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We Need Militant Nationalism - Printable Version +- Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory (http://generational-theory.com/forum) +-- Forum: Fourth Turning Forums (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-1.html) +--- Forum: Current Events (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-34.html) +---- Forum: General Political Discussion (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-15.html) +---- Thread: We Need Militant Nationalism (/thread-811.html) |
RE: We Need Militant Nationalism - Bob Butler 54 - 07-27-2017 (07-27-2017, 11:57 AM)David Horn Wrote: Business leaders try to act longsighted, but most are like Trump: tactical with a very short horizon. This is even more the case today, since the idea that we should embrace disruption means that a year is a strategic limit. I'll wager that the disruption meme dies entirely before the neo-Prophets are old enough to kill it .. which they will if it still exists by the time they get old enough to wield a little power. I'm for the most part with you, but the power elite have served one positive function. You can't hold a revolution without someone to revolt against. Humans strive for wealth and power, in one form or another. Making a dent in the most abusive helps, but doesn't end the conflict. Whether the elites are economic, military, religious, hereditary or whatever, the need for vigilance and strife isn't apt to go away. RE: We Need Militant Nationalism - Eric the Green - 08-01-2017 Flake is a flake, whatever he says. I give him that he is a man of principle, compared to his colleagues. But he voted with them. He votes to install Trump's alligators, as well as votes to repeal and replace, and most the other Trump and Republican programs and policies. RE: We Need Militant Nationalism - pbrower2a - 08-04-2017 (08-01-2017, 02:44 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: The new book from Jeff Flake appears to be worthwhile. Here's a CNN write up about it: The conservative politicians are beginning to recognize that the demagogue Donald Trump is a Frankenstein monster -- great at destroying what one might want destroyed, but ultimately unstoppable except through drastic means. Mitch McConnell is not the only one to misjudge him. President Trump may have been useful to conservatives in ensuring that Democrats are completely irrelevant to the political process for at least two years -- unless dissidents within the GOP find that they need Democrats to stop the damage. We may have to go back to the old politics in which the local judgment of a Congressional Representative was that he brought home the goodies that government could offer -- like farm subsidies in rural areas, urban aid in the slums, and highway projects. Such made partisanship and ideology much less relevant. That is far better than government by lobbyists. Conservatives might have decided that Obama had enough things in common in style and objectives. Maybe they could have decided that eight years of Obama wasn't the worst thing that could happen. His foreign policy was conventional. Maybe Republicans could have demanded concessions on ACA like the increase in taxes to make it viable (payroll taxes, maybe excise taxes on cancerweed and alcohol). Maybe they could have forced tort reform to reduce medical costs without reducing the quality of medical care. If conservative Republicans could survive Bill Clinton, then they could certainly survive Barack Obama. When disapproval ratings of the President go near or into the 60s, then the President is losing conservative support. RE: We Need Militant Nationalism - David Horn - 08-06-2017 Jeff Flake is a principled dinosaur. We should listen to him carefully, and heed his warnings, but following his lead is simply unwise. He harkens back to the Goldwater ideas, which were old when Goldwater pitched them. RE: We Need Militant Nationalism - Mikebert - 08-06-2017 Jeff Flake Wrote:8. If by 2017 the conservative bargain was to go along for the very bumpy ride because with congressional hegemony and the White House we had the numbers to achieve some long-held policy goals—even as we put at risk our institutions and our values—then it was a very real question whether any such policy victories wouldn't be Pyrrhic ones. Trump was perfectly willing to sign any healthcare legislation Congressional Republicans sent to him. Republicans had already passed legislation to repeal Obamacare, which Obama had vetoed. All they had to do was pass this exact same bill. It would have taken a week. They didn't do it because they knew if they did it would cost them their majority. That Obamacare could be repealed and replaced in a way that would have good outcomes for Republicans was a LIE. Quote:1. Who could blame the people who felt abandoned and ignored by the major parties for reaching in despair for a candidate who offered oversimplified answers to infinitely complex questions and managed to entertain them in the process? Besides the repeal Obamacare lie, there is the Iraq bundle of lies. Republican fiscal irresponsibility is legion yet they claim to be fiscal conservatives--another lie. Republicans SAY they are opposed to stimulus because it does not work, yet Bush enacted TWO stimulus programs and the TARP, so they lied about that too. And in each case, they were lying to their base, not the opposition. Can you blame GOP base voters for being very angry with their party? When in office what do they do? Pass tax cuts for high earners. What don’t they even try to do? Come up with conservative policies that work for base voters. None of this is Trump’s fault. Trump presented himself as a corrective, someone who would push policies (trade and immigration restrictions) Republican elites loathe, but otherwise act as a giant wrecking ball in Washington. He is making some progress on one of policy, and is doing a dandy job of wrecking the place. Quote:2. "It was we conservatives who, upon Obama's election, stated that our No. 1 priority was not advancing a conservative policy agenda but making Obama a one-term president—the corollary to this binary thinking being that his failure would be our success... I would point out that Obama's (perceived) failure WAS a Republican political success. Flake's conservatives were RIGHT. Quote:3. "To carry on in the spring of 2017 as if what was happening was anything approaching normalcy required a determined suspension of critical faculties. And tremendous powers of denial." What choice did they have? Suppose they replaced Trump with Pence, who is one of their own. Who can they blame when they fuck up horribly? At least with Trump they can blame Bannon, possibly forcing their base to support more Bush clones. Quote:4-7. I've been sympathetic to this impulse to denial, as one doesn't ever want to believe that the government of the United States has been made dysfunctional at the highest levels, especially by the actions of one's own party... (but) It would be like Noah saying, 'If I spent all my time obsessing about the coming flood, there would be little time for anything else.' Quote:Too often, we observe the unfolding drama along with the rest of the country, passively, all but saying, 'Someone should do something!' without seeming to realize that that someone is us. Quote:Meanwhile, the strange specter of an American president's seeming affection for strongmen and authoritarians created such a cognitive dissonance among my generation of conservatives—who had come of age under existential threat from the Soviet Union—that it was almost impossible to believe. Well after lying to them for decades, telling them up is down and black is white, how can you blame them for cognitive dissonance? Quote:7. "There was a time when the leadership of the Congress from both parties felt an institutional loyalty that would frequently create bonds across party lines in defense of congressional prerogatives in a unified front against the White House, regardless of the president's party. That was when most members of Congress had first been elected during the Democratic heyday of 1933-ca. 1974. By the early nineties this was no longer the case, and this loyalty dwindled as the old guard retired or died. RE: We Need Militant Nationalism - Bob Butler 54 - 09-03-2017 (08-24-2017, 12:41 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: BTW, it's probably obvious I am channeling my inner GI. Some of the GIs were bigots. The country was flawed, and many would often cling to the flaws. The GIs as a whole, however, stepped up and got things done in time. One problem with bigotry is that not everybody matches the stereotype that you'd anticipate. It is better to treat people as individuals than members of this class or that. What I'd say of the GIs, the best of them, given 20 20 hindsight, is they were willing and ready to solve problems. If that was American, I'm pro American too, but I'd still watch out about who really fits one's stereotype, and not flailing against people who don't deserve it. |