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The Maelstrom of Violence - Printable Version

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RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - Classic-Xer - 01-06-2021

(01-06-2021, 07:01 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:
(01-06-2021, 06:00 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The GOP is dead. The GOP hasn't come to that realization yet but its dead.

Yep.
Yep. The GOP and DNC are more or less viewed as being on the same side now.


RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - pbrower2a - 01-07-2021

The focus may have been on the Capitol Building, but there were similar events elsewhere in several states. I hate to violate copyrights, but it is hard to be more succinct than an AP wire or to make comments on it without showing personal bias. 




Quote:SANTA FE, N.M. (AP) — Protesters backing President Donald Trump massed outside statehouses from Georgia to New Mexico on Wednesday, leading some officials to evacuate while cheers rang out at several demonstrations as a pro-Trump mob stormed the U.S. Capitol.


Hundreds of people gathered in state capitals nationwide to oppose President-elect Joe Biden’s win, waving signs saying “Stop the steal” and “Four more years.” Most of them didn’t wear masks amid the coronavirus pandemic, and some carried guns in places like Oklahoma, Georgia, Arizona, Nevada and Washington state.

There were some scuffles in states like Ohio and California, with some instances of journalists or counterprotesters being pepper-sprayed or punched, but most demonstrations were peaceful — some of them quite small — and only a few arrests were reported.
New Mexico police evacuated staff as a precaution from a Statehouse building that includes the governor’s office and the secretary of state’s office, shortly after hundreds of flag-waving supporters arrived in a vehicle caravan and on horseback.

Demonstrators sang “God Bless America,” honked horns and wrongly announced on a megaphone that Trump was the rightful election winner — though Biden won the vote in New Mexico by a margin of roughly 11%.
“It’s the first time in the history of the United States that the peaceful transfer of power has been slowed by an act of violence,¨ Democratic House Speaker Brian Egolf said. “It is a shameful moment, and I hope that the Congress can recover soon.”
Violent protests in Washington, D.C., came as Congress tried to affirm Biden’s Electoral College victory. News that protesters had breached the U.S. Capitol set off cheers at pro-Trump protests in Minnesota, Nevada and Arizona, where armed protesters marched at the Capitol in Phoenix and several men displayed a guillotine.

Georgia’s secretary of state and his staff evacuated their offices at the Capitol as about 100 protesters gathered outside, some armed with long guns.
Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger and his team decided to leave, according to Gabriel Sterling, a top official with Raffensperger’s office.
“We saw stuff happening at the Georgia Capitol and said we should not be around here, we should not be a spark,” Sterling told The Associated Press.
Trump has focused much of his ire on Raffensperger in the weeks following his loss by about 12,000 votes.


Republican Gov. Brian Kemp slammed the storming of the U.S. Capitol, calling it “a disgrace and quite honestly un-American.” Kemp said he was extending an executive order from protests over the summer activating the National Guard in case they are needed to protect the state Capitol on Monday when the legislative session begins.
In Washington state, protesters broke through a gate at the governor’s mansion and dozens of people gathered on the lawn for about 30 minutes before being cleared from the area. The crowd, some of whom were armed, repeated baseless allegations of election fraud. The State Patrol said that Gov. Jay Inslee “and his family are in a safe location.”
Earlier, dozens of people gathered at the state Capitol, demanding a recount of the U.S. presidential election and Washington’s gubernatorial election, which Inslee, a Democrat, won by more than 500,000 votes. The Statehouse has been closed to the public for nearly a year due to the pandemic.
In Utah, the staff of Gov. Spencer Cox was sent home as several hundred people gathered in Salt Lake City, Lt. Gov. Deidre Henderson tweeted. Salt Lake Tribune photographer Rick Egan said he was pepper-sprayed by a demonstrator who taunted him for wearing a mask and shoved him as he was shooting video of the protest. It wasn’t immediately clear if anyone was arrested.
At least one person was arrested at the Oregon Capitol in Salem on suspicion of harassment and disorderly conduct as police in riot gear tried to get people — many of them armed — to leave.

