Report?
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - Kinser79 - 05-23-2019
I don't need to. Rachel Meddow has shut up about it for a reason. That reason is..drum roll please....it was a big fat nothing burger just like I said it would be two years ago.
Thanks for playing though PBR. Maybe next time you'll get to be a broken clock too.
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - pbrower2a - 05-23-2019
(05-23-2019, 01:47 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: I don't need to. Rachel Meddow has shut up about it for a reason. That reason is..drum roll please....it was a big fat nothing burger just like I said it would be two years ago.
Thanks for playing though PBR. Maybe next time you'll get to be a broken clock too.
There's nothing new to discuss about the Mueller Report, and there will be nothing new to discuss about it until something gets released from redaction.
RE: The "Unnecessariat" and the rise of Trumpism. - Kinser79 - 05-25-2019
(05-23-2019, 05:30 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:(05-23-2019, 01:47 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: I don't need to. Rachel Meddow has shut up about it for a reason. That reason is..drum roll please....it was a big fat nothing burger just like I said it would be two years ago.
Thanks for playing though PBR. Maybe next time you'll get to be a broken clock too.
There's nothing new to discuss about the Mueller Report, and there will be nothing new to discuss about it until something gets released from redaction.
Which probably won't happen since Mueller hasn't brought any indictments of note. The 4Th Amendment applies to the President and his staff also. And that is before we even get into all the private citizens that were
No evidence, no indictments and thanks to American Due Process no release of anything unredacted until all the actors therein are dead or not subject to prosecution. Like I said it was a big giant nothing burger.