+- Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory (http://generational-theory.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Fourth Turning Forums (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Theories Of History (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-7.html)
+--- Thread: Anacyclosis (256 years cycle / 12 Generation / 3 Saeculum) (/thread-4686.html)
Anacyclosis (256 years cycle / 12 Generation / 3 Saeculum) - Mark40 - 02-12-2018
Here is a graphic showing a personal point of view of the Anacyclosis described by Polybius in relation with Strauss-Howe Theory.
Elements concerning psychological cycle are missing (that Matrix can be divided in 32 parts / defense mechanism / personnality types / related to each part of history).
![[Image: Anacyclosis.png]](https://image.ibb.co/dTs6mS/Anacyclosis.png)
RE: Anacyclosis (256 years cycle / 12 Generation / 3 Saeculum) - Mark40 - 02-13-2018
In that Matrix or Political Cycle (Anacyclosis) :
1776 is opposed to 1905 (128 years) American Revolution / Russian Revolution
1789 is opposed to 1917 (128 years) French Revolution / Bolshevik Revolution
1848 is opposed to 1973 (125 years) Industrial Revolution / Oil Crisis
1861 is opposed to 1989 (128 years) Secession War / Fall of USSR
1880 is opposed to 2008 (128 years) Economic Crisis
RE: Anacyclosis (256 years cycle / 12 Generation / 3 Saeculum) - pbrower2a - 02-14-2018
Because the generational cycle seems to have a basis in human experience and psychological realities that manifest themselves in politics, economic behavior, and cultural expression and can link the Howe and Strauss theory to a predictable life cycle of collecting memories in childhood, establishing roles in life that fit openings, expressing oneself in ways that meet psychic needs not met by parents or the overall society, and resisting what one feared from childhood throughout one's life, and of course losing all influence in senility in death, I find any cycle that takes much more than a long human lifetime suspect -- except perhaps the pattern that Arnold Toynbee finds in civilizations as the defining unit.
Toynbee offers no rigid schedule for the birth and death of a civilization, but he recognizes a particularly destructive time that indicates the impending doom of the civilization -- the Universal State that encompasses the entire civilization, crushes intellectual creativity and political pluralism, homogenizes national identity while imposing severe and rigid hierarchies, and loses its flexibility. Doom for Classical civilization came with the establishment of the Roman Empire as ann oppressive domain consolidating the whole of classical civilization. Toynbee has suggested that all extinct civilizations have gone through this pattern, and that ours will be no exception.
Western Christian Civilization has had plenty of candidates to be the Universal State -- the Habsburg dominnions of Austria and Spain, the Ottoman Empire (the oppressors can be from outside, and the Ottoman Empire did reach Vienna in 1683), Napoleonic France, Germany under Kaiser Wilhelm II, Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union... and if America goes bad, it could be next in line to be the core of an Evil Empire. The Universal State is able to stop change, but all that it really achieves is to preserve rot that ultimately undermines the system and causes its disintegration.
There is no rigid schedule for the rise and fall of a civilization. Ours, which got its start with responses to the Saracen and Viking raids to establish a political order and a culture to go with it, is now about 1300 years old. It is not a continuation of Classical civilization even if it has learned much from it, as its centers have included places either on the fringe of the old Roman Empire (modern-day France was a backwater, England is very different from the Roman-Celtic world of Britain; most of Germany lies outside of the borders of the old Roman Empire, and Ireland, Scandinavia and Poland were never parts of the Roman Empire). That is before I discuss the Americas.
Wes
RE: Anacyclosis (256 years cycle / 12 Generation / 3 Saeculum) - Eric the Green - 02-14-2018
Close to one cycle of Pluto every 248-plus years, and a bit more than half the Neptune-Pluto synodic conjunction cycle of 493 years.
I think the three-stroke mega-cycle is a good idea.
RE: Anacyclosis (256 years cycle / 12 Generation / 3 Saeculum) - Mark40 - 02-15-2018
A Saeculum is a 1/3 of 256 years or 86 years like Uranus cycle. There is correlations based on symmetry. Symmetry is the key that unlock the mysteries of nature.
I believe in synchronicity, symmetrical patterns, geometry and scientific astrology.
