(02-25-2020, 01:20 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Getting to know Bernie!





At the end he defines what "democratic socialism" means to him: economic rights are human rights. e.g. a right to health care, fair taxes, education, a decent job, affordable housing, and a clean habitable environment.

(02-25-2020, 05:10 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I dissent from the idea that Sanders has lost FL because he mentioned the obvious truth that everyone knows, just as Sanders said. Socialist and communist countries can improve the lot of some peoples' lives. I don't know why the focus by pundits on these comments when Sanders also explicitly rejected in them the authoritarian and brutal actions of these dictators. The only people in Florida who would object to a complete picture of Castro's regime are the anti-Castro Cuban exiles, fewer in number every year, who are Republicans anyway. They are even strongly opposed to ending the embargo, and Trump is doing their bidding. So we'll see how "damaging" it is. Sanders is good at explaining himself and at debating. Tonight will be a good test.

Date: Tuesday, February 25
Time: 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. ET.
Watch on TV: The debate will air on CBS stations.
Live stream online: Stream on CBSN via the video player in this article or across a number of devices, including Roku, Apple TV, and Amazon Fire TV. You can also watch live on CBS All Access with a free trial. The debate will be live-streamed on Twitter, Facebook and YouTube.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/democratic-debate-south-carolina-tonight-time-channel-stream-online-cbsn/

(02-25-2020, 06:12 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-25-2020, 05:10 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I dissent from the idea that Sanders has lost FL because he mentioned the obvious truth that everyone knows, just as Sanders said. Socialist and communist countries can improve the lot of some peoples' lives. I don't know why the focus by pundits on these comments when Sanders also explicitly rejected in them the authoritarian and brutal actions of these dictators. The only people in Florida who would object to a complete picture of Castro's regime are the anti-Castro Cuban exiles, fewer in number every year, who are Republicans anyway. They are even strongly opposed to ending the embargo, and Trump is doing their bidding. So we'll see how "damaging" it is. Sanders is good at explaining himself and at debating. Tonight will be a good test.

Date: Tuesday, February 25
Time: 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. ET.
Watch on TV: The debate will air on CBS stations.
Live stream online: Stream on CBSN via the video player in this article or across a number of devices, including Roku, Apple TV, and Amazon Fire TV. You can also watch live on CBS All Access with a free trial. The debate will be live-streamed on Twitter, Facebook and YouTube.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/democratic-debate-south-carolina-tonight-time-channel-stream-online-cbsn/

Believe me, South Floridians know this cold.  Too many came from Cuba or Nicaragua or Venezuela, or their parents or grandparents did.  Hating Castro, and the other Communists from that era, is prevalent everywhere -- in all generations.  Add in the retirees, who love Trump anyway, and it's a done deal.

It was a stupid move.  Worse, there are hundreds of hours of public-access video from Vermont, where Bernie waxes on about the Sandinistas, Che Guevara, and a whole host of other Communist nations and leaders.  It's old, but there he is on tape.  The young may not care, but the older voters (starting probably in their late 40s) aren't gong to like it.If he brushes it off and manages to win it all, then that era is dead.  If!

(02-25-2020, 07:15 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-25-2020, 06:12 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-25-2020, 05:10 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I dissent from the idea that Sanders has lost FL because he mentioned the obvious truth that everyone knows, just as Sanders said. Socialist and communist countries can improve the lot of some peoples' lives. I don't know why the focus by pundits on these comments when Sanders also explicitly rejected in them the authoritarian and brutal actions of these dictators. The only people in Florida who would object to a complete picture of Castro's regime are the anti-Castro Cuban exiles, fewer in number every year, who are Republicans anyway. They are even strongly opposed to ending the embargo, and Trump is doing their bidding. So we'll see how "damaging" it is. Sanders is good at explaining himself and at debating. Tonight will be a good test.

Date: Tuesday, February 25
Time: 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. ET.
Watch on TV: The debate will air on CBS stations.
Live stream online: Stream on CBSN via the video player in this article or across a number of devices, including Roku, Apple TV, and Amazon Fire TV. You can also watch live on CBS All Access with a free trial. The debate will be live-streamed on Twitter, Facebook and YouTube.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/democratic-debate-south-carolina-tonight-time-channel-stream-online-cbsn/

Believe me, South Floridians know this cold.  Too many came from Cuba or Nicaragua or Venezuela, or their parents or grandparents did.  Hating Castro, and the other Communists from that era, is prevalent everywhere -- in all generations.  Add in the retirees, who love Trump anyway, and it's a done deal.

It was a stupid move.  Worse, there are hundreds of hours of public-access video from Vermont, where Bernie waxes on about the Sandinistas, Che Guevara, and a whole host of other Communist nations and leaders.  It's old, but there he is on tape.  The young may not care, but the older voters (starting probably in their late 40s) aren't gong to like it.If he brushes it off and manages to win it all, then that era is dead.  If!

