(03-17-2017, 04:00 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(03-17-2017, 01:49 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-17-2017, 11:23 AM)beechnut79 Wrote: Which departments would you gut?

I'd actually start with some supposedly national defense stand alone agencies.  Namely the NSA and the CIA (both are a pit of vipers and have been hated for a long time, going back to the 1T).

After that I'd start with EPA, Department of Education, Department of Energy, Department of Housing and Urban Development, Department of Homeland security (It duplicates the DOD in many cases--other issues can be shipped off to the treasury and like most things Boomer made is a giant cluster fuck),  

I would combine the Departments of Labor, Commerce, Agriculture into a new Department of Economic Affairs.

In short if I find a department I want to cut it.

As for the military I'd slash the army to the bone and close down hundreds if not thousands of foreign bases.  We're bordered by a country whose army consists of two Mounties and a dog on the north, and a country with no military tradition on the south and to the east and west by fish so for defense we need a strong navy and strong air force.  Anyone stupid enough to start a war can be dealt with by conscription.

And for the love of god I'd put a no vacancy sign on the boarders (and ports of entry).  My views on immigration aren't much different from Bill Cutting's.  Just change Irish to Mexicans.





Note in the film it is also a 4T.

Of course you want to gut the CIA. After all, they helped keep Western freedom safe for decades. Western freedom = bad, anti-Western "multi polar" world (with a defanged West cowering in the corner) = good, right?

(03-17-2017, 04:15 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-17-2017, 04:00 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(03-17-2017, 01:49 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-17-2017, 11:23 AM)beechnut79 Wrote: Which departments would you gut?

I'd actually start with some supposedly national defense stand alone agencies.  Namely the NSA and the CIA (both are a pit of vipers and have been hated for a long time, going back to the 1T).

After that I'd start with EPA, Department of Education, Department of Energy, Department of Housing and Urban Development, Department of Homeland security (It duplicates the DOD in many cases--other issues can be shipped off to the treasury and like most things Boomer made is a giant cluster fuck),  

I would combine the Departments of Labor, Commerce, Agriculture into a new Department of Economic Affairs.

In short if I find a department I want to cut it.

As for the military I'd slash the army to the bone and close down hundreds if not thousands of foreign bases.  We're bordered by a country whose army consists of two Mounties and a dog on the north, and a country with no military tradition on the south and to the east and west by fish so for defense we need a strong navy and strong air force.  Anyone stupid enough to start a war can be dealt with by conscription.

And for the love of god I'd put a no vacancy sign on the boarders (and ports of entry).  My views on immigration aren't much different from Bill Cutting's.  Just change Irish to Mexicans.





Note in the film it is also a 4T.

Of course you want to gut the CIA. After all, they helped keep Western freedom safe for decades. Western freedom = bad, anti-Western "multi polar" world (with a defanged West cowering in the corner) = good, right?

We need the CIA like a sixth hole in the head.  Overthrowing foreign governments, starting wars of choice, training terrorists here and there to strike back at America, and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't off the last Great President we had in Dallas in 1963.

They are a pit of vipers, a pit of venomous serpents seeking only to destroy the last remnants of our once great republic.

Inb4 Alphabet here accuses me of being a Russian agent.

(03-17-2017, 04:34 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Rags....

You want Mass Transit?  Leave that to the states and to the cities.  Interstate rail and air transport can be left with the DOT.  

I'd include Fannie and Freddie.  There is more than enough fat to trim.

As to the DOD yeah, it has a lot of bullshit that has to be wrapped up too.  An aggressive withdrawal back to our Hemisphere will do much to aid in that.

(03-17-2017, 04:43 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(03-17-2017, 04:34 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Rags....

You want Mass Transit?  Leave that to the states and to the cities.  Interstate rail and air transport can be left with the DOT.  

I'd include Fannie and Freddie.  There is more than enough fat to trim.

As to the DOD yeah, it has a lot of bullshit that has to be wrapped up too.  An aggressive withdrawal back to our Hemisphere will do much to aid in that.

Yes, I think the USA has an auto fetish. Autos belch out a lot of pollution. Also, in rural states like Oklahoma, I whistle stops along current rail lines would be nice. At present, if you want to fly, you have to drive more than 70 miles to hit the closest airport. I also like to pull any lever to get rid of the addiction to foreign oil.  I'd love to see what happens to  oil price once the externalities of defending oil imports gets tacked on.

