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+--- Thread: Driverless Cars: Unsafe At Any Speed? (/thread-444.html)
Driverless Cars: Unsafe At Any Speed? - Dan '82 - 09-15-2016
http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2016/09/15/driverless-cars-unsafe-at-any-speed/
Quote:In response to a high-profile crash that killed a Tesla driver, CEO Elon Musk has announced that the company will upgrade its Autopilot function. But will a simple upgrade do the job? While the race to produce fully autonomous vehicles is being breathlessly heralded by the media, vast cost, legal, and security obstacles remain. More importantly, the fundamental limitations of AI technology will make the journey from semiautonomous to fully autonomous much more difficult than most people realize.
The race to bring autonomous vehicles into commercial production has accelerated. In March, GM bought self-driving startup Cruise Automation for $1 billion. In May, Toyota and Uber joined forces, Apple invested $1 billion into Chinese ride-sharing company Didi Chuxing, and Google partnered with Fiat Chrysler. Uber, meanwhile, has rolled out a pilot program to test self-driving cars in Pittsburgh. Google is even determined to create a car without a steering wheel or pedals. These players are betting heavily on transforming the $5.4 trillion transportation services market. While Tesla proclaims that it will have autonomous vehicles commercially available by 2018, BMW is planning for 2021...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2016/09/15/driverless-cars-unsafe-at-any-speed/
RE: Driverless Cars: Unsafe At Any Speed? - pbrower2a - 09-16-2016
(09-15-2016, 07:54 PM)Dan Wrote: http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2016/09/15/driverless-cars-unsafe-at-any-speed/
Quote:In response to a high-profile crash that killed a Tesla driver, CEO Elon Musk has announced that the company will upgrade its Autopilot function. But will a simple upgrade do the job? While the race to produce fully autonomous vehicles is being breathlessly heralded by the media, vast cost, legal, and security obstacles remain. More importantly, the fundamental limitations of AI technology will make the journey from semiautonomous to fully autonomous much more difficult than most people realize.
The race to bring autonomous vehicles into commercial production has accelerated. In March, GM bought self-driving startup Cruise Automation for $1 billion. In May, Toyota and Uber joined forces, Apple invested $1 billion into Chinese ride-sharing company Didi Chuxing, and Google partnered with Fiat Chrysler. Uber, meanwhile, has rolled out a pilot program to test self-driving cars in Pittsburgh. Google is even determined to create a car without a steering wheel or pedals. These players are betting heavily on transforming the $5.4 trillion transportation services market. While Tesla proclaims that it will have autonomous vehicles commercially available by 2018, BMW is planning for 2021...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2016/09/15/driverless-cars-unsafe-at-any-speed/
We can say all we want about crashes involving the lives of persons in the car. but what of collisions with pedestrians? In driver's training I was told "Stop for a ball going into the road" because such indicated that a child was likely to run thoughtlessly into the street to retrieve it. How will the car respond to that? Add to that, there will be drunks stumbling about into the street into the path of an oncoming car.
Some four-legged pedestrians pose their own hazards. You absolutely do not want to hit a pig (it will roll your car), or such heavy high-profile animals as cattle, horses, or elk that might be thrown into the windshield and hence the passenger compartment. A raccoon or a woodchuck? If it is thrust into the engine compartment it can do great harm to the engine compartment. Panic stops are potentially dangerous...
RE: Driverless Cars: Unsafe At Any Speed? - tg63 - 09-16-2016
as long as those scenarios and/or similar ones are included in the training processes (and I don't know why they wouldn't be - if we can think of them, they should be included), the car should react the same way a human would.
RE: Driverless Cars: Unsafe At Any Speed? - The Wonkette - 09-16-2016
(09-16-2016, 04:26 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:(09-15-2016, 07:54 PM)Dan Wrote: http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2016/09/15/driverless-cars-unsafe-at-any-speed/
Quote:In response to a high-profile crash that killed a Tesla driver, CEO Elon Musk has announced that the company will upgrade its Autopilot function. But will a simple upgrade do the job? While the race to produce fully autonomous vehicles is being breathlessly heralded by the media, vast cost, legal, and security obstacles remain. More importantly, the fundamental limitations of AI technology will make the journey from semiautonomous to fully autonomous much more difficult than most people realize.
The race to bring autonomous vehicles into commercial production has accelerated. In March, GM bought self-driving startup Cruise Automation for $1 billion. In May, Toyota and Uber joined forces, Apple invested $1 billion into Chinese ride-sharing company Didi Chuxing, and Google partnered with Fiat Chrysler. Uber, meanwhile, has rolled out a pilot program to test self-driving cars in Pittsburgh. Google is even determined to create a car without a steering wheel or pedals. These players are betting heavily on transforming the $5.4 trillion transportation services market. While Tesla proclaims that it will have autonomous vehicles commercially available by 2018, BMW is planning for 2021...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2016/09/15/driverless-cars-unsafe-at-any-speed/
We can say all we want about crashes involving the lives of persons in the car. but what of collisions with pedestrians? In driver's training I was told "Stop for a ball going into the road" because such indicated that a child was likely to run thoughtlessly into the street to retrieve it. How will the car respond to that? Add to that, there will be drunks stumbling about into the street into the path of an oncoming car.
