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Need missing page 268 from Fourth Turning TPB - Printable Version

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Need missing page 268 from Fourth Turning TPB - Aristotle Jones - 06-07-2016

Hello,

I'm reading TFT to aid me to understand what to do with and protect the proceeds from the sale of property I'm about to receive, and found the book is missing page 268. This page is rather crucial to the climax of the theory in the book. I'm a Nomad on the edge of Boomer, and the missing page discusses both their actions in the next Crisis.

Can anyone send me or post a copy of the missing page?

I've searched John's forum without success, tried phoning Neil's company & was blocked, tried emailing without reply so far, and figure the publisher wouldn't care. I've also tried finding a copy at any local libraries, but no copies are available. I'd like to finish this book while I have time to consider it's implications to my next financial steps.

In case there are different page orders, the part I'm missing is in chapter 9, subsection titled Fourth Turnings & Archetypes, beginning after the first bullet point starting with "As visionary Prophets replace Artists in elderhood... (Second set of bullet points after the subsection title) The missing matter ends with the following: ..."able over the ideal, midlife Nomads forge an effective alliance"...

Thanks ahead,

<*>aj

RE: Need missing page 268 from Fourth Turning TPB - pbrower2a - 06-08-2016

(06-08-2016, 05:40 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-07-2016, 11:02 PM)Aristotle Jones Wrote: Hello,

I'm reading TFT to aid me to understand what to do with and protect the proceeds from the sale of property I'm about to receive, and found the book is missing page 268. This page is rather crucial to the climax of the theory in the book. I'm a Nomad on the edge of Boomer, and the missing page discusses both their actions in the next Crisis.

Can anyone send me or post a copy of the missing page?

I've searched John's forum without success, tried phoning Neil's company & was blocked, tried emailing without reply so far, and figure the publisher wouldn't care. I've also tried finding a copy at any local libraries, but no copies are available. I'd like to finish this book while I have time to consider it's implications to my next financial steps.

In case there are different page orders, the part I'm missing is in chapter 9, subsection titled Fourth Turnings & Archetypes, beginning after the first bullet point starting with "As visionary Prophets replace Artists in elderhood... (Second set of bullet points after the subsection title) The missing matter ends with the following: ..."able over the ideal, midlife Nomads forge an effective alliance"...

Thanks ahead,

<*>aj
Join the club. They ripped me off several pages of chapter 9 on my ebook version from 273 to 287. I have never read that whole section.

"As visionary Prophets replace Artists in elderhood...they push to resolve ever-deepening moral choices, setting the stage for the secular goals of the young.

Paraphrasing,

Elder Prophets push principle beyond the point of no return, beyond the symbolic to the decisive. They now use their values to define community. They insist upon respect for elder stewardship and demand that people put rectitude above material gain and indulgence.  So it has been since the late sixteenth century; expect much the same now. Elder Idealists faced death without fear. They knew that the world was doomed without such a redirection, and they turned against rebels, despots, and unbelievers. So it was in the American Revolution when Samuel Adams exhorted "Let us behave like... wise men". Praying while younger men fought, they had the first two presidents of the Continental Congress who pushed blue laws. Transcendental leaders of both sides dominated in both Richmond and Washington throughout the Civil War.

Thaddeus Stevens, one of the hottest of fire-breathers of the Union side, said "Instruments of war are not selected on account of their harmlessness" while calling for the Union armies to "lay waste to the whole South" (my comment -- that could have been Churchill or FDR in the Second World War about Nazi Germany or Thug Japan).

The elders get their way with ferocity against demonized enemies, and they inflict maximal harm to an enemy.


Quote:As pragmatic Nomads replace Prophets in midlife, they apply toughness and resolution to defend society while safeguarding the interests of the young.

Playing to win but half-expecting to lose, Nomad/Reactive generations enter midlife with a sense of exhaustion. Becoming increasingly averse to risk they become much more cautious. They accept widening gaps between 'winners' and 'losers' in economic results. The ablest get renown for cunning, pragmatism, and individual distinction. Now recognizing that everything is at stake they rise to the occasion to make tough choices. Still preferring the workable over the ideal they at best translate Idealist preachings into practical objectives. They expect little success and even less gain, let alone personal recognition for their successes. They expect the worst if things go wrong; if the Great Struggle goes badly they will be the ones who lose big chunks of their lives to the hangman. They do not fight as gentlemen (think of Francis Marion).  

