+- Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory (http://generational-theory.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Fourth Turning Forums (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Theories Of History (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-7.html)
+--- Thread: Generational Dynamics World View (/thread-51.html)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - John J. Xenakis - 06-03-2020
** 02-Jun-2020 World View: Race Riot Crisis and Coronavirus Crisis
mooreupp Wrote:> Fair enough. I just can't help but look around the country
> anymore and be scared we look a little too like other countries
> we've seen erupt into neighbor vs. neighbor fighting. You factor
> in an economic collapse and I see the recipe in place for things
> to get very very ugly.
> Some of this makes me wonder about the importance of timing of
> events. If we'd had a crisis war on the early edge of when it was
> possible, it certainly would have been a major external
> war. Potentially delaying a depression (as they managed to do in
> 2008) and likely an eventual crisis war, may have been the worst
> thing that could have happened.
People who are predicting a huge uprising or a civil war either
have an agenda or are being too caught up in the moment. The chances
are the the riot crisis will be mostly over within a month.
At the end of this year, when reporters do retrospectives, I would
expect China, coronavirus, and the economy to be considered more
important stories than the race riots.
However, the Race Riot Crisis has had an interesting effect on
the Coronavirus Crisis. As usual, the common core of all media
reports has been to blame Trump. So before last week, the media
were blaming Trump for calling for the end of lockdowns too early,
thus putting people's health in danger.
However, that's all changed with the Race Riot Crisis. As usual, the
media are blaming the race riots on Trump, but it's quickly becoming
more acceptable to end the lockdowns, for three reasons. First, time
has passed, and some lockdowns were going to end anyway. Secondly,
it's become clear that the lockdowns are hitting minority-owned
businesses the hardest, and many businesses that were expected to
reopen soon are now destroyed by the race riots, and this has hurt
blacks and other minorities the worst. And third, if mass protests
are going on, then certainly other activities can also go on, and
a lockdown doesn't make sense.
However, there may be a new surge in coronavirus cases in the next
couple of weeks as a result of the riots and the easing of the lockdowns.
The race riots have had another consequence. The Chinese are really
gloating about the riots, and are claiming that the Americans are
hypocrites for criticizing the CCP policies in Hong Kong, claiming
that American policies in dealing with riots are the same.
Of greater concern is the fear that China may use the American race
riots to justify military action in Hong Kong or Taiwan.
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - John J. Xenakis - 06-03-2020
** 03-Jun-2020 World View: Pariah
(06-01-2020, 12:15 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: > I think it worth repeating clearly the wonderful personality and
> unique character that Xenakis is so enamored of. It shows the
> worth of Generational Dynamics.
Every time you post something, it's more idiotic than the last time.
I don't know how you keep it up.
You wrote, "LBJ and MLK allied for the black vote. Nixon started the
Southern Strategy as the obvious response."
In your child-like mind, you apparently thought that describing
something as "obvious" was all you need to do, without further
justification. So you imagine me thinking, "Oh, Butler says it's
'obvious,' so it must be true." You're like the Bellman in Lewis
Carroll's "The Hunting of the Snark" who says, "What I tell you three
times is true." For you it's "What I say is 'obvious' is true."
You're making a claim that's ridiculous on its face. For over a
century, the Democrats through the KKK were lynching, raping,
torturing and killing blacks in the South, with all the powerful
emotions that go along with those activities. But oh, according to
you, all those powerful emotions dissipated when LBJ and MLK made a
deal, and OVERNIGHT, the Southern Democrats no longer held those
powerful emotions. And you're saying that's "obvious," because of
Nixon's Southern Strategy. That narrative is so patently ridiculous
that only an idiot could believe it. A century of powerful emotions
do not disappear overnight because of a piece of paper. Those
emotions haven't ended today, as we can see in the case of Derek
Chauvin, who is clearly possessed by those emotions today.
I have a big advantage over you. You're completely baffled by what
I'm thinking, and have no idea about it. But I know exactly what
you're thinking, since I try to watch CNN for a while every day. I
just have to hear what idiotic thing Don Lemon is saying, and I
automatically know what idiotic thing Bob Butler is thinking. Fox
News has analysts from all sides of the issues, but CNN shuts out any
analyst that doesn't follow the Democratic Party line. So people like
you have no clue what's actually going on in the world, while I do.