Some four-legged pedestrians pose their own hazards. You absolutely do not want to hit a pig (it will roll your car), or such heavy high-profile animals as cattle, horses, or elk that might be thrown into the windshield and hence the passenger compartment. A raccoon or a woodchuck? If it is thrust into the engine compartment it can do great harm to the engine compartment. Panic stops are potentially dangerous...
I once hit a 100 pound dog. I was about 2 blocks from my house going about 15 miles per hour in a residential area when a huge dog bounded into my car side. I was driving a little Toyota Tercel at the time (roughly the size of today's Yaris). I was horrified and so was the owner, whose dog had run loose from the house. As it turned out, the dog was fine, my car had a dent, the owner apologized profusely, and she had their insurance pay for the dent to be fixed! What a strange incident!
RE: Driverless Cars: Unsafe At Any Speed? - Ragnarök_62 - 09-16-2016
self driving vehicles + IOT + hacking + bugs = comet
RE: Driverless Cars: Unsafe At Any Speed? - pbrower2a - 09-16-2016
(09-16-2016, 05:26 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: Autonomous vehicle horror scene.
Autonomous combine working its way through the harvest. Kids playing in the field. One of them gets bonked on the head and passes out. A good farmer has a chance of seeing the kid in time. A robot? Hmmmmm ...
I live in the Corn Belt. Every farmer has the dread that there will be something that the farmer never sees getting hit and killed. Radar could detect a child (or dog, deer, or pig) and give a fair warning to the farmer running the machine.
RE: Driverless Cars: Unsafe At Any Speed? - beechnut79 - 06-04-2022
Definitely don't want to see this futuristic trend take shape. See it as a disaster waiting to happen. However, if they can eventually be made foolproof safe, it might result in unclogging the highways as one can order a car whenever it was really needed.
Any of you surprised that the public has not only put up with but encouraged mass congestion for so many years now? Would have thought that the big gasoline shortage nearly a half century ago would have a been a big wake-up call, but it wasn't.
RE: Driverless Cars: Unsafe At Any Speed? - pbrower2a - 01-03-2023
Imminent collision: vehicle stops.
Driverless vehicles will mandate more divided highways complete with barriers.
The only valid use for autopilot on the road is on the high-speed multilane highways that have few possibilities of collisions. In other situations one needs an honest-to-God, alert person to drive the car or truck in the event that someone does anything other than follow some other course of driving (like making a left turn).
Is it possible to create a program that allows an automated vehicle to stop when (a classic warning in driver's education) a ball goes into the street? (The idea is that a child is likely to chase the ball, disregarding vehicles).
RE: Driverless Cars: Unsafe At Any Speed? - David Horn - 01-03-2023
(01-03-2023, 01:56 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Imminent collision: vehicle stops.
Driverless vehicles will mandate more divided highways complete with barriers.
The only valid use for autopilot on the road is on the high-speed multilane highways that have few possibilities of collisions. In other situations one needs an honest-to-God, alert person to drive the car or truck in the event that someone does anything other than follow some other course of driving (like making a left turn).
Is it possible to create a program that allows an automated vehicle to stop when (a classic warning in driver's education) a ball goes into the street? (The idea is that a child is likely to chase the ball, disregarding vehicles).
Today's best AI tech is the ChatBot. They are designed to learn and, properly linked with other ChatBots, can share their learning directly. This is the process that gets you where you wanted to be: capable of understanding even disjointed human behavior. Assume the tech will migrate quickly to other uses, self-driving cars being one.
RE: Driverless Cars: Unsafe At Any Speed? - pbrower2a - 01-05-2023
Driverless vehicles could greatly reduce the chances of sideswipes and could prevent tailgating. They could keep cars from drifting into another lane. They might prevent dangerous tailgating. Taking stupidity out of the drive is a good idea. Accommodating a driver who has such a problem as slow reflexes would be a good idea.
Remember that driving a car effectively requires a certain level of intellectual competence, which explains the written test. The average lid who just turned 16 has the level of intellectual acuity of a full adult with an IQ of 80. Written tests are the easy part for an average adult or an above-average 16-year-old. They are well-disguised IQ tests whose theme is driving a car, The equivalent of an IQ of 80 for an adult is just low enough to allow dull-normal adults to drive to a job suited for a dull-normal person while recognizing that conformity is a good idea in normal traffic.
Self-driving cars as a concept implies in practice that someone else sets standards for driving. So we preclude sideswipes, tailgating, and driving too fast for conditions. Feedback to a driver may be part of the new norm, as in a voice that says "Consider stopping for the night. You have 30 minutes left".
RE: Driverless Cars: Unsafe At Any Speed? - pbrower2a - 01-05-2023
I forget to mention explicitly that at times we need a transition such as that the car monitors a driver's performance.