• Nepal today became the 11th country to declare a confirmed
  case, as the US and Japan confirmed their second cases, Thailand its
  fifth, and the global toll rose above 900 (Daily Mail)

(01-21-2020, 07:49 PM)Marypoza Wrote: > not as much as l enjoyed watching her [Pocahontas's] #s tank. And
> she is now 1 of the country's most disliked Senators, right up
> there with Moscow Mitch [McConnell]. Bernie, of course, remains
> the most liked senator. AT&T owns CNN. Bernie wants 2 break up the
> telecoms. Do the math

> Bernie/Tulsi 2020

(01-19-2020, 07:11 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(01-18-2020, 11:42 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: The confessional form of government has worked fairly
well in both Iraq and Lebanon, because it's prevented the kind of
massive violence that's been occurring in Iran and Syria.

I wouldn't say this:  sectarian issues were responsible for the rise of the Islamic State, which was nothing if not violent.  Iraq just happened to be able to con the US into taking care of that issue for them.

• China's coronavirus spreads across China and around the world
  
• Xi Jinping may lose the Mandate from Heaven
  

• In Hong Kong elections on November 24, pro-democracy activists
  won a massive victory in electing members for local district
  counciles. ( "25-Nov-19 World View -- Historic Hong Kong elections throw relations with China mainland into disarray"
  )
  
  
• In Taiwan on January 11, Tsai Ing-wen and the pro-independence
  Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) won an enormous victory. ( "11-Jan-20 World View -- Taiwan's pro-independence party expected to win Saturday presidential elections"
  )
  
  
• The CCP for years have been trying to keep secret its genocide and
  enslavement of millions of Muslim Uighurs and Kazakhs in East
  Turkestan (Xinjiang), but it's turning more and more into a public
  relations disaster for the CCP. ( "18-Nov-19 World View -- Trove of leaked China documents detail jailing of Xinjiang's Muslim Uighurs"
  )
  
  
• And now the new coronavirus is apparently spreading quickly. Xi
  Jinping can blame the above three problems on American interference,
  but if this virus isn't handled properly then it will clearly be a
  message from the gods in the Kingdom of Heaven, and a sign that Xi has
  lost the Mandate from Heaven.

• Tracking coronavirus: Map, data and timeline (BNOnews, 24-Jan-2020)
  
• 'We're all trapped now': Wuhan residents say they have ALL been left to catch China's deadly coronavirus as city orders total lockdown – as country reports 41 people have died and more than 1,200 infected (Daily Mail, London, 24-Jan-2020)
  
• Wuhan is the latest crisis to face China's Xi, and it's exposing major flaws in his model of control (CNN, 24-Jan-2020)
  
• Deadly coronavirus outbreak brings China to a standstill (Daily Sabah, Ankara, 24-Jan-2020)
  
• Hong Kong protests, Taiwan problem, Wuhan virus: Xi Jinping’s woes just keep mounting (South China Morning Post, Hong Kong, 22-Jan-2020)
  
• An effortless Chinese rise to dominance is far from certain (Arab News, 24-Jan-2020)
  
• China Loses the Mandate of Heaven in Hong Kong (American Thinker, 7-Dec-2019)

• Xi Jinping invokes the 1840s Opium Wars to justify military action for China's 'rejuvenation' (21-Mar-2018)
  
  
• China's president Xi Jinping given dictatorial powers (29-Oct-2016)
  
  
• Xi Jinping's 'Socialism with Chinese characteristics' is identical to Hitler's National Socialism (24-Oct-2017)
  
  
• China defends million-prisoner 'reeducation camps' and Sinicization of Islam in Xinjiang (14-Oct-2018)
  
  
• George Soros speech at Davos marks significant global shift against China (27-Jan-2019)
  
  
• Xi Jinping envisions 'China's Dream' - world economic and military domination (14-Mar-2013)
  

(01-25-2020, 01:39 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: Hong Kong and Taiwan are not mandate of heaven issues since they are different systems.  The Uighers probably aren't either.  The coronavirus definitely is.

