(01-20-2019, 12:07 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: What interest to do you think or believe that you have in all the machinery and profits associated with my business or anyone else's business? The blues are sure making a lot of important business decisions for local business owners/ local employers that are located in their urban areas these days. I mean, allowing people to work thirty hours of work for forty hours of pay is an important business decision for blues to be making for its business owners these days. I mean, doubling or tripling wages of their employees is another important business decision that blues have made for its business owners as well. I'm not sure how long they'll be able to afford doing business that way or how long they'll opt to remain in business or how long people will be able to afford to do business with them with the blues making important business decisions that increases the cost/price associated with the consumers/customers these days. I can see why stuff could get really  screwed up/messed up in some blue urban areas and some blue states within a decade or so.

Classic-Xer Wrote:We aren't socialist/fascist yet and I don't see a large portion of America converting/submitting  to socialists, Communists or fascists without violence and significant amount of casualties and all kinds of pain and suffering being felt by millions upon millions of people. Blue America on the other hand seems to be getting pretty close to becoming one or the other or a lethal combination of all of them. Honestly, I don't know who is what these days. The fascist seemed to follow or subscribe to the same basic left wing ideological belief as the blues these days. I guess that's an issue for blues to sort out and determine among themselves.

(01-20-2019, 12:07 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: [quote pid='41009' dateline='1547950167']


What interest to do you (Eric the Green) think or believe that you have in all the machinery and profits associated with my business or anyone else's business? The blues are sure making a lot of important business decisions for local business owners/ local employers that are located in their urban areas these days. I mean, allowing people to work thirty hours of work for forty hours of pay is an important business decision for blues to be making for its business owners these days. I mean, doubling or tripling wages of their employees is another important business decision that blues have made for its business owners as well. I'm not sure how long they'll be able to afford doing business that way or how long they'll opt to remain in business or how long people will be able to afford to do business with them with the blues making important business decisions that increases the cost/price associated with the consumers/customers these days. I can see why stuff could get really  screwed up/messed up in some blue urban areas and some blue states within a decade or so.

Quote:We aren't socialist/fascist yet and I don't see a large portion of America converting/submitting  to socialists, Communists or fascists without violence and significant amount of casualties and all kinds of pain and suffering being felt by millions upon millions of people. Blue America on the other hand seems to be getting pretty close to becoming one or the other or a lethal combination of all of them. Honestly, I don't know who is what these days. The fascist seemed to follow or subscribe to the same basic left wing ideological belief as the blues these days. I guess that's an issue for blues to sort out and determine among themselves.

Quote:I bet Hitler and his crony's ate well as their utopian world was coming apart at the seams and crumbling down all around them. Does Nancy have a clue as to how powerful  and resilient and determined  the real  American people are during real crisis's and major wars that matter as far as American survival goes. Your Millie's ain't quite up par with the old GI's. Of coarse, the old GI's didn't really have a choice to vote themselves out of a war or obtain a college deferment to avoid being drafted and being sent to fight a war or the right to vote themselves out of college debt or the right vote themselves out of foreclosure or the right to vote for a free college degree or the right to vote to receive  free healthcare or the right to drink at 18 or the right to smoke pot or the right to vote for a guaranteed job that pays a middle income wage. Yes, I have a pretty good idea of  what blues are about and a pretty good idea of what kind of government that the blues will need to elect  and a pretty good idea of how the utopian blue world will eventually end up as well. I say thanks for the offer but I'm not interested in becoming a blue.[/quote}

(01-20-2019, 03:07 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-20-2019, 12:07 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: What interest to do you think or believe that you have in all the machinery and profits associated with my business or anyone else's business? The blues are sure making a lot of important business decisions for local business owners/ local employers that are located in their urban areas these days. I mean, allowing people to work thirty hours of work for forty hours of pay is an important business decision for blues to be making for its business owners these days. I mean, doubling or tripling wages of their employees is another important business decision that blues have made for its business owners as well. I'm not sure how long they'll be able to afford doing business that way or how long they'll opt to remain in business or how long people will be able to afford to do business with them with the blues making important business decisions that increases the cost/price associated with the consumers/customers these days. I can see why stuff could get really  screwed up/messed up in some blue urban areas and some blue states within a decade or so.

