(10-26-2016, 02:56 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Like all other demagogues, Donald Trump is all things to all people. There's nothing liberal about him. There's nothing Christian about him. We liberals are the first to recognize him for the political fraud that he is, and he has broken with us forever. He wants us irrelevant forever. Conservative Christians will find out how un-Christian he is should he be elected, and very fast.

I would far prefer to see Mitt Romney getting a Reagan-1984 win of re-election than see Donald Trump get elected barely.

America really needs some sane, humane conservatism, the sort that recognizes that the common man needs something worthy of conserving. Like bank accounts and low-cost undergraduate education.  That sane conservatism promotes small-scale entrepreneurialism with tax laws that favor small-scale business over vertically-integrated, monopolized trusts and cartels. That sane conservatism promotes high-quality education that keeps promotes rational thought and selfless conscience that allows people to recognize demagogues like Donald Trump for the untrustworthy liars that they are instead of wish-fulfillment.

Take nothing for granted. Donald Trump tells us that the Democrats will rig the 2016 Presidential election. That should warn all of us of ho0w he intends to be elected. He will need to rig the election to become President.

(10-26-2016, 12:55 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-26-2016, 10:56 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: It took me a second to notice how ridiculous this is:

Did he consult Rachel Dolezal to find out how to add some black people to the crowd? You know -- fake tans, cafe-au-lait to teak, and fake Afros?

(10-27-2016, 01:23 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: The biggest liar in US political history. A chronicle of his third debate lies.

(10-27-2016, 08:02 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Gingrich in his recent "interview" with Kelly kept pushing the fact that Americans live in two different realities.  In specific, in Gingrich's reality Trump is doing pretty good in the polls.  I've been saying similar things about partisans being able to live in cocoons,  finding news outlets and support groups who will tell one only what one wants to hear.  If one wants to deceive one's self, the tools are readily available.

This does not by any means imply that all cocoons are equal in merit.  The above is a pretty good review of the validity of Trump's reality.

(11-04-2016, 11:42 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:



In case anyone has any residual  doubt about whether to vote for Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton.

1. Deceit
2. Exploitative behavior
3. Lack of empathy
4. Exaggerated self-importance
5. Lack of remorse about wrong-doing
6. Recklessness
7. Superficial charm
8. Sexual predation
9. Extreme hypocrisy
10. Weakness of bonds with others

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

(11-04-2016, 06:32 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-04-2016, 06:15 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(11-04-2016, 11:42 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: In case anyone has any residual  doubt about whether to vote for Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton.

1. Deceit
2. Exploitative behavior
3. Lack of empathy
4. Exaggerated self-importance
5. Lack of remorse about wrong-doing
6. Recklessness
7. Superficial charm
8. Sexual predation
9. Extreme hypocrisy
10. Weakness of bonds with others

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

One of my most oft repeated points about world views and values is how groups of people can live in alternate realities.  They can be thoroughly invested in entirely different ways of perceiving the world, quite sincerely, and be incapable of questioning their own beliefs or accepting facts that conflict with their beliefs.  I have favorite examples... conservatives encountering climate science and fundamentalists encountering evolution.  Whole branches of science are thrown out or disparaged.  The notion that Trump is a speaker of truth seems a more extreme example.

To a great extent you have to say this is human.  Humans have cultures, they buy into their cultures, and it is hard for anyone to honestly evaluate or cast aside deeply held beliefs.  The Establishment Right and Establishment Republican Media have been selling a good size part of the population on small government, low taxes and the southern strategy for decades.  At this point, the Establishment Right has failed to deliver on their policies and promises for decades.  Bush 43 was an utter failure.  Still, the deplorable wing of the Republican Base would rather blame the Establishment Republican politicians for Bush 43's failures and would rather not blame the policies that led to the failures.  Thus, the door has been left open for Trump to make the same old promises only more so to the same old base.

While a lot of bluer folk trust neither the promises nor the man who would perhaps implement them.

