5G is on the way! - Printable Version +- Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory (http://generational-theory.com/forum) +-- Forum: Fourth Turning Forums (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-1.html) +--- Forum: Technology (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-27.html) +--- Thread: 5G is on the way! (/thread-5119.html) Pages:
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5G is on the way! - pbrower2a - 09-10-2018 As you can expect from someone my age (62), I am leery of technologies that allegedly can revolutionize society. I have seen it all since I was a kid back in the 1960s, and I usually recognize hype when I encounter it. Most innovative technologies have high costs (so that the creators can recover costs of development), so it is usually wise to be a late adapter, but not so late that one ends up with something no longer useful or adequate. Being five years behind the times is fine, because you will end up with fifteen-year-old technology after ten years and hardly notice a thing until you start to see it get inadequate. The "G" refers to generation and not to gigabytes, so it is not simply an increase in the level of information available. More information available? I have difficulty sifting through what there is now, and you can probably figure out quickly that I am no dummy. I just don/t like to pay big money for stuff that I can never understand. let alone use. Quote:5G is coming, and it’s going to have a massive impact on almost every facet of how we use technology, with faster speeds and lower latency theoretically opening up huge new frontiers in everything from smartphones to self-driving cars. https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/7/17829270/5g-phone-cell-mobile-network-hardware RE: 5G is on the way! - pbrower2a - 09-10-2018 The practical key to this technology is exploitation of the millimeter band of electromagnetic radiation: Quote:The millimeter-wave region of the electromagnetic spectrum is usually considered to be the range of wavelengths from 10 millimeters (0.4 inches) to 1 millimeter (0.04 inches). This means millimeter waves are longer than infrared waves or x-rays, for example, but shorter than radio waves or microwaves. The millimeter-wave region of the electromagnetic spectrum corresponds to radio band frequencies of 30 GHz to 300 GHz and is sometimes called the Extremely High Frequency (EHF) range. The high frequency of millimeters waves as well as their propagation characteristics (that is, the ways they change or interact with the atmosphere as they travel) make them useful for a variety of applications including transmitting large amounts of computer data, cellular communications, and radar. https://ethw.org/Millimeter_Waves RE: 5G is on the way! - pbrower2a - 09-10-2018 If this can be done economically for mobile communications, then it can also work for non-mobile communications such as broadcasting to fixed objects (like household radio, telephones, telephones, and computers). It could put land links for cable television and even the Internet onto the technological scrap-heap. Low cost of new and more functional technologies kills old technologies. RE: 5G is on the way! - David Horn - 09-10-2018 (09-10-2018, 05:19 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: If this can be done economically for mobile communications, then it can also work for non-mobile communications such as broadcasting to fixed objects (like household radio, telephones, telephones, and computers). It could put land links for cable television and even the Internet onto the technological scrap-heap. Low cost of new and more functional technologies kills old technologies. Even though the analogy is a bit off, you might think of 5G as being more like the Wi-Fi service you get from your router than a phone service you get from the current network of towers. 5G will use small master stations, most of them located on short poles roughly every city block -- even closer as the technology fully matures. The infrastructure will be individually cheap but massively expensive due to the shear number of locations that will be needed. If you live in a city, you'll see this much sooner than you will in the suburbs. The exurbs and rural areas won't see 5G for a decade. Once it's in place, it will support up to 1,000,000 nodes per square kilometer. Nodes will be cellphones and similar smart devices, but the vast majority will be part of the Internet of Things. Your car, for example, may consist of 10 to several hundred nodes communicating with other cars, the highway, your refrigerator at home (need more milk!) or finding you gasoline or a charging station. Supporting old technology applications like video or phone service will be easy, and on-demand. Eventually, everything will pass through these 5G networks, making them both useful providers and massive monopoly overlords. If you think Facebook is excessively powerful, stand by for much worse. RE: 5G is on the way! - pbrower2a - 09-10-2018 (09-10-2018, 10:42 AM)David Horn Wrote:(09-10-2018, 05:19 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: If this can be done economically for mobile communications, then it can also work for non-mobile communications such as broadcasting to fixed objects (like household radio, telephones, telephones, and computers). It could put