(03-17-2017, 04:43 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(03-17-2017, 04:34 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Rags....

You want Mass Transit?  Leave that to the states and to the cities.  Interstate rail and air transport can be left with the DOT.  

I'd include Fannie and Freddie.  There is more than enough fat to trim.

As to the DOD yeah, it has a lot of bullshit that has to be wrapped up too.  An aggressive withdrawal back to our Hemisphere will do much to aid in that.

Yes, I think the USA has an auto fetish. Autos belch out a lot of pollution. Also, in rural states like Oklahoma, I whistle stops along current rail lines would be nice. At present, if you want to fly, you have to drive more than 70 miles to hit the closest airport. I also like to pull any lever to get rid of the addiction to foreign oil.  I'd love to see what happens to  oil price once the externalities of defending oil imports gets tacked on.

(03-18-2017, 12:27 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Careful with Kinser, Rags. He is a reactionary, and does not have the peoples' or even his own interests at heart.

(03-18-2017, 01:10 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I'd like to shut down the Department of Homeland Security. If there ever were to be a secret police agency operating in America, then it would be located in DHS. The FBI, the Marshals' Service, and the BATF are effective enough as it is.

Yes, Eric -- Kinser has gone from revolutionary to reactionary in seemingly two shakes of a puppy-dog's tail; in that I sense the delicate aroma of skunk spray.

(03-18-2017, 01:11 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Is there any question that the fossil-fuels industry has its hooks deep into President Trump?

(03-18-2017, 01:58 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: pbrower2aI'd like to shut down the Department of Homeland Security. If there ever were to be a secret police agency operating in America, then it would be located in DHS. The FBI, the Marshals' Service, and the BATF are effective enough as it is.
[quote pid='23765' dateline='1489817418']

Yes, Eric -- Kinser has gone from revolutionary to reactionary in seemingly two shakes of a puppy-dog's tail; in that I sense the delicate aroma of skunk spray.

(03-18-2017, 01:11 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Is there any question that the fossil-fuels industry has its hooks deep into President Trump?

Quote:I don't think it matters.  Let us just suppose we could convert to all renewable electricity generation tomorrow.  We'd still need fossil fuels to make and install all those solar panels and windmills and then we'd still need oil to transport them around to the instillation sites and that's assuming we don't need oil for the plastics to make them to start with.

The fact of the matter is if one wants to actually be "green" they need to think less of gimmicky products and gadgets and more along the lines of driving less, using less, and doing without more.  The latter is a much harder sell.

(03-18-2017, 02:34 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(03-18-2017, 01:58 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: pbrower2aI'd like to shut down the Department of Homeland Security. If there ever were to be a secret police agency operating in America, then it would be located in DHS. The FBI, the Marshals' Service, and the BATF are effective enough as it is.
[quote pid='23765' dateline='1489817418']

Yes, Eric -- Kinser has gone from revolutionary to reactionary in seemingly two shakes of a puppy-dog's tail; in that I sense the delicate aroma of skunk spray.

The main problem with DHS is that it is a giant cluster fuck, and has been since day one.  I'm less concerned with the FBI and Marshals than I am the other agencies.  The Secret Service should be returned to Treasury since besides protecting dignitaries their man function is to investigate and apprehend counterfeiters of the currency.  The BATF really has no purpose since Prohibition was repealed.

I'm surprised at your view PBR.  I thought you subscribed to the horseshoe theory of politics.

(03-18-2017, 01:11 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Is there any question that the fossil-fuels industry has its hooks deep into President Trump?

Quote:I don't think it matters.  Let us just suppose we could convert to all renewable electricity generation tomorrow.  We'd still need fossil fuels to make and install all those solar panels and windmills and then we'd still need oil to transport them around to the instillation sites and that's assuming we don't need oil for the plastics to make them to start with.

The fact of the matter is if one wants to actually be "green" they need to think less of gimmicky products and gadgets and more along the lines of driving less, using less, and doing without more.  The latter is a much harder sell.

(03-17-2017, 04:43 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(03-17-2017, 04:34 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Rags....