We already know what stupid thing the CCP is going to do with the coronavirus:  they are quarantining whole cities.  This will intensify epidemics within those cities due to interference with supplies needed for food, water, and medicine.  This will be at least as bad for the Chinese government as the plane shootdown was for the Iranian government.

The other major mandate of heaven issue, even bigger than the coronavirus, is more limited supplies of chicken and pork and imports in general, due to the currency decline.  If the Chinese are smart, they will get cracking on importing more from the US, for China's own good and not (just) for the trade deal.

gfmucci1 Wrote:> The complete report, with photos and links for the text below is
> here:
> http://muccings.blogspot.com/2020/01/how-forthcoming-has-china-been-about.html

> How forthcoming has China been about the mystery virus?

> One can be expected to not get the straight poop from a closed,
> Communist nation like China. And that is likely the situation
> concerning the Wuhan virus. As one source pointed out, more
> accurate information is likely provided by the rumor mill (people
> on the ground) than from “official China outlets.”

> As of today [January 26], we are told by official China outlets of
> 56 deaths from the virus. HERE is one report from other sources
> of 10,000 dead in Wuhan alone.

> CORONAVIRUS: Reports of 10,000 DEAD in Wuhan, China Further, the
> Daily Mail reports that …

> “China built a lab to study SARS and Ebola in Wuhan - and US
> biosafety experts warned in 2017 that a virus could 'escape' the
> facility that's become key in fighting the outbreak".”

> Little snippets of info are beginning to paint a more troublesome
> story than has be reported so far.

> As you recall over the last few days it has been reported that the
> source of the virus was from a bat delicacy at a market. And then
> we heard it may be from a snake.

> Here is a post from an individual familiar with Asian cuisine, and
> particularly with the types of foods Chinese official outlets
> attributed to the outbreak:

> Poster 1:

> I don't buy into this bat/snake folderol. I've eaten fruit bat
> upon many occasions. Cooked in coconut milk, it's absolutely
> delicious and considered a delicacy throughout Micronesia. On the
> snake story, I had some wealthy acquaintances, long ago, that had
> quail hunting leases outside of Del Rio. The number of times that
> I ate rattlesnake … I lost count of. Point of fact, someone told
> me that chicken tastes quite a bit like rattlesnake.

> Poster 2:

> Knock yourself out, … though I suspect your post is an attempt at
> weird humor….I'll stick to beef, pork, fresh fish, etc. and a
> multitude of fresh vegetables and fruits prepared under sanitary
> conditions. The big problem is that China, most of Asia, India,
> Africa and various 3rd world countries are unsanitary dungholes.

> Poster 1:

> …When I lived, in the Marianas…fruit bat is an absolute
> delicacy. It's cooked in coconut milk. There's actually a
> hunting/trapping season. And, when hunting quail, outside of Del
> Rio, we often shot rattlesnakes. One of the reasons that hunting
> with bird dogs isn't recommended. And, wearing of chaps is highly
> encouraged. I've eaten a lot of rattlesnake. I challenge you to
> find one city, any city, in the PRC that is one-tenth as filthy as
> Los Angeles, San Francisco, Baltimore, Chicago … and the list goes
> on and on and on. Filth is piled over two stories in many areas of
> Baltimore, Detroit, etc.

> Me:

> So, do you believe the virus lab breakout story has more
> credibility [than the animal market story]?

> Poster 1:

> Yes

> Here is a photo that has been in the national news over the past
> couple of days. Several dozen pieces of heavy earth moving
> equipment are preparing the ground for the 10-day, super fast
> track, construction of a large hospital in Wuhan to help treat the
> infected population, where “only 25 have died.”

> Huge efforts are being made by construction workers in Wuhan to
> erect a new hospital in less than a week on the government's
> orders. Officials said the medical facility must be built to cope
> with overwhelming numbers of coronavirus patients

> Question for those familiar with the planning and construction of
> large hospitals: When is the last time you’ve seen this level of
> construction activity for construction of a hospital with less
> than three weeks of advance planning? Survey work alone would take
> a week or more. Drawing up plans longer still. What is the
> likelihood that a “fully transparent” Chinese government has given
> us the full story behind this mystery virus outbreak? How many
> months do you think the Chinese government has been aware of this
> outbreak? And is it a breakout of a weaponized strain from their
> less than stellar Level 4 lab?