I don't see how that's possible, when most Castro haters are old and Republican? The younger ones and the non-Cubans there don't care so much, any more than other Americans. Florida is a very diverse state; Cubans are a small part of it. Most educated people know that socialism vs. capitalism is not a black and white issue. I don't see why common sense won't prevail here. And the retirees like social security too. Florida has been a razor's edge state and it will be again.

The Sandinista leader Ortega turned out to be rather conservative, and he still runs the country. What was wrong was Reagan's support of the contras, who were terrorists who we supported to crush a native revolution of people seeking a better life. Sanders was completely right on that one. 

What he said in the past is not as relevant as his clear denunciation of dictators, including socialist and communist ones. Why isn't that being played up?

A dumb move, maybe. But I don't think it was a move. Bernie just tells the truth; that's his style, and people like it. If people would rather have a perpetual liar instead of a truth teller, then that tells us our nation is doomed. It may be, but that's where we're at.

(02-26-2020, 10:31 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-25-2020, 07:15 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-25-2020, 06:12 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-25-2020, 05:10 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I dissent from the idea that Sanders has lost FL because he mentioned the obvious truth that everyone knows, just as Sanders said. Socialist and communist countries can improve the lot of some peoples' lives. I don't know why the focus by pundits on these comments when Sanders also explicitly rejected in them the authoritarian and brutal actions of these dictators. The only people in Florida who would object to a complete picture of Castro's regime are the anti-Castro Cuban exiles, fewer in number every year, who are Republicans anyway. They are even strongly opposed to ending the embargo, and Trump is doing their bidding. So we'll see how "damaging" it is. Sanders is good at explaining himself and at debating. Tonight will be a good test.

Date: Tuesday, February 25
Time: 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. ET.
Watch on TV: The debate will air on CBS stations.
Live stream online: Stream on CBSN via the video player in this article or across a number of devices, including Roku, Apple TV, and Amazon Fire TV. You can also watch live on CBS All Access with a free trial. The debate will be live-streamed on Twitter, Facebook and YouTube.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/democratic-debate-south-carolina-tonight-time-channel-stream-online-cbsn/

Believe me, South Floridians know this cold.  Too many came from Cuba or Nicaragua or Venezuela, or their parents or grandparents did.  Hating Castro, and the other Communists from that era, is prevalent everywhere -- in all generations.  Add in the retirees, who love Trump anyway, and it's a done deal.

It was a stupid move.  Worse, there are hundreds of hours of public-access video from Vermont, where Bernie waxes on about the Sandinistas, Che Guevara, and a whole host of other Communist nations and leaders.  It's old, but there he is on tape.  The young may not care, but the older voters (starting probably in their late 40s) aren't gong to like it.If he brushes it off and manages to win it all, then that era is dead.  If!

I don't see how that's possible, when most Castro haters are old and Republican? The younger ones and the non-Cubans there don't care so much, any more than other Americans. Florida is a very diverse state; Cubans are a small part of it. Most educated people know that socialism vs. capitalism is not a black and white issue. I don't see why common sense won't prevail here. And the retirees like social security too. Florida has been a razor's edge state and it will be again.

The Sandinista leader Ortega turned out to be rather conservative, and he still runs the country. What was wrong was Reagan's support of the contras, who were terrorists who we supported to crush a native revolution of people seeking a better life. Sanders was completely right on that one. 

What he said in the past is not as relevant as his clear denunciation of dictators, including socialist and communist ones. Why isn't that being played up?

A dumb move, maybe. But I don't think it was a move. Bernie just tells the truth; that's his style, and people like it. If people would rather have a perpetual liar instead of a truth teller, then that tells us our nation is doomed. It may be, but that's where we're at.

Eric, I've spent a lot of time working in Florida, and I know these folks pretty well.  There are a lot of Catholics (some lapsed, but still bound on a cultural level). The young ones grew up hearing the stories.  After all, refugees, like those in the Mariel boatlift, may have included parents and grandparents … or fiends of their parents or grandparents.  I'm sure there's a lower cutoff age where that's less problematic, but remember: both Trump and Rubio won in 2016, and both DeSantis and Scott won in 2018, when the Dems were on a roll.

With Bernie, Florida goes Red for a few cycles .. until the Silents and older Boomers are gone.

