Bipartisan Senate group proposes ‘no fly, no buy’ gun measure

[Eric the Green]

(12-15-2018, 06:34 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-15-2018, 03:33 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I think I should give credit where credit is due. The Senate is at times a place where bipartisan compromise occasionally happens. This may now be also true in the new House in 2019, although now the Senate will be tilted further to the right, and Trump will need only 7 instead of the 10 Democrats he says he needs to support his unwise and extreme policies.

On the Newshour it was reported that two compromise bills were passed in the Senate recently. Senators Grassley and Durbin were leaders in this, and Trump is supporting them. Criminal justice reform will increase the likelihood that prison sentences will fit the crime and that rehabilitation will be available. Drug and other non-violent offenders will have increased access to treatment. Another bipartisan farm bill was passed, which gives price supports to farmers and also restores money for food stamps. Extremist anti-environmental elements were taken out of the bill. I believe the White House is supporting this bill as well.

In earlier times, bipartisan immigration reform passed the Senate and was killed in the House. Now Trump is at loggerheads with Democrats on this issue.

Of coarse, the situation is much different now. We have a Republican Senate that isn't going to vote against Trump and slit their own throats like Democrats. We have a Republican in the White House who doesn't care about his image  with the liberal press. Trump has one Democratic leader to contend with in the House who seems to be opposed to adding more AMERICAN border security which Americans know is unpopular with the her supporters  and unpopular with the world but seems to have the  support by most American citizens/voters these days. So, it's up to her whether she wants to start her second reign as Speaker with a government shutdown that she can't defend herself or defend her position against the criticism coming from unhappy Americans on her side who will  be loosing  wages for the sake of illegal immigration.

See Bob Butler, here's an example of how a typical Republican voter (which Classic Xer is; he may even be to the LEFT of most Republican voters!) are ruled by prejudice and fear alone.

Only a scared and fearful people build a wall to keep people out that they are afraid of. These fearful Republican people blame immigrants for the lower wages-- which their own Republicans impose upon them! They think Americans support this wall, when in fact Pelosi has the support of the majority of the American people who oppose the wall. But since Classic Xer thinks that only Trump supporters are "Americans," he can't see what is beyond his prejudice to see. Republicans may be opposed to government spending and taxes--- except when it's for the things THEY want, which are things to keep the people they are afraid of, those non-Americans, out of their country-- things like big, expensive useless armies and huge border walls with the name of their hero written on them-- just as long as they think their ridiculous cult hero authoritarian leader is not being insulted by the blues, and just as long as they can blindly hold him up as having behavior exactly opposite to his actual behavior! Hey, Classic Xer would make a great subject himself for "a closer look" with Seth Meyers!

Very coarse, of course! ha ha!

[Classic-Xer]

(12-15-2018, 07:00 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(12-15-2018, 06:34 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-15-2018, 03:33 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I think I should give credit where credit is due. The Senate is at times a place where bipartisan compromise occasionally happens. This may now be also true in the new House in 2019, although now the Senate will be tilted further to the right, and Trump will need only 7 instead of the 10 Democrats he says he needs to support his unwise and extreme policies.

On the Newshour it was reported that two compromise bills were passed in the Senate recently. Senators Grassley and Durbin were leaders in this, and Trump is supporting them. Criminal justice reform will increase the likelihood that prison sentences will fit the crime and that rehabilitation will be available. Drug and other non-violent offenders will have increased access to treatment. Another bipartisan farm bill was passed, which gives price supports to farmers and also restores money for food stamps. Extremist anti-environmental elements were taken out of the bill. I believe the White House is supporting this bill as well.

In earlier times, bipartisan immigration reform passed the Senate and was killed in the House. Now Trump is at loggerheads with Democrats on this issue.

Of coarse, the situation is much different now. We have a Republican Senate that isn't going to vote against Trump and slit their own throats like Democrats. We have a Republican in the White House who doesn't care about his image  with the liberal press. Trump has one Democratic leader to contend with in the House who seems to be opposed to adding more AMERICAN border security which Americans know is unpopular with the her supporters  and unpopular with the world but seems to have the  support by most American citizens/voters these days. So, it's up to her whether she wants to start her second reign as Speaker with a government shutdown that she can't defend herself or defend her position against the criticism coming from unhappy Americans on her side who will  be loosing  wages for the sake of illegal immigration.

See Bob Butler, here's an example of how a typical Republican voter (which Classic Xer is; he may even be to the LEFT of most Republican voters!) are ruled by prejudice and fear alone.