> Update January 24:

> Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding‏ @DrEricDing, a public health scientist on the
> faculty at Harvard.

> “I’ll be honest - as an epidemiologist, I’m really deeply worried
> about this new coronavirus outbreak. 1) the virus has an upward
> infection trajectory curve much steeper than SARS. 2) it can be
> transmitted person to person before symptoms appear — I.e. it is
> silently contagious!”

> “HOLY MOTHER OF GOD - the new coronavirus is a 3.8!!! [multiplier
> of new infections from one infected person] How bad is that
> reproductive R0 value? It is thermonuclear pandemic level bad -
> never seen an actual virality coefficient outside of Twitter in my
> entire career. I’m not exaggerating… #WuhanCoronovirus
> #CoronavirusOutbreak”

> What does this mean for those who were on a plane or in a crowd
> with people who showed NO symptoms yet, but who came down with
> this virus days or a week later? You probably received
> it.

• The idea that coronavirus could jump from animals to humans is
  not farfetched. The same happened with Ebola. As I understand it,
  hundreds of different forms of coronaviruses live in bats, and any one
  of those could mutate at any time to jump to humans.
  
  
• The idea that coronavirus was developed in a Chinese biological
  warfare lab and escaped is highly alarmist without some sort of
  confirmation. On the other hand, let's face it, the Japanese used
  biological warfare against the Chinese during WW II, and there's
  little doubt that the Chinese are planning something like that in
  their planned revenge war against Japan. However, the animal
  connection is still more likely for today's coronavirus, and the
  warfare lab hypothesis is extremely alarmist.
  
  
• The Wuhan airport is the biggest airport in China with flights to
  and from dozens of cities in China, as well cities in other countries
  in the region, as well as several countries in Europe, and Los Angeles
  and New York in the United States. Wuhan airport has been partially
  shut down, with no flights allowed to leave, and few flights
  allowed to enter.
  
  
• It's now emerging that it takes 14 days for symptoms can appear,
  and that someone can spread the virus before symptoms appear. This
  make the virus extremely dangerous.
  
  
• Putting the last two items together, if they're true and if what
  they imply is true, then there will be large outbreaks of Wuhan
  coronavirus in many cities around the world within a couple more
  weeks. Whether the mainstream media will consider that more important
  than impeachment remains to be seen.

(01-25-2020, 01:39 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: > Hong Kong and Taiwan are not mandate of heaven issues since they
> are different systems. The Uighers probably aren't either. The
> coronavirus definitely is.

> We already know what stupid thing the CCP is going to do with the
> coronavirus: they are quarantining whole cities. This will
> intensify epidemics within those cities due to interference with
> supplies needed for food, water, and medicine. This will be at
> least as bad for the Chinese government as the plane shootdown was
> for the Iranian government.

> The other major mandate of heaven issue, even bigger than the
> coronavirus, is more limited supplies of chicken and pork and
> imports in general, due to the currency decline. If the Chinese
> are smart, they will get cracking on importing more from the US,
> for China's own good and not (just) for the trade deal.

(01-25-2020, 09:42 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-25-2020, 01:39 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: We already know what stupid thing the CCP is going to do with the coronavirus:  they are quarantining whole cities.  This will intensify epidemics within those cities due to interference with supplies needed for food, water, and medicine.  This will be at least as bad for the Chinese government as the plane shootdown was for the Iranian government....

I don't see any other choices, in a country as populated and concentrated as China.  Yes, the affected cities will have additional cases, and would have in any case.  Keeping the disease confined (if that's even possible at this point) is a net plus.  Ebola is addressed in a similar manner every time it arises.

(01-14-2020, 07:48 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: And then there's the continuing mystery of Alan Greenspan.  I followed
all his speeches in the early 2000s.  All the mainstream economic
reporters were whining, "Whaaa, whaaa, whaaa, Greenspan uses big
words, and even though I'm supposed to be an expert, I'm actually too
stupid to understand what he's saying."