land links for cable television and even the Internet onto the technological scrap-heap. Low cost of new and more functional technologies kills old technologies. Thanks for the qualification. Forecasts of technological availability are more justifiable for densely-populated, prosperous areas with young populations and unjustifiably rosy for places with thin population or a poor or elderly population. If the technology is cheap on an individual basis (like that for a satellite dish?) then even a farm family might be able to afford a 5G 'mini-center'. But this implies a qualification: the farm family would have to (1) afford it and (2) adopt it to get it. There will be plenty of nodes, including TV sets, cell phones, home-entertainment devices (including the boom-boxes and video players). Government might subsidize 5R in impoverished areas largely to offer educational access -- urban slums, Appalachia and the Ozarks, the Lower Rio Grande Valley, and Indian reservations. Quote:Once it's in place, it will support up to 1,000,000 nodes per square kilometer. Nodes will be cellphones and similar smart devices, but the vast majority will be part of the Internet of Things. Your car, for example, may consist of 10 to several hundred nodes communicating with other cars, the highway, your refrigerator at home (need more milk!) or finding you gasoline or a charging station. Supporting old technology applications like video or phone service will be easy, and on-demand. Eventually, everything will pass through these 5G networks, making them both useful providers and massive monopoly overlords. Also -- appliances including stoves and microwave ovens. Quote:If you think Facebook is excessively powerful, stand by for much worse. I have never known of any new technology without some questionable consequences. RE: 5G is on the way! - Eric the Green - 09-16-2018 Acronymns, ugh ugh! Explain, define them please! Google: In telecommunication, Long-Term Evolution (LTE) is a standard for high-speed wireless communication for mobile devices and data terminals, based on the GSM/EDGE and UMTS/HSPA technologies. ... LTE is the upgrade path for carriers with both GSM/UMTS networks and CDMA2000 networks Uh, now I understand (cough cough) (ugh ugh) RE: 5G is on the way! - Eric the Green - 09-16-2018 Facebook may be powerful, but my use of it seems impotent. People do not change their minds as a result of what I write, any more than they do here, or anywhere else before. I don't notice much mind-shifting going on these days among anyone else either. So what difference does it make how fast or how far we can communicate, if we can't communicate? RE: 5G is on the way! - pbrower2a - 09-17-2018 (09-16-2018, 10:54 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Facebook may be powerful, but my use of it seems impotent. People do not change their minds as a result of what I write, any more than they do here, or anywhere else before. I don't notice much mind-shifting going on these days among anyone else either. Trump's people and his Russian backers were initially successful in finding ways to exploit its potential for propaganda. But we are catching on. The propaganda faces diminishing returns as people find out that they have been taken if they did not reject it initially. To achieve his agenda, Trump needs a near-dictatorship, which he is not getting. RE: 5G is on the way! - Galen - 09-21-2018 (09-16-2018, 10:54 PM)Eric the Obtuse Wrote: Facebook may be powerful, but my use of it seems impotent. People do not change their minds as a result of what I write, any more than they do here, or anywhere else before. I don't notice much mind-shifting going on these days among anyone else either. Did it ever occur to you that people who read your writings consider you to be full of shit? RE: 5G is on the way! - David Horn - 09-21-2018 (09-16-2018, 10:52 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Acronymns, ugh ugh! Explain, define them please! Translations:
BTW, many if not most 4G/LTE phones will not work on 5G networks at all, though the 4G networks will continue to operate "for some time", whatever that means. Assume a windfall for Apple and Samsung. A lot depends on how the GMS/UMTS and CDMA2000 standards are merged at 5G, which is still not completely known. RE: 5G is on the way! - David Horn - 09-21-2018 (09-21-2018, 03:58 AM)Galen Wrote:(09-16-2018, 10:54 PM)Eric the Obtuse Wrote: Facebook may be powerful, but my use of it seems impotent. People do not change their minds as a result of what I write, any more than they do here, or anywhere else before. I don't notice much mind-shifting going on these days among anyone else either. Did you ever consider the same? RE: 5G is on the way! - pbrower2a - 09-21-2018 (09-21-2018, 03:58 AM)Galen Wrote:(09-16-2018, 10:54 PM)Eric the Obtuse Wrote: Facebook may be powerful, but my use of it seems impotent. People do not change their minds as a result of what I write, any more than they do here, or anywhere else before. I don't notice much mind-shifting going on these days among anyone else either. Consider yourself reported. RE: 5G is on the way! - Galen - 09-22-2018 (09-21-2018, 01:49 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:(09-21-2018, 03:58 AM)Galen Wrote:(09-16-2018, 10:54 PM)Eric the Obtuse Wrote: Facebook may be powerful, but my use of it seems impotent. People do not