Only a scared and fearful people build a wall to keep people out that they are afraid of. These fearful Republican people blame immigrants for the lower wages-- which their own Republicans impose upon them! They think Americans support this wall, when in fact Pelosi has the support of the majority of the American people who oppose the wall. But since Classic Xer thinks that only Trump supporters are "Americans," he can't see what is beyond his prejudice to see. Republicans may be opposed to government spending and taxes--- except when it's for the things THEY want, which are things to keep the people they are afraid of, those non-Americans, out of their country-- things like big, expensive useless armies and huge border walls with the name of their hero written on them-- just as long as they think their ridiculous cult hero authoritarian leader is not being insulted by the blues, and just as long as they can blindly hold him up as having behavior exactly opposite to his actual behavior! Hey, Classic Xer would make a great subject himself for "a closer look" with Seth Meyers!

Very coarse, of course! ha ha!

Dude, only a dumb or foolish or overly sympathetic or naive or completely impoverished and worthless nation would insist and allow its borders remain open to whoever wants to enter, any time they please and for whatever reason. As I'm mentioned before, we aren't the native American Indians who had no concept of the world at the time.

[Eric the Green]

(12-15-2018, 10:07 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-15-2018, 07:00 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(12-15-2018, 06:34 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-15-2018, 03:33 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I think I should give credit where credit is due. The Senate is at times a place where bipartisan compromise occasionally happens. This may now be also true in the new House in 2019, although now the Senate will be tilted further to the right, and Trump will need only 7 instead of the 10 Democrats he says he needs to support his unwise and extreme policies.

On the Newshour it was reported that two compromise bills were passed in the Senate recently. Senators Grassley and Durbin were leaders in this, and Trump is supporting them. Criminal justice reform will increase the likelihood that prison sentences will fit the crime and that rehabilitation will be available. Drug and other non-violent offenders will have increased access to treatment. Another bipartisan farm bill was passed, which gives price supports to farmers and also restores money for food stamps. Extremist anti-environmental elements were taken out of the bill. I believe the White House is supporting this bill as well.

In earlier times, bipartisan immigration reform passed the Senate and was killed in the House. Now Trump is at loggerheads with Democrats on this issue.

Of coarse, the situation is much different now. We have a Republican Senate that isn't going to vote against Trump and slit their own throats like Democrats. We have a Republican in the White House who doesn't care about his image  with the liberal press. Trump has one Democratic leader to contend with in the House who seems to be opposed to adding more AMERICAN border security which Americans know is unpopular with the her supporters  and unpopular with the world but seems to have the  support by most American citizens/voters these days. So, it's up to her whether she wants to start her second reign as Speaker with a government shutdown that she can't defend herself or defend her position against the criticism coming from unhappy Americans on her side who will  be loosing  wages for the sake of illegal immigration.

See Bob Butler, here's an example of how a typical Republican voter (which Classic Xer is; he may even be to the LEFT of most Republican voters!) are ruled by prejudice and fear alone.

Only a scared and fearful people build a wall to keep people out that they are afraid of. These fearful Republican people blame immigrants for the lower wages-- which their own Republicans impose upon them! They think Americans support this wall, when in fact Pelosi has the support of the majority of the American people who oppose the wall. But since Classic Xer thinks that only Trump supporters are "Americans," he can't see what is beyond his prejudice to see. Republicans may be opposed to government spending and taxes--- except when it's for the things THEY want, which are things to keep the people they are afraid of, those non-Americans, out of their country-- things like big, expensive useless armies and huge border walls with the name of their hero written on them-- just as long as they think their ridiculous cult hero authoritarian leader is not being insulted by the blues, and just as long as they can blindly hold him up as having behavior exactly opposite to his actual behavior! Hey, Classic Xer would make a great subject himself for "a closer look" with Seth Meyers!

Very coarse, of course! ha ha!

Dude, only a dumb or foolish or overly sympathetic or naive or completely  impoverished and worthless  nation would insist and allow its borders remain open to whoever wants to enter, any time they please and for whatever reason. As I'm mentioned before, we aren't the native American Indians who had no concept of the world at the time.

I don't think I said I want open borders; that's just how you guys portray us as saying.

