Plato: How Democracy Ends - Printable Version +- Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory (http://generational-theory.com/forum) +-- Forum: Fourth Turning Forums (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-1.html) +--- Forum: Theory Related Political Discussions (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-14.html) +--- Thread: Plato: How Democracy Ends (/thread-327.html) |
Plato: How Democracy Ends - Bob Butler 54 - 07-25-2016 New York magazine put up a lengthy post that doesn't quite endorse cyclical history but pretty darn close. Disastrous culture shattering events happen about when the people die off that remember the last such disaster. One mechanism mentioned in the article is a tendency for tyranny to follow democracy. At a time when the most freedom and equality triumph, when the many are the most free, when the elite are least potent, that is the time when a narcissistic demagogue will rise, blame some other race or culture for not so serious problems, and bring the whole thing down. Originator of the theory? Plato. Reason the United States lasted so long as a democracy? The founding fathers read Plato. They put certain mechanisms in the Constitution, now fading in influence, that kept the elite in power. Theme of the article? Trump is Hitler. Doom and the destruction of civilization as we know it is coming. It's worth a read. Democracies end... when they are too democratic RE: Plato: How Democracy Ends - David Horn - 07-25-2016 (07-25-2016, 12:53 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: New York magazine put up a lengthy post that doesn't quite endorse cyclical history but pretty darn close. Disastrous culture shattering events happen about when the people die off that remember the last such disaster. One mechanism mentioned in the article is a tendency for tyranny to follow democracy. At a time when the most freedom and equality triumph, when the many are the most free, when the elite are least potent, that is the time when a narcissistic demagogue will rise, blame some other race or culture for not so serious problems, and bring the whole thing down. I read an op-ed in my local paper that had many of the hallmarks of pre-war Nazi propaganda. The paper prints anything that not outright incendiary, so I'm not shocked by that so much as the fact that anyone would actually write it. The Roanoke Time on Sunday July 24th Wrote: RE: Plato: How Democracy Ends - bosboreas - 08-24-2016 I think Mr. Sander's appeal to make an America that fits the Nordic model is the way forward. The only ? is which shall we choose the House of Oldenburg or the House of Bernadotte? RE: Plato: How Democracy Ends - Eric the Green - 08-24-2016 It's obvious that many so-called "Christians" attribute their regressive and intolerant beliefs to their religion, and dismiss other Christians who do not share their beliefs as "unbiblical" or some such malarcky. They are entitled to their opinions and beliefs, but distortions of the facts, which they make, are subject to correction. Not that they listen to these corrections, but Americans should listen to them. RE: Plato: How Democracy Ends - Mikebert - 11-25-2016 Scary article by Steven Walt in Foreign Policy http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/23/ten-ways-to-tell-if-your-president-is-a-dictator/ RE: Plato: How Democracy Ends - pbrower2a - 11-25-2016 (11-25-2016, 11:18 AM)Mikebert Wrote: Scary article by Steven Walt in Foreign Policy Ten Ways to Tell if Your President Is a Dictator -- listed in the event that the article is no longer available or you dither on reading the article: 1. Muzzling the media. The earliest warning is his stated desire to make lawsuits for libel of media easier to initiate and win libel suits against hostile reporters and editors. 2. Building a sympathetic media network. So FoX News is too unreliable for his purposes? Who'd a thunk it? 3. Politicizing the civil service, military, National Guard, and law enforcement. Just think of how much easier it will be if the IRS targets dissidents, the Postal Service refuses to deliver mail by or to identified dissidents or rivals, Keitel*-like flunkies advance rapidly in the Armed Forces, and if police commanders had the guts to mow down peaceful protesters. 4. Government surveillance of domestic opponents. Just think of the CIA given authority to spy on Americans or some new agency given such authority. Welcome to a mirror image of the Soviet Union, only ultra-capitalist and for right-wing Christianity. 5. Using state power to reward supporters and punish opponents. Corruption through connections -- supporters get richer at expense of those who fail to comply. 6. Stacking the Supreme Court -- filling openings with legal cronies and fanatics. Look at his cabinet choices and ask yourself whether you expect anything different. 7. Enforcing the law for only one side. Remember -- justice is fair and impartial or it is a tool of oppression and political control. 8. Really rigging the system. Intensification of voter suppression and gerrymandering. 9. Fear-mongering. Racial, religious, and ethnic bigotry; attacks on cultural expressions that he considers hostile to his politics as treasonable. 10. Demonizing the opposition. Showing the world, including critical parts of American life, as parts of a hostile conspiracy against the rightful American way for mass attacks in media and for official persecution. *Field-Marshal Wilhelm Keitel (1882-1946), Chief of the Staff of the German Army just before and during World War II, who destroyed the political independence of the German Army, planned Nazi aggression, and ordered the German Army to participate in crimes against humanity including the Holocaust. Utterly incompetent for service beyond the level of a junior officer, he never questioned the wisdom of the Fuehrer. A week after Hitler offed himself in his bunker, he signed the official surrender of Germany to the Soviet Union, probably the only decent thing he ever did as a senior officer. He was soon arrested by the Allies and tried in the main Nuremberg trial on counts of Crimes Against Peace, Conventional War Crimes, and Crimes Against Humanity; his sole defense was the "superior orders" claim rejected by the Allies. He was convicted of monstrous crimes and executed by hanging. |