I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT!

[playwrite]

(11-10-2016, 06:54 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Breaking from Newsmax.com
#Calexit: Trump's Victory Renews Push for California to Leave US
A new push for California to exit the United States has arisen in the wake of Donald Trump winning the presidency. "Yes California," a campaign that aims to put a referendum on the 2019 ballot for the Golden State to leave the U.S., leads the charge.


CNN reported that 61 percent of the state’s voters supported Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton, and the state’s electoral college votes went to her.

"As the sixth largest economy in the world, California is more economically powerful than France and has a population larger than Poland. Point-by-point, California compares with countries, not just the 49 other states," read the campaign’s site.

While the "Yes" campaign has been considered a fringe movement, supporters of leaving the union took to Twitter after Trump won, using the hashtag #Calexit, a reference to the Brexit movement in Britain to leave the European Union.

The New York Daily News reported that one Twitter user issued a proposal in graphic form:


While not calling for the state to leave the union, two Democratic legislators in the state, Senate president Kevin de Leon and assembly speaker Anthony Rendon, issued a statement about the election results:
"We woke up feeling like strangers in a foreign land, because yesterday Americans expressed their views on a pluralistic and democratic society that are clearly inconsistent with the values of the people of California."
© 2016 Newsmax. All rights reserved.

Eric, it's been fun dreaming about jettisoning the knuckle draggers, but it probable isn't going to happen ala the Civil War.
However, at a more refined level, the idea is a very good one and should be seriously taken up.

The place to start is moving from Sanctuary Cities to Sanctuary States.  There is nothing illegal about a state choosing not to support federal immigration enforcement.   There's the clear measures of just not expending state/local staff/monies on any direct support, but the much more powerful measures could be tangling up any federal deporting force in bureaucracy of gaining facilities, turning on the electricity, water.  Perhaps assigning police resources to stop-and-frisk federal deporters - you know, just to be sure they have the proper gun permits and identification.  Make these states a living hell for federal deporting agents to live in and raise their families. There could be official websites with the names and photos of these families as a "safety precaution" for the communities. 

Next, would be multi-state compacts for health insurance.  Without the burden of the health problem epidemic in most of Trumpland and the comparative wealth of the Blue states, the cost of health insurance could be drastically reduced with more than a sufficient risk pool across the relatively very wealthy Blue states.  This plays off of the GOP insistence for  removing the regulatory barriers to x-state insurance; it will be too late for Trumpland morons to figure out they screwed themselves and their financial elites really won't care any way.

I think there are numerous ways for the Blue states to further disengage from Trumpland without some attempt at formal secession.  I think the Blues could be clever about playing off the Red's anti-climate hysteria to achieve dominance in energy and transportation. The Reds are already cutting their own throats by jettisoning expansion of high-speed Internet access in most of Trumpland; we need to at least encourage that if not find Silicon Valley ways to accelerate that - making Trumpland relatively blind could be the foundation for over powering them on the political front.  Maybe we should actually encourage more "higher level education" in Trumpland being centered on creationism, climate change denial, etc. with, of course scholarships to those bright enough to want to get out of the science-less hellholes.

I've just started on this.  I think its a gold mine.  Imagine the enormous creativity of Blue States' most creative cities focused on disengagement from the backward Reds in every facet of our lives?  The Trumpstes won't know what hit them.

I realize this would leave behind a lot of our Blue brethern and sisters in backwards Trumpland, but we can offer migration to a better future.  We could also set up entrance requirements to Blue Nirvana networks, organizations, processes that would allow entry for those states in Trumpland that can show they've tossed out the Trump behavioral patterns. 

Thoughts?

[Eric the Green]

(11-10-2016, 08:05 PM)Danilynn Wrote: Strange, I remember in November of 2012, a whole lot of petitions by Southern states to leave or Exit were bandied about. Then it was called traitorous, whiny, sour grapes, and a whole lot of other unflattering things usually ending in the suffix "ist".