Video showed protesters and counterprotesters clashing and riot police moving in. But by midafternoon, only a few dozen people remained, their American flags and Trump banners drooping in the rain.
In Topeka, Kansas, chants of “Stop the steal” and “No more masks” faded as a rally ended and Trump supporters filed peacefully into the Statehouse building through security checkpoints, milling around historical exhibits.
In Honolulu, about 100 protesters lined the road outside the state Capitol waving American and Trump 2020 flags at passing cars. Sheryl Bieler, a retiree in the blue state, said she came out to “support our president and support the integrity of the elections.”
Trump supporters circled the state Capitol building in Madison, Wisconsin, in cars and trucks adorned with Trump and U.S. flags for several hours Wednesday, blaring their horns.
In Colorado, Denver Mayor Michael Hancock ordered city agencies to close buildings after hundreds gathered in front of the Capitol building for a protest against the election results.
In South Carolina, protesters supporting Trump came to the Statehouse but left before the U.S. Capitol was breached.
___
Associated Press writers John Hanna in Topeka, Kansas; Rachel La Corte in Olympia, Washington; Andrew Selsky in Salem, Oregon; Sophia Eppolito in Salt Lake City; Audrey McAvoy in Honolulu; Jonathan J. Cooper in Phoenix; Patty Nieberg in Denver; Todd Richmond in Madison, Wisconsin; and Sam Metz in Carson City, Nevada, contributed to this report.


https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-georgia-coronavirus-pandemic-evacuations-e81e82d4c6d3db6bc45a68ae0124c85e


RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - pbrower2a - 01-07-2021

Unless you recognize that some of the people most likely to have led such a sick charade in Michigan are either in jail or under tight monitoring (recall the plot against the Governor late last year) I am surprised that no such story emerges from Michigan, one of the most politically-polarized of American states. We do have a response from the current and the former Governors of Michigan:



 LANSING, Mich. (WLNS) — Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer and former Republican Governor Rick Snyder released a joint statement today calling for national unity after pro-Trump supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol Building.
What is unfolding today in our nation’s capital is truly appalling. Violence, vandalism, and insurrection have no place in this great country of ours. We are a nation of laws, not mobs,” Whitmer said. 
“While we come from different backgrounds and political parties, Governor Whitmer and I share a deep love for our country,” Snyder said. “We must always remember that we are Americans first, and we are not one another’s enemy. That’s why I join with Governor Whitmer in calling on people of goodwill across America to pray for peace, calm, and healing.”  
“Now is the time to put this election behind us once and for all,” Whitmer added. “We must unify as one nation to defeat our real enemy, which is the pandemic that has taken far too many of our friends, neighbors, and loved ones. As Americans, there is no problem we can’t solve, and no challenge we can’t meet. Let’s all stay safe. Let’s take care of each other.

https://www.wlns.com/top-stories/governor-whitmer-snyder-issue-statements-regarding-d-c-protests/

[Image: 220px-WLNS_2015_logo.png]

Before anyone questions weather as a cause for political quiet in Michigan -- temperatures were seasonally chilly (just a bit above freezing), skies were overcast, and there was neither rain nor snow in the Lansing area.


RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - pbrower2a - 01-07-2021

(01-06-2021, 10:43 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(01-06-2021, 07:06 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:
(01-06-2021, 06:00 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(01-06-2021, 04:17 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Are you at the Capitol, Classic Xer? Your boys are doing what you say they are going to do.

Nope. I just found out about it a little while ago. I hate to say it, I told you so. We can't have two sets of rules or double standard in this country. Oh, and all the other stuff that I've been warning you guys about is coming too. The ball is in your court. Welcome to the 4T. You people should reconsider the crazy shit you want them to do to keep power in their hands and the money flowing in your direction. You should be happy though. The GOP is dead. The GOP hasn't come to that realization yet but its dead.

1. Do you consider the takeover the Capitol building anything other than disgusting?

2. Do you still believe that the President was cheated of a victory?

3. Do you consider the response of the President weak?

4. Do you recognize that the essence of democracy is that those who lose the election recognizing the validity of their losses?

5. Do you have any strong evidence other than some gut feeling to believe that Trump was cheated? 

6. Do you repudiate political violence including disruption of normal process?

I don't view what happened today as being anymore disgusting than what I watched take place all over the country last summer.

Black Lives Matters protests were far more civilized and respectful than this. I'm not going to speak for opportunistic rioters, but I can assure you that many protesters brought cameras so that they could document any police brutality. Many of the non-violent protesters are generally sympathetic to the police except in incidents (to put it as tamely as possible) of excessive force that ultimately disserve the police who have a tough job to do. Video and still cameras ended up documenting criminal behavior by rioters and violent counter-protesters. Know well that the news media readily share video of criminal acts to law enforcement. We probably agree about looters, vandals, and those who committed assault. Arrest them, prosecute them, and imprison them. Where we differ is on the rightful use of law enforcement. You want it to exist to repress anything that you consider "un-American", as you see the word "American" in a narrower range of ethnicity, religious heritage, and ideology than I do. I see law enforcement as a necessity for protecting property rights, civil liberties, and personal safety of us all in America.    