Here another graphic, but i'm not sure if it begin in 1789 or 1776.
![[Image: Matrix2.png]](https://image.ibb.co/h6Yb6S/Matrix2.png)
For astrological purpose :
The Four Quadra are the Four Season
Anarcho-Communism - Spring
Communism - Summer
Fascism - Autumn
Anarchism, Winter
1904 correspond to August 22
1925 to September 22
1946 to October 22
1989 to December 22
1776 to February 20
1861 to June 22
RE: Anacyclosis (256 years cycle / 12 Generation / 3 Saeculum) - pbrower2a - 02-15-2018
Orbital periods of the major planets in Earth years:
Jupiter 11.86
Saturn 29.46
Uranus 84.01
Neptune 164.8
Three orbits of Saturn clearly get one to old age at 88.38 years. One orbit of Uranus does, too, at 84.01. Seven of Jupiter get one to 84.02 years. One orbit of Jupiter is enough to get one through the twelve numbered grades of public school in the US. One orbit of Saturn is enough to get from birth to completing the preliminaries for careers in medicine or law. Uranus? Most people do not live long enough to survive a full orbit.
Neptune? I can't see any natural cycle that matches or approaches the time of its orbit.
RE: Anacyclosis (256 years cycle / 12 Generation / 3 Saeculum) - Mark40 - 02-15-2018
Very interesting...that orbital periods.
RE: Anacyclosis (256 years cycle / 12 Generation / 3 Saeculum) - pbrower2a - 02-15-2018
(02-15-2018, 04:56 AM)Mark40 Wrote: Very interesting...that orbital periods.
The amazing power of coincidence... of course the planets are nearly in resonance. Anything else would imply unstable orbits.
RE: Anacyclosis (256 years cycle / 12 Generation / 3 Saeculum) - Ghost - 08-15-2019
(02-15-2018, 03:05 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Orbital periods of the major planets in Earth years:
Jupiter 11.86
Saturn 29.46
Uranus 84.01
Neptune 164.8
Three orbits of Saturn clearly get one to old age at 88.38 years. One orbit of Uranus does, too, at 84.01. Seven of Jupiter get one to 84.02 years. One orbit of Jupiter is enough to get one through the twelve numbered grades of public school in the US. One orbit of Saturn is enough to get from birth to completing the preliminaries for careers in medicine or law. Uranus? Most people do not live long enough to survive a full orbit.
Neptune? I can't see any natural cycle that matches or approaches the time of its orbit.
Small correction to be made - One Jupiter orbit is 11.862 years, and one "Jupiter saeculum" is actually 83.034 years.
RE: Anacyclosis (256 years cycle / 12 Generation / 3 Saeculum) - Ghost - 01-05-2020
(02-15-2018, 12:51 AM)Mark40 Wrote: A Saeculum is a 1/3 of 256 years or 86 years like Uranus cycle. There is correlations based on symmetry. Symmetry is the key that unlock the mysteries of nature.
I believe in synchronicity, symmetrical patterns, geometry and scientific astrology.
Here another graphic, but i'm not sure if it begin in 1789 or 1776.
For astrological purpose :
The Four Quadra are the Four Season
Anarcho-Communism - Spring
Communism - Summer
Fascism - Autumn
Anarchism, Winter
1904 correspond to August 22
1925 to September 22
1946 to October 22
1989 to December 22
1776 to February 20
1861 to June 22
The Uranus cycle is actually 84 years, not 86.
RE: Anacyclosis (256 years cycle / 12 Generation / 3 Saeculum) - Blazkovitz - 05-21-2020
I prefer the two-part Dionysian-Apollonian rhythm.
The cult of progress in the early 20th century corresponds to the Enlightenment ca 1750.
Russian Revolution to the American and French
Hitler to Napoleon
Counterculture to Romanticism
Current culture wars to the American Civil War.
RE: Anacyclosis (256 years cycle / 12 Generation / 3 Saeculum) - Bob Butler 54 - 05-21-2020
I of course would warn that anything based on observation of the Industrial Age has to be confirmed rather than just assumed to hold in the Information Age.
