(07-19-2016, 11:07 AM)disasterzone Wrote: What I don't understand is why Millennials seem to excuse groups when they make insults towards people but they don't seem to tolerate people fighting back and insulting them back. Instead we're supposed to be mature in the face of immaturity and be the better person while the other people win. If you let people get away with acting insulting towards you, then you create more of that behavior. I don't see why they think it's not worth it to argue with them. I really don't get it. It teaches them a lesson whereas walking away doesn't. In Xers it seems like they expect you to get thicker skin and tolerate it. It's like they want everyone to just brush everything off. They too don't understand the importance of teaching people lessons of respect.

(07-19-2016, 11:26 AM)MillsT_98 Wrote:

(07-19-2016, 11:07 AM)disasterzone Wrote: What I don't understand is why Millennials seem to excuse groups when they make insults towards people but they don't seem to tolerate people fighting back and insulting them back. Instead we're supposed to be mature in the face of immaturity and be the better person while the other people win. If you let people get away with acting insulting towards you, then you create more of that behavior. I don't see why they think it's not worth it to argue with them. I really don't get it. It teaches them a lesson whereas walking away doesn't. In Xers it seems like they expect you to get thicker skin and tolerate it. It's like they want everyone to just brush everything off. They too don't understand the importance of teaching people lessons of respect.

That's what my parents seem to think. When they criticize me, I'm supposed to brush it off (or change myself), but when I fight back, it's considered "disrespectful". As a Millennial growing up with Xer parents, it's frustrating.

disasterzone Wrote:

MillsT_98 Wrote:

disasterzone Wrote:What I don't understand is why Millennials seem to excuse groups when they make insults towards people but they don't seem to tolerate people fighting back and insulting them back. Instead we're supposed to be mature in the face of immaturity and be the better person while the other people win. If you let people get away with acting insulting towards you, then you create more of that behavior. I don't see why they think it's not worth it to argue with them. I really don't get it. It teaches them a lesson whereas walking away doesn't. In Xers it seems like they expect you to get thicker skin and tolerate it. It's like they want everyone to just brush everything off. They too don't understand the importance of teaching people lessons of respect.

That's what my parents seem to think. When they criticize me, I'm supposed to brush it off (or change myself), but when I fight back, it's considered "disrespectful". As a Millennial growing up with Xer parents, it's frustrating.

Yeah it's like a big proportion of Xers think toughening up is the solution to all fights like you don't have a right to be offended and show your offense. They think of it as entitled to complain about it.

I don't get the disrespectful bit. I mean if someone disrespects you, you have every right to be that way back. It doesn't make you just as bad as the other person because as far as I'm concerned, the other person started it. Being right means more to me than being mature. Ironically these attitudes encourage maltreatment because they know they can get away with it.

Odin Wrote:This is a big thing that annoys me about many Xers, they seem to think letting one self be fucked over by the Powers That Be is a good thing.

(07-20-2016, 11:42 AM)Skabungus Wrote:

Odin Wrote:This is a big thing that annoys me about many Xers, they seem to think letting one self be fucked over by the Powers That Be is a good thing.

No.  That'd be a wrong interpretation.  Xers don't think that's a good thing, and they have most of their life trajectory to point to as an example of why the think it is a bad thing.  Instead, Xers have learned first hand, that jumping up and down throwing temper tantrums and ranting that you are deeply offended is a glorious waste of time.  Thus, Xers would advise to work smarter, not harder.  Find an end run around the system.  Millies (reflecting heavily on the Boomer culture they so worship) tend to feel entitled, offended and predisposed to temper tantrums in response to people puncturing their world view.

(07-20-2016, 03:43 PM)Odin Wrote:

(07-20-2016, 11:42 AM)Skabungus Wrote:

Odin Wrote:This is a big thing that annoys me about many Xers, they seem to think letting one self be fucked over by the Powers That Be is a good thing.

No.  That'd be a wrong interpretation.  Xers don't think that's a good thing, and they have most of their life trajectory to point to as an example of why the think it is a bad thing.  Instead, Xers have learned first hand, that jumping up and down throwing temper tantrums and ranting that you are deeply offended is a glorious waste of time.  Thus, Xers would advise to work smarter, not harder.  Find an end run around the system.  Millies (reflecting heavily on the Boomer culture they so worship) tend to feel entitled, offended and predisposed to temper tantrums in response to people puncturing their world view.

