(12-05-2016, 04:31 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 01:43 PM)radind Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 01:12 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 08:08 AM)radind Wrote:

(12-04-2016, 10:19 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Don't you know who he is appointing?

I have seen the list so far. Like the generals. Waiting to see who is Secretary of State. 
This is a role reversal as I was not happy with the 8 years of Obama policy. Hoping to see Trump eliminate many regulations.

It will all turn out as "Suffer for my greed, you peons!" 

For the rich, "Do as thou wilt".

We can compare notes  next summer.
-Need time for some data  and not just speculation.

We will have plenty of data -- in legislation. We are going to see plenty of protests, and let us hope that the opposition goes no further than protests and strikes.

The big thing to watch for is for any new federal law enforcement agency that starts taking on a role as a secret police -- maybe a domestic CIA. Others? Politicized militias that support the new Establishment or politicized youth leagues "Trump Youth". We have an extremist Presidency that has already pushed racial and religious bigotry.

Trump offers me nothing but fear and loathing.

(12-05-2016, 10:46 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 10:05 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: I have never seen a demagogue turn into a desirable political figure. All demagogues that I have ever read of have gone bad. I expect no better with Donald Trump than with a left-wing demagogue like the late Hugo Chavez.

But hold me to what I say this summer. Miracles have happened. Sometimes those who adopt an extremist agenda decide after seeing it begin to fail begin to moderate. Even Lenin turned away from his extreme War Communism after he started to recognize economic failure.

Of course I have very low expectations of Donald Trump. having lost almost all resources that could get me a new start in something other than a minimum-wage job, and disliking the community in which I am likely stranded for life, I could be in a situation in which death solves all my problems. Just get me some cheap grace for not taking my blood pressure pills. Poverty in a hick town in the Midwest after taking care of two parents who died of degenerative diseases isn't Hell, but it is purgatory.

I have nothing good to say about a politician who used racial and religious bigotry as a campaign appeal, who bragged about acts that would get a poor black man a long prison term if he had done such to a white woman who didn't consent to it, who called for violence against people who heckled him, maintained the canard that the current President was not born in the United States long after it was settled, and egged people on with "Jail Hillary!"  

Donald Trump did the trash talk. Gentlemen do not do trash talk. I expect  any leader to be at least as gentlemanly as George W. Bush.

None of it apparently mattered to people hell bent on sticking it to the system.

Irony - many conservatives have bemoaned the coarsening of society. And, well,  I'll be damned, His Royal Coarseness will get sworn in a few weeks from now.

(12-05-2016, 06:15 PM)taramarie Wrote: "We need those regulations. Without them the people and the planet suffer for the sake of elites' profits."

I actually agree with Eric on this.

(12-06-2016, 04:04 AM)Galen Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 06:15 PM)taramarie Wrote: "We need those regulations. Without them the people and the planet suffer for the sake of elites' profits."

I actually agree with Eric on this.

You don't really understand the magnitude of the problem I suggest that you find out the size of the regulatory burden in the US.  If you are unfortunate enough to be in California its much worse.  This is the result of an unelected bureaucracy that is out of control.

(12-06-2016, 10:32 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(12-06-2016, 04:04 AM)Galen Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 06:15 PM)taramarie Wrote: "We need those regulations. Without them the people and the planet suffer for the sake of elites' profits."

I actually agree with Eric on this.

You don't really understand the magnitude of the problem I suggest that you find out the size of the regulatory burden in the US.  If you are unfortunate enough to be in California its much worse.  This is the result of an unelected bureaucracy that is out of control.

The regulatory burden exists because the free market does nothing to prevent such deeds as toxic dumping, adulteration of foodstuffs, dishonesty in disclosure of financial statements, inducing workers to do unpaid overtime off the clock, asking female employees from offering themselves as fringe benefits to male bosses... Regulation exists because human nature is flawed, and because abuses in the past have obliged government responsible to the People to control those who wield economic power.

If Humanity were invariably good then we would need no regulation -- or police, courts of law, or prisons.

(12-06-2016, 10:53 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(12-06-2016, 10:32 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(12-06-2016, 04:04 AM)Galen Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 06:15 PM)taramarie Wrote: "We need those regulations. Without them the people and the planet suffer for the sake of elites' profits."

I actually agree with Eric on this.

You don't really understand the magnitude of the problem I suggest that you find out the size of the regulatory burden in the US.  If you are unfortunate enough to be in California its much worse.  This is the result of an unelected bureaucracy that is out of control.

The regulatory burden exists because the free market does nothing to prevent such deeds as toxic dumping, adulteration of foodstuffs, dishonesty in disclosure of financial statements, inducing workers to do unpaid overtime off the clock, asking female employees from offering themselves as fringe benefits to male bosses... Regulation exists because human nature is flawed, and because abuses in the past have obliged government responsible to the People to control those who wield economic power.

If Humanity were invariably good then we would need no regulation -- or police, courts of law, or prisons.

I don't think anyone is saying in this thread we should get rid of regulations entirely.  It's just that government regulations tend to require 10x to 100x the paperwork that's necessary actually to provide the required information.

(12-06-2016, 04:04 AM)Galen Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 06:15 PM)taramarie Wrote: "We need those regulations. Without them the people and the planet suffer for the sake of elites' profits."

I actually agree with Eric on this.

You don't really understand the magnitude of the problem I suggest that you find out the size of the regulatory burden in the US.  If you are unfortunate enough to be in California its much worse.  This is the result of an unelected bureaucracy that is out of control.

