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+---- Thread: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory (/thread-401.html)
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Eric the Green - 03-07-2017
Oh well, I kinda got fact checked too that day
Re-checking my horoscope score research, it turned out that Hillary's score was too low to win. Oh well.....
But it's true, Trump was able to get votes by running on false issues like immigration where no problem really exists. But prejudice is always easy to pander to. As for the wars, I don't see Drump stopping any of them, do you? No, he appealed to the warmongers by saying he would smash ISIS including with American troops. So, Chris was wrong on that one too.
What are we left with? War on our environment. Removal of regulations on methane emissions at oil and gas fracking wells, and removal of mileage and smog standards on cars. Plus allowing coal to be dumped into rivers, and dirty oil to be pumped across them. His recipe for making American great again? Stop a non-existent illegal immigration problem, send troops to Iraq, waste money on military toys (which WILL be used to make America win again), let oil and coal and gas companies run wild in the name of more profits to trickle down, corrupt business deals with Russia and Iran, and tax breaks for toll roads. And lower taxes and bust the deficit. Make America great again. Hillary would have been 1000 times better.
Looking at that video, it seemed it was more like Rachel Maddow fact-checking Matthews.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - pbrower2a - 03-08-2017
Donald Trump did what every successful demagogue does -- rejecting rational discussion and going for visceral concerns. He overplayed dangers and let people assume that he had a secret solution. His secretive solution seems to be "All for the Few -- once and for all".
As the markets for most manufactured goods are saturated and when fossil fuels become a non-growth activity., the proletariat involved in manufacturing such things loses whatever economic clout it ever had. The basis of modern capitalism was that workers had to become a market for the goods that they produce in 'modern' factories so that they don't become the angry proles that Marx predicted. But what happens when the economic order can produce everything that people need easily?
Donald Trump recognized the despair among such people just as the fictional Music Man "Professor Harold Hill" recognized the boredom of kids and the concerns that parents of "River City" had for the lack of structure in their children's lives that might lead them to the pool hall. But "Professor Henry Hill" has a viable solution and doesn't even know that it can work. Donald Trump's solution is to inflame ethnic, religious, and cultural bigotry (which has never worked well anywhere) as an excuse for a reactionary ideology intend upon restoring the huge profit margins that once existed for energy manufactured goods in the expectation that such will create jobs needed for a prosperous America.
Yes, it will be a prosperous America -- but only for about 5% of the people. That is as raw a deal as there can be. Unlike the flim-flam of "Professor Henry Hill" which can turn out well, the Trump scam can only fail.
"Make America Great Again"... if you liked the 1920s you will like Donald Trump. But I have never known anyone (and don't expect to know anyone because such people are now centenarians if still living) who had any nostalgia for the 1920s even if they knew the Great Depression even better. For some reason The Great Gatsby never succeeds as a cinematic enterprise -- could it be that not-so-rich Americans don't love the idle rich?
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RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Odin - 03-08-2017
(03-07-2017, 11:34 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: Their releases chum the water for people like Rags, Maryposa, and some other "fight the power" types here. Such releases also inflame the Duginist Alt-Right, world wide.
I used to be one of those "fight the power" types until a few years ago when I noticed that a lot of the stuff was coming from RT and I started getting suspicious. When a lot of fringe-left types suddenly started bashing the US on Ukraine, using RT as a source, that confirmed my suspicions.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Ragnarök_62 - 03-08-2017
(03-08-2017, 12:24 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: Penalties for espionage need to be strengthened.
Moles should be strung up.
.... Yes, I agree. I think all folks spying on US citizens should be strung up. Remember and never forget the oath of office part:
"Protect and defend the US Constitution". That includes the 4th and 5th amendments. Bullish on lamp posts and ropes.
HANG 'EM HIGH!
That means anyone caught violating the oath of office gets the noose!
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Ragnarök_62 - 03-08-2017
(03-07-2017, 12:44 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: ...anti-Western fiend...
Well, what can I say, more CIA as a enemy of the state. State = US citizens. Fuck you CIA. You're fucking evil, fucking evil. I hope CIA agents just catch bird flu or something. CIA = The focus of EVIL of the universe.
And.... So it goes.... The Deep State is the focus of EVIL in this universe. So, CIA. Go fuck yourself. I hate you. Go to hell. You are far worse than anything than Russia has. I want y'all to die, die, die. Trump, instead of abolishing the EPA, abolish the CIA. It's just fucking evil. I hate the CIA. I want all agents to catch some bird flu and die. You are EVIL. Fuck you! Eat shit and die. You don't deserve the carbon you are using. Man, I hope the CIA goes to hell and burns. Eat shit and die.