You are complaining about the response to past afflictions.  It's been 45 years since the economy has shared its bounty with all.  Finally, the ability to pull that off forever has been challenged, and the current winners are livid.  Sorry, but you, among many others, benefitted from a paternalistic government, subservient to money first and foremost.  For all of that, you benefitted very little, because the big gains went to capital ... as always.  If there is no corrective, then the economy will devolve into a 21st century version of Feudalism.  That's nuts by any measure.  Oh yeah, the proof:

Classic-Xer Wrote:We aren't socialist/fascist yet and I don't see a large portion of America converting/submitting  to socialists, Communists or fascists without violence and significant amount of casualties and all kinds of pain and suffering being felt by millions upon millions of people. Blue America on the other hand seems to be getting pretty close to becoming one or the other or a lethal combination of all of them. Honestly, I don't know who is what these days. The fascist seemed to follow or subscribe to the same basic left wing ideological belief as the blues these days. I guess that's an issue for blues to sort out and determine among themselves.

We are moving toward socialism because capitalism couldn't control its own lusts.  Capital has always taken somewhat more than its share, but, starting in 1973, capital took most if not all of it.  Since 1970, productivity has more than doubled.  Wages?  They're flat.  This has been covered up by bluster, from the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter, and by "generous" credit.  Mr. Working Stiff may have been fooled for a long time, but, as Abe Lincoln said, you can't fool them all forever.  Trump's mistake was assuming that he could play on the fears of the very people who've been screwed while stealing even more.  Here's a hint: people noticed and they're pissed.

(01-20-2019, 08:47 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Eating well? That is the norm for the middle  class and much of the working class. Some Americans endure food insecurity, but such reflects the extreme disparity of economic result in America as the result of economic choices of our right-wingers.  Let us remember that the GIs saw a government uniformly sympathetic to their economic interests  while Millennial adults saw such only for a couple of years in 2009 and 2010. The economic elites who believe that the common man has a duty to compete to show who can suffer most for those elites in a contest to decide who deserves survival have had continuing influence in American political life through the 4T. Their dream is of German productivity on African wages. Those elites believe in a managed economy with themselves as the managers deciding who wins and who fails. I have heard such called 'socialism for the rich'.
But here is how you could benefit from America becoming more 'blue' in its politics: you are in the Twin Cities area, where air conditioning isn't quite a necessity as it is in Kansas City. Air conditioning is not quite a necessity for housing in places like Grand Rapids or Lansing -- yet. It can make life more pleasant, at least on those sultry days of midsummer when the temperature and humidity both soar.   If income is more evenly distributed, more people would get air conditioning, and you would have more business.

(01-21-2019, 11:40 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I don't work in manufacturing and I'm not a manufacturing/blue collar worker who would normally vote Democratic. I'm a professional/skilled tradesman who owns and operates a small business who would normally vote Republican. I'm not one who is/has been complaining as you say. Although, I have listened to the complaints of those who expressed concerns over the years and my solution was very similar to what Trump has been doing to change existing trade deals and addressing illegal immigration which hurts middle class workers and the working poor the most. I'm bullet proof as far as a cheap illegal coming in and replacing me or eliminating my job. I'm also pretty bullet proof as far as the global economy goes as well. Right now, my primary issues are ILLEGAL immigration and HEALTHCARE costs.

Classic-Xer Wrote:At what point did the Democrats stop voting the way Democrats should have been voting or used to vote instead of voting on behalf of the interests millionaires and billionaires (Big Business and wealthy foreign interests associated with the global economy and wealthy movie stars and the wealthy heirs of old robber barons or industrialists and voting on behalf of welfare recipients and voting in favor of more welfare programs and supporting the expansion of welfare programs.