Quote: As I told you before, I don't think/believe Biden won the election fair and square.

If you don't think or believe that Biden won the 2020 election "fair and square", then tell me which elections have been "fair and square" in America.  I have a favorite link that you can use for making your choices. 

https://uselectionatlas.org/

Is this (2020)

[Image: DD0000.gif] Joseph R. Biden, Jr. Kamala D. Harris Democratic 81,284,778 51.27% 306 56.9% 
[Image: 0000DD.gif] Donald J. Trump Michael R. Pence Republican 74,224,501 46.82% 232 43.1%

somehow less decisive than this (1980)?

[Image: 0000DD.gif] Ronald Reagan George Bush Republican 43,903,230 50.75% 489 90.9%
[Image: DD0000.gif] James Carter Walter Mondale Democratic 35,480,115 41.01% 49  9.1%
[Image: 00DD00.gif] John Anderson Patrick Lucey Independent 5,719,850 6.61% 0.0%


Or do you consider elections valid only when they go the way that you want them? 

51.27% to 46.2% looks like a bigger margin than 50.75% to 47.67%, I'd say. 

Polling was generally consistent for Trump from mid-2017 to very late in the 2020 campaign, when Trump came closer to winning than had seemed possible. 


Quote:Trump's response was adequate in my opinion. 


No, it was not. Trump told the rioters in the Capitol that they had been cheated of a Trump victory. The voting was over, but Donald Trump sought to use a mass rally to overturn the vote. Mike Pence and Mitch McConnell did their appointed, Constitutionally-defined roles. 



 

(Deutsche Welle)



Quote:I understand the long standing tradition that we have as nation but I'm also realistic enough to understand that if the Democrats don't respect the rule of law like most everyone else the tradition we've shared as a nation will come to an end.

Bullhist! Democrats were fully for the rule of law throughout the campaign and the electoral process. The only irregularity about this election is the clear and present danger of a pandemic. So that people could vote without undue danger many state legislatures voted to allow extensions of early and absentee voting. So let us suppose that some militia appears at a polling place and gives an implicit threat that those that it does not want voting will face dire consequences for voting. Any police chief would confront such a militia and give it the choice of dispersing by using the means that it used for getting where it is or being arrested and taken away by the police.  Figure that COVID-19 poses a similar danger to an African-American voter as does a KKK fascist wielding a rifle, camera, or noose. Of course I will say this about COVID-19: it seems to pose a threat to anyone irrespective of ethnic origin. The police cannot arrest SARS-2, the virus responsible for the respiratory disease, let alone transport it to a jail.

I am also satisfied that the means of ensuring a clean election unsuited to tampering are as good as they ever have been. Both Parties have insisted upon this, and both have implemented controls that make tampering with voting devices or materials, impersonation of voters, acceptance of votes from deceased voters, or intimidation of voters much more difficult. Democrats may have been unable to canvas voters as they usually do, which may have ensured that fewer Democrats got elected than might otherwise have been elected. -- due to COVID-19.

If there is any vote fraud, it is intimidation by COVID-19... a virus.  


Quote:I view both parties as equally responsible for what happened today.


Tell me who the Democrats were at the Trump rally, and tell me what Democrats illegally entered and occupied the Capitol building.  Capitol police, who are probably heavily Democratic, do not count. But all in all, Congress ratified who will be President as of January 20 in an uncharacteristically bipartisan manner..



Quote:Like I said, the GOP is dead. On the other hand, the Republican base is here to stay.


The GOP in which Jacob Javits, Charles Percy, Hugh Scott, William Milliken, and probably Everett Dirksen and Gerald Ford were welcome is dead. People of the demographics that liked Ike and were called "Rockefeller Republicans" are now heavily Democratic in their voting. Just recall my Eisenhower/Obama overlay. Republicans used to wipe the Democrats on the floor with people of above-average education; now Democrats do so with Republicans among people with above-average education. As late as 1964 Goldwater won among college-educated voters despite losing in a 60-40 landslide in the popular vote against "Au H2O". 

I'm not going to deny the reality of the Trump base and its likelihood of getting its favored candidate nominated as the Republican candidate for President in 2024. The Trump base is old and less-well educated. It is not being replenished adequately to win reliably in subsequent elections.  

Quote:Political violence had already been used several times before today which now makes it an option from here forward.