(12-05-2016, 03:31 PM)Galen Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 01:43 PM)radind Wrote: We can compare notes  next summer.
-Need time for some data  and not just speculation.

Pretty much my view on Trump.  See what he does and then praise or criticize as needed.

(12-05-2016, 03:56 PM)Galen Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 03:49 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: ... We need those regulations...

No we don't.

(12-06-2016, 04:04 AM)Galen Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 06:15 PM)taramarie Wrote: "We need those regulations. Without them the people and the planet suffer for the sake of elites' profits."

I actually agree with Eric on this.

You don't really understand the magnitude of the problem I suggest that you find out the size of the regulatory burden in the US.  If you are unfortunate enough to be in California its much worse.  This is the result of an unelected bureaucracy that is out of control.

(12-06-2016, 01:30 PM)playwrite Wrote:

(12-06-2016, 04:04 AM)Galen Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 06:15 PM)taramarie Wrote: "We need those regulations. Without them the people and the planet suffer for the sake of elites' profits."

I actually agree with Eric on this.

You don't really understand the magnitude of the problem I suggest that you find out the size of the regulatory burden in the US.  If you are unfortunate enough to be in California its much worse.  This is the result of an unelected bureaucracy that is out of control.

Ah, having the POTUS deciding which individual companies (Carrier) will get a tax cut and which will not (Trane, American Standard, Rheem Lennox, etc. ) is the utmost in regulating.  Remember, "government shouldn't decide the winners and losers; that's the job of the markets!"

I always thought Libertarians/Austrians could be bought off, I just didn't realize how cheap.  It's down to around 800 Carrier jobs saved which is lost in the noise of weekly employment gains/loses.  

You should at least consider removing that laissez faire quote from your signature line - such clear hypocrisy has to be just a tad embarrassing, no?

(12-06-2016, 02:34 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(12-06-2016, 10:32 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(12-06-2016, 04:04 AM)Galen Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 06:15 PM)taramarie Wrote: "We need those regulations. Without them the people and the planet suffer for the sake of elites' profits."

I actually agree with Eric on this.

You don't really understand the magnitude of the problem I suggest that you find out the size of the regulatory burden in the US.  If you are unfortunate enough to be in California its much worse.  This is the result of an unelected bureaucracy that is out of control.

The regulatory burden exists because the free market does nothing to prevent such deeds as toxic dumping, adulteration of foodstuffs, dishonesty in disclosure of financial statements, inducing workers to do unpaid overtime off the clock, asking female employees from offering themselves as fringe benefits to male bosses... Regulation exists because human nature is flawed, and because abuses in the past have obliged government responsible to the People to control those who wield economic power.

If Humanity were invariably good then we would need no regulation -- or police, courts of law, or prisons.

Bingo. That is why I support it. I care about the planet.

(12-06-2016, 01:30 PM)playwrite Wrote:

(12-06-2016, 04:04 AM)Galen Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 06:15 PM)taramarie Wrote: "We need those regulations. Without them the people and the planet suffer for the sake of elites' profits."

I actually agree with Eric on this.

You don't really understand the magnitude of the problem I suggest that you find out the size of the regulatory burden in the US.  If you are unfortunate enough to be in California its much worse.  This is the result of an unelected bureaucracy that is out of control.

Ah, having the POTUS deciding which individual companies (Carrier) will get a tax cut and which will not (Trane, American Standard, Rheem Lennox, etc. ) is the utmost in regulating.  Remember, "government shouldn't decide the winners and losers; that's the job of the markets!"

I always thought Libertarians/Austrians could be bought off, I just didn't realize how cheap.  It's down to around 800 Carrier jobs saved which is lost in the noise of weekly employment gains/loses.  

You should at least consider removing that laissez faire quote from your signature line - such clear hypocrisy has to be just a tad embarrassing, no?

(12-06-2016, 05:36 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 03:56 PM)Galen Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 03:49 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: ... We need those regulations...

No we don't.

Take just a minute and look at the map of the worst superfund sites, all the direct result of too little regulation. 



Note that none of them were or will be cleaned-up by the ones who did the polluting, or even at their expense.  After all, no one said no.

(12-07-2016, 08:07 AM)Odin Wrote:

(12-06-2016, 05:36 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 03:56 PM)Galen Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 03:49 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: ... We need those regulations...

No we don't.

Take just a minute and look at the map of the worst superfund sites, all the direct result of too little regulation. 



Note that none of them were or will be cleaned-up by the ones who did the polluting, or even at their expense.  After all, no one said no.

Jesus Christ, I never realized there were so many, or that I grew up just a few miles from 2 of them

Quote:High levels of trichloroethylene, dichloroethylene, and vinyl chloride (also known as volatile organic compounds or VOCs) as well as elevated levels of heavy metals and cyanide have been detected in private and groundwater monitoring wells in the area.  Polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) and metals such as cadmium have been found in sediment samples downstream of the old lagoons.  Lagoon sludge contains heavy metals, including cadmium, chromium, and lead.

(12-06-2016, 05:36 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 03:56 PM)Galen Wrote:

(12-05-2016, 03:49 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: ... We need those regulations...

No we don't.

Take just a minute and look at the map of the worst superfund sites, all the direct result of too little regulation. 



Note that none of them were or will be cleaned-up by the ones who did the polluting, or even at their expense.  After all, no one said no.