Classic-Xer Wrote:Now, if you were able to use/apply  some common sense reasoning and you were able to use or apply an objective (non partisan) view and/or take of things, you could easily determine that the two are connected to each other politically and view them as being a major Democratic problem as far as it's primary political interests are concerned. So, what happened under your nose that you weren't aware of as far as the Democratic party or left wing politics goes? I've had no interest in the Democratic party or left wing politics my entire adult life as you can see by my views and my posts. I have Democratic voters for friends ( the majority of whom are affiliated with trade unions or affiliated with a labor union or affiliated with their parents party that they haven't come to grips with the fact that it no longer shares the same values and beliefs as them). 

Classic-Xer Wrote:I'm not a avid fan of Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter or Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity or any of the major conservative talk show hosts these days. Although, I would most likely agree with most of their views pertaining to the liberals (blues)/ the majority of the Democratic party these days. The Democratic voters are going to have a choice/ decision to make now or in the not so distant future relating to their future and the future of their children. The American right has already decided which direction it's going and the direction that it's chosen isn't in the direction socialism, fascism or  Communism. As I've mentioned before, the blues have issues they better figure out ways to resolve among themselves pretty quick or they're going to learn first hand what it was like when left wing utopian societies like those of Nazi's, Bolshevik's and so forth came crashing down around them. So, as you see, I share your view as far as the end result.  Hint: If our wages (Republican/conservative/classical liberal voters) were flat, you'd have more support from those on the American right these days.

(01-22-2019, 01:29 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-21-2019, 11:40 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I don't work in manufacturing and I'm not a manufacturing/blue collar worker who would normally vote Democratic. I'm a professional/skilled tradesman who owns and operates a small business who would normally vote Republican. I'm not one who is/has been complaining as you say. Although, I have listened to the complaints of those who expressed concerns over the years and my solution was very similar to what Trump has been doing to change existing trade deals and addressing illegal immigration which hurts middle class workers and the working poor the most. I'm bullet proof as far as a cheap illegal coming in and replacing me or eliminating my job. I'm also pretty bullet proof as far as the global economy goes as well. Right now, my primary issues are ILLEGAL immigration and HEALTHCARE costs.

If you ask anyone who really understands trade, you'll find a consistent position that trade is a net benefit to the US.  You'll find the same for employing immigrants.  Both cases can be proven mathematically.  In both cases, the overall amount of economic activity in the US increases, with the side benefit of immigrant labor vastly improving the actuarial problems with both Medicare and Social Security -- even if they get to claim benefits themselves later.  The real issues are off-shoring, which is possible because big business has gotten tax breaks rather than penalties for doing it, and automation, which eliminates entire classes of jobs.  In short, the jobs are going to low-pay areas, then vaporizing.  Trump's policies have made that even worse, by letting big business reclaim their off-shore earnings on the cheap, with 99% of the benefit going to shareholders and management.  

None of that is effected by illegal immigration, and healthcare costs will never be brought under control until the government takes over and demands fairness.

Classic-Xer Wrote:At what point did the Democrats stop voting the way Democrats should have been voting or used to vote instead of voting on behalf of the interests millionaires and billionaires (Big Business and wealthy foreign interests associated with the global economy and wealthy movie stars and the wealthy heirs of old robber barons or industrialists and voting on behalf of welfare recipients and voting in favor of more welfare programs and supporting the expansion of welfare programs.

Classic-Xer Wrote:Now, if you were able to use/apply  some common sense reasoning and you were able to use or apply an objective (non partisan) view and/or take of things, you could easily determine that the two are connected to each other politically and view them as being a major Democratic problem as far as it's primary political interests are concerned. So, what happened under your nose that you weren't aware of as far as the Democratic party or left wing politics goes? I've had no interest in the Democratic party or left wing politics my entire adult life as you can see by my views and my posts. I have Democratic voters for friends ( the majority of whom are affiliated with trade unions or affiliated with a labor union or affiliated with their parents party that they haven't come to grips with the fact that it no longer shares the same values and beliefs as them). 