You want Mass Transit?  Leave that to the states and to the cities.  Interstate rail and air transport can be left with the DOT.  

I'd include Fannie and Freddie.  There is more than enough fat to trim.

As to the DOD yeah, it has a lot of bullshit that has to be wrapped up too.  An aggressive withdrawal back to our Hemisphere will do much to aid in that.

Yes, I think the USA has an auto fetish. Autos belch out a lot of pollution. Also, in rural states like Oklahoma, I whistle stops along current rail lines would be nice. At present, if you want to fly, you have to drive more than 70 miles to hit the closest airport. I also like to pull any lever to get rid of the addiction to foreign oil.  I'd love to see what happens to  oil price once the externalities of defending oil imports gets tacked on.

(03-18-2017, 01:11 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(03-17-2017, 04:43 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(03-17-2017, 04:34 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Rags....

You want Mass Transit?  Leave that to the states and to the cities.  Interstate rail and air transport can be left with the DOT.  

I'd include Fannie and Freddie.  There is more than enough fat to trim.

As to the DOD yeah, it has a lot of bullshit that has to be wrapped up too.  An aggressive withdrawal back to our Hemisphere will do much to aid in that.

Yes, I think the USA has an auto fetish. Autos belch out a lot of pollution. Also, in rural states like Oklahoma, I whistle stops along current rail lines would be nice. At present, if you want to fly, you have to drive more than 70 miles to hit the closest airport. I also like to pull any lever to get rid of the addiction to foreign oil.  I'd love to see what happens to  oil price once the externalities of defending oil imports gets tacked on.

Is there any question that the fossil-fuels industry has its hooks deep into President Trump?

PBR Wrote:1, 2 -- those agencies would be transferred back.

Quote:3. Not being involved in alcohol except as a slight drinker, or either tobacco or firearms at all, I have nothing to fear from BATF.

Quote:4. The CIA is no better than the Administration of the time. NSA? Likewise. Donald Trump is simply awful.

Quote:5. "Get a horse!" is an archaic expression from the time when the early automobiles were unreliable and the muddy, rutted paths of the time were even more unreliable.  5b. Irrelevant.

Quote:6. Concern troll stuff. Energy-saving equipment requires energy to build or make.

Quote:7. Eventually the factories will be run by solar power. Yes, extraction of silicon from sand is exemplifies a strongly endothermic process, but many objects that rely upon silicon chips can do much more with less. That's one way to cut energy use.

Quote:8. Amtrak does not get anything like the subsidies that air travel gets.

Quote:9. Considering that the GOP gave lockstep opposition to Obama and has a Republican President with whom it agrees on most critical issues... I expect cooperation by Congress much like that of the parliament of China. The legislative branch of government is a sick joke in a dictatorship.

(03-18-2017, 11:01 AM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(03-17-2017, 04:43 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(03-17-2017, 04:34 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Rags....

You want Mass Transit?  Leave that to the states and to the cities.  Interstate rail and air transport can be left with the DOT.  

I'd include Fannie and Freddie.  There is more than enough fat to trim.

As to the DOD yeah, it has a lot of bullshit that has to be wrapped up too.  An aggressive withdrawal back to our Hemisphere will do much to aid in that.

Yes, I think the USA has an auto fetish. Autos belch out a lot of pollution. Also, in rural states like Oklahoma, I whistle stops along current rail lines would be nice. At present, if you want to fly, you have to drive more than 70 miles to hit the closest airport. I also like to pull any lever to get rid of the addiction to foreign oil.  I'd love to see what happens to  oil price once the externalities of defending oil imports gets tacked on.

Does anybody on board here really think that the days of our auto-centric culture are about numbered? This theory has been floated around from time to time even since the long gasoline lines of 1973-74. But not much has changed since, and if anything we have, with the exception of in a few large older cities, become even more auto dependent since then. I believe our love affair with the auto will have to end, but as I am now 72, I don't expect it to happen while I am still alive.

(03-18-2017, 01:30 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-18-2017, 11:01 AM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(03-17-2017, 04:43 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(03-17-2017, 04:34 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Rags....

You want Mass Transit?  Leave that to the states and to the cities.  Interstate rail and air transport can be left with the DOT.  