(02-26-2020, 04:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-26-2020, 10:31 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-25-2020, 07:15 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-25-2020, 06:12 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-25-2020, 05:10 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I dissent from the idea that Sanders has lost FL because he mentioned the obvious truth that everyone knows, just as Sanders said. Socialist and communist countries can improve the lot of some peoples' lives. I don't know why the focus by pundits on these comments when Sanders also explicitly rejected in them the authoritarian and brutal actions of these dictators. The only people in Florida who would object to a complete picture of Castro's regime are the anti-Castro Cuban exiles, fewer in number every year, who are Republicans anyway. They are even strongly opposed to ending the embargo, and Trump is doing their bidding. So we'll see how "damaging" it is. Sanders is good at explaining himself and at debating. Tonight will be a good test.

Date: Tuesday, February 25
Time: 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. ET.
Watch on TV: The debate will air on CBS stations.
Live stream online: Stream on CBSN via the video player in this article or across a number of devices, including Roku, Apple TV, and Amazon Fire TV. You can also watch live on CBS All Access with a free trial. The debate will be live-streamed on Twitter, Facebook and YouTube.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/democratic-debate-south-carolina-tonight-time-channel-stream-online-cbsn/

Believe me, South Floridians know this cold.  Too many came from Cuba or Nicaragua or Venezuela, or their parents or grandparents did.  Hating Castro, and the other Communists from that era, is prevalent everywhere -- in all generations.  Add in the retirees, who love Trump anyway, and it's a done deal.

It was a stupid move.  Worse, there are hundreds of hours of public-access video from Vermont, where Bernie waxes on about the Sandinistas, Che Guevara, and a whole host of other Communist nations and leaders.  It's old, but there he is on tape.  The young may not care, but the older voters (starting probably in their late 40s) aren't gong to like it.If he brushes it off and manages to win it all, then that era is dead.  If!

I don't see how that's possible, when most Castro haters are old and Republican? The younger ones and the non-Cubans there don't care so much, any more than other Americans. Florida is a very diverse state; Cubans are a small part of it. Most educated people know that socialism vs. capitalism is not a black and white issue. I don't see why common sense won't prevail here. And the retirees like social security too. Florida has been a razor's edge state and it will be again.

The Sandinista leader Ortega turned out to be rather conservative, and he still runs the country. What was wrong was Reagan's support of the contras, who were terrorists who we supported to crush a native revolution of people seeking a better life. Sanders was completely right on that one. 

What he said in the past is not as relevant as his clear denunciation of dictators, including socialist and communist ones. Why isn't that being played up?

A dumb move, maybe. But I don't think it was a move. Bernie just tells the truth; that's his style, and people like it. If people would rather have a perpetual liar instead of a truth teller, then that tells us our nation is doomed. It may be, but that's where we're at.

Eric, I've spent a lot of time working in Florida, and I know these folks pretty well.  There are a lot of Catholics (some lapsed, but still bound on a cultural level). The young ones grew up hearing the stories.  After all, refugees, like those in the Mariel boatlift, may have included parents and grandparents … or fiends of their parents or grandparents.  I'm sure there's a lower cutoff age where that's less problematic, but remember: both Trump and Rubio won in 2016, and both DeSantis and Scott won in 2018, when the Dems were on a roll.

With Bernie, Florida goes Red for a few cycles .. until the Silents and older Boomers are gone.

I won't believe it until I see some polls. I see no reason why Floridians, other than a few Republican fanatics who support the embargo, would pounce on a few of Bernie's remarks instead of hearing everything he said and knowing that is was all obviously the truth. But you may be right; we'll see.

But Bernie is obviously not a panderer. He says what he thinks and means what he says, tells the truth, and talks the same way to everybody, even to children (see the Trevor Noah piece above). That may get him into trouble at times, but it is his most appealing trait.

(02-27-2020, 02:13 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-26-2020, 04:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-26-2020, 10:31 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-25-2020, 07:15 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-25-2020, 06:12 PM)David Horn Wrote: Believe me, South Floridians know this cold.  Too many came from Cuba or Nicaragua or Venezuela, or their parents or grandparents did.  Hating Castro, and the other Communists from that era, is prevalent everywhere -- in all generations.  Add in the retirees, who love Trump anyway, and it's a done deal.

It was a stupid move.  Worse, there are hundreds of hours of public-access video from Vermont, where Bernie waxes on about the Sandinistas, Che Guevara, and a whole host of other Communist nations and leaders.  It's old, but there he is on tape.  The young may not care, but the older voters (starting probably in their late 40s) aren't gong to like it.If he brushes it off and manages to win it all, then that era is dead.  If!

I don't see how that's possible, when most Castro haters are old and Republican? The younger ones and the non-Cubans there don't care so much, any more than other Americans. Florida is a very diverse state; Cubans are a small part of it. Most educated people know that socialism vs. capitalism is not a black and white issue. I don't see why common sense won't prevail here. And the retirees like social security too. Florida has been a razor's edge state and it will be again.