Quote:

Classic-Xer Wrote:I'm not a avid fan of Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter or Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity or any of the major conservative talk show hosts these days. Although, I would most likely agree with most of their views pertaining to the liberals (blues)/ the majority of the Democratic party these days. The Democratic voters are going to have a choice/ decision to make now or in the not so distant future relating to their future and the future of their children. The American right has already decided which direction it's going and the direction that it's chosen isn't in the direction socialism, fascism or  Communism. As I've mentioned before, the blues have issues they better figure out ways to resolve among themselves pretty quick or they're going to learn first hand what it was like when left wing utopian societies like those of Nazi's, Bolshevik's and so forth came crashing down around them. So, as you see, I share your view as far as the end result.  Hint: If our wages (Republican/conservative/classical liberal voters) were flat, you'd have more support from those on the American right these days.

If anyone is marching toward Fascism, its the Trump administration.  I have no idea where you get the idea that you have an ally there.  Trump is 100% about himself, and he'll lie, cheat and steal if it gets him something he wants … which is primarily money.  And when exactly did the anti-Communist right start to love Russia so much?  

And fyi: the Nazis and Fascists were anything but left wing.  They were, and still are, as far to the right as you can get.  For that matter, they share a love of autocracy with the old Communists.  In no case were any these utopian.

(01-24-2019, 12:56 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

Quote: (I said)

The Right used to hate the Soviet Union because it was socialist in the sense of the government owning everything and leaving nothing to a privileged class of capitalists. The Right envied the labor discipline and the command system, wishing that it could adopt such in the service of class privilege.

Putin is ex-KGB, but unlike his predecessors as bosses from Dzierzhinksy to Kryuchkov he has never had to sell Marxism-Leninism. He needs not try. He can appeal to the vanity, selfishness, and cruelty, and alienation of capitalists just as his predecessors could appeal to the vanity, selfishness, cruelty, and alienation of people willing to sell  at the least some spy secrets to the USSR. Putin can offer a business deal as a Soviet-era Cheka, OGPU, NKVD, or KGB never could. Putin can find more traitors willing to sell out democracy because those who sell out no longer need sell out their class privilege or identity. A traitor like Donald Trump who wants to change the system to fit his vision (he has a vision, and it is a sick one) has more to offer than does a treacherous spy like Aldrich Ames who wants to keep up some Good Life that necessitates the survival of the system whose secrets he sells for 'thirty pieces of silver'. 

But Donald Trump has something in common with Commies: a contempt for liberal democracy. The President that we elect in 2020 must reassert the values that really did make America great.

The American Right was opposed to the Soviet Union and its Communist system for obvious reasons. As an older American, you should be able to know  and understand those reasons. If not, here's a reason, every American citizen (regardless of their economic status/class and political affiliation (Republican or Democrat) who own property like homes, farms, businesses, land of any kind, cabins and so forth would no longer have a right to own them because the individual freedom and financial means to do so wouldn't exist under the Soviet Union and it's Communist system. Every blue minded poster should be able to read this and hopefully learn why the 99% approach doesn't ever work for them within the US like it could/should be able to within some poor Latin American countries that haven't been torn apart and ravaged by civil was between Communists and Fascist Regimes or dictators.

(01-24-2019, 12:50 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The American Right was opposed to the Soviet Union and its Communist system for obvious reasons. As an older American, you should be able to know  and understand those reasons. If not, here's a reason, every American citizen (regardless of their economic status/class and political affiliation (Republican or Democrat) who own property like homes, farms, business's, land of any kind, cabins and so forth would no longer have a right to own them because the individual freedom and financial means to do so wouldn't exist under the Soviet Union and it's Communist system. Every blue minded poster should be able to read this and hopefully learn why the 99% approach doesn't ever work for them within the US like it could/should be able to within some poor Latin American countries that haven't been torn apart and ravaged by cival war's between Communists and Fascist Regimes or dictators.

