(01-25-2017, 07:07 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 03:45 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 12:35 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... Trump would be more politically immune than the previous presidents (Clinton, Bush II and Obama) who proceeded him. Civil War over what? A woman's right to choose or a transgenders right to choose his/her bathroom. When the crap hits the fan, I see an American flag with a few less stars or an America flag with the same amount of stars with new states with new names and that's about it. It's funny, I listen to Obama speak about America, it's resilience, it's heroism and the greatness that it represents as if he was speaking about us from a distance. I think to myself, yeah, we are a pretty good, we are pretty brave, we unite and stick together through serious stuff pretty well and you should be proud of us. Its to bad that you were taught to hate us so much by your mother and all her liberal friends and  associates and all the liberals surrounding you later on.

Unfortunately, your America is the vastly poorer half.  If it comes down a schism, don't count on doing all that well.

You assume that it is. I'm politically associated with largely middle income and above.

(01-26-2017, 06:02 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 04:30 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You view him as a conman and a crook. Correct me if I'm wrong. I view you him as a pretty good businessman and a decent person.

Many of Trump's vendors have had to sue him to get paid, and most got stiffed for some or all they were owed.  Just saying.

(01-26-2017, 11:19 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:

Quote:Ambassador Stevens being killed in a fire that results from a benign-looking protest (it was about a horrid movie that did more to offend than entertain or educate) was a tragedy. 

There were no protests outside the consulate that day.

Fake News strikes again! 

(01-26-2017, 09:52 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(01-26-2017, 11:19 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:

Quote:Ambassador Stevens being killed in a fire that results from a benign-looking protest (it was about a horrid movie that did more to offend than entertain or educate) was a tragedy. 

There were no protests outside the consulate that day.

Fake News strikes again! 

Apparently Clinton's propaganda - or, to be fair, possibly Obama propaganda since it's not clear where Susan Rice got her marching orders - stuck with the blue pill folks.  It turned out later that the movie didn't even have anything to do with the protests that did happen in Egypt, one country away.

(01-26-2017, 09:36 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(01-26-2017, 06:13 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Source: https://justicedemocrats.com

platform Wrote:It’s time to face the facts: the Democratic Party is broken and the corporate, establishment wing of the party is responsible. Republicans now hold most state legislatures, most governorships, the House of Representatives, the Senate, and the presidency. So in 2018, hundreds of Justice Democrats will run a unified campaign to replace every corporate-backed member of Congress and rebuild the party from scratch. This is our plan.
Pass a constitutional amendment to put an end to Washington corruption and bring about election reform. Super PACs should be banned, private donations to politicians and campaigns should be banned, and a clean public financing system should be implemented to end the takeover of our government by corporations and billionaires. Americans deserve free and fair elections – free from the corruption of big money donors. The Supreme Court has effectively legalized bribery. It’s time for an Article 5 convention to take our democracy back from the brink of oligarchy. Prior to passing this amendment, all members of the Justice Party should reject billionaire and corporate donations when running for office to show the American people we don’t just talk the talk, we walk the walk. Ranked choice voting should also be implemented to make smaller parties a viable option. All provisions of the voting rights act should be reinstated, and gerrymandering for partisan gain should be banned.
Re-regulate Wall Street and hold white-collar criminals accountable. Despite engaging in systemic fraud and causing a subprime mortgage meltdown and the great recession, you can count the people from Wall Street who are in prison for their crimes on one hand. It’s time to prosecute the criminals, bring back Glass-Steagall, and re-regulate Wall Street to prevent another crash. Prison is not just for the poor and the middle class anymore. We will have cops on Wall Street, not just Main Street.

Quote:It’s time for an Article 5 convention to take our Democracy back from the brink of Oligarchy.