So how come all of a sudden, it is now *ok* for California to want to do it for much the same reasons. Obama certainly didn't jive with most southerners or our values. But now it's ok?

seems like that lovely double standard the liberals have is rearing it's ugly head again.

If it is Treason for the South, it's Treason for ya'll.

Remember your arguments quoting Lincoln? Or how about Obama? "elections have consequences" and his speech on Wednesday about working together with our new President Trump.

Not me; no double standard here. Myself and some others here have been talking about this all along. Remember I astrologically predicted decades ago that America would be thinking about this in these times. I have also suggested that Lincoln might have been wrong to fight to keep Dixie in. I don't know if I was right, but it's a plausible idea. Why should we force any state to stay in a union they voluntarily joined? Why not let them go if they want?

Trump sounded nice, it's the right start; but one short speech is not enough to convince me that he's willing to listen to the concerns of the people who opposed him, or even the midwest working-class former Democrats who supported him, and not repress the people and the press as he promised he would do during the campaign.

[Galen]

(11-10-2016, 09:21 PM)Danilynn Wrote: wow. name calling.

*so mature*

*sigh*

and you even missed the sarcasm laced first post too.

Not arguing with you. I just find the liberal tears and wailing amusing. Have a good night man.

In a bit of irony that Eric the Obtuse will certainly miss, Northern California has been trying to secede from the rest of the state for years.  Leave it to the Libertarians to recognize the irony of the progressives wanting to leave but not letting others.

[Eric the Green]

Thanks for your ideas Playwrite. It is fun to consider the possibilities of how to go our own way.

[Eric the Green]

(11-11-2016, 04:51 AM)Galen Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 09:21 PM)Danilynn Wrote: wow. name calling.

*so mature*

*sigh*

and you even missed the sarcasm laced first post too.

Not arguing with you. I just find the liberal tears and wailing amusing. Have a good night man.

In a bit of irony that Eric the Obtuse will certainly miss, Northern California has been trying to secede from the rest of the state for years.  Leave it to the Libertarians to recognize the irony of the progressives wanting to leave but not letting others.

I think I mentioned the possibility here just a day ago, that if CA secedes, the eastern rural parts of the state might break off and stay in. Once again Galen you are wrong in anything you say about me. Without fail, you fail.

[Galen]

(11-11-2016, 04:57 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 04:51 AM)Galen Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 09:21 PM)Danilynn Wrote: wow. name calling.

*so mature*

*sigh*

and you even missed the sarcasm laced first post too.

Not arguing with you. I just find the liberal tears and wailing amusing. Have a good night man.

In a bit of irony that Eric the Obtuse will certainly miss, Northern California has been trying to secede from the rest of the state for years.  Leave it to the Libertarians to recognize the irony of the progressives wanting to leave but not letting others.

I think I mentioned the possibility here just a day ago, that if CA secedes, the eastern rural parts of the state might break off and stay in. Once again Galen you are wrong in anything you say about me. Without fail, you fail.

You might, though I doubt this, progressive have historically never been inclined to let others decide anything for themselves.  In this they are little different than their pietist predecessors.  I simply can't see the major cities of California letting a major source of water go.

[Eric the Green]

Governor Brown has already been moving us toward desalination. Drought does spur water innovation. But who knows, the eastern counties might want to stay in CA if it secedes. But I couldn't see CA forcing them in, if we insist on not being forced to stay in the USA. Also, secession does not mean that resources can't be moved between states and nations. It happens all the time. It doesn't mean no trade between CA and other states in North America. It just means government decisions by the federal government, led by the dufuses that red states impose upon us, will be superceded by our own decisions.

Slavery was a different question, to be sure. If we had let the South secede, there would still have been problems for the South with slaves running away across the border, with no Dred Scot decision or Fugitive Slave Law to stop them and return them. This friction could still have erupted into war between the USA and CSA.