But we're NOT just "jumping up and down throwing temper tantrums and ranting that you are deeply offended". Sure, that behavior is common among many college-age upper-middle class Millennials, but that is a class thing, not a generational thing.

And "finding an end run around the system" is a stereotypically Nomad thing, Civics prefer getting together and organizing a hostile takeover of the system. The fact that Bernie Sanders got as many votes as he did is because of organized collective action by Millennials.

(07-20-2016, 08:26 PM)MillsT_98 Wrote:

(07-20-2016, 03:43 PM)Odin Wrote:

(07-20-2016, 11:42 AM)Skabungus Wrote:

Odin Wrote:This is a big thing that annoys me about many Xers, they seem to think letting one self be fucked over by the Powers That Be is a good thing.

No.  That'd be a wrong interpretation.  Xers don't think that's a good thing, and they have most of their life trajectory to point to as an example of why the think it is a bad thing.  Instead, Xers have learned first hand, that jumping up and down throwing temper tantrums and ranting that you are deeply offended is a glorious waste of time.  Thus, Xers would advise to work smarter, not harder.  Find an end run around the system.  Millies (reflecting heavily on the Boomer culture they so worship) tend to feel entitled, offended and predisposed to temper tantrums in response to people puncturing their world view.

But we're NOT just "jumping up and down throwing temper tantrums and ranting that you are deeply offended". Sure, that behavior is common among many college-age upper-middle class Millennials, but that is a class thing, not a generational thing.

And "finding an end run around the system" is a stereotypically Nomad thing, Civics prefer getting together and organizing a hostile takeover of the system. The fact that Bernie Sanders got as many votes as he did is because of organized collective action by Millennials.

It's probably pragmatism you're talking about. We're going to need that in the 4T.

(07-20-2016, 09:12 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(07-20-2016, 08:26 PM)MillsT_98 Wrote:

(07-20-2016, 03:43 PM)Odin Wrote:

(07-20-2016, 11:42 AM)Skabungus Wrote:

Odin Wrote:This is a big thing that annoys me about many Xers, they seem to think letting one self be fucked over by the Powers That Be is a good thing.

No.  That'd be a wrong interpretation.  Xers don't think that's a good thing, and they have most of their life trajectory to point to as an example of why the think it is a bad thing.  Instead, Xers have learned first hand, that jumping up and down throwing temper tantrums and ranting that you are deeply offended is a glorious waste of time.  Thus, Xers would advise to work smarter, not harder.  Find an end run around the system.  Millies (reflecting heavily on the Boomer culture they so worship) tend to feel entitled, offended and predisposed to temper tantrums in response to people puncturing their world view.

But we're NOT just "jumping up and down throwing temper tantrums and ranting that you are deeply offended". Sure, that behavior is common among many college-age upper-middle class Millennials, but that is a class thing, not a generational thing.

And "finding an end run around the system" is a stereotypically Nomad thing, Civics prefer getting together and organizing a hostile takeover of the system. The fact that Bernie Sanders got as many votes as he did is because of organized collective action by Millennials.

It's probably pragmatism you're talking about. We're going to need that in the 4T.

I first resort to trying to get favor from the higher ups through brown nosing. I don't try to change the system but try to get what I want within the system by befriending the right people and using system loopholes other people don't typically read about. If that doesn't work I complain very loudly. If the system seems absolutely hopeless to change for me, I find a workaround because it's pointless to wait for something that may never come. It's better to get things done fast and utilize as many resources and methods as possible. What generation does this sound?

(07-20-2016, 09:20 PM)MillsT_98 Wrote:

(07-20-2016, 09:12 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(07-20-2016, 08:26 PM)MillsT_98 Wrote:

(07-20-2016, 03:43 PM)Odin Wrote:

(07-20-2016, 11:42 AM)Skabungus Wrote: No.  That'd be a wrong interpretation.  Xers don't think that's a good thing, and they have most of their life trajectory to point to as an example of why the think it is a bad thing.  Instead, Xers have learned first hand, that jumping up and down throwing temper tantrums and ranting that you are deeply offended is a glorious waste of time.  Thus, Xers would advise to work smarter, not harder.  Find an end run around the system.  Millies (reflecting heavily on the Boomer culture they so worship) tend to feel entitled, offended and predisposed to temper tantrums in response to people puncturing their world view.

