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Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - pbrower2a - 05-21-2016
Thread intended to expose the illicit import and release of dangerous and destructive life forms. A hint: unless you are an expert animal-keeper and you are to keep a large predator with power, speed, agility, strength, cunning, voracity, and a nasty bite, then make sure that it is a dog.
RE: Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - pbrower2a - 05-21-2016
If you’ve thought that crocodiles in Florida were looking a little bigger and uh, hungrier for people lately, you may be onto something.
Three reptiles captured between 2000 and 2014 in South Florida were Nile crocodiles, University of Florida researchers confirm in a report published in April in the Journal of Herpetological Conservation and Biology.
Nile crocodiles, native to Africa, can reach 20 feet in length and weigh up to 1,650 pounds, according to National Geographic. An average length and weight, however, is more like 16 feet and 500 pounds. For comparison, American crocodiles can also reach up to 20 feet in length, but “rarely” get longer than 14 feet in the wild, according to the National Park Service.
And while American crocodiles are reclusive and typically shy away from people, Nile crocodiles have a rep for chowing down on humans.
And don’t take too much comfort in the fact that researchers only found three of them.
“The odds that the few of us who study Florida reptiles have found all of the Nile crocs out there is probably unlikely,” herpetology collections manager at the Florida Museum of Natural History said in a University of Florida news release.
So how the heck did these potentially human-flesh-hungry crocs get to the wilds of Florida? Dumb humans, most likely. Plenty of the crocodiles have been imported into the U.S. not only to live at places like zoos and Disney’s Animal Kingdom, but also for the exotic pet trade (because a person-eating, 20-foot croc sounds like a great pet!). Researchers suspect those “pets” ended up in the wild, either by escaping, or from people releasing them.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/florida-nile-crocodile_us_573f7902e4b0613b512a5d3d
RE: Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - Kinser79 - 05-21-2016
Those Nile Crocs are not exactly new. They escaped from the Miami zoo during Hurricane Andrew and migrated down to the Glades. There is no mystery for anyone whose lived in Florida any length of time to know why Nile crocs showed up.
Zoo + Category 5 hurricane = Nile Crocs in the glades.
As for exotic reptiles from the pet trade ending up places they don't belong...look no further than the Burmese Python epidemic. I killed three this past year. I'm unsure if they are edible, but they don't belong in my hunting swamp.
RE: Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - pbrower2a - 05-21-2016
(05-21-2016, 12:27 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Those Nile Crocs are not exactly new. They escaped from the Miami zoo during Hurricane Andrew and migrated down to the Glades. There is no mystery for anyone whose lived in Florida any length of time to know why Nile crocs showed up.
Zoo + Category 5 hurricane = Nile Crocs in the glades.
As for exotic reptiles from the pet trade ending up places they don't belong...look no further than the Burmese Python epidemic. I killed three this past year. I'm unsure if they are edible, but they don't belong in my hunting swamp.
Good update. Nile crocs and Burmese pythons do not belong in Florida. The American alligator, the Florida crocodile, the black bear, and the Florida panther are all dangerous enough -- and native to Florida.
RE: Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - Kinser79 - 05-21-2016
While Nile Crocs are agressive toward humans, Burmese pythons are not particularly interested in humans. As for the dangers of the American Alligator, Florida Croc, Black Bear and Florida Panther a good way to avoid being killed by them is to follow this radical policy...leave them the hell alone. I've encountered all four and have not been mauled by any because I strictly followed the policy of leaving them alone.
This policy also works on venomous snakes too--of which Florida has 6 native species, all of them pit vipers excluding the coral snake (which is really reclusive--most snakes killed are nonvenomous look a likes).
RE: Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - pbrower2a - 05-21-2016
(05-21-2016, 08:44 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: While Nile Crocs are agressive toward humans, Burmese pythons are not particularly interested in humans. As for the dangers of the American Alligator, Florida Croc, Black Bear and Florida Panther a good way to avoid being killed by them is to follow this radical policy...leave them the hell alone. I've encountered all four and have not been mauled by any because I strictly followed the policy of leaving them alone.
This policy also works on venomous snakes too--of which Florida has 6 native species, all of them pit vipers excluding the coral snake (which is really reclusive--most snakes killed are nonvenomous look a likes).
That's the right way to deal with any potentially-dangerous animal, including large herbivores.
RE: Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - Ragnarök_62 - 05-21-2016
(05-21-2016, 06:39 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Thread intended to expose the illicit import and release of dangerous and destructive life forms. A hint: unless you are an expert animal-keeper and you are to keep a large predator with power, speed, agility, strength, cunning, voracity, and a nasty bite, then make sure that it is a dog.