That gives me a big advantage.
Well, I'm really not familiar with Nixon's Southern Strategy, so I
decided to check it out. I ended up linking to:
*** The myth of Nixon’s ‘Southern Strategy’ - Dinesh D'Souza
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/402754-the-myth-of-nixons-southern-strategy
However, I'm not particularly "enamored of" Dinesh D'Souza as you
claim. I'm actually just vaguely aware of him. He's one of dozens or
perhaps hundreds of analysts across the political spectrum whose views
I hear all the time on Fox News, BBC, Al-Jazeera, CNN, MS-NBC, RFI,
and others. And if I recall correctly, the few times I've seen him on
TV, I haven't always agreed with everything he says. Generational
Dynamics successfully analyzes historical and current events and is
right pretty much 100% of the time, while ideological right-wingers
and left-wingers are usually wrong around 50% of the time. So D'Souza
is not particularly special to me, and certainly not always right,
although your child-like brain is pleased to think he is.
The reason that I linked to that document is because of its content.
It described the history of Nixon's Southern Strategy, gave all the
relevant facts, and responded to your "obvious" claim, which "obviously"
was ridiculous, as I explained above.
Apparently I was very successful. That article seems to have freaked
you out completely, as I've noted a while ago when I described how
Leon Festinger's Cognitive Dissonance was completely deranging your
mind. The D'Souza article must have challenged your entire "obvious"
world view on multiple levels, because you never even referenced the
content of the article. NOT ONE WORD.
Instead, you desperately tried to defend your deeply held beliefs
(which is what Festinger happens when deeply held beliefs are proven
wrong by reality), and you went on a wild personal attack spree,
attacking D'Souza and of course me. You use phrases like "blind
ideology" (or was it "ideological blindness" - I forget which) to
describe me, since that's exactly the phrase that applies to you.
You're like CNN, rejecting any view that doesn't match the Democratic
Party talking points.
I'm not like you. I try to evaluate content rather than ideology,
although as I've said you've posted crap so many times that I have a
hard time evaluating any of your content.
Let me give you an example. A couple of days ago, I wanted to get
further information on the history of the KKK, and I came across an
SPLC document:
*** Ku Klux Klan - A History of Racism and Violence
https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/Ku-Klux-Klan-A-History-of-Racism.pdf
Now if I were like you, then I would automatically reject this
document completely, since the SPLC is a far left hate group, one of
the worst. But instead I took the time to read through it and learn
from it, and decided that despite the left-wing bias and selection of
topics, it contains a lot of interesting historical information that
fills in a number of blanks. I can use that information to compare
against other sources, and develop a complete non-ideological picture.
I would treat the D'Souza article the same way. So that's how I
operate, completely the opposite of how you operate.
So I'd like to take this one step further and address the personal
attacks that you have directed at me, because I found them to be
particularly interesting personal attacks.
(06-02-2020, 11:15 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: > Have you ever been a social pariah though? ...
> Nor do I envision Dinesh D’Souza being pariah. Well, not a
> permanent one at least. His writing is inflammatory, and there
> were a few points at which he angered even the reds. At the
> moment, Trump should have gathered a large enough circle. ...
> I have come to see Xenakis’s problem as not Cassandra’s sin of
> accurately foretelling to those who don’t want to hear. It is of
> having an extreme eccentric point of view that he pushes to the
> degree of discomfort.
I find this very amusing. I have no idea whether D’Souza is
considered a pariah, but you seem to think that his views are rejected
by Republicans. This doesn't surprise me in the least, but it does
contradict your previous claims that he's a right-wing ideologue.
You also call me a pariah, which is true. You say that I'm eccentric,
which is also probably true. But it's for exactly the reason you
reject -- that like the Biblical Jeremiah and the mythical Cassandra
and historical Winston Churchill -- I'm hated and shunned because I'm
eccentric and because I'm accurately foretelling events that you don't
want to hear.
I've previously talked about this. My very first Generational
Dynamics analysis on May 1, 2003, when president George Bush published
his "Mideast Roadmap to Peace," which described the details of a
two-state solution, and I predicted that it will never happen. The
Generational Dynamics prediction was that the plan would fail because
the Jews and the Arabs would be refighting the 1948 war that followed
the partitioning of Palestine and the creation of the state of Israel.
