Presidential election, 2016 - Printable Version +- Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory (http://generational-theory.com/forum) +-- Forum: Fourth Turning Forums (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-1.html) +--- Forum: Current Events (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-34.html) +---- Forum: General Political Discussion (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-15.html) +---- Thread: Presidential election, 2016 (/thread-24.html) |
RE: Presidential election, 2016 - Ragnarök_62 - 11-16-2016 (11-16-2016, 07:32 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: mv "Trickle-in electionomics: DROP all -- 1.4.4.0/24 anywhere DROP all -- 1.4.5.0/24 anywhere DROP all -- 1.4.6.0/23 anywhere DROP all -- 1.4.8.0/21 anywhere DROP all -- 1.4.16.0/20 anywhere DROP all -- 1.4.32.0/19 anywhere DROP all -- 1.4.64.0/18 anywhere DROP all -- 1.8.0.0/16 anywhere DROP all -- 1.10.0.0/21 anywhere DROP all -- 1.10.8.0/23 anywhere DROP all -- 1.10.11.0/24 anywhere DROP all -- 1.10.12.0/22 anywhere DROP all -- 1.10.16.0/20 anywhere DROP all -- 1.10.32.0/19 anywhere DROP all -- 1.10.64.0/18 anywhere DROP all -- 1.12.0.0/14 anywhere DROP all -- 1.24.0.0/13 anywhere DROP all -- 1.45.0.0/16 anywhere DROP all -- 1.48.0.0/15 anywhere DROP all -- 1.50.0.0/16 anywhere DROP all -- 1.51.0.0/16 anywhere DROP all -- 1.56.0.0/13 anywhere DROP all -- 1.68.0.0/14 anywhere RE: Presidential election, 2016 - Eric the Green - 11-17-2016 I would call this election the great outrage to democracy ever. And according to the article I linked to below, even Trump agrees! from Rebecca Solnit 9 hrs · Undemocracy. "Clinton has already won the popular vote by a dramatically larger number of ballots than anyone in history who did not go on to be inaugurated as president." John Nichols writes, "Coverage of the 2016 election campaign confirmed the extent to which major media is more interested in personalities than facts on the ground. The television networks like to declare a “winner” and then get focused on the palace intrigues surround a transition of power. Those intrigues are worth covering. But perspective on the will of the people get lost." He continues: "Trump will almost certainly stay above the 270 threshold, although he could still lose a state (such as Michigan, where he leads by less than 13,000 votes) or win one (such as New Hampshire, where Clinton is up by around 3,000 votes). The results in a number of battleground states were so close that a shift of around 55,000 votes in three states (Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin) would align the national popular vote result with the Electoral College result for a Clinton win. "What is important here is to recognize that there was no Trump mandate, in the popular vote (which he lost by a significant margin) or in the Electoral College (which he won narrowly, thanks to close results that tipped a handful of states in his favor). Notably, Trump’s total fell below 50 percent in the majority of states; he lost 20 states and the District of Columbia, and in at least seven additional states he leads but without a majority of the vote. IS CLINTON’S POPULAR-VOTE VICTORY UNPRECEDENTED? "Yes. Clinton has already won the popular vote by a dramatically larger number of ballots than anyone in history who did not go on to be inaugurated as president." Hillary Clinton’s Popular-Vote Victory Is Unprecedented—and Still Growing Her margin is now bigger than the winning margins for John Kennedy and Richard Nixon. By John Nichols https://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clintons-popular-vote-victory-is-unprecedented-and-still-growing/ Hillary Clinton now leads the national popular vote for president by roughly one million votes, and her victory margin is expanding rapidly. That margin could easily double before the end of an arduous process of counting ballots, reviewing results, and reconciling numbers for an official total. But one thing is certain: Clinton’s win is unprecedented in the modern history of American presidential politics. And the numbers should focus attention on the democratic dysfunction that has been exposed. When a candidate who wins the popular vote does not take office, when a loser is instead installed in the White House, that is an issue. And it raises questions that must be addressed. Eric's note: Note this little gem from the article: "The big distinction is between states that do most of their voting on Election Day and states that rely heavily on “absentee” ballots and mail voting. It happens that many of the bigger states that make it easier to vote (at the polls and by mail) are states that favored Clinton." Sure, and that's one reason they favor Clinton. THEY MAKE IT EASIER TO VOTE. Deliberate attempts by the Republicans to make it harder for non-whites to vote are the reason that Trump is right: THIS ELECTION WAS RIGGED! Mistrust in democracy fostered by the rigged elections of 2000, 2004 and 2016 do not bode well for respect for our system of democracy in this 4T. More from the article: What is important here is to recognize that there was no Trump mandate, in the popular vote (which he lost by a significant margin) or in the Electoral College (which he won narrowly, thanks to close results that tipped a handful of states in his favor). Notably, Trump’s total fell below 50 percent in the majority of states; he lost 20 states and the District of Columbia, and in at least seven additional states he leads, but without a majority of the vote. RE: Presidential election, 2016 - Eric the Green - 11-17-2016 NSA Chief: Nation-state made 