(03-15-2017, 09:34 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: 2. "Jim Crow" is dead. Political reality in most of the South is that the Republican Party is the White People's Party and the Democratic Party is the Black People's Party.  Tribal slits in politics practically ensure machine government even in the tiniest of hick towns. Such ensures that government will look like the majority even if the majority is only 51% of the electorate, and that because of sure victories because of ethnic identity, corrupt and incompetent politicians can get away with corruption and incompetence indefinitely. Patronage becomes the norm. The solution for corruption and incompetence is obvious enough: vote the bums out. The right way in which to deal with corrupt black Democrats in public office is to vote for the white Republican as an alternative. The right way to deal with corrupt and incompetent white Republicans in public office should be obvious.

(03-15-2017, 09:48 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-15-2017, 09:34 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: 2. "Jim Crow" is dead. Political reality in most of the South is that the Republican Party is the White People's Party and the Democratic Party is the Black People's Party.  Tribal slits in politics practically ensure machine government even in the tiniest of hick towns. Such ensures that government will look like the majority even if the majority is only 51% of the electorate, and that because of sure victories because of ethnic identity, corrupt and incompetent politicians can get away with corruption and incompetence indefinitely. Patronage becomes the norm. The solution for corruption and incompetence is obvious enough: vote the bums out. The right way in which to deal with corrupt black Democrats in public office is to vote for the white Republican as an alternative. The right way to deal with corrupt and incompetent white Republicans in public office should be obvious.

On Point 2, PBR, while the majority of Blacks tend to vote Dim-ocratic the Dims are not the party of black people.  While the majority of whites vote GOP the GOP is not the white party.  I can't speak for say Mississippi but in Florida blacks and whites run and win in both parties.  As for voting, one needs to periodically throw the bums out regardless their party.

Churn is better than corruption.

(03-15-2017, 05:04 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The South is a highly segregated society, with not much economic and social mobility and very racially-stratified neighborhoods and counties. The variance in living standards and education by race is high. Response to racist dog whistles about welfare blown by Republicans results in very polarized electorates by race. Voting rights are under attack and blacks are gerrymandered out of representation. Traditional attitudes keep peoples' minds very closed off to both alternative spirituality and rational scientific approaches to understanding the world, preferring to uphold superstitions like creationism, and making homosexuality and abortion issues central to voting preferences. Living standards and health and happiness levels are lower than the rest of the country. No, Dixie is still Dixie.

(03-15-2017, 11:00 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(03-15-2017, 09:48 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-15-2017, 09:34 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: 2. "Jim Crow" is dead. Political reality in most of the South is that the Republican Party is the White People's Party and the Democratic Party is the Black People's Party.  Tribal slits in politics practically ensure machine government even in the tiniest of hick towns. Such ensures that government will look like the majority even if the majority is only 51% of the electorate, and that because of sure victories because of ethnic identity, corrupt and incompetent politicians can get away with corruption and incompetence indefinitely. Patronage becomes the norm. The solution for corruption and incompetence is obvious enough: vote the bums out. The right way in which to deal with corrupt black Democrats in public office is to vote for the white Republican as an alternative. The right way to deal with corrupt and incompetent white Republicans in public office should be obvious.

On Point 2, PBR, while the majority of Blacks tend to vote Dim-ocratic the Dims are not the party of black people.  While the majority of whites vote GOP the GOP is not the white party.  I can't speak for say Mississippi but in Florida blacks and whites run and win in both parties.  As for voting, one needs to periodically throw the bums out regardless their party.

Churn is better than corruption.

Florida is no longer a stereotypical Southern state in its politics. The state has too many Yankee transplants to be truly Southern. See also Virginia and to lesser extents Texas and North Carolina.

The bums really need to go.

(03-16-2017, 08:58 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Unless it involves reenactments or honoring the Confederate dead, what else could a Confederate flag mean?

Proud to be white?