I was ridiculed for that prediction, in e-mail, in person, and on the
TFT forum. And since it was my first major prediction, I knew that it
could be wrong, and that within a few months Yasser Arafat and Arial
Sharon might be shaking hands on a two-state solution deal. I had
said that wouldn't happen, but if it did, then I would have abandoned
Generational Dynamics, and led a much happier life. And of course I
was right, and all the people who ridiculed me were wrong. Dead
wrong.
That kind of thing has happened over and over -- I'm right and the
people who criticized and ridicule me turn out to be wrong. If that
weren't happening, you can be sure that I would have given up
Generational Dynamics long ago. But I'm obsessively driven to
continue down this "extremely eccentric" self-destructive path because
I'm always right, and everyone else is always wrong. If you want to
psychoanalyze me, start from there. And then I have to watch as
people, even people that I've known for years, hate me and shun me.
That's the Life Path that Fate has chosen for me.
In 17 years, I have over 6,000 articles on my web site, making
thousands of predictions and analyses for hundreds of countries and
societies, and they've all turned out to be right. If that weren't
true, and if my analyses started turning out to be false, then I'd
give up Generational Dynamics, and probably live a happier life. But
I haven't been so lucky as to be wrong. Instead I'm always right,
which is extremely unlucky.
You, on the other hand, are much luckier than I am. You're wrong all
the time, so you're much happier than I am. You have absolutely no
clue what's going on in the world. That's "obvious" every time you
post something. Your ignorance is so vast it could fill the Grand
Canyon. I know what your level of knowledge is because I know that
you live in the CNN bubble, and CNN is a total sewer.
So let me at least make this clear to you: We're headed for a major
global financial crisis and WW III with China, no matter who wins the
election. This is 100% certain. You can live in your fantasy world
where you "anticipate much noise between Trump and China" but no war,
but you're dead wrong. But unlike me you're happy, and that's all
that's important.
And I have some other good news for you. By the time that I'm proven
100% correct, I'll almost certainly be dead, so you won't have to
apologize to me for being wrong.
John Xenakis is author of: "World View: War Between China and Japan:
Why America Must Be Prepared" (Generational Theory Book Series, Book
2), June 2019
Paperback: 331 pages, over 200 source references, $13.99
https://www.amazon.com/World-View-Between-Prepared-Generational/dp/1732738637/
Arthur Schopenhauer Wrote:> "All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed;
> Second, it is violently opposed; and Third, it is accepted as
> self-evident."
William James, 1896 Wrote:> "When a thing is new, people say: 'It is not true.' Later, when
> its truth becomes obvious, they say: 'It is not important.'
> Finally, when its importance cannot be denied, they say: 'Anyway,
> it is not new.'"
Voltaire Wrote:> "It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
> authorities are wrong."
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - Bob Butler 54 - 06-03-2020
(06-03-2020, 01:13 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: However, that's all changed with the Race Riot Crisis. As usual, the media are blaming the race riots on Trump, but it's quickly becoming more acceptable to end the lockdowns, for three reasons. First, time has passed, and some lockdowns were going to end anyway. Secondly, it's become clear that the lockdowns are hitting minority-owned businesses the hardest, and many businesses that were expected to reopen soon are now destroyed by the race riots, and this has hurt blacks and other minorities the worst. And third, if mass protests are going on, then certainly other activities can also go on, and a lockdown doesn't make sense.
I would say the above is woefully inadequate, does not show the blue perspective.
Cuomo in one of his daily press conferences made a big point of separating the protesters from the looters. The major point of the protestors is to exercise their right to assemble and to petition for the redress of grievances. The grievance in question is centuries of abuse by the police. They are looking for more equality, for a what we called a cultural reboot. Simply, what has been tolerated for years they argue will be tolerated no longer.
The Boogaloo Bois are working towards an entirely different motive. They are using the protests as a cover to instigate their dreamed of civil war. They are pseudo Marxists, of the belief that revolution is the only way to change a culture dominated by the elites. The blue mind set as expressed by Cuomo is that protests are good but looting is very bad.