XY_Mox, what do you think of these revelations? I like Russia far more than the CIA. The CIA needs to go to hell. They are the demons from hell. Yes, the demons from hell. I also want the US empire to just crash and burn. Fuck the EMPIRE. EMPIRES suck. EMPIRES are evil. Let's just have a reset, yes, a reset, I like Russia far more than the CIA. Abolish the CIA. Eat shit and die , CIA, eat shit and die. You have no benefit to me. Fuck , fuck fuck you CIA. Die, Die, Die. I'll even take IS killing CIA agents, 'cause they're the epitome of evil.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Galen - 03-09-2017
(03-08-2017, 08:40 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:
Sargon of Akkad does tend to get his facts straight and thus is worth listening to.
This is why I prefer a much smaller government with a foreign policy closer to Switzerland since it would be much harder to do these kinds of things. Lets face it, the CIA and NSA doing this kind of shit indicates more of a desire to control the population of then to deal with foreign threats. Think of what Stalin would have done with this which is why I do not have a smartphone.
I also avoid proprietary software because unless I control software on a device then someone else controls the device. While Richard Stallman is an economic illiterate but on the issue of free software and privacy time has shown that he is largely correct on that issue.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Galen - 03-09-2017
Ironically, we have a Boomer blaming the Millies for the leaks at the CIA. Perhaps the Millie tendency put everything in public view may save us from the surveillance state which is about the most ironic out come possible.
One thing this does is expose the malevolent incompetence of the government for all to see which I consider to be a very good thing.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - pbrower2a - 03-09-2017
(03-09-2017, 04:35 AM)Galen Wrote:(03-08-2017, 08:40 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:
Sargon of Akkad does tend to get his facts straight and thus is worth listening to.
And what if I choose to heed King Arthur, Merlin, or "William Tell"?
Quote:This is why I prefer a much smaller government with a foreign policy closer to Switzerland since it would be much harder to do these kinds of things. Lets face it, the CIA and NSA doing this kind of shit indicates more of a desire to control the population of then to deal with foreign threats. Think of what Stalin would have done with this which is why I do not have a smartphone.
Maybe you would be happier if the United States were broken up into entities similar to Switzerland in population and you could choose which one in which to live. There are parts of America that would become similar to Switzerland in critical ways, like having a linguistic divide. Of course, there are parts of America that cannot have the living standard, let alone scenery, of Switzerland.
"If Stalin had had this power"... anachronism of the 'alternative history' genre of science fiction. Just imagine how much more power Stalin would have had had computers been available.
[/quote]
Quote:[quote pid='22622' dateline='1489052116']
I also avoid proprietary software because unless I control software on a device then someone else controls the device. While Richard Stallman is an economic illiterate but on the issue of free software and privacy time has shown that he is largely correct on that issue.
[/quote]
I don't put my picture on Facebook.
If you do not trust proprietary software, then you do not trust free enterprise.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Odin - 03-09-2017
Galen praising a high school drop-out for being a genius who had his facts straight?
Sargon is a good example of how an idiot with a nice-sounding British accent can fool people over here into thinking he's smart.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - David Horn - 03-09-2017
(03-09-2017, 10:27 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: If you do not trust proprietary software, then you do not trust free enterprise.
Great point, and quote of the day.
But it's even more insidious than that. There's a story in the NY Times by Charles Duhigg where he argues that Trump is just a political version of a Silicon Valley start-up. In other words, he plays to a theme that the young accept easily. Why trust Uber or Google or Facebook? Because the young relate to their disruptive model. Government, on the other hand, is slow and clunky. Who wants that!
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Galen - 03-09-2017
(03-09-2017, 10:27 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: If you do not trust proprietary software, then you do not trust free enterprise.
You do realize that there are companies that actually make money from free software. Red Hat comes to mind as the most prominent company. Come to think of it there is a sizeable number of people who get paid for writing and maintaining free software. So even by your rather simplistic view of free market economics free software is not a statement against free enterprise. In the face of Microsoft being generally incompetent when it comes to security and actively colluding with the NSA. Then there is the huge amount of data that Windows 10 collects and the user can not turn it off. I am pretty sure Apple isn't much better.
I am simply exercising my right to choose not to use certain products.