[Classic-Xer]

(12-15-2018, 03:09 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: But it would be a mistake to believe that all reds are alike, that all reds have all the traits attributed and displayed by any reds.  Of that belief is many a vile stereotype born, but that does not make any of the individual issues go away.  The blues have a similar set of vile stereotypes which is equably simplistic as a whole.  Repeating the stereotype is false, boring and generally rejected by blues as obviously wrong.  If someone hears a stereotype of one's self which is obviously wrong, one can reject everything that that person says as crude and false.  You have to address each issue separately, one at a time, rather than spew the whole stereotype.

Like I said, there are so-called vile stereotypes that are accurate views of blues that aren't pleasant that should be taken seriously and not simply rejected or ignored or dismissed as a vile stereotype that isn't truthful. Now, I'm not the most perfect or the all superior. I don't try to be either one or act like either one or attempt to project an image of myself as being either one. The same goes for being innocent or an angel. The Devils Advocate had a bad habit of doing the same things as the blues. Sorry, I still have you in the same boat with the other blues despite your valiant efforts to separate yourself from them.

[Bob Butler 54]

(12-15-2018, 11:35 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(12-15-2018, 10:07 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Dude, only a dumb or foolish or overly sympathetic or naive or completely  impoverished and worthless  nation would insist and allow its borders remain open to whoever wants to enter, any time they please and for whatever reason. As I'm mentioned before, we aren't the native American Indians who had no concept of the world at the time.

I don't think I said I want open borders; that's just how you guys portray us as saying.

I would agree, you have totally misrepresented the blue position.

Have you read Guns, Germs and Steel?  I think the Native Americans were dealt a bad hand and were well aware of it, making fairly rational if ultimately losing decisions.   Your portrayal of minorities indicates ignorance.

Classic  Xer Wrote:Like I said, there are so-called vile stereotypes that are accurate views of blues that aren't pleasant that should be taken seriously and not simply rejected or ignored or dismissed as a vile stereotype that isn't truthful. Now, I'm not the most perfect or the all superior. I don't try to be either one or act like either one or attempt to project an image of myself as being either one. The same goes for being innocent or an angel. The Devils Advocate had a bad habit of doing the same things as the blues. Sorry, I still have you in the same boat with the other blues despite your valiant efforts to separate yourself from them.

Not quite the same boat, though I have not hidden that I lean blue.

Not that I would consider you an expert in blues.  You constantly misrepresent them, preferring stereotypes to truly answering what is said or proposed.

[David Horn]

(12-15-2018, 10:07 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Dude, only a dumb or foolish or overly sympathetic or naive or completely  impoverished and worthless  nation would insist and allow its borders remain open to whoever wants to enter, any time they please and for whatever reason. As I'm mentioned before, we aren't the native American Indians who had no concept of the world at the time.

What is it with you folks on the right that you can't see any middle ground. Worse, you insist that your opponents see it the same way. Here's a hint: try nuance. I assume you use that concept in the other parts of you life. For example, if you ask a friend to attend a ballgame and he or she says no, that does not imply that your friend is no longer your friend. If so, marriage is totally out of the question.

But back to the topic. No one wants blindly open borders -- no one! By the same token, we shouldn't want hermetically sealed borders either. Everyone benefits by cultural and trade interactions with people from other countries. Everyone gains. That's clearly not the same as open borders, nor does it imply a willingness to roll over and play dead for the benefit of others. If you want to see slavish boot licking and subservience, try the relationship we have with China. Big Business wanted access at all costs, now they're whining that they had to give away all their intellectual property. The solution was simple: demand trade deals that made that illegal and make them enforceable. Oh yeah, we had one called TPP and the Trumpster pissed all over it.

[Bob Butler 54]

(12-16-2018, 08:19 AM)David Horn Wrote: What is it with you folks on the right that you can't see any middle ground.  Worse, you insist that your opponents see it the same way.

Is it all people on the right, or primarily Xer? Are you making the same error in assuming all reds are alike, thus all must share the same faults as Xer, that he is.

[David Horn]

(12-16-2018, 09:32 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-16-2018, 08:19 AM)David Horn Wrote: What is it with you folks on the right that you can't see any middle ground.  Worse, you insist that your opponents see it the same way.

Is it all people on the right,  or primarily Xer?  Are you making the same error in assuming all reds are alike, thus all must share the same faults as Xer, that he is.

Assume a certain amount of hyperbole and you'll have it right.  Classic-Xer uses many of the default arguments of the right, so I treat him as a default himself.  Is that fair?  Perhaps not.

