Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory
1995 - Printable Version

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1995 - Bill the Piper - 02-21-2019

The mainstream media seem to think there is a generational boundary around 1995. Now even Pew Research agrees. Why?

If gen Z really starts in 1995, a new turning would have to begin in 1998-9, and I don't see it makes sense. Even 9/11 did not make that much of an influence on people's daily life, as the social media revolution and financial crisis of late 2000s.


RE: 1995 - David Horn - 02-21-2019

(02-21-2019, 01:15 PM)Bill the Piper Wrote: The mainstream media seem to think there is a generational boundary around 1995. Now even Pew Research agrees. Why?

If gen Z really starts in 1995, a new turning would have to begin in 1998-9, and I don't see it makes sense. Even 9/11 did not make that much of an influence on people's daily life, as the social media revolution and financial crisis of late 2000s.

I agree that  this dividing line is arbitrary, but it fits the general assumption that generations are shorter than the S&H generations we use. The sorting criteria are different, so the results are different too. What I find missing is the difference in character that should accompany the generational change.


RE: 1995 - Bill the Piper - 02-22-2019

The current pop cultural definition seem to be:

Xennial 1978-1985
Millennial 1986-94
Gen Z 1995-2009
Gen Alpha 2010+

They base it on things like type of cartoons and toys one experienced in childhood. 1995 was chosen as the beginning of gen Z because Internet Explorer was launched back then.


RE: 1995 - pbrower2a - 02-22-2019

(02-21-2019, 02:19 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(02-21-2019, 01:15 PM)Bill the Piper Wrote: The mainstream media seem to think there is a generational boundary around 1995. Now even Pew Research agrees. Why?

If gen Z really starts in 1995, a new turning would have to begin in 1998-9, and I don't see it makes sense. Even 9/11 did not make that much of an influence on people's daily life, as the social media revolution and financial crisis of late 2000s.

I agree that  this dividing line is arbitrary, but it fits the general assumption that generations are shorter than the S&H generations we use.  The sorting criteria are different, so the results are different too.  What I find missing is the difference in character that should accompany the generational change.

Internet Explorer did not have an effect upon children too young to use it  except perhaps to distract adult attention from children because they became too 'busy' surfing the Web.

I see the Internet not changing life much except to facilitate what people already were doing before the Internet or had a proclivity to do if they got the chance. Communication? People were writing letters.  Shopping on Amazon? They were shopping in brick-and-mortar stores such as Borders and Tower Records that no longer exist. Research? People were going to libraries to do research. Even something so sleazy as looking at porn on the web? They were relying upon magazines and  'dirty books' before that.

So it is a virtual world? Well, so is the book and the magazine.


RE: 1995 - David Horn - 02-22-2019

(02-22-2019, 04:23 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: The current pop cultural definition seem to be:

Xennial 1978-1985
Millennial 1986-94
Gen Z 1995-2009
Gen Alpha 2010+

They base it on things like type of cartoons and toys one experienced in childhood. 1995 was chosen as the beginning of gen Z because Internet Explorer was launched back then.

Of the "generations" listed, only the Xennials have some uniqueness. They are the analog to digital bridge, the transition from continuous to discrete.  Analog was less precise but more accurate. That may be significant ...or not.


RE: 1995 - Eric the Green - 02-22-2019

(02-21-2019, 01:15 PM)Bill the Piper Wrote: The mainstream media seem to think there is a generational boundary around 1995. Now even Pew Research agrees. Why?

If gen Z really starts in 1995, a new turning would have to begin in 1998-9, and I don't see it makes sense. Even 9/11 did not make that much of an influence on people's daily life, as the social media revolution and financial crisis of late 2000s.

It makes no sense, but may have some relevance for subgenerations like Xennials.

Mr. Howe still predicts the 4T will end in 2029, and puts the 4T as starting in 2008. For our purposes, the generational theory works best. This concerns the influence of history and social moods shaping generational archetypes and personalities, with the generational configuration shaping the moods and turnings in turn. Pew research provides a demographic designation, and this only has to do with things like birth rates, and was specifically rejected by S&H and other generation theorists as a method of dating generations.