During one protest against police abuse, one person used a hammer against the blacktop in an attempt to incite a feeling of lawlessness. Several protesters surrounded him and dragged him to the police. In another incident, several police men went after people for the crime of driving while black. The police chief fired and placed charges against the policemen in question. This is the sort of thing that has to be done often if the culture of police abuse of minorities is to be broken. Police have to serve and protect the people, not abuse and kill the people.
Trump is blamed for escalating the violence, and for not distinguishing between the two groups, the two entirely different motivations. He has not covered himself with glory. The escapade of breaking up peaceful lawful protests for a photo op using the church and Bible as props tops it. But, the protestors and the looting would have occurred anyway. These were not caused by Trump. He only made it worse by his actions.
It is acknowledged that holding protests could aid the spread of the virus, and that lockdown releases in some places occurred too soon, when the cases and deaths were still going up. I anticipate more attempts at isolation as this becomes more obvious. We will see if, say, the protests bump the numbers in New York City, and delay the reopening by the numbers. We will see if the happy talk governors who opened as the numbers were going up continue to do so.
(06-03-2020, 01:13 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: The race riots have had another consequence. The Chinese are really gloating about the riots, and are claiming that the Americans are hypocrites for criticizing the CCP policies in Hong Kong, claiming that American policies in dealing with riots are the same.
Of greater concern is the fear that China may use the American race riots to justify military action in Hong Kong or Taiwan.
I could agree with that. The Trump policies could be used by China. Not America’s response, but Trump’s. You respond to protests against bad policy by fixing the policy, not by show of force. I suspect that this is not a huge factor. China will do whatever they do with or without Trump’s bungling.
I also see Hong Kong as far more likely than Taiwan.
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - Bob Butler 54 - 06-03-2020
(06-03-2020, 01:26 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: Well, I'm really not familiar with Nixon's Southern Strategy, so I decided to check it out. I ended up linking to:
*** The myth of Nixon’s ‘Southern Strategy’ - Dinesh D'Souza https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/402754-the-myth-of-nixons-southern-strategy
However, I'm not particularly "enamored of" Dinesh D'Souza as you claim. I'm actually just vaguely aware of him. He's one of dozens or perhaps hundreds of analysts across the political spectrum whose views I hear all the time on Fox News, BBC, Al-Jazeera, CNN, MS-NBC, RFI, and others. And if I recall correctly, the few times I've seen him on TV, I haven't always agreed with everything he says. Generational Dynamics successfully analyzes historical and current events and is right pretty much 100% of the time, while ideological right-wingers and left-wingers are usually wrong around 50% of the time. So D'Souza is not particularly special to me, and certainly not always right, although your child-like brain is pleased to think he is.
D'Sousa is in Trump's circle, somewhere to the right of the right. I am glad to see you changed your opinion on D'Souza.
(06-03-2020, 01:26 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: The reason that I linked to that document is because of its content. It described the history of Nixon's Southern Strategy, gave all the relevant facts, and responded to your "obvious" claim, which "obviously" was ridiculous, as I explained above.
Of course not. It came from an ideological source. It contrasted completely with the main line history of which you seem ignorant. I suggest you research a number of non ideological histories.
(06-03-2020, 01:26 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: As I've noted a while ago when I described how Leon Festinger's Cognitive Dissonance was completely deranging your mind.
You completely misunderstand cognitive dissonance. You are obviously no psychiatrist, nor willing to check a term before you misuse it. Cognitive dissonance is when you act against your beliefs, for example if you believe smoking is harmful but smoke anyway. Your use of the term was completely inapproriate.
(06-03-2020, 01:26 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: You're like CNN, rejecting any view that doesn't match the Democratic Party talking points.
I don't consider this unusual. Everyone has a bias. They tend to reject theories that are well outside their bias. Humans do not independently evaluate every problem, but use their shortcut world view to get quickly towards a solution. The question is whether they have a scientific world view, that they make a point of checking the problem against reality. One alternative is a political world view, of distorting their image of reality to commit to a political ideology. This is why I will give honor to a few valid red points, as many as possible in fact, while you are consistently red.
(06-03-2020, 01:26 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: A couple of days ago, I wanted to get further information on the history of the KKK, and I came across an SPLC document:
*** Ku Klux Klan - A History of Racism and Violence
https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/Ku-Klux-Klan-A-History-of-Racism.pdf
Now if I were like you, then I would automatically reject this document completely, since the SPLC is a far left hate group, one of the worst. But instead I took the time to read through it and learn from it, and decided that despite the left-wing bias and selection of topics, it contains a lot of interesting historical information that fills in a number of blanks. I can use that information to compare against other sources, and develop a complete non-ideological picture. I would treat the D'Souza article the same way. So that's how I operate, completely the opposite of how you operate.