(My comment: many British and American political and military figures expected to get much the same treatment as Ribbentrop, Tojo, Mussolini, Quisling, Szalasi, Rosenberg, Doihara, and Streicher had they been defeated.

Does anyone have any question that the Nazis would have treated this fellow (from Wikipedia) with any mercy whatsoever?

Quote:Marshal of the Royal Air Force Arthur William Tedder, 1st Baron Tedder, GCB (11 July 1890 – 3 June 1967), was a senior British air force commander. He was a pilot and squadron commander in the Royal Flying Corps in the First World War and he went on to serve as a senior officer in the Royal Air Force during the inter-war years when he served in Turkey, Great Britain and the Far East. During the Second World War, as Air Officer Commanding RAF Middle East Command, Tedder directed air operations in the Mediterranean and North Africa, including the evacuation of Crete and Operation Crusader in North Africa. His bombing tactics became known as the "Tedder Carpet". Later in the war Tedder took command of Mediterranean Air Command and in that role was closely involved in the planning of the Allied invasion of Sicily and then the Allied invasion of Italy. When Operation Overlord—the invasion of France—came to be planned, Tedder was appointed Deputy Supreme Commander at Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force under General Eisenhower. After the war he served as Chief of the Air Staff, in which role he advocated increased recruiting in the face of many airmen leaving the service, doubled the size of RAF Fighter Command and implemented arrangements for the Berlin Airlift in 1948. After the war he held senior positions in business and academia.  

At the outbreak of war in 1939, Tedder's department was transferred to the newly created Ministry of Aircraft Production, but Tedder was unable to form a good working relationship with the minister, Lord Beaverbrook and consequently with Prime Minister Churchill and on 29 November 1940, he became Deputy Air Officer Commanding in Chief, RAF Middle East Command[2] with the acting rank of air marshal.[17]

Tedder was appointed as Air Officer Commanding in Chief, RAF Middle East Command on 1 June 1941,[2] with the temporary rank of air marshal[18] (made permanent in April 1942).[19] He had not been Churchill's first choice for the role but when the preferred choice (Air Vice-Marshal O T Boyd) was captured, Tedder was appointed.[1] As head of the RAF Middle East Command, he commanded air operations in the Mediterranean and North Africa, including the evacuation of Crete in May 1941 and Operation Crusader in North Africa in late 1941.[1] Tedder was advanced to Knight Commander of the Order of the Bath in the 1942 New Year Honours,[20] mentioned in despatches for his services in the Middle East on 30 June 1942[21] and promoted to the temporary rank of air chief marshal on 3 July 1942.[22]

Tedder oversaw the buildup of the air arm in the Western Desert and, more importantly, the development of new more effective operational and administrative policies which turned it into a highly effective force which was key to the Allied victory at the decisive Battle of El Alamein in October 1942.[23] One of his bombing tactics became known as the "Tedder Carpet".[24] He was advanced to Knight Grand Cross of the Order of the Bath on 27 November 1942 in recognition of his services in the Middle East.[25]


In February 1943 Tedder took command of Mediterranean Air Command,[2] serving under U.S. General Dwight D. Eisenhower (the theatre commander), and in that role was closely involved in the planning of the Allied invasion of Sicily and then the Allied invasion of Italy.[26] He was awarded the American Legion of Merit on 27 August 1943[27] and awarded the Grand Cross of the Polish Order of Polonia Restituta on 1 October 1943.[28] He went on to be Commander of Mediterranean Allied Air Forces, which took in an expanded group of air forces, in December 1943.[2]

When Operation Overlord—the invasion of France—came to be planned, Tedder was appointed Deputy Supreme Commander at SHAEF beneath General Eisenhower, taking up the role in January 1944.[2] However he developed an antipathy towards the British General Bernard Montgomery and during the difficult Battle of Normandy and later, he was a critic of Montgomery's performance and advocated Montgomery's removal from command.[26] In the last year of the war, Tedder was sent to the Soviet Union to seek assistance as the Western Front came under pressure during the Battle of the Bulge.[26] When the unconditional surrender of the Germans came in May 1945 Tedder signed on behalf of General Eisenhower.[26] He was promoted to the substantive rank of air chief marshal on 6 June 1945.[29] Tedder was awarded the Soviet Order of Kutuzov (1st Class) on 28 August 1945[30] and promoted to Marshal of the Royal Air Force on 12 September 1945.[31]
   (from Wikipedia)

The Nazis might have singled him out for burning at the stake or casting to predatory animals had they won. No "senior positions in business and academia" for him in the wake of a Nazi victory!