[Classic-Xer]

(12-16-2018, 08:19 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-15-2018, 10:07 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Dude, only a dumb or foolish or overly sympathetic or naive or completely  impoverished and worthless  nation would insist and allow its borders remain open to whoever wants to enter, any time they please and for whatever reason. As I'm mentioned before, we aren't the native American Indians who had no concept of the world at the time.

What is it with you folks on the right that you can't see any middle ground.  Worse, you insist that your opponents see it the same way.  Here's a hint: try nuance.  I assume you use that concept in the other parts of you life.  For example, if you ask a friend to attend a ballgame and he or she says no, that does not imply that your friend is no longer your friend.  If so, marriage is totally out of the question.

But back to the topic.  No one wants blindly open borders -- no one!  By the same token, we shouldn't want hermetically sealed borders either.  Everyone benefits by cultural and trade interactions with people from other countries.  Everyone gains.  That's clearly not the same as open borders, nor does it imply a willingness to roll over and play dead for the benefit of others.  If you want to see slavish boot licking and subservience, try the relationship we have with China.  Big Business wanted access at all costs, now they're whining that they had to give away all their intellectual property.  The solution was simple: demand trade deals that made that illegal and make them enforceable.  Oh yeah, we had one called TPP and the Trumpster pissed all over it.

Who is asking for hermetically sealed borders and complete isolation from the world? I'm not asking for that and I'm not expecting to see that either. I expect our borders will remain open for legal commerce and remain open for legal immigrants and visitors/travelers. Where's the common ground on the border wall issue which is pretty much a black (Yes) or white (No) issue/solution by itself?

Now, if Queen Nancy decides she wants to try and make an issue of it and see the government shut down over it, that's fine by me. I don't really want to see her elected as the Speaker of the House again. I don't really want to see her group of partisan blue crony's being placed back into primary positions of power again either. I'd like to see her and her partisan crony's politically eliminated or severely weakened and see their leadership ability brought into question right now. I'm sure Trump feels the same way. So, I'd hand the issue to her as the acting Speaker like he did with her and her irrelevant political side kick Chuck the other day during their meeting and I'd be willing to leave it at that for now with the clock ticking down to zero as well. BTW, the clock getting to zero ain't going to matter to me, the Republicans who will be staying or the ones leaving or his supporters or anyone smart enough to understand that border security is a necessity these days. . I'd hold firm and see what happens to their popularity and their ability to remain together as an American party for a few weeks or as many weeks as it takes for a group of blues and their leader to get the message from Democratic voters who didn't vote for them and American business supporters and so on. I say FUCK her, stand firm on your convictions and allow the government to shut down or accept her surrender and spare government employee's from going weeks without paychecks as Nancy and her political pals weigh out their options and feel the heat of Democratic unhappiness and anger over an issue that most Americans view as a no brainer after seeing and hearing about a few large caravans.

Here's the deal, what blues view as a none issues and tend to ignore and not cover or pay attention to at all seem to be issues that Americans are most concerned about these days. Why? I don't know for sure what their problem is but I'm sure whatever it is ain't good and isn't going to turn out very well for them either. The blues have a major value issue and a major issue with their value system and a major issue with their worldview.

[Bob Butler 54]

(12-16-2018, 05:01 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Who is asking for hermetically sealed borders and complete isolation from the world?

You just did.  I admit it was clear hyperbole, but it was also a clear vile stereotype, a bad misrepresentation of blue thought.  If you persist in dealing with garbage, you will be stuck dealing with a garbage out garbage in response from the blues.  If you are wondering why reds are treated as garbage, try looking in a mirror.

[Classic-Xer]

(12-16-2018, 05:22 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-16-2018, 05:01 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Who is asking for hermetically sealed borders and complete isolation from the world?

You just did.  I admit it was clear hyperbole, but it was also a clear vile stereotype, a bad misrepresentation of blue thought.  If you persist in dealing with garbage, you will be stuck dealing with a garbage out garbage in response from the blues.  If you are wondering why reds are treated as garbage, try looking in a mirror.

I just did????? Where??? Hey FUCKHEAD, I look in the mirror every day and I don't see a man who is southern white trash. Be careful Bob, you are opening yourself up to receive vile terms that are warranted/earned like that one. You're placing your personal integrity and your precious image at stake. Yes, I mostly dealt with blue garage. Yes, you have to get the decent Democratic folks out of the way before you can effectively deal with blue garbage, Sound familiar? Seem familiar? Look familiar? It should, you've seen it as it was going on in real life before you're own eyes while you were posting and delivering victory proclamations in the old 4T.