I didn't understand Greenspan's speeches at first either, but I would
go the Federal Reserve web site and read it over a few times, and then
I always understood.  But that was beyond the mental capacity of all
the "experts" at WSJ, CNBC, and elsewhere.

So as I wrote at the time, Greenspan knew in 2004 that there was a
housing bubble, but he thought it was a good thing, because it gave
people more money.  In Dec 2004, he told the WSJ that he knew in the
late 90s that a bubble was growing, but that he decided to take care
of it later.  It wasn't until 2005 that he became alarmed.

Milton Friedman had "proved" that the Great Depression had occurred
because the Fed kept interest rates too high, and could have been
prevented completely by lowering interest rates a bit.  He said that
any depression could be ended quickly by using a helicopter to drop
money and spread it around.

(01-26-2020, 02:33 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(01-25-2020, 09:42 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-25-2020, 01:39 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: We already know what stupid thing the CCP is going to do with the coronavirus:  they are quarantining whole cities.  This will intensify epidemics within those cities due to interference with supplies needed for food, water, and medicine.  This will be at least as bad for the Chinese government as the plane shootdown was for the Iranian government....

I don't see any other choices, in a country as populated and concentrated as China.  Yes, the affected cities will have additional cases, and would have in any case.  Keeping the disease confined (if that's even possible at this point) is a net plus.  Ebola is addressed in a similar manner every time it arises.

Flu - just regular old flu - kills tens of thousands of people in the US every year.  The coronavirus has killed only 26 people in China, a country with much larger population and worse public health infrastructure.  There's no indication that coronavirus is a bigger problem than the normal annual global flu pandemic, let alone such a big problem that it justifies disruption of the lives of tens of millions of people.  The Chinese quarantine is a case of the cure being worse than the disease, and the Chinese people are not going to thank their government for it.

(01-27-2020, 01:05 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: Lethality: 3% of infected people die, according to official figures
from China -- about 10 times higher than the flu, but with SARS, 10%
of infected people died (about 800 deaths out of 8000 people
infected).

(01-27-2020, 10:03 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(01-27-2020, 01:05 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: Lethality: 3% of infected people die, according to official figures
from China -- about 10 times higher than the flu, but with SARS, 10%
of infected people died (about 800 deaths out of 8000 people
infected).

3% of confirmed cases.  However, there are likely lots of cases that have not been confirmed, especially since they've actually managed to identify several asymptomatic cases.  The incubation period is between 2 and 14 days, so the average isn't far from the 6 days of other coronaviruses.

The mayor of Wuhan says 5 million of the 11 million population has already left, many for travel associated with the Chinese New Year's holiday.  The quarantine is going to be ineffective and counterproductive.

• Donald Trump offers his 'Peace to Prosperity' Mideast peace plan
  
• The Mideast peace process fantasy
  

• It's a two-state plan, with Israel and a Palestinian
  state.
  
  
• The Palestinian territories will be combined into a Palestinian
  state. Since Gaza is separated from the West Bank, the two regions
  will be connected with roads, bridges and tunnels.
  
  
• Israel will control a united Jerusalem. However, the Palestinian
  state capital will be in East Jerusalem, and America will build an
  embassy there.
  
  
• Israel will agree to a four-year freeze on new West Bank
  settlements.
  
  
• The amount of territory controlled by the Palestinians will be
  doubled.
  
  
• Trump promised $60 billion dollars to Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt so
  that they can resolve the problem of Palestinian refugees.

• Live Updates Trump's Peace Plan Calls for Two States, Settlement Freeze (Haaretz, 28-Jan-2020)
  
• Palestinian leader rejects Trump's Middle East peace plan: 'A thousand no's' (The Hill, 28-Jan-2020)
  
• Trump's Mideast Peace Plan (White House, 28-Jan-2020)
  
• Trump offers two-state peace plan for Israeli-Palestinian conflict amid skepticism (The Hill, 28-Jan-2020)
  
• Trump unveils Middle East peace plan with two-state solution, tunnel connecting West Bank and Gaza (Fox News, 28-Jan-2020)
  
• What's in Trump's Middle East peace plan? (Fox News, 28-Jan-2020)
  