I have no idea why someone would like to have some sort of apex predator as a "pet". Predators by definition eat other animals and a lot would gladly put humans on the menu.
Dogs: -> Canis Lupus Familiaris . Dogs are just domesticated wolves. The key is domesticated, which means dogs, unlike their wild brethren Canis Lupus. The dog , like other domesticated animals has been adapted to live with humans. I wouldn't want a wolf as a pet! The above [power,speed,agility,strength,etc.] are why dogs make excellent deterrents to burglars/thieves. Shoot, my gentle black lab is plenty strong, but he's a gentle giant.
RE: Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - Kinser79 - 05-22-2016
Sorry large herbivores are food generally speaking. Humans are an apex predator get used to it. They are also the only animal I actually fear. Those that slither, fly, crawl or creep on four legs are relatively harmless if you leave them alone. Unless you want to be a malnutrition ass vegetablarian or something equally disgusting.
(05-21-2016, 10:42 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:(05-21-2016, 06:39 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Thread intended to expose the illicit import and release of dangerous and destructive life forms. A hint: unless you are an expert animal-keeper and you are to keep a large predator with power, speed, agility, strength, cunning, voracity, and a nasty bite, then make sure that it is a dog.
I have no idea why someone would like to have some sort of apex predator as a "pet". Predators by definition eat other animals and a lot would gladly put humans on the menu.
Dogs: -> Canis Lupus Familiaris . Dogs are just domesticated wolves. The key is domesticated, which means dogs, unlike their wild brethren Canis Lupus. The dog , like other domesticated animals has been adapted to live with humans. I wouldn't want a wolf as a pet! The above [power,speed,agility,strength,etc.] are why dogs make excellent deterrents to burglars/thieves. Shoot, my gentle black lab is plenty strong, but he's a gentle giant.
When I was much younger we had a Siberian husky. I managed to tie him to an old sled like one would use to go down a hill and have him pull the wood for the wood burning stove. Dogs have been literally selected over successive generations by man to follow our direction as it didn't take much to train him to pull the sled with wood on it once I got him calmed down.
RE: Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - pbrower2a - 05-23-2016
Giant herbivores can kill us, too, and they have even more reason to kill us because they recognize us as dangerous predators. So it is with deer, elk, Cape buffalo, zebra, rhinos, hippos, and elephants. A large carnivore has the choice to take the risks of killing us as prey or avoid us altogether.
Elephants may be even more dangerous than the Big Cats. They have us figured out, and it isn't a relationship of trust. Elephants can crush, kick, impale, or throw us.
RE: Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - Kinser79 - 05-24-2016
(05-23-2016, 11:06 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Giant herbivores can kill us, too, and they have even more reason to kill us because they recognize us as dangerous predators. So it is with deer, elk, Cape buffalo, zebra, rhinos, hippos, and elephants. A large carnivore has the choice to take the risks of killing us as prey or avoid us altogether.
Elephants may be even more dangerous than the Big Cats. They have us figured out, and it isn't a relationship of trust. Elephants can crush, kick, impale, or throw us.
While true...this is completely ignoring two facts. 1. Humans have the intellectual capacity to develop tools to compensate for our physical weaknesses--IE how we became apex predators. 2. If one does not have the tools to compensate for physical weakness one can avoid the animals as these large herbivores are not going to seek out contact with apex predators.
Not everyone is Steve Irwin, most humans have enough sense to not go out of their way to piss off animals. For the record I'm glad he's dead. To bad he didn't manage to not reproduce, we could have used with less of that in the gene pool.
Now I know that you're terrified of all animals, seriously I think Charlotte (the only cat I've seen who likes to pretend she's a fur stole) would scare the shit out of you. She may do something terrible like rubbing herself on your leg (assuming I'd even let you into my house).
RE: Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - Odin - 05-24-2016
(05-24-2016, 01:04 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: Not everyone is Steve Irwin, most humans have enough sense to not go out of their way to piss off animals. For the record I'm glad he's dead. To bad he didn't manage to not reproduce, we could have used with less of that in the gene pool.
Jesus Christ, for all your horrific, disgusting statements, this is probably the worst.
RE: Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - pbrower2a - 05-24-2016
(05-24-2016, 07:08 AM)Odin Wrote:(05-24-2016, 01:04 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: Not everyone is Steve Irwin, most humans have enough sense to not go out of their way to piss off animals. For the record I'm glad he's dead. To bad he didn't manage to not reproduce, we could have used with less of that in the gene pool.