But I'm starting to look at the Republican media echo chamber as a grave problem.  They allow and encourage the alternate right echo chamber.  They make it possible for those into the Red world view to totally immerse themselves in the Red world view, to view everything Trump says as True, and everything that conflicts with their beliefs as the result of a corrupt right wing fixed rigged media establishment.  That picket line of sincerity is the essence of the divided and dysfunctional America.

In the days of Morrow and Cronkite there was a sense of duty and responsibility in reporting the news.  This seems to have been lost, replaced by a notion that ratings can be boosted by telling a certain targeted audience what they want to hear.  Faux News and the Alt Right media outlets are clearly visible as biased sources, assuming one has a Blue world view, assuming one isn't living inside of said alternate reality.

There are a lot of fact checking organizations around, and fact checking articles are regular features of many media outlets.  I believe one thing we have to do to break America out of its divided dysfunctional funk is to encourage and demand a lot more reality from our news media.  

It is far too easy for humans to live in distorted alternate realities created to manipulate the sheeple for power, profit and ratings.  I have been railing against partisan thinking by all sorts of partisans on this forum.  I'm equally dubious about red, blue, green, fundamentalist, marxist and restorationist partisans.  Heck, I was even angry at Virgil Saari for wanting to bring back the Stuart dynasty.  All will repeat their doctrines and refuse to listen and refuse to admit that they are not listening.  In this we fans of turning theory are little different from the sheeple of the Republican base. 

Just not sure what can be done with it.  Technology has given us many cable channels and more web pages.  All the editors and writers want a market share.  The easiest way go get such a share is to tell some group what they want to hear.  At some point the spin becomes propaganda, and the propaganda becomes full of lies.  This isn't entirely new.  It can't all be blamed on many cable TV channels and the Internet.  Still, the problem is getting worse.

I used to trust Walter Cronkite.  Everybody used to trust Walter Cronkite.  He's gone.  Everything he stood for is gone.

I wholeheartedly agree. You know I never had to even think about it till I was warned that media warps the truth in America. It came as a shock to me. Media here just reports on the news and does not make everything political.

(11-05-2016, 12:28 AM)taramarie Wrote: Has news in America always been like this? Always biased one way or another I mean.

(11-05-2016, 01:47 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-05-2016, 01:31 AM)Galen Wrote:

(11-05-2016, 12:28 AM)taramarie Wrote: Has news in America always been like this? Always biased one way or another I mean.

It has always been biased, including the during the days of Cronkite back when I was very young.  There were only three major TV networks and they all pretty much sounded the same.  The newspapers, while more decentralized in many respects, got most of their national and international stories from UP or AP wire services just as they do now.  This is why the US probably had about as unified of a culture as it ever would through most of the last century.  That consensus started breaking down in the nineties and that trend has accelerated with the recession of 2008 and the lack of a real recovery, particularly in what is known as flyover country.

The situation with the advent of the internet is more like that of the nineteenth century and its many regional cultures.  I really don't see the US surviving in its current form due to this and the continuing economic stress due to the government living beyond its means.   In an effort to maintain the status quo it looks as if both wings of the same party, known to most people as Democrats and Republicans, have decided that war is necessary.  This is why much of the rhetoric about Russia sounds so much the like Cold War that I remember and prefer not to live through again.

To get a feel for the mood and the absurdity of it I would recommend watching Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb.  I would also spend some time and get familiar with Russian history because Putin's behavior in response to the US driving NATO right up to their border will make much more sense.

That makes sense regarding consensus breaking apart in the 90s given what I am watching atm about fox news pushing a right wing agenda starting late 80s thanks to a Murdoch spokesperson. I would love it if there was a video on the evolution of this unraveling on the left side too. Would be the same story I imagine but I wonder who are the people who own the left wing propaganda media? Anyway this is all fascinating given I have never felt this here in my own country. I know what the left wing/right wing stand for and also those sort of in the middle like NZ First and I have never felt that they actually influence the media. Certainly not in the idealistic way that America does. I would say they comment on what goes on and are more down to earth here. Different culture. I have to wonder what makes America more prone to propaganda when compared to some places. Note I say some because propaganda is a global epidemic. It is just more in your face in America. Thanks for the recommendations. I will look it up.