The generations according to the S&H schedule will be more like this:

Missionary 1860-1882
Lost 1883-1900
GIs 1901-1923
Silent 1924-1942
Boomer 1943-1960
Gen X 1961-1981
Millennial 1982-2003
Gen Z 2004-2024
Generation Alpha 2025-2044

I also use the planetary cycles to give the generations a cosmic correspondence. I wrote about it in my 1997 book
http://philosopherswheel.com/generations.htm

The outer planets are the saeculum planets, and their revolutions through the signs mark the generations and the turnings in the USA. These 3 outer planets, Uranus, Neptune AND yes Pluto, have corresponded more or less to the saeculum since the discovery of Uranus in the 18th century launched us into modern times, in which the common people participated and life spans are about 84 years. Before these planets were known, they had less significance for awareness/social moods of events and saecula, and the saecula were longer then according to S&H. Events often aligned with cycles of Jupiter and Saturn, which are still significant for the ruling establishment and traditional elites. Conjunctions happen every 20 years. For the current 2 or 3 hundred years, this conjunction corresponds to "zero-year" elections and the presidents elected then. The next Jupiter-Saturn conjunction happens on winter solstice day 2020. It is the first conjunction in Aquarius in 800 years, and marks a shift of conjunctions into air signs.

The relationship of these cycles to the birth moment of the nation is key. Other nations have other birth moments and other key events shaping their history, so many posters here and elsewhere claim other dates for other nations. 4-5 years behind the USA seems common for many Western nations. Myself, I tend to think that we are being reshaped into a world civilization, with the old anglo-american saeculum becoming dominant. World War Two effectively put the world on a common schedule. Opinions often differ from mine on this point. Even so, the Uranus Return in a national chart sets up a key cycle and crisis return time.

Uranus' 84-year revolution corresponds to the archetypal length of the saeculum as mentioned in The Fourth Turning. That cycle is 84 years long. The significance of Uranus for astrologers is derived from the same factor as that for the S&H modern saeculum; the length of the average human life.

Within less than half a degree, Uranus returned to the degree and minute of its position at the Declaration of Independence (July 4 1776) at the bombing of Ft. Sumpter (April 12-13, 1861) and D-Day (June 6, 1944). Previous returns happened during King William's War around 1692, and at the founding of Jamestown in 1607. It's next return is in 2027. The Uranus Return and the returns of Neptune and Pluto mark a life and death moment for the nation, a death and rebirth moment for the people.

Neptune's cycle is 165 years and its half cycle is about 82.5 years. Neptune is significant for the double rhythm of the saeculum, since in one cycle it strikes the top of the chart at the crisis climax (e.g. 1776, 1944), signifying the outer or intellectual and foreign affairs orientation of generations and events during the climax and the cycle leading up to it (also called Apollonian by Chas Donald), and in the next cycle it strikes the bottom of the chart, signifying an inward and domestic orientation of the crisis climax and events leading up to it (e.g. 1861, 2025), (called Dionysian).

Neptune returned to its original 1776 position in about 1939-40, and opposed its original position in about 1858-59. It will oppose its original position in 2022. 

Neptune entered the sign Libra (fall equinox point) in 1777 and 1943, and was within 7 minutes of the Libra cusp and stationary on Pearl Harbor Day. Neptune crossed into the sign Aries (vernal equinox point) on April 13, 1861. It will cross this point again in 2025 and January 2026.

Pluto's cycle is 248 years, which sets up a triple rhythm. One-third of the cycle is also about 82 and a half years, like Neptune's one-half cycle. Pluto's first return to its national birth position will happen in 2022.

Neptune's entrance into signs corresponds well to S&H start dates of "dominant" generations.
Neptune entered Scorpio in 1792, S&H start date of the Transcendental Generation.