Jesus Christ, for all your horrific, disgusting statements, this is probably the worst.
Steve Irwin was a Reactive at his best. He took risks, but he knew where to stop. He studied crocodile behavior very well, and he knew how far he could go in teasing them. He knew that he could outrun them once he was on land. He would never have so teased a bear, Big Cat, hyena, or canid. Nice doggy? That's about the last animal that you want as an enemy, because there usually are multiple dogs. You can't outrun a dog.
I was doing Census work one day, and I came to a house around noon. The people weren't there, but four medium-sized dogs (I forget the breed, but let's say "Doberman" or "Rottweiler") were there. As I approached the door, the dogs charged the metal door. I wanted out of there before the latch broke. I got to the car and drove away. I did not run, because I well know the predatory instinct of a dog. Never run from a dog.
Four 80-pound Dobermans might as well be one 320-pound tiger if they intend to hurt one, the message that they delivered by charging the door. Dogs really are borderline man-eaters, and all that keeps a very large leopard-sized dog from being a man-eater is its good behavior. All that keeps a pack of cocker spaniels from making a meal out of you is good behavior. Dogs are among the most fearless and aggressive creatures around. You behave yourself around a dog or get hurt badly. Breaking into a house through a dog door if the dog is there is about as dangerous as entering the turf of a tiger which at the least has some fear of us.
Steve Irwin was very good at assessing risks, and if he quit getting away from the crocodiles by the margins that he got away by he was going to give up that part of his shtick. That is how Reactives with any wisdom operate. His death came as a freak accident. The sting of a sting ray is rarely fatal because it almost never strikes a vital organ doing irreversible damage, but this sting got to his heart. He was more likely to die in an airline crash or vehicle accident than of an animal attack of any kind. Stingrays have caused far fewer human deaths than have dogs.
I know of one Reactive who broke into a house through the tiger door -- excuse me, the dog door. Mercifully for him the dog was away. But that stupid fellow was a doper, someone who due to his dope habit showed his incompetence at assessing real risks of his behaviors.
He stayed clear of venomous snakes and jellyfish. He avoided motorcycles which really are dangerous. He did not do rock climbing (a dangerous activity in itself, even without the venomous snakes that one might encounter). When he had the fatal encounter with the stingray he was with the Cousteau group, a very cautious group of explorers. Irwin may have had a close call with a crocodile and decided to give up encounters with those. He may have been losing his foot speed, as is typical of an athlete. Steve Irwin was very much an athlete as well as a biologist and showman. Athleticism declines in one's thirties, and he may have been adapting to that by becoming more of a biologist and less of a dare-devil.
...Kinser can be rhetorically cruel. Just look at his politics here and on the old T4T forums.
RE: Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - Kinser79 - 05-27-2016
(05-24-2016, 07:08 AM)Odin Wrote:(05-24-2016, 01:04 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: Not everyone is Steve Irwin, most humans have enough sense to not go out of their way to piss off animals. For the record I'm glad he's dead. To bad he didn't manage to not reproduce, we could have used with less of that in the gene pool.
Jesus Christ, for all your horrific, disgusting statements, this is probably the worst.
Yes because being opposed to cruelty to animals is the worst thing I've ever been accused of.
I stand by my lament that he can't get a Darwin Award for taking his genes out of the pool. Perhaps if he didn't decide to fuck with that ray it wouldn't have had to defend itself.
RE: Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - Kinser79 - 05-27-2016
(05-24-2016, 10:04 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: <snip> bullshit </snip>
...Kinser can be rhetorically cruel. Just look at his politics here and on the old T4T forums.
I wouldn't use the word cruel. Crude would be a better adjective. Honestly though you people run around like Steve Irwin was some sort of zoological genius. No he was someone who went out of his way to piss off animals for the entertainment of morons, and most lapped it right up because of his outrageous Australian accent.
I think South Park's treatment of him is spot on.
RE: Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - Kinser79 - 05-27-2016
(05-24-2016, 10:31 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: I've got my own personal hot list. Things that make me go "F$%&!"
1) Broom
2) Algerian Ivy
3) European Perennial Wild Grasses
4) Argentine Ants
I would add fire ants and Africanized (aka killer) bees to that list, of which Florida has both. I have the former but not the latter on my property.
RE: Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - pbrower2a - 05-27-2016
(05-27-2016, 08:08 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:(05-24-2016, 07:08 AM)Odin Wrote:(05-24-2016, 01:04 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: Not everyone is Steve Irwin, most humans have enough sense to not go out of their way to piss off animals. For the record I'm glad he's dead. To bad he didn't manage to not reproduce, we could have used with less of that in the gene pool.