If one is proud to be from the South, then one could just as easily have a state flag. "I'm proud to be from Alabama"is neutral". The flag of the defense of slavery and Jim Crow is not neutral.

What can I assume when I see a Nazi or Soviet flag? One believes in the ideology!

(03-16-2017, 09:43 AM)FLBones Wrote: Confederate flag is a representation of southern heritage.

(03-16-2017, 09:43 AM)FLBones Wrote: Confederate flag is a representation of southern heritage.

(03-16-2017, 04:07 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The Battle Flag is a symbol which means different things to different people.  Alas, this is so at a values level.  Few change their mind as to what it might mean, at least until someone wades through a black church shooting.

(03-16-2017, 05:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-16-2017, 04:07 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The Battle Flag is a symbol which means different things to different people.  Alas, this is so at a values level.  Few change their mind as to what it might mean, at least until someone wades through a black church shooting.

I don't think those folks were killed because of a flag.

(03-15-2017, 11:36 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(03-15-2017, 05:04 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The South is a highly segregated society, with not much economic and social mobility and very racially-stratified neighborhoods and counties. The variance in living standards and education by race is high. Response to racist dog whistles about welfare blown by Republicans results in very polarized electorates by race. Voting rights are under attack and blacks are gerrymandered out of representation. Traditional attitudes keep peoples' minds very closed off to both alternative spirituality and rational scientific approaches to understanding the world, preferring to uphold superstitions like creationism, and making homosexuality and abortion issues central to voting preferences. Living standards and health and happiness levels are lower than the rest of the country. No, Dixie is still Dixie.

Uh, Eric;  Please, come to Oklahoma.   Again, Oklahoma does have Native American "concerns" happen to center and come to the center.   Our civilized tribes know what going downed. I'm one of those tribes , Cherokee, who think , assorted "whiteys" think are at one with the  civilized folks, are OK., right?   Now, 'll tell y'all this.  Any Native American folks got screwed.Of course...  your're'rreight when it cojmes to us "half breeds"s we know very well , our ancestry,  but vote for the stuff which is not right.  Yes, not rights, because we've vbeen scwreed, by the MIC|.

See, Eirc, I wish, I may, I wish, I knew, the 223andme knows, the truth, for Rag's'  ancestry, of  Nordic, N Agriccran, and  American, Rag's is nantion wide.

(03-16-2017, 05:49 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(03-16-2017, 05:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-16-2017, 04:07 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The Battle Flag is a symbol which means different things to different people.  Alas, this is so at a values level.  Few change their mind as to what it might mean, at least until someone wades through a black church shooting.

I don't think those folks were killed because of a flag.

Some of the values which some of the people associate with the flag had a lot to do with it.  Of course, making the flag go away won't kill the values, but flaunting the values doesn't help.

(03-16-2017, 06:41 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I think an association with a burning cross or a Nazi flag had more to with it than the Confederate flag myself. Making a flag go away and insulting southerners for being southerners ain't going to kill/eliminate the people who are willing to wade through a black church shooting or change the negative views that a majority of southerners and a large chunk of northerners have of blues/liberals either. If you can handle living with radical Muslims blowing up you're marathon and a Radical Muslim wading through American nightclub or a social gathering shooting without any reservations and concerns, you should be able to handle someone wading through a black church shooting without any reservations and concerns too. You're right, values or the lack of values as they pertain to certain people or groups of people as I see it, has something to do with it.

(03-16-2017, 10:44 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:  I look at the ‘make America great again’ slogan, and note that the time of America’s greatness was the peak of the New Deal and Borrow and Spend liberalism.

Quote:America was indeed great, until about Nixon’s time when the optimism and energy that created the greatness burned out.

Quote:But in doing all that, we stepped on people, we and similar European cultures.  There were black slaves.

Quote: There were Native Americans taken from the woods and planted in the deserts.

Quote:  There were Arabs living on top of a lot of oil, and the West grew rich and powerful on that oil, while the locals grew to hate us.