End billionaire and corporate tax dodging, fix the system to benefit middle-class and poor people. Corporations dodge $450 billion a year in taxes by using offshore tax havens. We should end this injustice, as well as chain the capital gains tax to the income tax, increase the estate tax, and implement the Buffet rule so that no millionaire CEO pays less in taxes than his or her secretary. It’s time for a tax system that benefits the middle-class and the poor, and makes the top 1% and multinational corporations pay their fair share.
Defend free speech and expression. We support the right to express unpopular opinions without fear of censorship. We support free speech on college campuses. The marketplace of ideas should be embraced. A vibrant debate is healthy for democracy, and we should cherish our first amendment. We also support net neutrality for a free and open internet.
Oppose bigotry. We must speak out against racism, sexism, xenophobia, and all forms of bigotry. Non-discrimination protections that currently apply to race, religion, and gender should be expanded to include the LGBTQ community and the atheist community. Making all Americans equal is not asking for special privileges, it’s asking for the rule of law – justice and equality for all as outlined in the United States Constitution.
Make the minimum wage a living wage and tie it to inflation. This is about justice and basic human decency. If you work hard and you work full time you shouldn’t live in poverty.
Ensure universal healthcare as a right. The United States should catch up to every other modern nation and implement a single-payer, medicare-for-all system. There’s no reason we can’t be #1 in the world instead of #37. It’s time to end the destruction of American healthcare by rapacious, price gouging, for-profit, private health insurance middlemen.
Ensure universal education as a right. Educating the citizenry of a nation pays dividends in the long run, with the economy getting back much more than is initially put in. Crushing student debt for higher education would no longer burden young men and women trying to improve their lives through hard work. We should strive to have the best education system in the world.

Quote:In 2018, hundreds of Justice Democrats are going to run a unified campaign to replace every corporate-backed member of Congress

End unnecessary wars and nation building. The United States maintains 800 military bases worldwide at a cost of $100 billion a year, this is money that can be spent at home creating jobs, rebuilding infrastructure, and investing in the future of the people. The disastrous war in Iraq cost trillions, the war in Afghanistan is 15 years in with no end in sight, and we’re currently bombing 7 different countries. We spend more on our military than the next 8 countries combined. Despite countless lives lost and destroyed, terrorism has only gotten worse. It’s time to end the wars and the perverse monetary-incentive structure that makes politicians flippant about sending young men and women to die. Unilateral U.S. military force should only be used as a last resort to defend the nation. The current budget could be cut drastically if we used our department of defense for what it was intended – defending us, instead of waging interventionist wars.
End the failed war on drugs. The goal is legalization, taxation, and regulation. Prohibition only makes drug cartels more powerful, increases crime, and makes drugs more dangerous due to lack of enforced safety standards. What you put in your body is your own business, and your right. A free society should allow individuals to make their own choices about their bodies. While most users are recreational and moderate, rehabilitation and treatment should be available for people struggling with addiction. Additionally, those serving time for non-violent drug offenses should be pardoned.
Create the new new deal. Our infrastructure gets a grade of D from the Society of Civil Engineers. The government should invest billions in rebuilding our crumbling roads, bridges, schools, levees, airports etc. There’s no reason why we can’t have the world’s #1 infrastructure.
Create the renewable energy revolution. Scientists are sounding the alarm on climate change. In order to avoid the worst case scenario and a dystopian future we need a massive green revolution. It’s time to drastically and immediately move away from fossil fuels and develop the technologies of the future. This will be a giant boon to both the private and public sector, as well as a necessary response to a global crisis. We can and we must be #1 in sustainable energy production in the world.
Block the TPP and all outsourcing deals that will further damage the middle-class. As a result of NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China and the WTO, Americans have lost millions of decent paying jobs. It’s time to end the race to the bottom and renegotiate these rigged deals that only benefit elites. We should not sacrifice our sovereignty, the only people who are allowed to make laws for the United States should be the American people, not multinational corporations.
End Constitutional overreaches. Ban the NSA from bulk data-collection and warrantless spying. Shut down Guantanamo Bay and all extrajudicial prisons. Prosecute torturers and those who violated the Geneva Conventions, Nuremberg Tribunal, International law and US law. Return habeas corpus and due process. Pardon whistleblowers like Edward Snowden. We shouldn’t be leading from behind on human rights, we must be the home of liberty. We should practice the values we preach.

Quote:It’s time to end the destruction of American healthcare by rapacious, price gouging, for-profit, private health insurance middlemen.