[Odin]

(11-10-2016, 08:05 PM)Danilynn Wrote: Strange, I remember in November of 2012, a whole lot of petitions by Southern states to leave or Exit were bandied about. Then it was called traitorous, whiny, sour grapes, and a whole lot of other unflattering things usually ending in the suffix "ist".

So how come all of a sudden, it is now *ok* for California to want to do it for much the same reasons. Obama certainly didn't jive with most southerners or our values. But now it's ok?

seems like that lovely double standard the liberals have is rearing it's ugly head again.

If it is Treason for the South, it's Treason for ya'll.

Remember your arguments quoting Lincoln? Or how about Obama? "elections have consequences" and his speech on Wednesday about working together with our new President Trump.

Danilynn is right, guys. We can't throw a temper tantrum and threaten secession every time our side loses.

[playwrite]

(11-11-2016, 08:06 AM)Odin Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 08:05 PM)Danilynn Wrote: Strange, I remember in November of 2012, a whole lot of petitions by Southern states to leave or Exit were bandied about. Then it was called traitorous, whiny, sour grapes, and a whole lot of other unflattering things usually ending in the suffix "ist".

So how come all of a sudden, it is now *ok* for California to want to do it for much the same reasons. Obama certainly didn't jive with most southerners or our values. But now it's ok?

seems like that lovely double standard the liberals have is rearing it's ugly head again.

If it is Treason for the South, it's Treason for ya'll.

Remember your arguments quoting Lincoln? Or how about Obama? "elections have consequences" and his speech on Wednesday about working together with our new President Trump.

Danilynn is right, guys. We can't throw a temper tantrum and threaten secession every time our side loses.

Threatening actual secession is a good tactic for setting the tone for "virtual secession" (TM pending).  I've posted above some of the possible initial steps, particularly fond of the "sanctuary states."  There's more, lots more, and I'm not quite as creative as those living in the Bay Area.  

[playwrite]

Release the Kracken!

We could up the Virtual Secession to Virtual Civil War (TMs pending).  What's particularly insidious about the Virtual War is it can be both very stealthy and actually fit in with the machinations of the coming Trump Trainwreck.

To put it mildly, I think everyone has at least a sense of the financial industry's tendencies to rip off the rest of the economy and society - see "blood sucking vampire squids stuck to face."

What's lesser know is the extent state-level governments, particularly in NY and CA, counter much of the attempts by the vampire squids.  Just for example, notice where the three lawsuits against Trump University are taking place.  Often other states enjoin with NY and CA primary judicial efforts or these two states provide enormous structural assistance to other states attempting to take on their more provincial vampire squids.

In a virtual war with Trumplandia, the virtual Blue States of American (BSA)could simple make clear to the various vampire squids that they will be looking the other way for those endeavors that target Trumplandia alone - extra points if those endeavors redline or profile certain Trumpster communities.

Just for example, imagine a Breitbart mutual fund that only invests in companies that have no associations with non-Whites or people of 'questionable religions.'  It would be like fishing in a barrel.  If BSA is looking the other way, and with no help, as specifically directed by President Pussygrabber and Trumplandia stooges in Congress, the vampire squids could literally suck whatever economic blood is left in the desperate Trumpsters of Trumplandia - a whole lot different "drain the swamp" than what they were expecting but certainly an ironic just-dessert.

This could be fun!  Watch and see if all those gold bugger commercials on Faux News channels, ZeroHedge, etc begin to morph into something much more fun and appealing.

[Kinser79]

(11-10-2016, 08:05 PM)Danilynn Wrote: Strange, I remember in November of 2012, a whole lot of petitions by Southern states to leave or Exit were bandied about. Then it was called traitorous, whiny, sour grapes, and a whole lot of other unflattering things usually ending in the suffix "ist".

So how come all of a sudden, it is now *ok* for California to want to do it for much the same reasons. Obama certainly didn't jive with most southerners or our values. But now it's ok?

seems like that lovely double standard the liberals have is rearing it's ugly head again.