But we're NOT just "jumping up and down throwing temper tantrums and ranting that you are deeply offended". Sure, that behavior is common among many college-age upper-middle class Millennials, but that is a class thing, not a generational thing.

And "finding an end run around the system" is a stereotypically Nomad thing, Civics prefer getting together and organizing a hostile takeover of the system. The fact that Bernie Sanders got as many votes as he did is because of organized collective action by Millennials.

It's probably pragmatism you're talking about. We're going to need that in the 4T.

I first resort to trying to get favor from the higher ups through brown nosing. I don't try to change the system but try to get what I want within the system by befriending the right people and using system loopholes other people don't typically read about. If that doesn't work I complain very loudly. If the system seems absolutely hopeless to change for me, I find a workaround because it's pointless to wait for something that may never come. It's better to get things done fast and utilize as many resources and methods as possible. What generation does this sound?

That probably sounds like X to me, not that I have much personal experience with what you just described, but that sounds like something Generation X would do.

Disasterzone Wrote:I first resort to trying to get favor from the higher ups through brown nosing. I don't try to change the system but try to get what I want within the system by befriending the right people and using system loopholes other people don't typically read about. If that doesn't work I complain very loudly. If the system seems absolutely hopeless to change for me, I find a workaround because it's pointless to wait for something that may never come. It's better to get things done fast and utilize as many resources and methods as possible. What generation does this sound?

(07-20-2016, 10:16 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(07-20-2016, 09:51 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

Disasterzone Wrote:I first resort to trying to get favor from the higher ups through brown nosing. I don't try to change the system but try to get what I want within the system by befriending the right people and using system loopholes other people don't typically read about. If that doesn't work I complain very loudly. If the system seems absolutely hopeless to change for me, I find a workaround because it's pointless to wait for something that may never come. It's better to get things done fast and utilize as many resources and methods as possible. What generation does this sound?

Easy.  That is exactly how my Silent father behaved on the job.
1. Brown nose the higher ups.
2. Befriend people he could use to get ahead.
3. Found pretty much every loophole.  Hey, he got a masters in mathematics.  Smart lab mice can also find their way through mazes...
4. If he didn't get his way, he complained very loudly, especially at home.  That's why I remember it so well.
5. Hmmm... "It's better to get things done fast and utilize as many resources and methods as possible..."  Definitely channeling my dad on that one.
6. Silents are very bad about this "keep up with the Jones thing" .

So you're a Homelander. Artists generations are silent on the outside but deadly on the inside. 

I actually instantly pictured silent when reading Disaster's description. Glad you picked up on it too.

(07-20-2016, 11:25 PM)taramarie Wrote: I think Disaster is keeping it a secret. I thought he/she is a millie like us.

Odin Wrote:

Skabungus Wrote:

Odin Wrote:This is a big thing that annoys me about many Xers, they seem to think letting one self be fucked over by the Powers That Be is a good thing.

No.  That'd be a wrong interpretation.  Xers don't think that's a good thing, and they have most of their life trajectory to point to as an example of why the think it is a bad thing.  Instead, Xers have learned first hand, that jumping up and down throwing temper tantrums and ranting that you are deeply offended is a glorious waste of time.  Thus, Xers would advise to work smarter, not harder.  Find an end run around the system.  Millies (reflecting heavily on the Boomer culture they so worship) tend to feel entitled, offended and predisposed to temper tantrums in response to people puncturing their world view.

But we're NOT just "jumping up and down throwing temper tantrums and ranting that you are deeply offended". Sure, that behavior is common among many college-age upper-middle class Millennials, but that is a class thing, not a generational thing.

And "finding an end run around the system" is a stereotypically Nomad thing, Civics prefer getting together and organizing a hostile takeover of the system. The fact that Bernie Sanders got as many votes as he did is because of organized collective action by Millennials.