A group of programmers getting together to write software to serve their needs along with the needs of other users is as much a part of the free market as any company is. While it is perfectly possible to make money from free software it is not necessary condition for the participants of this interaction to benefit from it.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Odin - 03-10-2017
A GOP Congressman Just Spent 6 Minutes Defending Vladimir Putin
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - SomeGuy - 03-10-2017
(03-10-2017, 05:13 PM)Odin Wrote: A GOP Congressman Just Spent 6 Minutes Defending Vladimir Putin
Who is "Literally Hitler"!
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Eric the Green - 03-10-2017
Senate Intel Committee wants to call Christopher Steele, author of the infamous dossier on Trump and Russia. Maybe?? Or is it up to Rachel and Co., because our government is in the hands of the people being investigated?
"He's Alive!"
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Odin - 03-10-2017
(03-10-2017, 05:25 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:(03-10-2017, 05:13 PM)Odin Wrote: A GOP Congressman Just Spent 6 Minutes Defending Vladimir Putin
Who is "Literally Hitler"!
Maybe not LITERALLY Hitler, but definitely a threat to our European allies and chomping at the bit to re-create a right-wing version of the old Warsaw Pact.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - SomeGuy - 03-10-2017
Quote:Maybe not LITERALLY Hitler,
MAYBE not LITERALLY HITLER? Does he have a mustache? Did he serve in WWI? Is he Austrian?
The word LITERALLY is not available for figurative use.
Quote:but definitely a threat to our European allies and chomping at the bit to re-create a right-wing version of the old Warsaw Pact.
A "right-wing Warsaw Pact"? With whom? Which "allies" is he threatening?
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Ragnarök_62 - 03-10-2017
(03-10-2017, 09:31 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:Quote:Maybe not LITERALLY Hitler,
MAYBE not LITERALLY HITLER? Does he have a mustache? Did he serve in WWI? Is he Austrian?
The word LITERALLY is not available for figurative use.
Quote:but definitely a threat to our European allies and chomping at the bit to re-create a right-wing version of the old Warsaw Pact.
A "right-wing Warsaw Pact"? With whom? Which "allies" is he threatening?
I think it's assorted members in NATO. "Allies" = "deadbeat countries the US protects". It's a matter of choice actually. The US has that choice.
1. Freeloading nations.
2. Freelancing nations.
There is no threat. There's only a choice of either 1 or 2.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Odin - 03-10-2017
(03-10-2017, 09:31 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:Quote:Maybe not LITERALLY Hitler,
MAYBE not LITERALLY HITLER? Does he have a mustache? Did he serve in WWI? Is he Austrian?
The word LITERALLY is not available for figurative use.
Quote:but definitely a threat to our European allies and chomping at the bit to re-create a right-wing version of the old Warsaw Pact.
A "right-wing Warsaw Pact"? With whom? Which "allies" is he threatening?
Well, he'd obviously be happy with NATO and the EU falling apart so he can go and take over Ukraine and the Baltics at the very least.
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - Ragnarök_62 - 03-10-2017
(03-09-2017, 04:24 PM)Galen Wrote:(03-09-2017, 10:27 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: If you do not trust proprietary software, then you do not trust free enterprise.
You do realize that there are companies that actually make money from free software. Red Hat comes to mind as the most prominent company. Come to think of it there is a sizeable number of people who get paid for writing and maintaining free software. So even by your rather simplistic view of free market economics free software is not a statement against free enterprise. In the face of Microsoft being generally incompetent when it comes to security and actively colluding with the NSA. Then there is the huge amount of data that Windows 10 collects and the user can not turn it off. I am pretty sure Apple isn't much better.
I am simply exercising my right to choose not to use certain products.
A group of programmers getting together to write software to serve their needs along with the needs of other users is as much a part of the free market as any company is. While it is perfectly possible to make money from free software it is not necessary condition for the participants of this interaction to benefit from it.
Uh, which nation has a free market? It's not the US. The US is:
![[Image: 20170310_crony.jpg]](http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/fp_thumb/images/user3303/imageroot/20170310_crony.jpg)
Gilded Age 2.0
RE: If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory - SomeGuy - 03-10-2017
NATO has no obligations to Ukraine, where he hasn't even bothered to annex the provinces of Lugansk and Donetsk. I imagine trying to digest the whole country, particularly the Galician part, would be a serious undertaking.
As for the Baltics, realistically, NATO has already determined that they are essentially indefensible if Russia made a serious attempt, with their capitals falling within a couple of days, far faster than our forces could mobilize and deploy.
Whaddya want to do? Threaten nuclear war over Riga? Britain's guarantee of Belgian neutrality would seem cheap by comparison.