change their minds as a result of what I write, any more than they do here, or anywhere else before. I don't notice much mind-shifting going on these days among anyone else either. Oh the horror! What will I do? RE: 5G is on the way! - Galen - 09-22-2018 (09-21-2018, 09:33 AM)David Horn Wrote:(09-21-2018, 03:58 AM)Galen Wrote:(09-16-2018, 10:54 PM)Eric the Obtuse Wrote: Facebook may be powerful, but my use of it seems impotent. People do not change their minds as a result of what I write, any more than they do here, or anywhere else before. I don't notice much mind-shifting going on these days among anyone else either. You are forgetting that Eric the Obtuse has a knowledge of science equal to that of the seventeenth century when Astrology was state of the art. That and he still thinks socialism can work which indicates his contact with reality is sporadic at best. RE: 5G is on the way! - David Horn - 09-22-2018 (09-22-2018, 02:59 AM)Galen Wrote: You are forgetting that Eric the Obtuse has a knowledge of science equal to that of the seventeenth century when Astrology was state of the art. That and he still thinks socialism can work which indicates his contact with reality is sporadic at best. Two things:
RE: 5G is on the way! - pbrower2a - 09-22-2018 (09-22-2018, 02:59 AM)Galen Wrote: You are forgetting that Eric the (Green) has a knowledge of science equal to that of the seventeenth century when Astrology was state of the art. That and he still thinks socialism can work which indicates his contact with reality is sporadic at best. Social-market system. Pure capitalism, the inhuman form in which the vast majority of people must suffer for the gain, indulgence, and power of a minuscule portion of Humanity, is morally reprehensible and incompatible with democracy and humanism. A social market system melds the incentives of capitalism with respect for the most vulnerable among us. The current manifestation of capitalism under Donald Trump basically kicks people when they are down and keeps shoving people down to be kicked even more. Eric seems to have a rigorous respect for science. He applies that rigor to astrology, which is not science. If anyone could make astrology work it is he. RE: 5G is on the way! - Galen - 09-24-2018 (09-22-2018, 02:59 PM)David Horn Wrote:(09-22-2018, 02:59 AM)Galen Wrote: You are forgetting that Eric the Obtuse has a knowledge of science equal to that of the seventeenth century when Astrology was state of the art. That and he still thinks socialism can work which indicates his contact with reality is sporadic at best. You are wrong about this but you can't understand why. Why is it that every time socialism has been tried it has failed badly every time. You would do well to consider what Rothbard had to say about Egalitarianism. Come to think of it what Mises had to say about Socialism might me of some value. Eric the Obtuse is an idiot and always has been. Socialism can not and will not ever work for the simple reason that central planning in any form can not work. The death of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact should have taught you that. If the current experience of Venezuela can't teach you that then you truly are too stupid to live. RE: 5G is on the way! - Galen - 09-24-2018 (09-22-2018, 03:59 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Eric seems to have a rigorous respect for science. He applies that rigor to astrology, which is not science. If anyone could make astrology work it is he. The fact that he still tries after all of these centuries with plenty of evidence to the contrary tells any thinking person everything they need to know. RE: 5G is on the way! - pbrower2a - 09-24-2018 (09-24-2018, 03:58 AM)Galen Wrote:(09-22-2018, 02:59 PM)David Horn Wrote:(09-22-2018, 02:59 AM)Galen Wrote: You are forgetting that Eric the Obtuse has a knowledge of science equal to that of the seventeenth century when Astrology was state of the art. That and he still thinks socialism can work which indicates his contact with reality is sporadic at best. What does this ideological drivel have to do with 5G wireless telephony? Extreme inegalitarianism is a barrier to technological and intellectual progress. It implies that nobody can buy innovative products . RE: 5G is on the way! - David Horn - 09-24-2018 (09-24-2018, 03:58 AM)Galen Wrote: You are wrong about this but you can't understand why. Why is it that every time socialism has been tried it has failed badly every time. You would do well to consider what Rothbard had to say about Egalitarianism. Come to think of it what Mises had to say about Socialism might me of some value. Why do you libertarian types equate socialism (ownership of the means of production by the workers themselves) with communism (central ownership and planning). Essentially, they are as similar as beer and gasoline. Capitalism, on the other hand, makes no allowance for distribution outside the ownership class. As jobs are replaced by machines, and all business receipts are held for the owners, how do the prior workers eat, to say nothing of buying all the goods and services capitalist enterprise creates? Since you foreswear all communal methods to distribute outside your narrow structure, capitalism just dies. Note: socialism as I stated it is the most extreme version. Most neo-socialists prefer a mixed but well regulated economy. |