(07-19-2016, 02:57 PM)Skabungus Wrote:

disasterzone Wrote:

MillsT_98 Wrote:

disasterzone Wrote:What I don't understand is why Millennials seem to excuse groups when they make insults towards people but they don't seem to tolerate people fighting back and insulting them back. Instead we're supposed to be mature in the face of immaturity and be the better person while the other people win. If you let people get away with acting insulting towards you, then you create more of that behavior. I don't see why they think it's not worth it to argue with them. I really don't get it. It teaches them a lesson whereas walking away doesn't. In Xers it seems like they expect you to get thicker skin and tolerate it. It's like they want everyone to just brush everything off. They too don't understand the importance of teaching people lessons of respect.

That's what my parents seem to think. When they criticize me, I'm supposed to brush it off (or change myself), but when I fight back, it's considered "disrespectful". As a Millennial growing up with Xer parents, it's frustrating.

Yeah it's like a big proportion of Xers think toughening up is the solution to all fights like you don't have a right to be offended and show your offense. They think of it as entitled to complain about it.

I don't get the disrespectful bit. I mean if someone disrespects you, you have every right to be that way back. It doesn't make you just as bad as the other person because as far as I'm concerned, the other person started it. Being right means more to me than being mature. Ironically these attitudes encourage maltreatment because they know they can get away with it.

1. Rise above.  "I mean if someone disrespects you, you have every right to be that way back. It doesn't make you just as bad as the other person because as far as I'm concerned, the other person started it."   Well, that is one way to handle it.  That is perhaps less than effective.  It is a tit for tat approach, an eye for an eye strategy that goes nowhere.  Instead of attacking in kind, rise above and understand that because someone attacks you, it doesn't mean they are right, or that they win, it just means they attacked you.  Nothing more.  If you are going to respond, certainly don't adopt the same tactic.  Rather, use your intellect to form a more sound argument, present it and be done with it, knowing all along that you are very unlikely to change their minds.

2. Being offended is so droll.  If you are worried about being offended you live on the wrong planet.  If someone offends you, speak your mind and then be done with them.  You don't have any special privilege that entitles you to go through life without being offended.  I see and hear offensive stuff all the time.  I get to choose how much attention I give it.  So do you. 

3. Sometimes you don't get the right of rebuttal.  When you pay the rent, you can bitch about the house and the chores.  When you pay for the car, you get to bitch about the gas, the maintenance of the car and the cost of the insurance.  Until then you owe respect to the person granting you the roof, the car keys and the gas money.  Sometimes you need to show a little respect.  It goes a long way.

4. I encounter new employees (Millies) that are simply shocked and even outraged that an upper level administrator can tell them to do/not do something and expect they will comply post haste.  Said new employees sometimes feel they have a right to rebuttal, a right to object loudly and (this one is really funny) simply refuse to do it.  Wrong.  Unless what you are being asked to do is a clear violation of law or policy or ethics, you better get your ass in gear with a "yessir" or "yes [insert title here]".  New employees often labor under the false assumption that, since they completed a degree, and actually got hired, that they know just as well as the next guy what the situation demands.  They are willing to dismiss the 20+ years of experience gained by their workmates and higher ups since, after all, they've been told how smart they are since they crawled outta da crib.  "Youthful arrogance" leads them to passionate, often loud and indignant, displays that do them no good, and often convince their older workmates to cease supporting/training/helping them. 

There you have it.

(07-20-2016, 11:42 AM)Skabungus Wrote:

Odin Wrote:This is a big thing that annoys me about many Xers, they seem to think letting one self be fucked over by the Powers That Be is a good thing.

No.  That'd be a wrong interpretation.  Xers don't think that's a good thing, and they have most of their life trajectory to point to as an example of why the think it is a bad thing.  Instead, Xers have learned first hand, that jumping up and down throwing temper tantrums and ranting that you are deeply offended is a glorious waste of time.  Thus, Xers would advise to work smarter, not harder.  Find an end run around the system.  Millies (reflecting heavily on the Boomer culture they so worship) tend to feel entitled, offended and predisposed to temper tantrums in response to people puncturing their world view.