(01-19-2019, 09:09 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: We blues do not say that labor should not be replaced, where it's productive to do so. We say if we do this, then the resulting profits do not belong to just the owners of the machines, but should be distributed to all the workers who make them profitable, and to all people in need. All of society has contributed to this advancement. If the machines save labor, as promised, then it should save labor for workers, and everybody. Robotics means the end of the Republican anti-welfare meme that you guys are SO devoted to, and which is the basis of your votes. Americans will have to let go of the work ethic, since less work is needed, and make sure that the profits from the machines get distributed, and that workers and other creative and enterprising people of all kinds only need to work part time at full pay. That won't mean the end of ethics, or the goal of fulfilling and productive activities, or even of self-reliance. But if the conservative red Reagun/Gingrinch/Bushed/Drumpface Republican voters insist on keeping this outdated anti-welfare meme as the ruling doctrine of our society, then we'd be willing to let you guys go live in your separate Dixieland Heartland, and let us forge ahead with progress by ourselves.

Quote:(Classic Xer)
The American Right was opposed to the Soviet Union and its Communist system for obvious reasons. As an older American, you should be able to know  and understand those reasons. If not, here's a reason, every American citizen (regardless of their economic status/class and political affiliation (Republican or Democrat) who own property like homes, farms, business's, land of any kind, cabins and so forth would no longer have a right to own them because the individual freedom and financial means to do so wouldn't exist under the Soviet Union and it's Communist system. Every blue minded poster should be able to read this and hopefully learn why the 99% approach doesn't ever work for them within the US like it could/should be able to within some poor Latin American countries that haven't been torn apart and ravaged by cival war's between Communists and Fascist Regimes or dictators.

(01-24-2019, 01:35 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The American Left was also opposed to the Soviet Union and its Communist system. Before the sixties and the end of the Vietnam War, it was the Democrats who waged actual war on them. Meanwhile, the Republicans like McCarthy and Nixon spent most of their "anti-communist" energy on taking away our basic rights that Americans hold dear, and resisting the movements to expand those rights.

Here is what the Left says about America and the totalitarian systems:





The Republicans have opposed the rights of Americans. Trump tries to suppress our rights. But we on the Left are not going to let them turn us around.

The Republicans are only concerned with property rights and lower taxes, and about suppression of the immigrants and lower classes whom they blame for the economic pressures that affect them, and about opposing the government that seeks to make the economy fair to everyone, rather than only to that .01% of the people that Trump and the Republicans are concerned to protect. The Democrats protect union rights, and Republicans oppose them, so workers are still in the right camp if they are Democrats. The Democrats enforced immigration laws already; Trump's campaign against immigrants was merely a campaign gimmick to appeal to your mis-directed fear and anger, and it works on that level. A fair immigration system would protect rights and work well for all; the Republicans in the House stopped it from happening.

The 99% approach always works, and the 1% trickle-down Republican Reaganoid system never does. The 99% approach only seeks equal opportunity for all. It is opposed to a Communist system that would take all property rights and all other rights away, and vest them in an oligarchic elite of political operatives. That system does not work well for the people either. It may protect equality for most of the people, including gender equality, and sometimes ethnic equality (but often deliberate ethnic oppression), but it is equality at a low level.

Greens, Democrats and progressives are true Americans. Those who protect the rights of a few to exploit the many are not. A fair system that makes sure that people get a fair wage for their work, and that people are protected against the frequent capricious and destructive behavior by capitalist pigs, is not a Communist system. It is a mixed system that protects our ability to engage in free enterprise and to have equal opportunity.