(end comment).

They have everything to lose and little to gain -- and they know it. That's how much of life is for Nomad/Reactive types.

As team-working Heroes replace Nomads in young adulthood, they challenge the political failure of elder-led crusades, fueling a society-wide secular crisis.

Coming of age, Hero generations prefer constructive activity, dutiful conduct, and generational community. Doers and team players almost by instinct, they prefer that goals and community be clearly defined. They band (and bind) on command, expecting and receiving challenges from elders. Their heroism turns a menacing world into something promising, meeting adversity ably -- as they can imagine no alternatives other than unsufferable defeat and subsequent subjection. These are the sorts who charged Omaha Beach as no generation any of us can remember from since the American Revolution could do. Most live unobjectionable lives.  

Artists, to put it as simply as possible, are either too old (as will be the remaining Silent) or too young (most youth born so far in the 21st century) to have big roles in the Crisis. They will be on the sidelines of history.

RE: Need missing page 268 from Fourth Turning TPB - Aristotle Jones - 06-08-2016

(06-08-2016, 10:14 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:
(06-08-2016, 05:40 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-07-2016, 11:02 PM)Aristotle Jones Wrote: I'm trying to understand pbrower2a's reply.

Is this a verbatim quote of the page I'm missing or what?

Best I can see it is:

a completion of the first sentence of the missing page, then
pbrower's paraphrasing, then
unattributed quotes, then
longer unattributed quotes, then
(end comment) without any (begin comment), then
more text that I have no idea whether it comes from Neil, pbrower or wikipedia.

Is this all from the missing page?

Thanks ahead,

<*>aj


RE: Need missing page 268 from Fourth Turning TPB - pbrower2a - 06-08-2016

The unattributed quotes are directly from text as highlighted by Howe and Strauss.

RE: Need missing page 268 from Fourth Turning TPB - Aristotle Jones - 06-08-2016

(06-08-2016, 06:23 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: The unattributed quotes are directly from text as highlighted by Howe and Strauss.

Maybe it's the migraine, but I am unable to parse between your additions, wiki and the actual text as Neil wrote. I only asked for the latter. I don't even think wiki was up when Neil wrote TFT. From where I sit, it is impossible to tell who said what. Can't you just scan & attach the missing page, then others who might need it will have a complete book?

Thanks ahead,

<*>aj

RE: Need missing page 268 from Fourth Turning TPB - Aristotle Jones - 06-09-2016

"You are just not used to the layout. I wasn't originally either. But you will figure it out. Rest up."

I am not used to people injecting their unsolicited commentaries into a simple request for a quoted page from the actual author of TFT.

What follows is my best attempt to reconstruct what Neil actually wrote as supplied by pbrower2a. It is still incomplete because it does not include the missing matter leading up to the final sentence quoted in my original request.

============
  • "As visionary Prophets replace Artists in elderhood...they push to resolve ever-deepening moral choices, setting the stage for the secular goals of the young.
Elder Prophets push principle beyond the point of no return, beyond the symbolic to the decisive. They now use their values to define community. They insist upon respect for elder stewardship and demand that people put rectitude above material gain and indulgence.  So it has been since the late sixteenth century; expect much the same now. Elder Idealists faced death without fear. They knew that the world was doomed without such a redirection, and they turned against rebels, despots, and unbelievers. So it was in the American Revolution when Samuel Adams exhorted "Let us behave like... wise men". Praying while younger men fought, they had the first two presidents of the Continental Congress who pushed blue laws. Transcendental leaders of both sides dominated in both Richmond and Washington throughout the Civil War.

Thaddeus Stevens, one of the hottest of fire-breathers of the Union side, said "Instruments of war are not selected on account of their harmlessness" while calling for the Union armies to "lay waste to the whole South"
 
The elders get their way with ferocity against demonized enemies, and they inflict maximal harm to an enemy.
  • As pragmatic Nomads replace Prophets in midlife, they apply toughness and resolution to defend society while safeguarding the interests of the young.
Playing to win but half-expecting to lose, Nomad/Reactive generations enter midlife with a sense of exhaustion. Becoming increasingly averse to risk they become much more cautious. They accept widening gaps between 'winners' and 'losers' in economic results. The ablest get renown for cunning, pragmatism, and individual distinction. Now recognizing that everything is at stake they rise to the occasion to make tough choices. Still preferring the workable over the ideal they at best translate Idealist preachings into practical objectives. They expect little success and even less gain, let alone personal recognition for their successes. They expect the worst if things go wrong; if the Great Struggle goes badly they will be the ones who lose big chunks of their lives to the hangman. They do not fight as gentlemen.
 