(07-20-2016, 09:20 PM)MillsT_98 Wrote:

(07-20-2016, 09:12 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(07-20-2016, 08:26 PM)MillsT_98 Wrote:

(07-20-2016, 03:43 PM)Odin Wrote:

(07-20-2016, 11:42 AM)Skabungus Wrote: No.  That'd be a wrong interpretation.  Xers don't think that's a good thing, and they have most of their life trajectory to point to as an example of why the think it is a bad thing.  Instead, Xers have learned first hand, that jumping up and down throwing temper tantrums and ranting that you are deeply offended is a glorious waste of time.  Thus, Xers would advise to work smarter, not harder.  Find an end run around the system.  Millies (reflecting heavily on the Boomer culture they so worship) tend to feel entitled, offended and predisposed to temper tantrums in response to people puncturing their world view.

But we're NOT just "jumping up and down throwing temper tantrums and ranting that you are deeply offended". Sure, that behavior is common among many college-age upper-middle class Millennials, but that is a class thing, not a generational thing.

And "finding an end run around the system" is a stereotypically Nomad thing, Civics prefer getting together and organizing a hostile takeover of the system. The fact that Bernie Sanders got as many votes as he did is because of organized collective action by Millennials.

It's probably pragmatism you're talking about. We're going to need that in the 4T.

I first resort to trying to get favor from the higher ups through brown nosing. I don't try to change the system but try to get what I want within the system by befriending the right people and using system loopholes other people don't typically read about. If that doesn't work I complain very loudly. If the system seems absolutely hopeless to change for me, I find a workaround because it's pointless to wait for something that may never come. It's better to get things done fast and utilize as many resources and methods as possible. What generation does this sound?

That probably sounds like X to me, not that I have much personal experience with what you just described, but that sounds like something Generation X would do.

(07-24-2016, 09:03 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: I've been spending my free time actively campaigning for Donald Trump instead of posting here.

(07-24-2016, 09:08 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(07-20-2016, 09:20 PM)MillsT_98 Wrote:

(07-20-2016, 09:12 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(07-20-2016, 08:26 PM)MillsT_98 Wrote:

(07-20-2016, 03:43 PM)Odin Wrote: But we're NOT just "jumping up and down throwing temper tantrums and ranting that you are deeply offended". Sure, that behavior is common among many college-age upper-middle class Millennials, but that is a class thing, not a generational thing.

I was always under the impression that the civic generations are more the team players and conformists, and it was the Boomers and their ilk that threw the tantrums and wanted to question each and every thing. I grew up at that time and still subscribe to some of that today. If we don't question, that won't nothing change for the better?
And "finding an end run around the system" is a stereotypically Nomad thing, Civics prefer getting together and organizing a hostile takeover of the system. The fact that Bernie Sanders got as many votes as he did is because of organized collective action by Millennials.

It's probably pragmatism you're talking about. We're going to need that in the 4T.

I first resort to trying to get favor from the higher ups through brown nosing. I don't try to change the system but try to get what I want within the system by befriending the right people and using system loopholes other people don't typically read about. If that doesn't work I complain very loudly. If the system seems absolutely hopeless to change for me, I find a workaround because it's pointless to wait for something that may never come. It's better to get things done fast and utilize as many resources and methods as possible. What generation does this sound?

That probably sounds like X to me, not that I have much personal experience with what you just described, but that sounds like something Generation X would do.

Gen X does not have any particular style of how to work the system.  Other than of course trying to work the system itself.  The fact is we do what works.  If brown nosing works we do that, if that doesn't work but raising a ruckus does we do that, if that doesn't work but more subtle tactics work we do that instead.

The key to understanding Nomad Generations and X in particular (as we are the nomad generation in a Mega-Unraveling saeculum) is that we are tribal, pragmatic and are results oriented.

(07-24-2016, 12:02 PM)Odin Wrote:

(07-24-2016, 09:03 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: I've been spending my free time actively campaigning for Donald Trump instead of posting here.

Then when the Trumpist version of the Night of The Long Knives happens, you, Milo, and all the other gay fascists are going to get purged just like Röhm was.