Quote:I also hear slogans like ‘America First’.  We seized a prominent place in the world and are striving to keep it.

Quote:  I see people waving Nazi and Confederate flags, expressing pride in the horrific past.

Quote: And those who were down, and make no mistake many of them are still down, should not be helped.  If one tries in any way to make amends for an unspeakable past, one is accused of betraying one’s race.  

Quote:I am not pleased with this.  As proud as I am of how Jefferson’s self evident truths brought something truly new out of the tyranny of the Agricultural Age, we got there walking all over people.  We are striving still to walk over them more.

Quote:I find it all to easy to understand the hate coming from the cultures exploited, still exploited.

Quote:There’s a fuse burning.  My instinct is to throw water on it, not gasoline.  Being into turning theory, that’s probably the wrong answer.  There will likely need to be an explosion.

Quote: When the crisis comes, I remain dubious that shutting the doors so one’s own cultural group can keep its privileged place in the world will be the answer.

(03-16-2017, 10:44 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I’m used to taking the label of ‘Whig’.  I have my arrow of progress.  I favor democracy, human rights and equality.  I see what advancing technology has done for us, but look to change society to adapt to the new environment technology gives us.  I look at the ‘make America great again’ slogan, and note that the time of America’s greatness was the peak of the New Deal and Borrow and Spend liberalism.  There is a pride in being an American, and a Whig.  America was indeed great, until about Nixon’s time when the optimism and energy that created the greatness burned out.

But in doing all that, we stepped on people, we and similar European cultures.  There were black slaves.  There were Native Americans taken from the woods and planted in the deserts.  There were Arabs living on top of a lot of oil, and the West grew rich and powerful on that oil, while the locals grew to hate us.

I find it awfully easy to understand any hatred and violence aimed in our direction.  We took so much.

I also hear slogans like ‘America First’.  We seized a prominent place in the world and are striving to keep it.  I see people waving Nazi and Confederate flags, expressing pride in the horrific past.  And those who were down, and make no mistake many of them are still down, should not be helped.  If one tries in any way to make amends for an unspeakable past, one is accused of betraying one’s race.  

I am not pleased with this.  As proud as I am of how Jefferson’s self evident truths brought something truly new out of the tyranny of the Agricultural Age, we got there walking all over people.  We are striving still to walk over them more.

Too many are excessively fond of our privileged place in the world, have become totally accustomed to this place, and will apply all sorts of upside down double think to excuse their efforts to maintain their privileged place.

I find it all to easy to understand the hate coming from the cultures exploited, still exploited.  It’s not harder to understand those wallowing in the wealth and the privilege.  They are so used to it.  Their arrogant belief in their exalted place in the world is deeply ingrained, unquestionable.  Yes, it’s values locked in.  Folks can look in their fancy gilt mirrors and not see themselves.

There’s a fuse burning.  My instinct is to throw water on it, not gasoline.  Being into turning theory, that’s probably the wrong answer.  There will likely need to be an explosion.

But there is that niggling arrow of progress.  Come the crisis, when the problems become too deep to be ignored, the solutions tend towards working for the common good, towards equality, towards democracy, towards inclusiveness.  I accuse others often enough of being values locked.  Me too.  I have that silly stubborn faith in Jefferson’s self evident truths.  When the crisis comes, I remain dubious that shutting the doors so one’s own cultural group can keep its privileged place in the world will be the answer.

(03-16-2017, 11:44 PM)TKinser79 Wrote: If I may interject here in your lamenting.  Perhaps a fresh perspective is necessary, and I'm the guy to provide it.

(03-16-2017, 10:44 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:  I look at the ‘make America great again’ slogan, and note that the time of America’s greatness was the peak of the New Deal and Borrow and Spend liberalism.

Actually no.  While I have no personal experience with the Great Depression I garuntee you that it was not the peak of American Greatness.  As for the Borrow and Spend Liberalism of the Regan/Bush I and Bush II eras were not the peak of American greatness either.