Since then, Neptune's entrance into cardinal signs (equinox and solstice) marks the S&H start date of dominant generations.

1821 Neptune entered Capricorn, the hybrid Gilded Generation started in 1822
1861 Neptune entered Aries, the Missionary Generation started in 1860
1901 Neptune entered Cancer, the GI Generation started in 1901
1943 Neptune entered Libra, the Boomer Generation started in 1943
1984 Neptune entered Capricorn, the Millennial Generation started in 1982
2025 Neptune enters Aries, marking the start of the Alpha Wave Generation around then.

Regarding 1995: Uranus entered Aquarius in 1996. It's sign entrances and positions help mark subgenerations. I would correspond the Generation Y-c subgeneration of Millennials as the one starting in 1996. Uranus entered Pisces in 2003, corresponding to the true start of Generation Z or whatever it may be called. 

Major conjunctions, squares, oppositions and trines (120 degree angles) among the outer 3 planets can also help mark the subgenerations and turnings.


RE: 1995 - Bill the Piper - 02-23-2019

(02-22-2019, 02:35 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Mr. Howe still predicts the 4T will end in 2029, and puts the 4T as starting in 2008. For our purposes, the generational theory works best. This concerns the influence of history and social moods shaping generational archetypes and personalities, with the generational configuration shaping the moods and turnings in turn. Pew research provides a demographic designation, and this only has to do with things like birth rates, and was specifically rejected by S&H and other generation theorists as a method of dating generations.

Thank you, this explains a lot.

Quote:Missionary 1860-1882
Lost 1883-1900

Olaf Stapledon was born in 1886, and he definitely was a Missionary.

Quote:Gen Z 2004-2024
Generation Alpha 2025-2044

Given that the pop pundits define Generation Alpha as born between 2010 and 2024, I suspect people born in 2004-2009 will start calling themselves Alpha as well (first generation to be born in the new century), while our favourite romantic rebels or neo-Missionaries could be Beta. Unless they reject this name, since beta brain waves stand for everything mundane. Theta waves are about all things "awakening-related": dreaming, intense emotions, even hypnosis. Generation Theta, what a nice name! I wish I could call myself that.


RE: 1995 - Eric the Green - 02-23-2019

(02-23-2019, 06:26 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote:
(02-22-2019, 02:35 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Mr. Howe still predicts the 4T will end in 2029, and puts the 4T as starting in 2008. For our purposes, the generational theory works best. This concerns the influence of history and social moods shaping generational archetypes and personalities, with the generational configuration shaping the moods and turnings in turn. Pew research provides a demographic designation, and this only has to do with things like birth rates, and was specifically rejected by S&H and other generation theorists as a method of dating generations.

Thank you, this explains a lot.

Quote:Missionary 1860-1882
Lost 1883-1900

Olaf Stapledon was born in 1886, and he definitely was a Missionary.

Quote:Gen Z 2004-2024
Generation Alpha 2025-2044

Given that the pop pundits define Generation Alpha as born between 2010 and 2024, I suspect people born in 2004-2009 will start calling themselves Alpha as well (first generation to be born in the new century), while our favourite romantic rebels or neo-Missionaries could be Beta. Unless they reject this name, since beta brain waves stand for everything mundane. Theta waves are about all things "awakening-related": dreaming, intense emotions, even hypnosis. Generation Theta, what a nice name! I wish I could call myself that.

Those who remain interested in a genuine understanding of generations, will still adhere to the original dates similar to those of S&H, and not make the absurd definition of Generation Alpha as born between 2010 and 2024. These cohorts will be adaptives, not prophets, whatever Pew calls them. Generation Theta would be a fine prophet name, but it also disrupts the alphabetical scheme, and as you say Generation Beta will not fly for a prophet group.