If it is Treason for the South, it's Treason for ya'll.

Remember your arguments quoting Lincoln? Or how about Obama? "elections have consequences" and his speech on Wednesday about working together with our new President Trump.

As usual you're encountering the Libtard double standard. Myself I've somewhat favored breaking up the US for a while. It is too big to administer in a unitary fashion. So it is either go back to our traditional federalism or break up. Some even go so far as to say that Southerners and Northerners are entirely separate nations.

[playwrite]

(11-11-2016, 02:17 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 08:05 PM)Danilynn Wrote: Strange, I remember in November of 2012, a whole lot of petitions by Southern states to leave or Exit were bandied about. Then it was called traitorous, whiny, sour grapes, and a whole lot of other unflattering things usually ending in the suffix "ist".

So how come all of a sudden, it is now *ok* for California to want to do it for much the same reasons. Obama certainly didn't jive with most southerners or our values. But now it's ok?

seems like that lovely double standard the liberals have is rearing it's ugly head again.

If it is Treason for the South, it's Treason for ya'll.

Remember your arguments quoting Lincoln? Or how about Obama? "elections have consequences" and his speech on Wednesday about working together with our new President Trump.

As usual you're encountering the Libtard double standard.  Myself I've somewhat favored breaking up the US for a while.  It is too big to administer in a unitary fashion.  So it is either go back to our traditional federalism or break up.  Some even go so far as to say that Southerners and Northerners are entirely separate nations.

The divide is actually between those controlled by their over-active amygdala and those that are not.

You would feel really out of place if you get placed with those with fully functioning cerebral lobes so be careful how you divide the country up.

[Eric the Green]

(11-11-2016, 08:06 AM)Odin Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 08:05 PM)Danilynn Wrote: Strange, I remember in November of 2012, a whole lot of petitions by Southern states to leave or Exit were bandied about. Then it was called traitorous, whiny, sour grapes, and a whole lot of other unflattering things usually ending in the suffix "ist".

So how come all of a sudden, it is now *ok* for California to want to do it for much the same reasons. Obama certainly didn't jive with most southerners or our values. But now it's ok?

seems like that lovely double standard the liberals have is rearing it's ugly head again.

If it is Treason for the South, it's Treason for ya'll.

Remember your arguments quoting Lincoln? Or how about Obama? "elections have consequences" and his speech on Wednesday about working together with our new President Trump.

Danilynn is right, guys. We can't throw a temper tantrum and threaten secession every time our side loses.

But it's happening more and more, isn't it? You guys can say I was wrong on the election and therefore astrology is crapola. Maybe so, but remember again (if you possibly can) that I predicted based on astrology that this would happen, back when it was completely unthinkable and no such temper tantrums occurred.

We are divided, and the other side elected a president who is dedicated to stoking the divisions. Expect more and more temper tantrums, and more and more clever ways to evade federal control.

And remember the prescient words of Mr. William Strauss. He said here that after the 4T the borders of the USA would probably look different than before the 4T. So add the words of another great prophet to mine.

And so Strauss confirms my prediction, but my prediction predates his by decades as well, long before I ever knew of him or his and Neil's theories.

[playwrite]

(11-11-2016, 02:20 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 08:06 AM)Odin Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 08:05 PM)Danilynn Wrote: Strange, I remember in November of 2012, a whole lot of petitions by Southern states to leave or Exit were bandied about. Then it was called traitorous, whiny, sour grapes, and a whole lot of other unflattering things usually ending in the suffix "ist".

So how come all of a sudden, it is now *ok* for California to want to do it for much the same reasons. Obama certainly didn't jive with most southerners or our values. But now it's ok?

seems like that lovely double standard the liberals have is rearing it's ugly head again.

If it is Treason for the South, it's Treason for ya'll.

Remember your arguments quoting Lincoln? Or how about Obama? "elections have consequences" and his speech on Wednesday about working together with our new President Trump.