...an option likely to cause one to be taken away in a police squad car, of course whether immediately or after one is indicted (based perhaps upon photographic evidence that people supply to police or prosecutors in disgust toward an illegal act). Know well: whether one is in the USA or China one is just as free to riot -- which means, not at all. The difference is that American prosecution doesn't need any secret police to win convictions against rioters such as those who disrupted a session of Congress.


RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - David Horn - 01-07-2021

(01-06-2021, 10:43 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I don't view what happened today as being anymore disgusting than what I watched take place all over the country last summer. As I told you before, I don't think/believe Biden won the election fair and square. Trump's response was adequate in my opinion. I understand the long standing tradition that we have as nation but I'm also realistic enough to understand that if the Democrats don't respect the rule of law like most everyone else the tradition we've shared as a nation will come to an end. I view both parties as equally responsible for what happened today. Like I said, the GOP is dead. On the other hand, the Republican base is here to stay. Political violence had already been used several times before today which now makes it an option from here forward.

I'll answer your objections in order:
  • If you really believe what you wrote, you might be well advised to consider the dictionary definition of sedition: sedition [səˈdiSH(ə)n] conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch.  Nothing done by any of the protestors last summer (or any time recently) qualifies as sedition, but inciting a group of hyped-up Trumpists to invade the US Capitol certainly does.
  • I assume you have an idea in mind that describes how "the Democrats don't respect the rule of law like most everyone else", so pray tell us. I'm sure its the product of the alt-media, so it's almost certainly outside my view plane.
  • Both sides do it is nonsense, particularly in this case. I saw no actions by anyone associated with the Democrats contribute to this riot in any way.  I saw a few of their vets and former spooks take charge and keep people safe.
  • What I saw was a group of conspiracy cultists following their cult-muse: DJT.  I also saw a few (certainly not all) Republicans looking at the carnage and deciding they were playing on the wrong team.



RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - pbrower2a - 01-08-2021

(01-07-2021, 01:38 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(01-06-2021, 10:43 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I don't view what happened today as being anymore disgusting than what I watched take place all over the country last summer. As I told you before, I don't think/believe Biden won the election fair and square. Trump's response was adequate in my opinion. I understand the long standing tradition that we have as nation but I'm also realistic enough to understand that if the Democrats don't respect the rule of law like most everyone else the tradition we've shared as a nation will come to an end. I view both parties as equally responsible for what happened today. Like I said, the GOP is dead. On the other hand, the Republican base is here to stay. Political violence had already been used several times before today which now makes it an option from here forward.

I'll answer your objections in order:
  • If you really believe what you wrote, you might be well advised to consider the dictionary definition of sedition: sedition [səˈdiSH(ə)n] conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch.  Nothing done by any of the protestors last summer (or any time recently) qualifies as sedition, but inciting a group of hyped-up Trumpists to invade the US Capitol certainly does.
  • I assume you have an idea in mind that describes how "the Democrats don't respect the rule of law like most everyone else", so pray tell us. I'm sure its the product of the alt-media, so it's almost certainly outside my view plane.
  • Both sides do it is nonsense, particularly in this case. I saw no actions by anyone associated with the Democrats contribute to this riot in any way.  I saw a few of their vets and former spooks take charge and keep people safe.
  • What I saw was a group of conspiracy cultists following their cult-muse: DJT.  I also saw a few (certainly not all) Republicans looking at the carnage and deciding they were playing on the wrong team.

Very different from my answers, but at least equally right. Donald Trump has just made himself the scapegoat for everything that has gone wrong in the last part of this Crisis.


RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - Classic-Xer - 01-10-2021

(01-07-2021, 01:38 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(01-06-2021, 10:43 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I don't view what happened today as being anymore disgusting than what I watched take place all over the country last summer. As I told you before, I don't think/believe Biden won the election fair and square. Trump's response was adequate in my opinion. I understand the long standing tradition that we have as nation but I'm also realistic enough to understand that if the Democrats don't respect the rule of law like most everyone else the tradition we've shared as a nation will come to an end. I view both parties as equally responsible for what happened today. Like I said, the GOP is dead. On the other hand, the Republican base is here to stay. Political violence had already been used several times before today which now makes it an option from here forward.