RE: 1995 - Marypoza - 02-24-2019

(02-23-2019, 08:45 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(02-23-2019, 06:26 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote:
(02-22-2019, 02:35 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Mr. Howe still predicts the 4T will end in 2029, and puts the 4T as starting in 2008. For our purposes, the generational theory works best. This concerns the influence of history and social moods shaping generational archetypes and personalities, with the generational configuration shaping the moods and turnings in turn. Pew research provides a demographic designation, and this only has to do with things like birth rates, and was specifically rejected by S&H and other generation theorists as a method of dating generations.

Thank you, this explains a lot.

Quote:Missionary 1860-1882
Lost 1883-1900

Olaf Stapledon was born in 1886, and he definitely was a Missionary.

Quote:Gen Z 2004-2024
Generation Alpha 2025-2044

Given that the pop pundits define Generation Alpha as born between 2010 and 2024, I suspect people born in 2004-2009 will start calling themselves Alpha as well (first generation to be born in the new century), while our favourite romantic rebels or neo-Missionaries could be Beta. Unless they reject this name, since beta brain waves stand for everything mundane. Theta waves are about all things "awakening-related": dreaming, intense emotions, even hypnosis. Generation Theta, what a nice name! I wish I could call myself that.

Those who remain interested in a genuine understanding of generations, will still adhere to the original dates similar to those of S&H, and not make the absurd definition of Generation Alpha as born between 2010 and 2024. These cohorts will be adaptives, not prophets, whatever Pew calls them. Generation Theta would be a fine prophet name, but it also disrupts the alphabetical scheme, and as you say Generation Beta will not fly for a prophet group.
--  Generation Beta sounds like an adaptive group


RE: 1995 - Bill the Piper - 02-24-2019

(02-23-2019, 08:45 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Those who remain interested in a genuine understanding of generations, will still adhere to the original dates similar to those of S&H

no doubt about that!

Quote:and not make the absurd definition of Generation Alpha as born between 2010 and 2024. These cohorts will be adaptives, not prophets, whatever Pew calls them. Generation Theta would be a fine prophet name, but it also disrupts the alphabetical scheme, and as you say Generation Beta will not fly for a prophet group.

Names are names, and they sometimes stick even if they are not appropriate. Generation Alpha might not stick for an adaptive group, since alpha in current pop usage stands for hyper-masculinity, and adaptive generations are not like that. It could fit neo-Millennials better!

I've seen the term "Plurals" used for the latest adaptives, it might be appropriate and gain currency someday.


RE: 1995 - Hintergrund - 03-01-2019

(02-23-2019, 08:45 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: and as you say Generation Beta will not fly for a prophet group.

I agree. They tend to be to full of themselves.


RE: 1995 - Bill the Piper - 03-02-2019

(03-01-2019, 08:04 PM)Hintergrund Wrote:
(02-23-2019, 08:45 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: and as you say Generation Beta will not fly for a prophet group.

I agree. They tend to be to full of themselves.

Do you mean all Prophetic generations? In what ways were Missionaries full of themselves?


RE: 1995 - David Horn - 03-02-2019

(03-02-2019, 09:43 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote:
(03-01-2019, 08:04 PM)Hintergrund Wrote:
(02-23-2019, 08:45 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: and as you say Generation Beta will not fly for a prophet group.

I agree. They tend to be to full of themselves.

Do you mean all Prophetic generations? In what ways were Missionaries full of themselves?

Excellent point, and one that supports the dual-rhythm concept perfectly.


RE: 1995 - Hintergrund - 03-06-2019

(03-02-2019, 09:43 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote:
(03-01-2019, 08:04 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: I agree. They tend to be to full of themselves.

Do you mean all Prophetic generations? In what ways were Missionaries full of themselves?

These were the same people who "welcomed" WW1 veterans with "vice squads".

Do you know what "Spandau ballet" means? That's how the soldiers called it if some soldier was caught in barbed wire (there was a lot around) and twitched when some German MG of the Spandau brand shot at him. Witness that, and you'll know what real trauma is.

But Missionaries didn't know, wouldn't have listened anyway, only knew and cared if the returning doughboys cussed and drank and looked at erotic postcards.