Ban arming human rights violators. We recently gave Saudi Arabia billions in weapons and watched the civilian death toll in their vicious bombing campaign in Yemen tick up. We continue sending Egypt arms as they violently crack down on peaceful protesters. Israel received $38 billion in aid and promptly announced new settlements. The first step to peace is not enabling nations who regularly violate international law. We must be bold enough to stand up to human rights violators who aren’t just our enemies, but our allies. We don’t weaken our allies by holding them accountable, we strengthen them.
Enact common-sense gun regulation. 92% of Americans want expanded background checks, 54% want a ban on assault weapons, and 54% want a ban on high capacity magazines. This should be implemented along with a federal gun buyback program to cut down on the 300+ million firearms in circulation. Over 30,000 Americans die every year from gun violence, including over 10,000 homicides. The time to act is now to address this public health crisis.
Ensure paid vacation time, sick time, maternity leave, childcare. The United States is one of just three countries in the world that doesn’t offer paid maternity leave, the others being Oman and Papua New Guinea. We are the only industrialized nation that doesn’t offer paid vacation time. This should be changed immediately.
Abolish the death penalty. Humans are fallible, we’ll never get the right answer 100% of the time. 4% of the people on death row are not guilty of a crime and have been wrongly convicted. A system that puts innocent people to death is indefensible and should be reformed. We want justice for the American people but killing innocent people on death row is the exact opposite.
Defend and protect women’s rights. We support the Paycheck Fairness Act. We oppose Republican cuts to Planned Parenthood and women’s health clinics all across the country. In 2016 alone, 60 TRAP laws targeting abortion were passed in 19 states. We will vigorously oppose all efforts to dismantle reproductive rights.
Enact police reform. We believe in the core idea of policing – to serve and protect the community. Police are a vital part of American society and that is why it’s so important to reform the system to make it serve all Americans. For-profit policing should be abolished, police training should be retooled to emphasize deescalation tactics, and body cameras should be mandatory on all officers. Furthermore, community oversight boards should be created and broken windows policing should be eliminated. Stop & frisk – which disproportionately targets blacks and latinos 87% of the time – has a 97% failure rate. On top of being discriminatory and ineffective, it’s also unconstitutional and should be ended. Special prosecutors must also be appointed to hold police accountable.

---

These ideas represent what the Democratic Party was supposed to represent all along. Opinion polls in the United States demonstrate that these policy positions are overwhelmingly popular. Indeed, throughout the industrialized world these ideas are considered moderate.
This is a movement about freedom and justice. And it’s a movement by and for working people. If the Democrats refuse to embrace this platform, they’ll continue to lose, either to Republicans or to us. The future of the Democratic party is the Justice wing, not the establishment wing.

Not bad.  Just a small quibble about the gunz obsession which is better left to the several states.



https://justicedemocrats.com/nominate/   <-  Eric and Marypoza here y'all go.  I found y'alls calling.

If they really want to win over the heartland, they absolutely must drop, in addition to the Anti 2A bullshit:

=================================

Create the renewable energy revolution. Scientists are sounding the alarm on climate change. In order to avoid the worst case scenario and a dystopian future we need a massive green revolution. It’s time to drastically and immediately move away from fossil fuels and develop the technologies of the future. This will be a giant boon to both the private and public sector, as well as a necessary response to a global crisis. We can and we must be #1 in sustainable energy production in the world.

[ Don't fear the reactor and embrace cleaner newer fossil fuel technologies. Of course, do the green stuff in parallel but no more boondoggles ]

Abolish the death penalty. Humans are fallible, we’ll never get the right answer 100% of the time. 4% of the people on death row are not guilty of a crime and have been wrongly convicted. A system that puts innocent people to death is indefensible and should be reformed. We want justice for the American people but killing innocent people on death row is the exact opposite.

[ I get that some states are making bad mistakes. But there are pro-death-penalty majorities in certain states - let the states decide while addressing the flawed conviction and sentencing problems with the force of the DoJ ]

=============================================

And finally, while it is tempting to completely reject all aspects of supposed neocon foreign policy / the military industrial complex / world police / etc don't swing to the complete other extreme because guess what? That invites world war.