I'd include Fannie and Freddie.  There is more than enough fat to trim.

As to the DOD yeah, it has a lot of bullshit that has to be wrapped up too.  An aggressive withdrawal back to our Hemisphere will do much to aid in that.

Yes, I think the USA has an auto fetish. Autos belch out a lot of pollution. Also, in rural states like Oklahoma, I whistle stops along current rail lines would be nice. At present, if you want to fly, you have to drive more than 70 miles to hit the closest airport. I also like to pull any lever to get rid of the addiction to foreign oil.  I'd love to see what happens to  oil price once the externalities of defending oil imports gets tacked on.

Does anybody on board here really think that the days of our auto-centric culture are about numbered? This theory has been floated around from time to time even since the long gasoline lines of 1973-74. But not much has changed since, and if anything we have, with the exception of in a few large older cities, become even more auto dependent since then. I believe our love affair with the auto will have to end, but as I am now 72, I don't expect it to happen while I am still alive.

Not to speak for anyone else, but it seems to me that anything that is unsustainable will eventually come to an end.  The question is do we have the will to implement those things necessary to have an orderly transition from now, to a transportation network that is distinctly not now.

At present we have Boomers (and some Xers) who are blocking progress in this area because they've completely bought into the whole notion that cars and driving are freedom.  A notion I've never fully understood.  Personally I'm not to fond of driving, and would rather wait on a bus or street car or some other conveyance.

(03-18-2017, 02:45 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: But you no doubt are the exception rather than the rule. Millennials seem to have embrace the more urban, transit-oriented lifestyle for now, but will they do an about-face once they really begin to start families? Or will they revert to embracing the car-dependent suburbs just as Boomers did? Recall that Boomers too were more urban friendly in their youthful mostly single days as well. Cars and driving do mean freedom, yes. But don't all the huge expenses associated with car driving (gas, insurance (now required by law just about everywhere), maintenance, licensing, parking fees, and most notably financing as almost all of us have to purchase them on time, negate much of the convenience factor? Apparently not enough to make very much of a dent. But this should be happening simply because most people's income is not nearly as secure as it was in the days following WWII when the car culture really took off. So far we don't seem to have the will; you are right on that. Again, it most likely would take a fallout just as bad or worse than the Great Depression.

(03-18-2017, 03:05 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: 3.  My experience with Boomers is that they were never really friendly with Urban living unless their previous experience itself was urban.  White boomers in particular seem to be the most prone to "wanting to get back to the land" even though they have no intention of taking up agriculture or actual rural living.

(03-18-2017, 03:05 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: 4.  When it comes to the notion of cars and "freedom":  Yes with a car you can go where you want when you want, yadda yadda yadda.  At the same time you have to make payments on the car, buy fluids and fuel for the car, maintain the car, pay taxes on the car, drive in shitty places, be stuck in endless hours o traffic.  In short you trade one set of non-freedom for an other set of non-freedom.  Honestly the freest I've ever felt was when I lived in Chicago or New York City.  Both areas where owning a car is not the best way to get around.

(03-18-2017, 11:01 AM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(03-17-2017, 04:43 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(03-17-2017, 04:34 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Rags....

You want Mass Transit?  Leave that to the states and to the cities.  Interstate rail and air transport can be left with the DOT.  

I'd include Fannie and Freddie.  There is more than enough fat to trim.

As to the DOD yeah, it has a lot of bullshit that has to be wrapped up too.  An aggressive withdrawal back to our Hemisphere will do much to aid in that.

Yes, I think the USA has an auto fetish. Autos belch out a lot of pollution. Also, in rural states like Oklahoma, I whistle stops along current rail lines would be nice. At present, if you want to fly, you have to drive more than 70 miles to hit the closest airport. I also like to pull any lever to get rid of the addiction to foreign oil.  I'd love to see what happens to  oil price once the externalities of defending oil imports gets tacked on.

Does anybody on board here really think that the days of our auto-centric culture are about numbered? This theory has been floated around from time to time even since the long gasoline lines of 1973-74. But not much has changed since, and if anything we have, with the exception of in a few large older cities, become even more auto dependent since then. I believe our love affair with the auto will have to end, but as I am now 72, I don't expect it to happen while I am still alive.