I'll answer your objections in order:
  • If you really believe what you wrote, you might be well advised to consider the dictionary definition of sedition: sedition [səˈdiSH(ə)n] conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch.  Nothing done by any of the protestors last summer (or any time recently) qualifies as sedition, but inciting a group of hyped-up Trumpists to invade the US Capitol certainly does.
  • I assume you have an idea in mind that describes how "the Democrats don't respect the rule of law like most everyone else", so pray tell us. I'm sure its the product of the alt-media, so it's almost certainly outside my view plane.
  • Both sides do it is nonsense, particularly in this case. I saw no actions by anyone associated with the Democrats contribute to this riot in any way.  I saw a few of their vets and former spooks take charge and keep people safe.
  • What I saw was a group of conspiracy cultists following their cult-muse: DJT.  I also saw a few (certainly not all) Republicans looking at the carnage and deciding they were playing on the wrong team.
You should check out the definition of insurrection. Do you have two eyes and ears that work and a sound mind that is capable of reasoning? If you do, you haven't shown it for many years? Oh, I take that back. I saw it once many years ago when you knew that you lost a battle for control over a forum to me and a group of hard core American believers. Well, what took place back then is about to take place nationally with the Democrats in the position of making mistakes and losing control of everything. Welcome to the 4T.


RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - taramarie - 01-10-2021

David, i highly recommend he is removed given he only seems to lash out like a child and as such isnt worthy of having a conversation with, as he fails to hold a conversation as a mature adult. He never grew up emotionally.


RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - Classic-Xer - 01-10-2021

(01-10-2021, 04:46 PM)taramarie Wrote: David, i highly recommend he is removed given he only seems to lash out like a child and as such isnt worthy of having a conversation with, as he fails to hold a conversation as a mature adult. He never grew up emotionally.
Who's the child? Look at yourself, see what you want a moderator to do for you and your peace of mind. I suggest that you grow up or stick to art.


RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - gabrielle - 01-11-2021

The American people have voted to give control of the White House, the Senate, and the House of Representatives to the Democrats. Georgia has turned blue, and the "Squad" is growing. In the aftermath of the thwarted insurrection, the president is facing a second impeachment. White House officials are abandoning ship, and several Republicans have joined in calling for his impeachment. Trump has been banned permanently from twitter and facebook, and parler is offline. Trump's approval ratings with the public have long been poor. Those who fomented rebellion in Congress are losing their major donors and facing heavy censure. Those who participated in the assault of the Capitol are being hunted down and arrested, with many of them making excuses and pleading mercy.

I don't know, Classic Xer, it looks to me like it is your side that is losing.


RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - David Horn - 01-11-2021

(01-10-2021, 04:19 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(01-07-2021, 01:38 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(01-06-2021, 10:43 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I don't view what happened today as being anymore disgusting than what I watched take place all over the country last summer. As I told you before, I don't think/believe Biden won the election fair and square. Trump's response was adequate in my opinion. I understand the long standing tradition that we have as nation but I'm also realistic enough to understand that if the Democrats don't respect the rule of law like most everyone else the tradition we've shared as a nation will come to an end. I view both parties as equally responsible for what happened today. Like I said, the GOP is dead. On the other hand, the Republican base is here to stay. Political violence had already been used several times before today which now makes it an option from here forward.

I'll answer your objections in order:
  • If you really believe what you wrote, you might be well advised to consider the dictionary definition of sedition: sedition [səˈdiSH(ə)n] conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch.  Nothing done by any of the protestors last summer (or any time recently) qualifies as sedition, but inciting a group of hyped-up Trumpists to invade the US Capitol certainly does.
  • I assume you have an idea in mind that describes how "the Democrats don't respect the rule of law like most everyone else", so pray tell us. I'm sure its the product of the alt-media, so it's almost certainly outside my view plane.
  • Both sides do it is nonsense, particularly in this case. I saw no actions by anyone associated with the Democrats contribute to this riot in any way.  I saw a few of their vets and former spooks take charge and keep people safe.
  • What I saw was a group of conspiracy cultists following their cult-muse: DJT.  I also saw a few (certainly not all) Republicans looking at the carnage and deciding they were playing on the wrong team.

You should check out the definition of insurrection. Do you have two eyes and ears that work and a sound mind that is capable of reasoning? If you do, you haven't shown it for many years? Oh, I take that back. I saw it once many years ago when you knew that you lost a battle for control over a forum to me and a group of hard core American believers. Well, what took place back then is about to take place nationally with the Democrats in the position of making mistakes and losing control of everything. Welcome to the 4T.

Picking one at random: insurrection (insəˈrekSH(ə)n) -- a violent uprising against an authority or government. That's pretty accurate to what occurred on 1/6/2021, and it won't be allowed to just lie there and be ignored. If you're in this, you should contact your lawyer.


RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - David Horn - 01-11-2021

(01-10-2021, 05:14 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(01-10-2021, 04:46 PM)taramarie Wrote: David, i highly recommend he is removed given he only seems to lash out like a child and as such isnt worthy of having a conversation with, as he fails to hold a conversation as a mature adult. He never grew up emotionally.

Who's the child? Look at yourself, see what you want a moderator to do for you and your peace of mind. I suggest that you grow up or stick to art.

C-Xer, I could require that you participate under your real name, since you're so full of bravado about it.  I use mine, and I don't throw insults around like cordwood.  Be brave; stand naked.


RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - David Horn - 01-11-2021

(01-11-2021, 11:27 AM)gabrielle Wrote: The American people have voted to give control of the White House, the Senate, and the House of Representatives to the Democrats. Georgia has turned blue, and the "Squad" is growing. In the aftermath of the thwarted insurrection, the president is facing a second impeachment. White House officials are abandoning ship, and several Republicans have joined in calling for his impeachment. Trump has been banned permanently from twitter and facebook, and parler is offline. Trump's approval ratings with the public have long been poor. Those who fomented rebellion in Congress are losing their major donors and facing heavy censure. Those who participated in the assault of the Capitol are being hunted down and arrested, with many of them making excuses and pleading mercy.

I don't know, Classic Xer, it looks to me like it is your side that is losing.

In alt-reality world, everything is as they like it to be, whether it is or not.  It's "Alice in Wonderland" for real.


RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - Bob Butler 54 - 01-11-2021

(01-11-2021, 11:27 AM)gabrielle Wrote: The American people have voted to give control of the White House, the Senate, and the House of Representatives to the Democrats. Georgia has turned blue, and the "Squad" is growing. In the aftermath of the thwarted insurrection, the president is facing a second impeachment. White House officials are abandoning ship, and several Republicans have joined in calling for his impeachment. Trump has been banned permanently from twitter and facebook, and parler is offline. Trump's approval ratings with the public have long been poor. Those who fomented rebellion in Congress are losing their major donors and facing heavy censure. Those who participated in the assault of the Capitol are being hunted down and arrested, with many of them making excuses and pleading mercy.

I don't know, Classic Xer, it looks to me like it is your side that is losing.

It is a matter of whether the Democrats can come through pushing for the working man and minorities, or whether the Republican support of the racists and elites will come to give them an advantage again. With COVID hot, the economy a mess, and concerns about systematic racism high, they have a window to sustain a progressive period. Everything is close enough that it is too soon to celebrate, however.


RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - Bob Butler 54 - 01-11-2021

I have been wondering about incidents similar to the Capitol Riots.  In Xenakis's forum, another poster actually found one.  In 1932 the governor of Newfoundland was considered corrupt.  A peaceful protest turned violent when the police tried to quell the people.  The mob drove the legislature and the governor out of the chambers.  This eventually resulted in Britain taking direct control of Newfoundland.  There were no democratic elections in Newfoundland until they eventually joined Canada, the only colony that was kicked out of the British Empire.

Check out the Wiki article if you are curious.


RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - Classic-Xer - 01-11-2021

(01-11-2021, 11:27 AM)gabrielle Wrote: The American people have voted to give control of the White House, the Senate, and the House of Representatives to the Democrats. Georgia has turned blue, and the "Squad" is growing. In the aftermath of the thwarted insurrection, the president is facing a second impeachment. White House officials are abandoning ship, and several Republicans have joined in calling for his impeachment. Trump has been banned permanently from twitter and facebook, and parler is offline. Trump's approval ratings with the public have long been poor. Those who fomented rebellion in Congress are losing their major donors and facing heavy censure. Those who participated in the assault of the Capitol are being hunted down and arrested, with many of them making excuses and pleading mercy.

I don't know, Classic Xer, it looks to me like it is your side that is losing.

Aren't you the one who was done politics and going back to focusing on art?

Looks can be deceiving, we are a 50/50 nation with one vote requiring some rule changes being the deciding factor with violence on the table and viewed as an option by both sides. If you look at the current political situation and use some imagination, you can see a nation that's positioned for a national split or war. Are you aware of all that it took for the Democratic party and some GOP to defeat Donald Trump? Lets see, it took several months of on going violence and covid restrictions, a continuous fear campaign that was waged for several months by most media outlets, illegal court decisions retaining to voting laws in some key states battle ground states, the assistance of big tech oligarchs controlling relevant information and eliminating voices of decent and political opposition and contributing hundreds of millions dollars and an absent candidate who barely left home who didn't have much to say when asked pertinent and relevant questions relating to known agenda's are what all it took to win the election. Right now, we are a fascist Democratic country more than an American country without a trustworthy referee who is able to keep the peace.