Quote:They should welcome a wide-open review of the entire problem, because I doubt it has a simple cause.  Yes, the gangs ... I know that.  But they also have incredibly easy access to guns, because Illinois is really gun friendly.  Then again, the place has lost a lot of good jobs for the blue collar class, and those jobs are gone for good. 

In any case, it would be the kind of sociological study that might open eyes.

Quote:The deaths are mostly gang violence, where do you think the gangs make their money from? IIRC a year ago there was a crackdown on gang leaders in Chicago which disrupted the balance of power among the gangs there and that is why the violence spiked.

(01-26-2017, 09:36 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(01-26-2017, 06:13 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Source: https://justicedemocrats.com

platform Wrote:It’s time to face the facts: the Democratic Party is broken and the corporate, establishment wing of the party is responsible. Republicans now hold most state legislatures, most governorships, the House of Representatives, the Senate, and the presidency. So in 2018, hundreds of Justice Democrats will run a unified campaign to replace every corporate-backed member of Congress and rebuild the party from scratch. This is our plan.
Pass a constitutional amendment to put an end to Washington corruption and bring about election reform. Super PACs should be banned, private donations to politicians and campaigns should be banned, and a clean public financing system should be implemented to end the takeover of our government by corporations and billionaires. Americans deserve free and fair elections – free from the corruption of big money donors. The Supreme Court has effectively legalized bribery. It’s time for an Article 5 convention to take our democracy back from the brink of oligarchy. Prior to passing this amendment, all members of the Justice Party should reject billionaire and corporate donations when running for office to show the American people we don’t just talk the talk, we walk the walk. Ranked choice voting should also be implemented to make smaller parties a viable option. All provisions of the voting rights act should be reinstated, and gerrymandering for partisan gain should be banned.
Re-regulate Wall Street and hold white-collar criminals accountable. Despite engaging in systemic fraud and causing a subprime mortgage meltdown and the great recession, you can count the people from Wall Street who are in prison for their crimes on one hand. It’s time to prosecute the criminals, bring back Glass-Steagall, and re-regulate Wall Street to prevent another crash. Prison is not just for the poor and the middle class anymore. We will have cops on Wall Street, not just Main Street.

Quote:It’s time for an Article 5 convention to take our Democracy back from the brink of Oligarchy.

End billionaire and corporate tax dodging, fix the system to benefit middle-class and poor people. Corporations dodge $450 billion a year in taxes by using offshore tax havens. We should end this injustice, as well as chain the capital gains tax to the income tax, increase the estate tax, and implement the Buffet rule so that no millionaire CEO pays less in taxes than his or her secretary. It’s time for a tax system that benefits the middle-class and the poor, and makes the top 1% and multinational corporations pay their fair share.
Defend free speech and expression. We support the right to express unpopular opinions without fear of censorship. We support free speech on college campuses. The marketplace of ideas should be embraced. A vibrant debate is healthy for democracy, and we should cherish our first amendment. We also support net neutrality for a free and open internet.
Oppose bigotry. We must speak out against racism, sexism, xenophobia, and all forms of bigotry. Non-discrimination protections that currently apply to race, religion, and gender should be expanded to include the LGBTQ community and the atheist community. Making all Americans equal is not asking for special privileges, it’s asking for the rule of law – justice and equality for all as outlined in the United States Constitution.
Make the minimum wage a living wage and tie it to inflation. This is about justice and basic human decency. If you work hard and you work full time you shouldn’t live in poverty.
Ensure universal healthcare as a right. The United States should catch up to every other modern nation and implement a single-payer, medicare-for-all system. There’s no reason we can’t be #1 in the world instead of #37. It’s time to end the destruction of American healthcare by rapacious, price gouging, for-profit, private health insurance middlemen.
Ensure universal education as a right. Educating the citizenry of a nation pays dividends in the long run, with the economy getting back much more than is initially put in. Crushing student debt for higher education would no longer burden young men and women trying to improve their lives through hard work. We should strive to have the best education system in the world.