They have everything to lose and little to gain -- and they know it. That's how much of life is for Nomad/Reactive types.
  • As team-working Heroes replace Nomads in young adulthood, they challenge the political failure of elder-led crusades, fueling a society-wide secular crisis.
Coming of age, Hero generations prefer constructive activity, dutiful conduct, and generational community. Doers and team players almost by instinct, they prefer that goals and community be clearly defined. They band (and bind) on command, expecting and receiving challenges from elders. Their heroism turns a menacing world into something promising, meeting adversity ably -- as they can imagine no alternatives other than unsufferable defeat and subsequent subjection. These are the sorts who charged Omaha Beach as no generation any of us can remember from since the American Revolution could do. Most live unobjectionable lives.  

Artists, to put it as simply as possible, are either too old (as will be the remaining Silent) or too young (most youth born so far in the 21st century) to have big roles in the Crisis. They will be on the sidelines of history.

===============

"The missing matter ends with the following: ..."able over the ideal, midlife Nomads forge an effective alliance"..."

===============

As I'm sure I'm not the only one who would appreciate an accurate & complete copy of the missing page, can someone please supply the remaining material ending in the above sentence from the top of page 269?

Thanks ahead,

<*>aj

RE: Need missing page 268 from Fourth Turning TPB - Aristotle Jones - 06-09-2016

In a surfeit of caution, I checked to be sure that my quote of the end of the missing page was accurate, which it was, but then discovered that while pbrower2a was so intent on paraphrasing Neil, he not only left out material from the missing page, but ended his "quote" half way down page 269.

The previous culling I just posted stops short of page 269, after the following sentence:

"They have everything to lose and little to gain -- and they know it. That's how much of life is for Nomad/Reactive types."

Then starts up again half way down page 269 with:
  • As team-working Heroes replace Nomads in young adulthood, they challenge the political failure of elder-led crusades, fueling a society-wide secular crisis.

Maybe the version pbrower2a has is also missing matter?


So, I'm still missing a crucial chunk of material between:

"They have everything to lose and little to gain -- and they know it. That's how much of life is for Nomad/Reactive types."

AND

..."able over the ideal, midlife Nomads forge an effective alliance"..." (from the top of page 269 in my TPB)


Thanks ahead,

<*>aj

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."

        -  Antoine de Saint Exupery

RE: Need missing page 268 from Fourth Turning TPB - pbrower2a - 06-09-2016

I chose to paraphrase little about the post-Millennial generation other than my prediction that it would experience the Crisis Era largely from the sidelines. Much of what they say about the Homeland Generation was speculation then and is now obsolete. Until I find out something more about today's mid-teens, like whether their cultural tastes parallel those of early-wave Silent kids around 1940, I can't really say anything about the Homeland Generation.

RE: Need missing page 268 from Fourth Turning TPB - Aristotle Jones - 06-09-2016

(06-09-2016, 05:18 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: So you've monopolized my time, forcing me to wade through your unsolicited comments, and even after I winnow things down to the material you missed, instead of supplying it, you continue to drone on about things nobody asked for? It's not all about you, or your opinions. If they're that important to you, why don't you write your own book? I guess this is my fault for giving you the attention you've shown you don't deserve. For that reason, I won't be reading any more of your "replies".

Can anyone else provide me with the information I've asked for repeatedly?

Thanks ahead,

<*>aj

Once is happenstance,
Twice is coincidence,
Three times is enemy action.


RE: Need missing page 268 from Fourth Turning TPB - pbrower2a - 06-10-2016

In any event I try to avoid copyright violations. Verbatim copying is not my style.

RE: Need missing page 268 from Fourth Turning TPB - Aristotle Jones - 06-10-2016

(06-10-2016, 01:59 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: In any event I try to avoid copyright violations. Verbatim copying is not my style.

And how many decades have you worked in intellectual property?

If this isn't a perfect example of a legitimate exception and fair use, I don't know what is.

I now see why Neil tore down the previous news group, he was tired of dealing with fools, cowards and powerlusters.

Reason is not your style.

Tolerating idiots is not mine.

I quit.