I scanned through the documents referenced, and was of course not surprised by any of it. I had studied my history. Oh, some dates and specifics were new, but it was quite in line with the main line history of which I was quite aware. It was not a revelation as is seemed to be to you.
(06-03-2020, 01:26 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: So I'd like to take this one step further and address the personal attacks that you have directed at me, because I found them to be particularly interesting personal attacks.
LOL. Idiot. Has it occurred to you that I did not begin the personal attacks? But when you are dealing with a political ideologue, it becomes almost required to get their attention.
It is not so amazing that you consider yourself perfect in making predictions if you limit what you acknowledge to things compatible to your world view. If you miss things like the Japanese cultural reboot after World War II, or the Civil Rights Movement, or the behavior of the KKK over the years, or governments being careful in what messages are sent to each other, or two of the three reasons for war, you are using your worldview to predict your worldview. Not difficult, but not meaningful. I will continue to monitor your 'predictions', and correct what your ideology. and ignorance of main line history prevents you from seeing.
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - Bob Butler 54 - 06-03-2020
Another twist....
I have added a little bit to your perspective. If you have researched things like the Southern Strategy or the history of the KKK, this is a good thing, even if you try to pick up things from ideological sources. This shows a willingness to learn and to adjust. This is good.
The problem is that the opposite is not true. I am familiar enough with history and the red perspectives that nothing you have suggested has been a surprise. Thus, no changes or improvements in my perspective. All that is left is the personal attacks, and those too are way off base. As I don’t recognize myself, they miss entirely. I am not for instance in a state of confusion due to your unique version of cognitive dissonance. That response is entirely a fiction of your imagination.
The difference is in accurately understanding rival ways of looking at things. If you depend on your ideology to tell you what blues typically think, you are going to miss entirely. You might try actually listening to what the other guy says. It allows you to respond effectively.
Try it. It might make you less of a pariah.
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - John J. Xenakis - 06-04-2020
** 04-Jun-2020 World View: Dumb and happy
(06-03-2020, 07:30 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: > Try it. It might make you less of a pariah.
Lol! I could no more stop being a pariah than you could stop being
dumb and happy. But please don't stop. Your way is much better.
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - Bob Butler 54 - 06-04-2020
(06-04-2020, 06:41 AM)John J. Xenakis Wrote:(06-03-2020, 07:30 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: > Try it. It might make you less of a pariah.
Lol! I could no more stop being a pariah than you could stop being dumb and happy. But please don't stop. Your way is much better.
Who is dumb and happy? Who is leaning to research important things from who? Who is the pariah for pushing such weird ideas? Who is familiar with main line history and who is surprised by it when shaken out of his ignorance?
I know my way is much better. That isn't the question. It is your sticking to yours.
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - Warren Dew - 06-04-2020
(06-04-2020, 06:41 AM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: ** 04-Jun-2020 World View: Dumb and happy
(06-03-2020, 07:30 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: > Try it. It might make you less of a pariah.
Lol! I could no more stop being a pariah than you could stop being
dumb and happy. But please don't stop. Your way is much better.
You could have a stroke, start being wrong all the time by believing all the things Bob believes, and I bet you wouldn't be a pariah any more.
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - Warren Dew - 06-04-2020
(06-03-2020, 01:26 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: So let me at least make this clear to you: We're headed for a major
global financial crisis and WW III with China, no matter who wins the
election. This is 100% certain. You can live in your fantasy world
where you "anticipate much noise between Trump and China" but no war,
but you're dead wrong. But unlike me you're happy, and that's all
that's important.
Are you saying that war will necessarily happen on Trump's watch? I can imagine Biden winning through sufficient mail in vote fraud in November, but he is trying to outdo Trump on the antichinese rhetoric, so that wouldn't change the escalation with China.
That said, I can also imagine internal collapse in China like the last two times, perhaps helped along a bit by the West.