Yes, the Democratic side won but look at the position that the Democrats are in right now and look at how many freedoms and rights that the Democratic side has lost. We aren't three years into a crisis like Hoover and the Republican party was in 80 some years ago. The situation now is reversed. I don't know where you live or much care for that matter. I don't know if fascism and plutocracy and master class determining who you are, what your worth, what you have to believe and accept was what you wanted or expected or not but that's what you got and America is stuck with right now. How long will America go along with this political arrangement? Well, I can't speak for seventy some million individuals who have the right to wage war with a fascist Democratic regime. Did you see what all it took and how many wrongs were ignored by the Democratic party and some GOP to barely defeat Trump?

I know several people who have been banned or had their posts deleted by Facebook and Twitter recently. One happened to be the other day during a discussion between a Biden supporter and a Trump supporter. The Trump supporter had their rights taken away before the eyes of the Biden supporter. So, who gave Facebook the power and authority to do that in this country. Right now, the federal government doesn't have that power and authority available to it. The Big Tech owners are making a big mistake messing with a giant. The Democrats are making a big mistake too right now. Which is what we expect, we also expect them to make more mistakes. The GOP (Northeastern Republicans) has no other choice but to go along with whatever the Democrats want to do right now because they supported Biden and slight their own throats politically. I do not believe Americans voted for a fascist regime like the one that we clearly have in place today. I don't believe American voted to have their individual rights/freedoms removed by Progressive courts and law makers. I don't believe Americans voted for a socialist system either. I don't believe Americans voted to remove police funding and further weaken their authority to maintain order either.

We have two countries right now. We have a Progressive/Democratic country and an American country We have a Progressive/Democratic run country that wants to change everything to suit its particular needs and establish itself as the ultimate authority. We also an American country that's represented by Republicans who are not interested in accommodating them/it or serving their/its  needs that I more or less represent here today. So, I suggest that you prepare for the distinct possibility of being stuck between the side associated with the French Revolution (anarchy) and the guillotines and the side associated with the American Revolution and the American establishment as they more or less begin to square off with one another across the entire country. Once it starts there will be no place in this country where the Progressives are safe from Americans. America is always will be an American country. So, that is where I stand today and that is where I stood when I begin posting and began going about the dirty work involved with eliminating a fascist regime. I know of several companies who are sticking their necks out placing the lives of themselves and their employees at risk right now.


RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - Classic-Xer - 01-11-2021

(01-11-2021, 02:01 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: It is a matter of whether the Democrats can come through pushing for the working man and minorities, or whether the Republican support of the racists and elites will come to give them an advantage again.  With COVID hot, the economy a mess, and concerns about systematic racism high, they have a window to sustain a progressive period.  Everything is close enough that it is too soon to celebrate, however.
It's a matter of whether the Democrats can push through anything without starting a war and splitting a country. It won't take much changing since America has changed enough to result in either one these days. As I've mentioned before, relationships are built on trust and when trust is gone, the relationship ends. We are nearing the end of a relationship and how ugly the relationship ends has been left/placed in the hands of the Democrats.


RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - Classic-Xer - 01-11-2021

(01-11-2021, 12:25 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(01-10-2021, 05:14 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(01-10-2021, 04:46 PM)taramarie Wrote: David, i highly recommend he is removed given he only seems to lash out like a child and as such isnt worthy of having a conversation with, as he fails to hold a conversation as a mature adult. He never grew up emotionally.

Who's the child? Look at yourself, see what you want a moderator to do for you and your peace of mind. I suggest that you grow up or stick to art.

C-Xer, I could require that you participate under your real name, since you're so full of bravado about it.  I use mine, and I don't throw insults around like cordwood.  Be brave; stand naked.
My link is traceable like everyone else. You want to place yourself and loved ones at risk that's up to you. I prefer to remain private and continue go by the name Classic Xer. I don't throw insults around like cord wood. I'm very direct with my use of insults.


RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - Classic-Xer - 01-11-2021

(01-11-2021, 12:29 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(01-11-2021, 11:27 AM)gabrielle Wrote: The American people have voted to give control of the White House, the Senate, and the House of Representatives to the Democrats. Georgia has turned blue, and the "Squad" is growing. In the aftermath of the thwarted insurrection, the president is facing a second impeachment. White House officials are abandoning ship, and several Republicans have joined in calling for his impeachment. Trump has been banned permanently from twitter and facebook, and parler is offline. Trump's approval ratings with the public have long been poor. Those who fomented rebellion in Congress are losing their major donors and facing heavy censure. Those who participated in the assault of the Capitol are being hunted down and arrested, with many of them making excuses and pleading mercy.