'conscious effort' to sway US presidential election Business Insider PAUL SZOLDRA Nov 16th 2016 2:21PM http://www.aol.com/article/news/2016/11/16/nsa-chief-nation-state-made-conscious-effort-to-sway-us-presi/21607615/ The leader of the National Security Agency says there shouldn't be "any doubt in anybody's mind" that there was a conscious effort by a nation-state to sway the result of the 2016 presidential election. Adm. Michael Rogers, who leads both the NSA and US Cyber Command, made the comments in response to a question about Wikileaks' release of nearly 20,000 internal DNC emails during a conference presented by The Wall Street Journal. "There shouldn't be any doubt in anybody's minds," Rogers said. "This was not something that was done casually. This was not something that was done by chance. This was not a target that was selected purely arbitrarily. This was a conscious effort by a nation-state to attempt to achieve a specific effect." Rogers did not specify the nation-state or the specific effect, though US intelligence officials suspect Russia provided the emails to Wikileaks, after hackers stole them from inside DNC servers and the personal email account of Hillary Clinton's campaign manager, John Podesta. At least two different hacker groups associated with the Russian government were found inside the networks of the DNC over the past year, reading emails, chats, and downloading private documents. Many of those files were later released by Wikileaks. The hack, which was investigated by the FBI and cybersecurity firm Crowdstrike, was linked to Russia through a lengthy technical analysis, which was detailed on the firm's blog. Former NSA research scientist Dave Aitel, who now leads a cybersecurity firm, called the analysis "pretty dead on." The hack of Podesta's private Gmail address was traced back by cybersecurity researchers to hackers with Russia's foreign intelligence service, the GRU, since the group made a critical error during its campaign of "spear phishing" targets, tricking them into clicking on malicious links or give up their passwords. The firm, Dell SecureWorks, found the group had targeted more than 100 email addresses that were associated with the Clinton campaign, according to The New York Times. The Obama administration publicly accused Russia of being behind the hacks in October. RE: Presidential election, 2016 - Odin - 11-17-2016 (11-16-2016, 09:21 PM)taramarie Wrote: Possibly yes. Yes I heard some Bernie supporters went and voted for Trump. I am just very suspicious of people being lumped into groups as i view it in the same light as negative labels. Kind of feeds lazy stereotyping. Based on the demographics of the election results I suspect a lot of working class Bernie supporters stayed home on election day, this would explain why Trump's margins among working class whites was so high even though voter turnout was abysmal. RE: Presidential election, 2016 - Eric the Green - 11-17-2016 (11-17-2016, 01:11 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:(11-17-2016, 03:45 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: NSA Chief: Nation-state made 'conscious effort' to sway US presidential election The enemy is within the USA, not abroad. RE: Presidential election, 2016 - Bob Butler 54 - 11-17-2016 (11-17-2016, 02:44 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The enemy is within the USA, not abroad. There is nothing to say there is not more than one enemy. True, "We have met the enemy and they are us." Still, we can't focus entirely on internals. To some degree we aren't fighting enemies, we are fighting a principle. Nations tend not to get governments better than they deserve. RE: Presidential election, 2016 - Eric the Green - 11-17-2016 America First! Resist Trump and GOP first! RE: Presidential election, 2016 - Bob Butler 54 - 11-17-2016 (11-17-2016, 03:18 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: America First! Resist Trump and GOP first! So, what's the plan? Keep him so busy sending 3 AM twitter complaints about protesters that he hasn't got time to run (ruin) the country? RE: Presidential election, 2016 - Eric the Green - 11-17-2016 Well, that would be an easy thing to accomplish. Protests may certainly accomplish that goal, although it wouldn't work so well on Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell. As I pointed out before, people seem to forget we have 3 branches of government, all now empowered to do maximum harm and ruin of an equal and unprecedented degree between them. But as Reich pointed out in the video I posted, there's lots of paths that the people can take. No doubt the best we can hope now for is a revival of a Democratic Party progressive wing that can prevail or do well in future elections. If we're smart, and I don't know if we are, we will organize now and begin the resistance now, by any workable and non-criminal means necessary. I live in California, so I am lucky that I have a sane state government, and they can be pressured to take what action they can. I just wrote to my governor and state senator. Got to start somewhere. Where to go from there, I'm not sure at the moment. RE: Presidential election, 2016 - Classic-Xer - 11-17-2016 (11-17-2016, 03:18 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: America First! Resist Trump and GOP first! Illegal immigrants first! The future of the progressives and progressive politics first! RE: Presidential election, 2016 - Eric the Green - 11-17-2016 (11-17-2016, 04:48 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:(11-17-2016, 03:18 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: America