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - Bob Butler 54 - 06-04-2020
(06-04-2020, 03:06 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:(06-03-2020, 01:26 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: So let me at least make this clear to you: We're headed for a major
global financial crisis and WW III with China, no matter who wins the
election. This is 100% certain. You can live in your fantasy world
where you "anticipate much noise between Trump and China" but no war,
but you're dead wrong. But unlike me you're happy, and that's all
that's important.
Are you saying that war will necessarily happen on Trump's watch? I can imagine Biden winning through sufficient mail in vote fraud in November, but he is trying to outdo Trump on the antichinese rhetoric, so that wouldn't change the escalation with China.
That said, I can also imagine internal collapse in China like the last two times, perhaps helped along a bit by the West.
We'll see. The right is famous for living in fantasy worlds. The predictions made are divergent enough and relatively soon. I don't see the US cutting itself off from the biggest manufacturer of medical supplies just now. There is the problem of how to start the right war, a land war in Asia or a sea war with the US. I see everyone as ready to switch to the high mentality as soon as possible. We'll see.
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - John J. Xenakis - 06-05-2020
** 05-Jun-2020 World View: Having a stroke
(06-03-2020, 07:30 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: > Try it. It might make you less of a pariah.
(06-04-2020, 06:41 AM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: > ** 04-Jun-2020 World View: Dumb and happy
> Lol! I could no more stop being a pariah than you could stop
> being dumb and happy. But please don't stop. Your way is much
> better.
(06-04-2020, 03:02 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: > You could have a stroke, start being wrong all the time by
> believing all the things Bob believes, and I bet you wouldn't be a
> pariah any more.
Lol!! It's tempting, but how do you give yourself a stroke?
(06-04-2020, 03:06 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: > Are you saying that war will necessarily happen on Trump's watch?
> I can imagine Biden winning through sufficient mail in vote fraud
> in November, but he is trying to outdo Trump on the antichinese
> rhetoric, so that wouldn't change the escalation with China.
> That said, I can also imagine internal collapse in China like the
> last two times, perhaps helped along a bit by the West.
I agree. All I meant was that war is coming, whether Trump wins
or Biden wins.
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - John J. Xenakis - 06-05-2020
** 05-Jun-2020 World View: Hydroxychloroquine 'science' scam
Higgenbotham Wrote:> "What was going on? How and why did the largely progressive and
> left-leaning proponents of wellness merge with rightwing
> conspiracy theorists and Donald Trump supporters?"
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/05/wellness-advocates-used-to-talk-about-bali-trips-and-coconut-oilnow-its-bill-gates-and-5g
> This is a good example of what I was talking about the other
> day. "Conspiracy theorists" has become a dog whistle primarily
> used to bash people the elites don't like, lately, Donald Trump
> supporters.
> In dealing with elites, one thing I learned a long time ago is
> that if an elite conjures up some bullshit they expect it to be
> accepted by default, but if a non-elite conjures up equivalent or
> lesser bullshit or non-bullshit that implicates an elite, it has
> to be defended and proven, and is classified as a "conspiracy
> theory" by default, even if proven otherwise.
> If the elites conjure up some bullshit regarding COVID-19, such
> as, "You know, when we get a vaccine we can chip everyone," or
> whatever pottymouth Bill Gates was babbling about, that needs to
> be accepted by default, but if a non-elite talks about COVID-19
> and 5g, that is automatically deemed to be a right wing conspiracy
> theory, and the bar for proving any link between the two is set
> somewhere beyond the outer rings of Saturn.
A perfect example of what you've learned has emerged in the last 24
hours. After Donald Trump spoke hopefully about the drug
hydroxychloroquine, and announced that he had been taking it himself,
the mainstream media immediately rushed to publicize and push a
"study" that showed that hydroxychloroquine was useless and dangerous,
ignoring a great deal of anecdotal evidence.
So now it suddenly turns out that this so-called "scientific study"
was invalid and may have simply been a hoax. According to one report,
"The number of patients in Australia captured by the study was greater
than the total number of known patients in Australia." Discovery of
that inconsistency led to discoveries of more inconsistencies.
We can assume that the "scientists" who pushed this study were
never-Trumpers and could use their exalted élite status to "prove"
that Trump ignores science, while the exalted élites follow the
science. As in the case of many other areas, especially climate
change, a lot of the so-called "science" is just ideological crap from
left-wing activists who are no more than pigs at the money trough.