Quote:In 2018, hundreds of Justice Democrats are going to run a unified campaign to replace every corporate-backed member of Congress

End unnecessary wars and nation building. The United States maintains 800 military bases worldwide at a cost of $100 billion a year, this is money that can be spent at home creating jobs, rebuilding infrastructure, and investing in the future of the people. The disastrous war in Iraq cost trillions, the war in Afghanistan is 15 years in with no end in sight, and we’re currently bombing 7 different countries. We spend more on our military than the next 8 countries combined. Despite countless lives lost and destroyed, terrorism has only gotten worse. It’s time to end the wars and the perverse monetary-incentive structure that makes politicians flippant about sending young men and women to die. Unilateral U.S. military force should only be used as a last resort to defend the nation. The current budget could be cut drastically if we used our department of defense for what it was intended – defending us, instead of waging interventionist wars.
End the failed war on drugs. The goal is legalization, taxation, and regulation. Prohibition only makes drug cartels more powerful, increases crime, and makes drugs more dangerous due to lack of enforced safety standards. What you put in your body is your own business, and your right. A free society should allow individuals to make their own choices about their bodies. While most users are recreational and moderate, rehabilitation and treatment should be available for people struggling with addiction. Additionally, those serving time for non-violent drug offenses should be pardoned.
Create the new new deal. Our infrastructure gets a grade of D from the Society of Civil Engineers. The government should invest billions in rebuilding our crumbling roads, bridges, schools, levees, airports etc. There’s no reason why we can’t have the world’s #1 infrastructure.
Create the renewable energy revolution. Scientists are sounding the alarm on climate change. In order to avoid the worst case scenario and a dystopian future we need a massive green revolution. It’s time to drastically and immediately move away from fossil fuels and develop the technologies of the future. This will be a giant boon to both the private and public sector, as well as a necessary response to a global crisis. We can and we must be #1 in sustainable energy production in the world.
Block the TPP and all outsourcing deals that will further damage the middle-class. As a result of NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China and the WTO, Americans have lost millions of decent paying jobs. It’s time to end the race to the bottom and renegotiate these rigged deals that only benefit elites. We should not sacrifice our sovereignty, the only people who are allowed to make laws for the United States should be the American people, not multinational corporations.
End Constitutional overreaches. Ban the NSA from bulk data-collection and warrantless spying. Shut down Guantanamo Bay and all extrajudicial prisons. Prosecute torturers and those who violated the Geneva Conventions, Nuremberg Tribunal, International law and US law. Return habeas corpus and due process. Pardon whistleblowers like Edward Snowden. We shouldn’t be leading from behind on human rights, we must be the home of liberty. We should practice the values we preach.

Quote:It’s time to end the destruction of American healthcare by rapacious, price gouging, for-profit, private health insurance middlemen.

Ban arming human rights violators. We recently gave Saudi Arabia billions in weapons and watched the civilian death toll in their vicious bombing campaign in Yemen tick up. We continue sending Egypt arms as they violently crack down on peaceful protesters. Israel received $38 billion in aid and promptly announced new settlements. The first step to peace is not enabling nations who regularly violate international law. We must be bold enough to stand up to human rights violators who aren’t just our enemies, but our allies. We don’t weaken our allies by holding them accountable, we strengthen them.
Enact common-sense gun regulation. 92% of Americans want expanded background checks, 54% want a ban on assault weapons, and 54% want a ban on high capacity magazines. This should be implemented along with a federal gun buyback program to cut down on the 300+ million firearms in circulation. Over 30,000 Americans die every year from gun violence, including over 10,000 homicides. The time to act is now to address this public health crisis.
Ensure paid vacation time, sick time, maternity leave, childcare. The United States is one of just three countries in the world that doesn’t offer paid maternity leave, the others being Oman and Papua New Guinea. We are the only industrialized nation that doesn’t offer paid vacation time. This should be changed immediately.
Abolish the death penalty. Humans are fallible, we’ll never get the right answer 100% of the time. 4% of the people on death row are not guilty of a crime and have been wrongly convicted. A system that puts innocent people to death is indefensible and should be reformed. We want justice for the American people but killing innocent people on death row is the exact opposite.
Defend and protect women’s rights. We support the Paycheck Fairness Act. We oppose Republican cuts to Planned Parenthood and women’s health clinics all across the country. In 2016 alone, 60 TRAP laws targeting abortion were passed in 19 states. We will vigorously oppose all efforts to dismantle reproductive rights.
Enact police reform. We believe in the core idea of policing – to serve and protect the community. Police are a vital part of American society and that is why it’s so important to reform the system to make it serve all Americans. For-profit policing should be abolished, police training should be retooled to emphasize deescalation tactics, and body cameras should be mandatory on all officers. Furthermore, community oversight boards should be created and broken windows policing should be eliminated. Stop & frisk – which disproportionately targets blacks and latinos 87% of the time – has a 97% failure rate. On top of being discriminatory and ineffective, it’s also unconstitutional and should be ended. Special prosecutors must also be appointed to hold police accountable.