Jesus Christ, for all your horrific, disgusting statements, this is probably the worst.
Yes because being opposed to cruelty to animals is the worst thing I've ever been accused of.
I stand by my lament that he can't get a Darwin Award for taking his genes out of the pool. Perhaps if he didn't decide to fuck with that ray it wouldn't have had to defend itself.
Unforeseeable accidents do not qualify for the Darwin Awards. Doing something stupid that any reasonable person could see could get one killed, like trying to steal copper wire -- live wire, that is, which means a dead vandal. Or using a welding torch on a container that holds (or recently held, but still has fumes of) a flammable liquid. Making a home-made firearm that misfires and kills the user could get one a Darwin Award. Confusing a an explosive, flammable, or extremely-toxic substance with something innocuous and getting killed might qualify. Using liquor as an enema qualified. Swimming with crocodiles qualified.
Scientific research often has its risks. Volcanology is obvious enough. Astronomy is surprisingly dangerous... especially if one drives along the dangerous mountain roads that lead to and from the observatories on mountaintops. But these are calculated risks, and they don't qualify.
I can think of sea creatures that I would fear much more than sting rays -- various sharks, the saltwater crocodile, the leopard seal, dolphins (they can ram one to death), and all sorts of venomous creatures.
RE: Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - Kinser79 - 05-27-2016
(05-27-2016, 09:03 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Unforeseeable accidents do not qualify for the Darwin Awards.
So you're telling me that messing about with a fish with a barb on its tail that it can potentially kill you with was an unforeseeable accident? If so that blows your theory that he "knew what he was doing" right out of water. The man intentionally molested a damn fish and it retaliated killing him. I'm actually surprised some other creature hadn't done it already. Salties are nasty creatures I'm told.
Quote: Doing something stupid that any reasonable person could see could get one killed, like trying to steal copper wire -- live wire, that is, which means a dead vandal. Or using a welding torch on a container that holds (or recently held, but still has fumes of) a flammable liquid. Making a home-made firearm that misfires and kills the user could get one a Darwin Award. Confusing a an explosive, flammable, or extremely-toxic substance with something innocuous and getting killed might qualify. Using liquor as an enema qualified. Swimming with crocodiles qualified.
Yes and molesting dangerous animals can get one killed and is incredibly stupid. The only legitimate excuse for it would be research which I assure you he was not doing either on his inane tee-vee show or while he was at the beach.
Quote:Scientific research often has its risks. Volcanology is obvious enough. Astronomy is surprisingly dangerous... especially if one drives along the dangerous mountain roads that lead to and from the observatories on mountaintops. But these are calculated risks, and they don't qualify.
Collecting lava samples from an erupting volcano could yield valuable information. Wrestling crocs for the entertainment of the masses will not. It isn't even that good as far as entertainment goes.
An astronomer being involved in a car crash on his way to the observatory is a tragic accident. Molesting sting rays while knowing that they are dangerous animals (and bear in mind I take my kid surfing so I'm aware of the dangers in the ocean--not to mention live near the Shark Bite Capitol of the World) is asking for trouble. Being bitten by a shark while surfing is however a calculated risk. Sharks often view humans as potential pray because we swim sort of like injured fish. Most such bites are fortunately bump, bite, spits. We apparently aren't that appetizing to them. I would have no sympathy for someone who went out, chummed up the water and then decided to swim with them either. Under the right conditions any animal will attack you. Usually when they do it is the HUMAN'S fault that the animal did.
Why? Because the human is supposed to know better. The animal is either merely trying to feed, or defend itself, its mate or its territory.
Quote:I can think of sea creatures that I would fear much more than sting rays -- various sharks, the saltwater crocodile, the leopard seal, dolphins (they can ram one to death), and all sorts of venomous creatures.
The most dangerous animal in the world's oceans is actually a jellyfish. I don't play with those because I'm not a moron.
Rays are quite dangerous. They have some pretty nasty teeth, don't care to be stepped on and most have some really sharp spines that can severely injure or even kill you if they hit you in the right location. And for the record I myself have been bitten by a shark. It was a nurse shark that was resting in a slue before the second sandbar where the big waves are. I stepped on it I think, as they are mostly bottom dwellers and primarily nocturnal. Given the bite size I'd say it was only about 2ft long so it was a baby.