(01-24-2019, 03:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-24-2019, 01:35 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The American Left was also opposed to the Soviet Union and its Communist system. Before the sixties and the end of the Vietnam War, it was the Democrats who waged actual war on them. Meanwhile, the Republicans like McCarthy and Nixon spent most of their "anti-communist" energy on taking away our basic rights that Americans hold dear, and resisting the movements to expand those rights.

Here is what the Left says about America and the totalitarian systems:





The Republicans have opposed the rights of Americans. Trump tries to suppress our rights. But we on the Left are not going to let them turn us around.

The Republicans are only concerned with property rights and lower taxes, and about suppression of the immigrants and lower classes whom they blame for the economic pressures that affect them, and about opposing the government that seeks to make the economy fair to everyone, rather than only to that .01% of the people that Trump and the Republicans are concerned to protect. The Democrats protect union rights, and Republicans oppose them, so workers are still in the right camp if they are Democrats. The Democrats enforced immigration laws already; Trump's campaign against immigrants was merely a campaign gimmick to appeal to your mis-directed fear and anger, and it works on that level. A fair immigration system would protect rights and work well for all; the Republicans in the House stopped it from happening.

The 99% approach always works, and the 1% trickle-down Republican Reaganoid system never does. The 99% approach only seeks equal opportunity for all. It is opposed to a Communist system that would take all property rights and all other rights away, and vest them in an oligarchic elite of political operatives. That system does not work well for the people either. It may protect equality for most of the people, including gender equality, and sometimes ethnic equality (but often deliberate ethnic oppression), but it is equality at a low level.

Greens, Democrats and progressives are true Americans. Those who protect the rights of a few to exploit the many are not. A fair system that makes sure that people get a fair wage for their work, and that people are protected against the frequent capricious and destructive behavior by capitalist pigs, is not a Communist system. It is a mixed system that protects our ability to engage in free enterprise and to have equal opportunity.

In my opinion, there is a difference between the American left and the old left or far left that you represent. As I've said, the America right has already made its decision and the American Left is now positioned as having to make a decision as to which direction/system is best suited for them and their future generations.

(01-24-2019, 04:06 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-24-2019, 03:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-24-2019, 01:35 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The American Left was also opposed to the Soviet Union and its Communist system. Before the sixties and the end of the Vietnam War, it was the Democrats who waged actual war on them. Meanwhile, the Republicans like McCarthy and Nixon spent most of their "anti-communist" energy on taking away our basic rights that Americans hold dear, and resisting the movements to expand those rights.

Here is what the Left says about America and the totalitarian systems:





The Republicans have opposed the rights of Americans. Trump tries to suppress our rights. But we on the Left are not going to let them turn us around.

The Republicans are only concerned with property rights and lower taxes, and about suppression of the immigrants and lower classes whom they blame for the economic pressures that affect them, and about opposing the government that seeks to make the economy fair to everyone, rather than only to that .01% of the people that Trump and the Republicans are concerned to protect. The Democrats protect union rights, and Republicans oppose them, so workers are still in the right camp if they are Democrats. The Democrats enforced immigration laws already; Trump's campaign against immigrants was merely a campaign gimmick to appeal to your mis-directed fear and anger, and it works on that level. A fair immigration system would protect rights and work well for all; the Republicans in the House stopped it from happening.

The 99% approach always works, and the 1% trickle-down Republican Reaganoid system never does. The 99% approach only seeks equal opportunity for all. It is opposed to a Communist system that would take all property rights and all other rights away, and vest them in an oligarchic elite of political operatives. That system does not work well for the people either. It may protect equality for most of the people, including gender equality, and sometimes ethnic equality (but often deliberate ethnic oppression), but it is equality at a low level.

Greens, Democrats and progressives are true Americans. Those who protect the rights of a few to exploit the many are not. A fair system that makes sure that people get a fair wage for their work, and that people are protected against the frequent capricious and destructive behavior by capitalist pigs, is not a Communist system. It is a mixed system that protects our ability to engage in free enterprise and to have equal opportunity.