The Sandinista leader Ortega turned out to be rather conservative, and he still runs the country. What was wrong was Reagan's support of the contras, who were terrorists who we supported to crush a native revolution of people seeking a better life. Sanders was completely right on that one. 

What he said in the past is not as relevant as his clear denunciation of dictators, including socialist and communist ones. Why isn't that being played up?

A dumb move, maybe. But I don't think it was a move. Bernie just tells the truth; that's his style, and people like it. If people would rather have a perpetual liar instead of a truth teller, then that tells us our nation is doomed. It may be, but that's where we're at.

Eric, I've spent a lot of time working in Florida, and I know these folks pretty well.  There are a lot of Catholics (some lapsed, but still bound on a cultural level). The young ones grew up hearing the stories.  After all, refugees, like those in the Mariel boatlift, may have included parents and grandparents … or fiends of their parents or grandparents.  I'm sure there's a lower cutoff age where that's less problematic, but remember: both Trump and Rubio won in 2016, and both DeSantis and Scott won in 2018, when the Dems were on a roll.

With Bernie, Florida goes Red for a few cycles .. until the Silents and older Boomers are gone.

I won't believe it until I see some polls. I see no reason why Floridians, other than a few Republican fanatics who support the embargo, would pounce on a few of Bernie's remarks instead of hearing everything he said and knowing that is was all obviously the truth. But you may be right; we'll see.

But Bernie is obviously not a panderer. He says what he thinks and means what he says, tells the truth, and talks the same way to everybody, even to children (see the Trevor Noah piece above). That may get him into trouble at times, but it is his most appealing trait.

 -- l agree. The reason Bernie's campaign is so successful is bcuz he tells the truth. Making an observation about how Cuba's literacy rate improved under Castro is not an endorsement of Castro. His predecessor Batista was a monster, which is y there was a Cuban Revolution I. The 1st place

(02-27-2020, 10:53 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-27-2020, 02:13 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-26-2020, 04:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-26-2020, 10:31 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-25-2020, 07:15 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I don't see how that's possible, when most Castro haters are old and Republican? The younger ones and the non-Cubans there don't care so much, any more than other Americans. Florida is a very diverse state; Cubans are a small part of it. Most educated people know that socialism vs. capitalism is not a black and white issue. I don't see why common sense won't prevail here. And the retirees like social security too. Florida has been a razor's edge state and it will be again.

The Sandinista leader Ortega turned out to be rather conservative, and he still runs the country. What was wrong was Reagan's support of the contras, who were terrorists who we supported to crush a native revolution of people seeking a better life. Sanders was completely right on that one. 

What he said in the past is not as relevant as his clear denunciation of dictators, including socialist and communist ones. Why isn't that being played up?

A dumb move, maybe. But I don't think it was a move. Bernie just tells the truth; that's his style, and people like it. If people would rather have a perpetual liar instead of a truth teller, then that tells us our nation is doomed. It may be, but that's where we're at.

Eric, I've spent a lot of time working in Florida, and I know these folks pretty well.  There are a lot of Catholics (some lapsed, but still bound on a cultural level). The young ones grew up hearing the stories.  After all, refugees, like those in the Mariel boatlift, may have included parents and grandparents … or fiends of their parents or grandparents.  I'm sure there's a lower cutoff age where that's less problematic, but remember: both Trump and Rubio won in 2016, and both DeSantis and Scott won in 2018, when the Dems were on a roll.

With Bernie, Florida goes Red for a few cycles .. until the Silents and older Boomers are gone.

I won't believe it until I see some polls. I see no reason why Floridians, other than a few Republican fanatics who support the embargo, would pounce on a few of Bernie's remarks instead of hearing everything he said and knowing that is was all obviously the truth. But you may be right; we'll see.

But Bernie is obviously not a panderer. He says what he thinks and means what he says, tells the truth, and talks the same way to everybody, even to children (see the Trevor Noah piece above). That may get him into trouble at times, but it is his most appealing trait.

 -- l agree. The reason Bernie's campaign is so successful is bcuz he tells the truth. Making an observation about how Cuba's literacy rate improved under Castro is not an endorsement of Castro. His predecessor Batista was a monster, which is y there was a Cuban Revolution I. The 1st place

Right, and he said nothing different from what Obama said. The point is we don't want to demonize Cuba now. We established diplomatic relations and need to lift the embargo. Cuba now is not as bad as it once was, and seeing some positive traits in its government is useful now when we are engaging with them (or were until Trump disrupted things as usual). Even though his remarks may (or may not) have been the wrong thing to say in the campaign, it is the right approach for our president to take.

Of course, Obama did not make his move on Cuba until after he was safely re-elected. He won Florida twice, but Trump won it in 2016; maintaining its position as a swing state.