For the record nurse sharks are not particularly aggressive toward humans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurse_shark
RE: Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - pbrower2a - 05-28-2016
The second-most dangerous animal to humans (look in the mirror to see the most dangerous species) is reputedly the box jellyfish, one of the most venomous creatures to exist. It has such strong venom suitable for a quick paralysis of its victim so that it can subdue a fish that could otherwise swim off quickly or a shrimp strong enough that it could rip the jellyfish apart with one kick. It's also nearly invisible, so victims often never see it.
The fatal incident:
On 4 September 2006 Irwin was on location at Batt Reef, near Port Douglas, Queensland, taking part in the production of the documentary series Ocean's Deadliest. During a lull in filming caused by inclement weather, Irwin decided to snorkel in shallow waters while being filmed in an effort to provide footage for his daughter's television programme.
While swimming in chest-deep water, Irwin approached a stingray with an approximate span of two metres (6.5 ft) from the rear, in order to film it swimming away.
According to the incident's only witness, “All of a sudden [the stingray] propped on its front and started stabbing wildly with its tail. Hundreds of strikes in a few seconds”. Irwin initially believed he only had a punctured lung; the stingray's barb pierced his heart, causing him to bleed to death.[80][81] The stingray's behaviour appeared to have been a defensive response to being boxed in. Crew members aboard Irwin's boat administered CPR and rushed him to shore. Medical staff pronounced him dead at the scene.[82][83][84]
Irwin's death is believed to be the only fatality from a stingray ever captured on video.[85]
Footage of the incident was viewed by Queensland state police as part their mandatory investigations. All copies of the footage were then destroyed at the behest of Irwin's family.[86][87][88][89][90] Production was completed on Ocean's Deadliest, which was broadcast in the US on the Discovery Channel on 21 January 2007. The documentary was completed with footage shot in the weeks following the accident, but without including any mention of Irwin's accidental death.[91][92]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Irwin#Death
RE: Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - Kinser79 - 05-28-2016
(05-28-2016, 11:12 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: The second-most dangerous animal to humans (look in the mirror to see the most dangerous species) is reputedly the box jellyfish, one of the most venomous creatures to exist. It has such strong venom suitable for a quick paralysis of its victim so that it can subdue a fish that could otherwise swim off quickly or a shrimp strong enough that it could rip the jellyfish apart with one kick. It's also nearly invisible, so victims often never see it.
The fatal incident:
On 4 September 2006 Irwin was on location at Batt Reef, near Port Douglas, Queensland, taking part in the production of the documentary series Ocean's Deadliest. During a lull in filming caused by inclement weather, Irwin decided to snorkel in shallow waters while being filmed in an effort to provide footage for his daughter's television programme.
While swimming in chest-deep water, Irwin approached a stingray with an approximate span of two metres (6.5 ft) from the rear, in order to film it swimming away.
According to the incident's only witness, “All of a sudden [the stingray] propped on its front and started stabbing wildly with its tail. Hundreds of strikes in a few seconds”. Irwin initially believed he only had a punctured lung; the stingray's barb pierced his heart, causing him to bleed to death.[80][81] The stingray's behaviour appeared to have been a defensive response to being boxed in. Crew members aboard Irwin's boat administered CPR and rushed him to shore. Medical staff pronounced him dead at the scene.[82][83][84]
Irwin's death is believed to be the only fatality from a stingray ever captured on video.[85]
Footage of the incident was viewed by Queensland state police as part their mandatory investigations. All copies of the footage were then destroyed at the behest of Irwin's family.[86][87][88][89][90] Production was completed on Ocean's Deadliest, which was broadcast in the US on the Discovery Channel on 21 January 2007. The documentary was completed with footage shot in the weeks following the accident, but without including any mention of Irwin's accidental death.[91][92]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Irwin#Death
You just proved my point. Irwin molested a fish, and the fish retaliated killing him. In short he died for being stupid. Personally I think when stupid people are taken out of circulation it is a net positive for the species.
RE: Importation of inapt life forms as ecological disaster - Kinser79 - 05-29-2016
(05-28-2016, 10:32 PM)taramarie Wrote: and i say he trolls just for kicks because i hope that he is not really that cold hearted. I could be wrong though.
My word choice is intentionally trolly because I love to trigger some of the folks here. Watching them freak out is hilarious. Also I enjoy some good Schadenfreude.
That being said, I do not mourn Irwin's passing, and honestly thought the whole thing with him was overblown. If you mess with enough dangerous animals one of them will get you eventually. And one did. I still think he deserved a Darwin Award because he was supposed to have known better.
http://www.darwinawards.com/rules/