RE: Anacyclosis (256 years cycle / 12 Generation / 3 Saeculum) - Eric the Green - 05-21-2020
(08-15-2019, 09:03 PM)Ghost Wrote:(02-15-2018, 03:05 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Orbital periods of the major planets in Earth years:
Jupiter 11.86
Saturn 29.46
Uranus 84.01
Neptune 164.8
Three orbits of Saturn clearly get one to old age at 88.38 years. One orbit of Uranus does, too, at 84.01. Seven of Jupiter get one to 84.02 years. One orbit of Jupiter is enough to get one through the twelve numbered grades of public school in the US. One orbit of Saturn is enough to get from birth to completing the preliminaries for careers in medicine or law. Uranus? Most people do not live long enough to survive a full orbit.
Neptune? I can't see any natural cycle that matches or approaches the time of its orbit.
Small correction to be made - One Jupiter orbit is 11.862 years, and one "Jupiter saeculum" is actually 83.034 years.
Very good.
Quote:A Saeculum is a 1/3 of 256 years or 86 years like Uranus cycle. There is correlations based on symmetry. Symmetry is the key that unlock the mysteries of nature.
I believe in synchronicity, symmetrical patterns, geometry and scientific astrology.
Mark 40 too
The venerable astrologer/philosopher/composer Dane Rudhyar, as I have pointed out, said that Uranus gets its astrological properties of "the unexpected" and the "inventive" because it corresponds approximately to the length of a human life, 84 years, assuming all goes well with it. Some of us may live longer, or shorter, but it's an archetypal length. The authors of The Fourth Turning gave exactly the same reason for the same length of a saeculum. The cycle repeats because people forget what happened a lifetime ago. They agreed with Rudhyar although they had no belief in astrology and no knowledge of or direct agreement with his way of thinking. Except of course, Rudhyar also said "astrology is a study of cycles." Obviously, so is T4T and Generations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dane_Rudhyar
Neptune's cycle is approximately twice that of Uranus, and Pluto three times. Neptune's orbit corresponds to the discussion we have had of a double rhythm to the saeculum, which I think I started, and which Blazkovitz refers to above.
I call this the transcendental trinity because these are invisible planets, and they concern or align with/symbolize invisible or intangible aspects of culture and consciousness. So although Neptune and Pluto describe the saeculum as about 82 years, and Uranus as 84, making a slight variation through the millennia, essentially they are the three saeculum planets. And Jupiter's 1/7 cycle of Uranus is also significant, aligning with the famous seven ages of "man."
http://philosopherswheel.com/transcendentaltrinity.html
http://philosopherswheel.com/fortunes.htm
RE: Anacyclosis (256 years cycle / 12 Generation / 3 Saeculum) - Eric the Green - 05-21-2020
(05-21-2020, 04:47 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I of course would warn that anything based on observation of the Industrial Age has to be confirmed rather than just assumed to hold in the Information Age.
History and human evolution being a spiral, not a straight circle, allowance has to be made for changes and new conditions due to this evolutionary unfolding. Spiral Dynamics.
RE: Anacyclosis (256 years cycle / 12 Generation / 3 Saeculum) - Bob Butler 54 - 05-21-2020
(05-21-2020, 03:26 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:(05-21-2020, 04:47 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I of course would warn that anything based on observation of the Industrial Age has to be confirmed rather than just assumed to hold in the Information Age.
History and human evolution being a spiral, not a straight circle, allowance has to be made for changes and new conditions due to this evolutionary unfolding. Spiral Dynamics.
Yes, but the basic pattern is expected to change radically with the age. That which you believed to be true once might well not be any more. Do a little analysis to see if the basic features that you are looking for are effected by nukes, computers or renewable energy. Look to make sure you see a continuation of the pattern. Do not just blindly assume that what was in one era will be in the next.
RE: Anacyclosis (256 years cycle / 12 Generation / 3 Saeculum) - Anthony '58 - 06-04-2020
Had Prabhat Sarkar still been alive when S&H's theory took off (he died in 1990), he no doubt would have piggybacked his cycle onto theirs, producing a schedule of two S&H saecula = one Sarkar age (warrior, intellectual, and acquisitive, always in that order).