In my opinion, there is a difference between the American left and the old left or far left that you represent. As I've said, the America right has already made its decision and the American Left is now positioned as having to make a decision as to which direction/system is best suited for them and their future generations.

But I don't think you understand what people on the left such as myself, David or P.Brower represent. You keep calling us communists, or say that what we advocate is communism, and that we are not Americans. As long as you do this, you are not capable of discerning what anyone on the Left thinks. There are differences among the Left and the Center-Left, to be sure, but the line is very fluid, and the moderates still have an electoral advantage, although this could shift in the next decade.

Quote:I suspect many on the Right and the Left alike are firm in a lot of their opinions. Right now those who lean left have about a 51 to 45% lead in opinion polls on various issues and approval/disapproval polls. There is some variation in this, of course. But our hope on the Left is that this lead will grow a bit over the next few years, and that it will be enough to overcome the systemic advantage that you guys on the right have through voter suppression, gerrymandering, the electoral college, the senate, the money in politics, the supreme court, etc. 

Quote:If we can have a winning streak in elections, then the right wing will shrink and gradually disappear amid the success of the country and the government. If the Left starts to win elections, it will be up to you guys whether to rebel over guns and/or taxes or immigrants, etc., and whether to do it violently. If the Left fails in the coming election years, then the country will decline, and some will exercize the option to move away. The Left historically has not been able to win a revolution unless it is well-organized with state and foreign help. That is also true on the Right. 

Quote:But I suspect the Left will not be the ones to organize such a successful revolution. We will just keep plugging away while right-wing rule ruins the country, in hopes the younger people will wake up. The more your side wins, the greater the decline our country will face. I suspect it will become quite a steep decline in short order, and fueled by climate change.

(01-24-2019, 04:06 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: But I don't think you understand what people on the left such as myself, David or P.Brower represent. You keep calling us communists, or say that what we advocate is communism, and that we are not Americans. As long as you do this, you are not capable of discerning what anyone on the Left thinks. There are differences among the Left and the Center-Left, to be sure, but the line is very fluid, and the moderates still have an electoral advantage, although this could shift in the next decade.

I suspect many on the Right and the Left alike are firm in a lot of their opinions. Right now those who lean left have about a 51 to 45% lead in opinion polls on various issues and approval/disapproval polls. There is some variation in this, of course. But our hope on the Left is that this lead will grow a bit over the next few years, and that it will be enough to overcome the systemic advantage that you guys on the right have through voter suppression, gerrymandering, the electoral college, the senate, the money in politics, the supreme court, etc. 

If we can have a winning streak in elections, then the right wing will shrink and gradually disappear amid the success of the country and the government. If the Left starts to win elections, it will be up to you guys whether to rebel over guns and/or taxes or immigrants, etc., and whether to do it violently. If the Left fails in the coming election years, then the country will decline, and some will exercize the option to move away. The Left historically has not been able to win a revolution unless it is well-organized with state and foreign help. That is also true on the Right. 

But I suspect the Left will not be the ones to organize such a successful revolution. We will just keep plugging away while right-wing rule ruins the country, in hopes the younger people will wake up. The more your side wins, the greater the decline our country will face. I suspect it will become quite a steep decline in short order, and fueled by climate change.

(01-25-2019, 09:21 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: Trump is a son of Satan:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-lamb/wikileaks-confirms-that-d_b_12070168.html

(01-26-2019, 01:31 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I associate (Eric's) socialist views and socialist ideology with communism. I associate the term socialism with the term communism as well. Now, you may not be directly advocating for communism as you say. However, I do believe that communism or a  more communist like system is the end result that you'd prefer to see representing you and your interests and serving the interests of blues in general. Yes, I view you and David as communist sympathizers/believers. However, I happen to  view PB as more of a useful idiot or political pawn at this point. BTW, I think the American Right could win an American war with the Left without having to count on foreign help these days. I mean, we'd have an American government in place and an American system in place and an economic system in place and an American army in place and a large population of Americans who would be willing to support them.