• Trump Middle East peace plan expands Israeli territory, offers path to Palestinian statehood (NBC News, 28-Jan-2020)
  
• Cut out of the process, Palestinians reject Trump's economic plan for Mideast peace (NBC News, 28-Jun-2019)
  
• Abbas: 1,000 ‘no’s to the Trump plan (Jerusalem Post, 28-Jan-2020)
  
• Palestinians angrily reject Trump Mideast peace plan (AP, 28-Jan-2020)
  
• Trump peace plan delights Israelis, enrages Palestinians (AP, 28-Jan-2020)
  
• Progressive Jewish Groups Dismiss Trump's Middle East Peace Plan As 'Utterly Bankrupt' and a 'Sham' (Newsweek, 28-Jan-2020)
  
• Trump leaps into Middle East fray with plan that favors Israel and angers Palestinians (Reuters, 28-Jan-2020)
  
• Former U.S. diplomat thinks Trump's Middle East peace plan will 'deepen' Israel-Palestine conflict (TheWeek-uk, 28-Jan-2020)
  
• Russia urges coordination on Mideast peace plan (Ynet, 28-Jan-2020)
  
• The Latest: Chief: UN committed to Israel-Palestinian peace (AP, 28-Jan-2020)

• Channeling Sisyphus, Trump and Abbas say Mideast peace not as hard as it looks (04-May-2017)
  
  
• Palestinian leader Abbas expected to deliver ultimatum to Israel at UN (28-Sep-2015)
  
  
• Mahmoud Abbas's United Nations 'bombshell' something of a dud (01-Oct-2015)
  
  
• Palestinian 'Oslo Generation' relationship with Israel extremely toxic and explosive (18-Oct-2015)
  
  
• Obama and Netanyahu in sharp disagreement after speech (20-May-2011)
  
  
• Obama administration ends effort to pressure Israel on settlements (08-Dec-2010)
  
  
• Mideast Roadmap - Will it bring peace? (1-May-2003)

Guest Wrote:> I live in Asia, but not China.

> Okay, here goes. Every single conference, business meeting, and
> seminar scheduled to be held in China I know of has been
> cancelled--not rescheduled--cancelled.

> Clients who have factories operating in China that they are
> dependent on are really screwed. Everyone is looking for
> alternatives, but you can't build new factories in Vietnam
> overnight. People are facing complete ruin.

> Where is this virus really taking us? This one feels creepy. I've
> been these before. This one seems different, completely so. I hope
> this burns out quickly, otherwise Asian economies are going to
> crash.

• Is this the "big one"? The "big one" would be a major panic
  and worldwide financial crisis.
  
  I don't think so. If you look back at previous panics -- the 1929
  panic, the 1987 false panic, and the flash crash of a few years ago --
  they were all completely unexpected.
  
  In other words, you can't "expect" a panic. A panic is, almost by
  definition, "unexpectable." Therefore, if a panic is now "expected,"
  then it can't occur now.
  
  So there might be a 20% correction, but not a full-scale financial
  panic.
  
  
• According to a BBC report that I heard this morning, the South
  Koreans are in total panic over coronavirus, and there's a widespread
  belief that the virus was created in China's biological warfare
  lab. Some people claim that there is such a lab near Wuhan. However,
  as I've said before, this is extremely alarmist, and to my knowledge,
  no credible source considers it to be even likely.
  
  
• You say: "Okay, here goes. Every single conference, business
  meeting, and seminar scheduled to be held in China I know of has been
  cancelled--not rescheduled--cancelled."
  
  Of all the problems that the virus pandemic is causing, this is the
  easiest to fix. After a temporary pause, all of these conferences,
  meetings and seminars will be rescheduled to take place online over
  the internet. I would expect this problem to be almost completely
  solved by March 1.
  
  
• Factories and other places where people are needed onsite will
  also have their issues mitigated. People who don't need to be onsite
  are already being asked to work at home. People actually needed
  onsite will be educated, told to wear face masks, watch for symptoms,
  and so forth. It's still a very serious problem, and some factories
  may close, but it won't result in the ghost cities that some people
  are predicting. Some Chinese factories have already been relocating
  to Vietnam and other Asian countries because of the US-China trade
  war, and the coronavirus problem may accelerate that.
  