Danilynn is right, guys. We can't throw a temper tantrum and threaten secession every time our side loses.

I agree

Spoken with the carefree aplomb of someone living on the other side of the world.

Such bravery.  You go, Kiwi girl!

But don't you have more important things to do - it's hunting season in New Zealand

[Dan '82]

Has anyone looked at county level maps? That's where these type of things usually run into trouble; succession is never clean.

[Eric the Green]

Good advice for the Kiwi girl!

[Odin]

(11-11-2016, 03:30 PM)taramarie Wrote: I see that a particular someone is posting some juvenile comments to me. Just so people know I will not respond to immature comments. It is merely bait by people who did not grow up. In fact I could easily report it. But I will never respond unless the person speaks to me in a mature fashion. Only then will you get a response. I have no time for petty games.

Playwright has a history of accusing everyone who disagrees with him of having deficient brains. He's the definition of the pretentious, elitist latte liberal, he even has a god-damned trust fund.

[Odin]

(11-11-2016, 04:07 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 04:00 PM)Odin Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 03:30 PM)taramarie Wrote: I see that a particular someone is posting some juvenile comments to me. Just so people know I will not respond to immature comments. It is merely bait by people who did not grow up. In fact I could easily report it. But I will never respond unless the person speaks to me in a mature fashion. Only then will you get a response. I have no time for petty games.

Playwright has a history of accusing everyone who disagrees with him of having deficient brains. He's the definition of the pretentious, elitist latte liberal, he even has a god-damned trust fund.

Maybe. I am just tired of the fighting and silly behaviour I see around me. The inability to listen. I have awoken to the reality we must notice our own actions hurt us and what we stand for. Drawing us further away. If anyone should take anything from this Trump presidency it is that message. I warned people. Now I am further determined that it is helping in the destruction. So you see why I refuse to take the bait and feed it further. If I ever go quiet during a conversation that starts to get heated you will know why. I do not have the stomach for it anymore.

The sad thing is that when it comes to actual discusions on policy he is usually 100% right, but the moment anyone disagrees with him the schoolyard-level insults come out.

[JonLaw]

As a United States universalist expansionist years ago, I was a real fan of incorporating Mexico and Canada into the United States.

However, having thought about this some more, I've decided that I'm a fan of giving Mexico back the land that was illegally stolen in the Mexican war. We should probably do it that way rather than a Calexit.

Also, I want England and Wales to join the Union. We can even call it the "United Kingdom" and agree to have a queen/king. Scotland and N. Ireland can do whatever they want to do.

This way, the England parts of the New World can be part of England and the Spanish parts of the New World can join back together with Spain if they want to do that.

New France is too much of a rump state in the New World for me to care about it, so I'm not going to propose the partition of Canada.

[pbrower2a]

(11-10-2016, 08:05 PM)Danilynn Wrote: Strange, I remember in November of 2012, a whole lot of petitions by Southern states to leave or Exit were bandied about. Then it was called traitorous, whiny, sour grapes, and a whole lot of other unflattering things usually ending in the suffix "ist".

So how come all of a sudden, it is now *ok* for California to want to do it for much the same reasons. Obama certainly didn't jive with most southerners or our values. But now it's ok?

seems like that lovely double standard the liberals have is rearing it's ugly head again.

If it is Treason for the South, it's Treason for ya'll.

Remember your arguments quoting Lincoln? Or how about Obama? "elections have consequences" and his speech on Wednesday about working together with our new President Trump.

The difference is that the Southern states left to protect slavery. Liberal states that leave a fascistic America will do so to preserve the "republican form of government" that the Constitution mandates for the states.

In the Constitutional sense, "republican form of government" means not only no monarchy, but also no form of dictatorship. Paradoxically that might be the defense against a coup -- states deciding that they would rather be independent than follow the coup leader.

America stands a high chance of splintering with Donald Trump as President as he divides Americans on ethnicity and religion, much like Milosevic did in Yugoslavia.