First! Resist Trump and GOP first! Mammoth deficits and debt first! Oligarchs first! Phoney race-baiting free-market ideologies first! RE: Presidential election, 2016 - Odin - 11-17-2016 The Atlantic: How the Election Revealed the Divide Between City and Country Quote:The earthquake that elected Donald Trump has left the United States approaching 2020 with a political landscape reminiscent of 1920. RE: Presidential election, 2016 - Eric the Green - 11-17-2016 The main hope for Democrats in the future, is to have a candidate more appealing to the Obama coalition, and less-vulnerable to phony scandals, so they come out and vote; plus defeat, if possible, in the courts the Republican voter suppression of that coalition. Plus, to emphasize more the true populist message of taking wealth away from the tycoons and oligarchs and encouraging jobs to return and returning benefits to the people so the middle class can rise again, everywhere. And hope that at least a relatively few Trump voters respond to this message and return to the Democratic fold, or stay home; with all this just enough to swing the upper midwest and rust-belt states narrowly blue again. And that the Republican candidate has less appeal to the rural folk, who were encouraged both by Trump's prejudices and his promises, depending on which among them they were, so they don't come out and vote as much as they did for Trump. This candidate could possibly be Trump himself in 2020, if he fails to deliver on either or both his prejudices and his promises. "non-urban areas unifying behind (conservative) positions on almost all social issues." translation = prejudice; and authoritarian; pretty much! RE: Presidential election, 2016 - Ragnarök_62 - 11-17-2016 (11-17-2016, 06:34 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The main hope for Democrats in the future, .... rely on the past, man.http://www.duffelblog.com/2016/10/early-voting-data-shows-world-war-veterans-overwhelming-support-hillary-clinton/ duffleblog Wrote:WASHINGTON, D.C. — With over seven million votes cast so far in the U.S. presidential election, early voting data is pointing to a tight race in most key battleground states.There's nothing like channeling the dead to become undead and vote, Eric. RE: Presidential election, 2016 - Eric the Green - 11-17-2016 Despite Trump's urgent warnings, it looks like the ghost vote didn't turn out. I have some hope for reincarnation. Perhaps Leon Russell, Gwen Ifill, even Jerry Garcia, and Paul Kantner, and Jim Morrison, and Prince, and Michael Jackson, and the Kennedys and MLK Jr., and Malcolm X, and Muhammed Ali, and John Lennon, and Mama Cass and Papa John, and Laura Nyro; and Patrick McGoohan and Peter Falk, James Garner, and Robert Vaughn, and Rod Serling, and Roddenberry and Leonard Nimoy, and Dr. Spock and George McGovern and Hubert Humphrey and Eugene McCarthy, and Theodore Roszak and Tim Leary and Alan Watts, and Tom Hayden, Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, David Dellinger; all these folks who have left us so early, if they could just return as new men and women, maybe we'd have a chance. You know, back in the real world, when things were sane; more people returning from those days, and voting and speaking out.... RE: Presidential election, 2016 - Ragnarök_62 - 11-17-2016 (11-17-2016, 03:03 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken"(11-17-2016, 02:44 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The enemy is within the USA, not abroad. -----> Galen's .sig It's also 2 wolves and 1 sheep voting for what's for dinner. RE: Presidential election, 2016 - Eric the Green - 11-17-2016 Yes indeed. Hardly surprising that the wolves won. RE: Presidential election, 2016 - pbrower2a - 11-17-2016 Rural voters wanted to stick it to what they perceived as urban elites and found Donald Trump the clearest enemy of those elites. They voted for him so that the could hear those elites squeal. Now they get some delight. Of course I expect President Trump to give the shaft to anyone not already rich once he becomes President. But in doing so he would have several classes hostile to him in 2020. He would take the Republican Party down with him in 2020 should there be a free and fair election. RE: Presidential election, 2016 - Eric the Green - 11-18-2016 I finally found it: the real election results: http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php RE: Presidential election, 2016 - pbrower2a - 11-18-2016 (11-17-2016, 11:51 PM)taramarie Wrote: I am just going to leave this right here. But identity politics is nearly a surrogate for ideology in a country so polarized between center-left and Hard Right. It's who gets the goodies and who gets the shaft. For the next four years, the well-connected Right will get the rewards and everyone else will get taxed to support those rewards.. At the worst, consider (if without the serial mass murders of Saddam Hussein) Iraq under Saddam Hussein. If one was in the right side of the regime one could live up to standards characteristic of at least southern Europe. If not one was living under standards characteristic of India (except with great fear). Government worked for one or made life miserable in what proved an Apartheid system (Christians and non-Kurdish Sunni Muslims OK, Shiites and Kurds not OK). It's patronage or punishment. It looks as if Donald Trump will be a big-government Republican, using the Treasury to reward those to whom he made the biggest promises but cutting off government services that he can get away with cutting off aid to everyone else. That happened on a smaller scale with the younger Bush. |