  
• There are various estimates about how long this will last. The
  number of new confirmed cases is increasing every day. When the
  number of new cases starts to decrease, that will signal the
  beginning of the end of the pandemic. That's likely to occur as
  winter ends, around May or June in the northern hemisphere. It
  may strike the southern hemisphere after that.

Quote: "[Mike Pompeo] also knows deep within his heart that
Donald Trump couldn't find Ukraine on a map if you had the letter
U and a picture of an actual physical crane next to it. He knows
that this is, you know, an administration defined by ignorance of
the world. And so that's partly him playing to the base and
playing to their audience. You know, the credulous boomer rube
demo that backs Donald Trump."

Quote: As Lemon began crying with tears of laughter, Wilson
went on to depict what he thought a typical Trump supporter
sounded like.

"'Donald Trump's the smart one — and y'all elitists are dumb!'"
Wilson said with a heavy southern accent.

"'You elitists with your geography and your maps- and your
spelling!'" Ali chimed in during the mockery.

"'Your math and your reading!'" Wilson added. "'All those lines on
the map!'"

The CNN anchor almost lost his breath from laughing, wiping tears
from his eyes with a tissue.

"That was good," Lemon reacted. "That was a good one. I needed
that."

Quote: "Today, Ambassador X gave explosive testimony that
Trump withheld aid from Ukraine until Ukraine started
investigating Joe and Hunter Biden."

Quote: "We will not stop. Whether or not that leads to
another impeachment activity, I don’t know. But I know we must
continue with the work that our constituents have elected us to
come to Congress to do."

Trevor Wrote:> Seeing all this is beginning to convince me that our crisis war is
> going to be a civil war. I know it's been dismissed many
> times. Even two years ago, I would have laughed at the very idea
> of things getting to that point. Now. . . I'm not so sure
> anymore. There are people I know who are willing to justify
> Antifa's actions, because, after all, their targets are white
> supremacists. I've had people throw me out of their lives because
> I'm not on the "impeach Trump" bandwagon. Not liking him isn't
> enough. I've read article after article and blog post where people
> proudly proclaim they have cut all ties with their former
> Republican friends and family.

> I haven't watched the entire thing the way John has, but I've seen
> enough to where these people scare me. Trump might have thrown
> gasoline onto the fire, but I don't think the response would be
> very different if Rubio or Cruz had gotten elected. The media
> ignores or justifies Antifa's actions in Portland and other
> cities. Far as they're concerned, all Trump supporters deserve the
> same treatment.

> They've already declared the 2020 election illegitimate even
> though it's 10 months away. Trump's likely to win in a landslide,
> though the Democrats will do their best to cheat. Sometimes I
> wonder if the GOP will vote to remove him just to try and appease
> their anger, even if it wouldn't work.

> Things got real crazy after the 2008 recession and we've still got
> one coming. I don't think it's been this terrible since
> immediately before the Civil War. You wear a Trump hat in the
> cities, you're likely to be beaten or at least harassed. I've been
> watching events in Virginia, and they were begging for a violent
> incident so they could spin it. Governor Northam was all but
> provoking one, but nothing happened, much to their
> disappointment. They want to disarm their political opponents,
> which sends chills up my spine.

> When it comes to confiscation, Virginia is the canary in the coal
> mine. I don't think they understand just how important gun rights
> are to conservative, else you wouldn't hear calls to send in the
> National Guard to disarm them. No, the Governor hasn't actually
> ordered this, but some lawmakers have suggested it. Some will do
> anything for total submission, and I don't think they realize what
> they could unleash.

> It wouldn't be red state versus blue state. It'd be rural versus
> urban, with numerous factions fighting for control of the
> country. I'm still not convinced we're really going to have a
> civil war, but the trend line is going in that
> direction. Everything is considered justified, so long as the Tea
> Partiers are crushed.

richard5za Wrote:> As an outsider one of the things I have noticed about America is
> the division between Republican and Democrat; it seems to define
> you as a person, both in your own attitudes and how others regard
> you. Almost like Catholic and Protestant in Northern Ireland. Most
> Americans I have met are big hearted, well meaning, well mannered
> people, and a division of this nature is a great pity.