---

These ideas represent what the Democratic Party was supposed to represent all along. Opinion polls in the United States demonstrate that these policy positions are overwhelmingly popular. Indeed, throughout the industrialized world these ideas are considered moderate.
This is a movement about freedom and justice. And it’s a movement by and for working people. If the Democrats refuse to embrace this platform, they’ll continue to lose, either to Republicans or to us. The future of the Democratic party is the Justice wing, not the establishment wing.

<snip vid>


Not bad.  Just a small quibble about the gunz obsession which is better left to the several states.



https://justicedemocrats.com/nominate/   <-  Eric and Marypoza here y'all go.  I found y'alls calling.

If they really want to win over the heartland, they absolutely must drop, in addition to the Anti 2A bullshit:

=================================

Create the renewable energy revolution. Scientists are sounding the alarm on climate change. In order to avoid the worst case scenario and a dystopian future we need a massive green revolution. It’s time to drastically and immediately move away from fossil fuels and develop the technologies of the future. This will be a giant boon to both the private and public sector, as well as a necessary response to a global crisis. We can and we must be #1 in sustainable energy production in the world.

[ Don't fear the reactor and embrace cleaner newer fossil fuel technologies. Of course, do the green stuff in parallel but no more boondoggles ]

Abolish the death penalty. Humans are fallible, we’ll never get the right answer 100% of the time. 4% of the people on death row are not guilty of a crime and have been wrongly convicted. A system that puts innocent people to death is indefensible and should be reformed. We want justice for the American people but killing innocent people on death row is the exact opposite.

[ I get that some states are making bad mistakes. But there are pro-death-penalty majorities in certain states - let the states decide while addressing the flawed conviction and sentencing problems with the force of the DoJ ]

=============================================

And finally, while it is tempting to completely reject all aspects of supposed neocon foreign policy / the military industrial complex / world police / etc don't swing to the complete other extreme because guess what? That invites world war.

(01-26-2017, 09:52 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(01-26-2017, 11:19 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:

Quote:Ambassador Stevens being killed in a fire that results from a benign-looking protest (it was about a horrid movie that did more to offend than entertain or educate) was a tragedy. 

There were no protests outside the consulate that day.

Fake News strikes again! 

Apparently Clinton's propaganda - or, to be fair, possibly Obama propaganda since it's not clear where Susan Rice got her marching orders - stuck with the blue pill folks.  It turned out later that the movie didn't even have anything to do with the protests that did happen in Egypt, one country away.

(01-26-2017, 06:13 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Not bad.  Just a small quibble about the gunz obsession which is better left to the several states.


https://justicedemocrats.com/nominate/   <-  Eric and Marypoza here y'all go.  I found y'alls calling.

(01-26-2017, 08:55 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 07:07 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 03:45 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 12:35 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... Trump would be more politically immune than the previous presidents (Clinton, Bush II and Obama) who proceeded him. Civil War over what? A woman's right to choose or a transgenders right to choose his/her bathroom. When the crap hits the fan, I see an American flag with a few less stars or an America flag with the same amount of stars with new states with new names and that's about it. It's funny, I listen to Obama speak about America, it's resilience, it's heroism and the greatness that it represents as if he was speaking about us from a distance. I think to myself, yeah, we are a pretty good, we are pretty brave, we unite and stick together through serious stuff pretty well and you should be proud of us. Its to bad that you were taught to hate us so much by your mother and all her liberal friends and  associates and all the liberals surrounding you later on.

Unfortunately, your America is the vastly poorer half.  If it comes down a schism, don't count on doing all that well.