Quote:> "Covid-19: Lancet retracts paper that halted
> hydroxychloroquine trials
> Hydroxychloroquine has been pushed by Donald Trump and others as a
> possible treatment for people with coronavirus. ...
> A Guardian investigation had revealed errors in the data that was
> provided for the research by US company Surgisphere. These were
> later explained by the company as some patients being wrongly
> allocated to Australia instead of Asia. But more anomalies were
> then picked up. A further Guardian investigation found that there
> were serious questions to be asked about the company itself. ...
> The World Health Organization and several countries suspended
> randomised controlled trials that were set up to find an
> answer. Those trials have now been restarted. Many scientists were
> angry that they had been stopped on the basis of a trial that was
> observational and not a “gold standard” RCT. ...
> In a statement, published by the journal, the authors said:
> “Because all the authors were not granted access to the raw data
> and the raw data could not be made available to a third-party
> auditor, we are unable to validate the primary data sources
> underlying our article, ‘Cardiovascular Disease, Drug Therapy, and
> Mortality in Covid-19’. We therefore request that the article be
> retracted.
> “We apologise to the editors and to readers of the Journal for the
> difficulties that this has caused.”"
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/04/covid-19-lancet-retracts-paper-that-halted-hydroxychloroquine-trials
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - Bob Butler 54 - 06-05-2020
(06-04-2020, 03:06 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: I can imagine Biden winning through sufficient mail in vote fraud in November...
I can't see why Biden would bother. I don't worship polls as much as Pbower, but if they show anything like they do currently why give Trump an excuse to contest the election results? The Ukraine, the bug, and the George Floyd responses were a disaster. The economy will be a mess, even if you can't blame Trump for that. Those implementing a scientific response to the bug are much more popular than the happy talkers. The results of the opening up of the happy talk states will be long apparent by the election.
I really don't see the switchover of power being much different than any other during the flip flop period of the unraveling.
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - Bob Butler 54 - 06-05-2020
(06-05-2020, 03:56 AM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: We can assume that the "scientists" who pushed this study were never-Trumpers and could use their exalted élite status to "prove" that Trump ignores science, while the exalted élites follow the science. As in the case of many other areas, especially climate change, a lot of the so-called "science" is just ideological crap from left-wing activists who are no more than pigs at the money trough.
We'll see if the future studies yield a different result. I don't think there should be a lot of doubt that the push towards small government over rides the science for many Republicans. Your use of emotional prejudicial language is typical, showing your ideological prejudices.
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - David Horn - 06-05-2020
(06-03-2020, 01:12 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: ** 02-Jun-2020 World View: Civil war
During the Revolutionary war, it was the British army vs the Colonial army. During the Civil War, it was the Northern army vs the Southern army. Today, there are no such armies.
If there is anything the 20th century taught military strategists, it's the value of guerilla forces. I count these ad hoc rightwing militias and anarchist entities (they aren't groups) like Antifa and the Boogaloo Bois as our guerilla forces in waiting. Trump has done everything he can to incite them. If this gets started as anarchy, it will end as autocracy ... or worse.
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - Bob Butler 54 - 06-05-2020
(06-05-2020, 07:23 AM)David Horn Wrote:(06-03-2020, 01:12 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: ** 02-Jun-2020 World View: Civil war
During the Revolutionary war, it was the British army vs the Colonial army. During the Civil War, it was the Northern army vs the Southern army. Today, there are no such armies.
If there is anything the 20th century taught military strategists, it's the value of guerilla forces. I count these ad hoc rightwing militias and anarchist entities (they aren't groups) like Antifa and the Boogaloo Bois as our guerilla forces in waiting. Trump has done everything he can to incite them. If this gets started as anarchy, it will end as autocracy ... or worse.
The militias have recognized elections. If anything would set them off it would be a strict gun control. Otherwise they look more like a force in being. They are there, but don’t do much. The Antifa exists primarily to counter KKK and Neo Nazi demonstrations. The KKK and Neo Nazi groups aren’t ready to fight an insurgency. They are there to inflame the racial distinctions, and would have to do some serious rethinking to oppose the federal military and police. The Boogaloo Bois are trying to cause violence and lawlessness, which is different from fighting an insurgency. They would have to reorganize, if you consider them organized.