(02-01-2020, 09:43 AM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: ** 01-Feb-2020 World View: Civil war

Trevor Wrote:>   Seeing all this is beginning to convince me that our crisis war is
>   going to be a civil war. I know it's been dismissed many
>   times. Even two years ago, I would have laughed at the very idea
>   of things getting to that point. Now. . . I'm not so sure
>   anymore. There are people I know who are willing to justify
>   Antifa's actions, because, after all, their targets are white
>   supremacists. I've had people throw me out of their lives because
>   I'm not on the "impeach Trump" bandwagon. Not liking him isn't
>   enough. I've read article after article and blog post where people
>   proudly proclaim they have cut all ties with their former
>   Republican friends and family.

>   I haven't watched the entire thing the way John has, but I've seen
>   enough to where these people scare me. Trump might have thrown
>   gasoline onto the fire, but I don't think the response would be
>   very different if Rubio or Cruz had gotten elected. The media
>   ignores or justifies Antifa's actions in Portland and other
>   cities. Far as they're concerned, all Trump supporters deserve the
>   same treatment.

>   They've already declared the 2020 election illegitimate even
>   though it's 10 months away. Trump's likely to win in a landslide,
>   though the Democrats will do their best to cheat. Sometimes I
>   wonder if the GOP will vote to remove him just to try and appease
>   their anger, even if it wouldn't work.

>   Things got real crazy after the 2008 recession and we've still got
>   one coming. I don't think it's been this terrible since
>   immediately before the Civil War. You wear a Trump hat in the
>   cities, you're likely to be beaten or at least harassed. I've been
>   watching events in Virginia, and they were begging for a violent
>   incident so they could spin it. Governor Northam was all but
>   provoking one, but nothing happened, much to their
>   disappointment. They want to disarm their political opponents,
>   which sends chills up my spine.

>   When it comes to confiscation, Virginia is the canary in the coal
>   mine. I don't think they understand just how important gun rights
>   are to conservative, else you wouldn't hear calls to send in the
>   National Guard to disarm them. No, the Governor hasn't actually
>   ordered this, but some lawmakers have suggested it. Some will do
>   anything for total submission, and I don't think they realize what
>   they could unleash.

>   It wouldn't be red state versus blue state. It'd be rural versus
>   urban, with numerous factions fighting for control of the
>   country. I'm still not convinced we're really going to have a
>   civil war, but the trend line is going in that
>   direction. Everything is considered justified, so long as the Tea
>   Partiers are crushed.

Could you give me some links to the articles and blog posts that
you're referencing?

I still reject the concept of a "civil war" in any meaningful sense.

As I've mentioned in the past, my father, a Greek immigrant, once told
me that the violence in America in the 1930s was so bad that he
thought America would not survive.  Furthermore, FDR was just as hated
and divisive then as Trump is today.  Nonetheless, nobody describes
the 1930s as a time of civil war, as far as I know.

Quote:It's true that I am afraid of what the Democrats will unleash if Trump
wins again in November and the Democrats are facing the unbearable
horror of four more years of Trump supporters, but I expect the
violence to be sporadic.

Quote:The bitterness and fury of the Democrats is plainly visible on tv
among the politicians and mainstream media "reporters."  And there's
no doubt that this is reflected in the Democrats in the general
public, as you said: "I've read article after article and blog post
where people proudly proclaim they have cut all ties with their former
Republican friends and family."

Quote:However, here's where the civil war concept breaks down.  Crisis civil
wars are along fault lines based on things like ethnicity, skin color,
religion, and so forth.  But I assume that the articles and blog posts
you're reading don't go farther and say something like, "I've cut all
ties with my former Republican friends and family, and now I'm making
plans to go back and kill them."

Quote:If you start reading articles and blog posts of that sort, beyond
sporadic stuff from Antifa nutjobs, then we can re-assess the
possibility of civil war.