I don't know, Classic Xer, it looks to me like it is your side that is losing.

In alt-reality world, everything is as they like it to be, whether it is or not.  It's "Alice in Wonderland" for real.
"Alice in Wonderland" or "The Wizard of Oz". They're both associated with Hollywood and everyone knows which side Hollywood is on these days. I think the truth is that Joe Biden will turn out to be the real/fake Wizard of Oz.


RE: The Maelstrom of Violence - pbrower2a - 01-11-2021

(01-10-2021, 04:19 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(01-07-2021, 01:38 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(01-06-2021, 10:43 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I don't view what happened today as being anymore disgusting than what I watched take place all over the country last summer. As I told you before, I don't think/believe Biden won the election fair and square. Trump's response was adequate in my opinion. I understand the long standing tradition that we have as nation but I'm also realistic enough to understand that if the Democrats don't respect the rule of law like most everyone else the tradition we've shared as a nation will come to an end. I view both parties as equally responsible for what happened today. Like I said, the GOP is dead. On the other hand, the Republican base is here to stay. Political violence had already been used several times before today which now makes it an option from here forward.

I'll answer your objections in order:
  • If you really believe what you wrote, you might be well advised to consider the dictionary definition of sedition: sedition [səˈdiSH(ə)n] conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch.  Nothing done by any of the protestors last summer (or any time recently) qualifies as sedition, but inciting a group of hyped-up Trumpists to invade the US Capitol certainly does.
  • I assume you have an idea in mind that describes how "the Democrats don't respect the rule of law like most everyone else", so pray tell us. I'm sure its the product of the alt-media, so it's almost certainly outside my view plane.
  • Both sides do it is nonsense, particularly in this case. I saw no actions by anyone associated with the Democrats contribute to this riot in any way.  I saw a few of their vets and former spooks take charge and keep people safe.
  • What I saw was a group of conspiracy cultists following their cult-muse: DJT.  I also saw a few (certainly not all) Republicans looking at the carnage and deciding they were playing on the wrong team.

You should check out the definition of insurrection. Do you have two eyes and ears that work and a sound mind that is capable of reasoning? If you do, you haven't shown it for many years? Oh, I take that back. I saw it once many years ago when you knew that you lost a battle for control over a forum to me and a group of hard core American believers. Well, what took place back then is about to take place nationally with the Democrats in the position of making mistakes and losing control of everything. Welcome to the 4T.

Again, Classic X'er, your definition of what constitutes belief in America or identity as an American. Of all the great empires in history (and I refer to scale and power, and the US as the Empire of Liberty stacks up to all of those empires as rather imposing in power, durability, scale, and influence) less defines what makes one an American than any other. "American" does not imply any race, ethnicity, or religion. It does not imply any particular ideology. One can be a Ku Klux Klansman and an American or a Black Panther and an American (yuck -- but that is the truth!)
 
I remember one of your earlier incarnations telling someone to commit suicide, which is unconscionable. I took it up with the moderator and even suggested that you would be accepted if you repudiated and apologized for that statement. There are people in extreme depression or panic, and telling someone potentially suicidal on a ledge to jump would be cause for arrest. Maybe I am excessively literal about something like that, but you must assume that there are people who take every word literally. As that goes, one profession does take every word literally -- and that is the legal profession. 

By narrowing what it means to be an American in good standing, one simultaneously takes away liberty... and if the narrowing should be enough, then we simply have a Big Bad Evil Empire.  

Donald Trump is disgraced as no President in history. We have had failures, but no President has ever sought to nullify an election in favor of himself or a successor. Note well: one of the most reliable means of establishing a dictatorship is to nullify an election.  We accept electoral results that we dislike but cannot disprove (there would have to be very strong evidence of electoral fraud, such as masses of ballots discarded floating down a river that seem marked contrary to the result) or we accept whatever some leader says that the vote was. 

Events of January 6 look more like the Bolsheviks storming the Winter Palace in 1917 than they do like anything that we have ever seen in American history. Note well: there was an election for the Russian Constituent Assembly, but Vladimir Lenin nullified the vote that he lost because the 'wrong' people won. At that point the Soviet dictatorship began. 

I'm not accusing you, of course, of being a Commie. That is not your ideology. Yours better resembles that of Augusto Pinochet... but his regime was a soul-crushing as any Commie regime except that of the Khmer Rouge.