This doesn’t mean an insurgency couldn’t develop if someone went strongly against the people.
Rachel Maddow last night spotlighted that federal armed men who are not willing to identify who they are have recently shown up in DC. There is nothing like a unit ID, badge number or a name tag visible on their uniforms to identify them or hold them accountable.
Now, I can see the feds having a place in DC to defend federal buildings. I do not see them with a policing authority, a second police force not answering to the DC mayor.
I wonder what would happen if they step off federal property and a DC cop asked them to show a gun permit?
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - David Horn - 06-05-2020
(06-05-2020, 07:56 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Rachel Maddow last night spotlighted that federal armed men who are not willing to identify who they are have recently shown up in DC. There is nothing like a unit ID, badge number or a name tag visible on their uniforms to identify them or hold them accountable.
Now, I can see the feds having a place in DC to defend federal buildings. I do not see them with a policing authority, a second police force not answering to the DC mayor.
I wonder what would happen if they step off federal property and a DC cop asked them to show a gun permit?
The bigger worry is, why are they there at all, and why are they a secret police force? This is not trivial. Even though they are just standing around, they are an affront to our system of government being answerable to the people.
DC is an odd place: the ultimate symbol of the American government, but only partly engaged in it. They are citizens, vote for a Representative, but have no Senators to represent them in that body. What's known as the Federal District really is a Federal domain, in an otherwise self governing city. That said, the typical resident at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue doesn't act like a king inside his personal domain. Trump does. Add the unsettling issue of "law enforcement personnel" with no identifiable pedigree, and it's about as unnerving as it can be.
When Caesar crossed the Rubicon, he brought the Roman Legions into the city for the first time. He was assassinated for his trouble, but the Republic still ended right there. Trump still has combat troops standing by. He may think he's a better Caesar than Julius.
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - Warren Dew - 06-05-2020
(06-05-2020, 03:53 AM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: Lol!! It's tempting, but how do you give yourself a stroke?
Just for the record, I hope you don't get a stroke. You're providing useful information to those of us who are open minded enough to consider it.
Quote:So now it suddenly turns out that this so-called "scientific study"
was invalid and may have simply been a hoax. According to one report,
"The number of patients in Australia captured by the study was greater
than the total number of known patients in Australia." Discovery of
that inconsistency led to discoveries of more inconsistencies.
It was worse than just one study. The errors were in a database that was used in several different studies. It's a symptom of how lazy "scientists" are these days that the actual studies didn't bother to gather their own data, but instead just relied on questionable data from other.
I bet if we dug enough, those studies would turn out to be tied to drug companies. The last thing drug companies want is an effective off patent solution.
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - Bob Butler 54 - 06-05-2020
(06-05-2020, 09:18 AM)David Horn Wrote: When Caesar crossed the Rubicon, he brought the Roman Legions into the city for the first time. He was assassinated for his trouble, but the Republic still ended right there. Trump still has combat troops standing by. He may think he's a better Caesar than Julius.
I have been wondering a bit as to what happens if Trump refuses to concede power. I can see Biden taking no steps outside arguing before various courts. I can see Trump refusing to attend the inauguration. I can see Biden insisting on the Chief Justice giving the oath of office.
From there it gets a little iffy. I currently have the Secret Service putting Trump in cuffs, frog marching him onto Marine One, giving him a last ride on Air Force One...
Destination, New York, where he has a date with a judge on his finances... I picture a bunch of Department of Justice officials meeting the plane.
RE: Generational Dynamics World View - John J. Xenakis - 06-05-2020
** 05-Jun-2020 World View: Refusing to concede
(06-05-2020, 01:41 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: > I have been wondering a bit as to what happens if Trump refuses to
> concede power. I can see Biden taking no steps outside arguing
> before various courts. I can see Trump refusing to attend the
> inauguration. I can see Biden insisting on the Chief Justice
> giving the oath of office.
> From there it gets a little iffy. I currently have the Secret
> Service putting Trump in cuffs, frog marching him onto Marine One,
> giving him a last ride on Air Force One...
> Destination, New York, where he has a date with a judge on his
> finances... I picture a bunch of Department of Justice officials
> meeting the plane.
Lol! Every day you seem more delusional than you did the previous
day.