You assume that it is. I'm politically associated with largely middle income and above.

Minnesota is Blue America.  Maybe not azure blue, but blue enough.  If you plan on leaving the US, then plan on moving.  Red America is out there, but it isn't the prosperous part .. except for the oil patch.  That's still doing well -- for now at least.  Drive over to Fargo or Bismark.

(01-26-2017, 11:25 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: There's not much use in debating gunz now. There's no chance for any legislation now for at least 4 years. It will come eventually, I think. It's a ridiculous American obsession (having guns, that is!). Even if the 2A isn't repealed, common sense gun control is obviously needed, and the people favor it; and tho it's up to the states now, that will not be enough, since shooters and gangs can go to other states and buy them. And only blue states have the courage and sense to pass these laws, so there's plenty of states for nuts to choose from if they want to go there and buy some. But, state laws do help; it's better than nuthin'

(01-26-2017, 01:56 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-26-2017, 01:28 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 11:58 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 07:07 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-25-2017, 03:45 PM)David Horn Wrote: Unfortunately, your America is the vastly poorer half.  If it comes down a schism, don't count on doing all that well.

You assume that it is. I'm politically associated with largely middle income and above.

You and Warren make the same mistake. You judge the condition and policies of the entire country based on your own personal situation.

Are you saying that you're weren't doing that? Do you know why you're failing at preaching blue gospel and receiving support for government charity programs and failing to convince others of your sincerity? You can't hide your self centered behavior, your super ego or your obvious disdain for others who disagree with you. How far do we need to go? My advice, place us all on you're ignore list and post liberal stuff. Have you noticed anything different starting to happen with this forum? As I said, I'm down to one.

Of course I'm not doing that; neither are most liberals. They understand that what is best for the whole is best for the individual. You guys reverse that: what's good for you personally is good for the whole, whether there's any link between your personal fortunes and political policies or not. When you have no basis for disagreeing with me, resorting to insults against me instead does not win your argument.

You fail again to understand social insurance, and you call it charity.

(01-26-2017, 10:24 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Chicago, Baltimore, Ferguson... these places don't have unique drug laws vis New York, or LA, or Boston, or Dubuque.  Stop handwaving away things you don't like just because your mind mentally tags issues and positions as "red" or "blue" and files them away accordingly.

(01-27-2017, 12:01 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Donald Trump Is Still Using His Unsecured Personal Cell Phone
By Eric Levitz
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/01/donald-trump-is-still-using-his-unsecured-android-phone.html

Donald Trump won the White House by, among other things, relentlessly attacking his opponent for her reckless use of private communications devices while serving in public office. By campaign’s end, the one thing Americans knew about Hillary Clinton, beyond all else, was that she had done some bad things with her emails.


Kenton @realKentron
This is how we got here - the media completely failed to articulate what was at stake. And the people are not happy. http://www.gallup.com/poll/195596/email-dominates-americans-heard-clinton.aspx …

But when Trump threatened to send federal troops to occupy Chicago Tuesday night, many Twitter users noticed something alarming.


Steve Kopack ✔ @SteveKopack
Where did Trump's last two tweets come from? Android. So, is he still posting from his personal phone?
6:29 PM - 24 Jan 2017

Could it be that the leader of the free world was dispensing 140-character policy responses to whatever he just saw on Fox News — from an unsecured device?!

On Wednesday, the New York Times reported that this was, in fact, the case:

Mr. Trump’s wife, Melania, went back to New York on Sunday night with their 10-year-old son, Barron, and so Mr. Trump has the television — and his old, unsecured Android phone, to the protests of some of his aides — to keep him company.

Single-issue “IT-management voters” must be inconsolable.

(01-27-2017, 12:50 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(01-26-2017, 10:24 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Chicago, Baltimore, Ferguson... these places don't have unique drug laws vis New York, or LA, or Boston, or Dubuque.  Stop handwaving away things you don't like just because your mind mentally tags issues and positions as "red" or "blue" and files them away accordingly.

So what did New York, LA, and Boston have that Chicago and Baltimore didn't?  It's hard to believe that Bratton is single handedly responsible for decades of falling national murder rates, but that's the difference that jumps out to me.