[pbrower2a]

(12-16-2018, 08:26 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-16-2018, 05:22 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-16-2018, 05:01 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Who is asking for hermetically sealed borders and complete isolation from the world?

You just did.  I admit it was clear hyperbole, but it was also a clear vile stereotype, a bad misrepresentation of blue thought.  If you persist in dealing with garbage, you will be stuck dealing with a garbage out garbage in response from the blues.  If you are wondering why reds are treated as garbage, try looking in a mirror.

I just did????? Where???  Hey (indecent insult redacted), I look in the mirror every day and I don't see a man who is southern white trash.

You would not be able to tell that I am not Southern 'white trash' -- a vile stereotype that we all need to dump -- just by looking at me.

Quote:Be careful Bob, you are opening yourself up to receive vile terms that are warranted/earned like that one. You're placing your personal integrity and your precious image at stake.

Bob seems an open-minded fellow with much decency.

Quote:Yes, I mostly dealt with blue garage.

Garbage/ trash/ dreck? When one uses such words to describe people one debases oneself even more than one debases the people.

Quote:Yes, you have to get the decent Democratic folks out of the way before you can effectively deal with blue garbage, Sound familiar? Seem familiar? Look familiar? It should, you've seen it as it was going on in real life before you're own eyes  while you were posting and delivering victory proclamations in the old 4T.

Many elections suggested that Democrats have the current function  and the derivative working in their favor.

[David Horn]

(12-16-2018, 08:26 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-16-2018, 05:22 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-16-2018, 05:01 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Who is asking for hermetically sealed borders and complete isolation from the world?

You just did.  I admit it was clear hyperbole, but it was also a clear vile stereotype, a bad misrepresentation of blue thought.  If you persist in dealing with garbage, you will be stuck dealing with a garbage out garbage in response from the blues.  If you are wondering why reds are treated as garbage, try looking in a mirror.

I just did????? Where???  Hey FUCKHEAD, I look in the mirror every day and I don't see a man who is southern white trash. Be careful Bob, you are opening yourself up to receive vile terms that are warranted/earned like that one. You're placing your personal integrity and your precious image at stake. Yes, I mostly dealt with blue garage. Yes, you have to get the decent Democratic folks out of the way before you can effectively deal with blue garbage, Sound familiar? Seem familiar? Look familiar? It should, you've seen it as it was going on in real life before you're own eyes  while you were posting and delivering victory proclamations in the old 4T.

You might benefit by reading the stuff you write, and trying to see it as others see it.  It's a rarity when you don't argue against a strawman that exists nowhere in the real world, then excoriate Blues for believing the stuff you wrote yourself.  I just returned the favor, but at least I knew I was doing it at the time.

[pbrower2a]

(12-17-2018, 10:22 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-16-2018, 08:26 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-16-2018, 05:22 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-16-2018, 05:01 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Who is asking for hermetically sealed borders and complete isolation from the world?

You just did.  I admit it was clear hyperbole, but it was also a clear vile stereotype, a bad misrepresentation of blue thought.  If you persist in dealing with garbage, you will be stuck dealing with a garbage out garbage in response from the blues.  If you are wondering why reds are treated as garbage, try looking in a mirror.

I just did????? Where???  Hey (vile language redacted), I look in the mirror every day and I don't see a man who is southern white trash. Be careful Bob, you are opening yourself up to receive vile terms that are warranted/earned like that one. You're placing your personal integrity and your precious image at stake. Yes, I mostly dealt with blue garage. Yes, you have to get the decent Democratic folks out of the way before you can effectively deal with blue garbage, Sound familiar? Seem familiar? Look familiar? It should, you've seen it as it was going on in real life before you're own eyes  while you were posting and delivering victory proclamations in the old 4T.

You might benefit by reading the stuff you write, and trying to see it as others see it.  It's a rarity when you don't argue against a strawman that exists nowhere in the real world, then excoriate Blues for believing the stuff you wrote yourself.  I just returned the favor, but at least I knew I was doing it at the time.

Classic X'er could stand to read Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People.

[Classic-Xer]

(12-17-2018, 10:22 AM)David Horn Wrote: You might benefit by reading the stuff you write, and trying to see it as others see it.  It's a rarity when you don't argue against a strawman that exists nowhere in the real world, then excoriate Blues for believing the stuff you wrote yourself.  I just returned the favor, but at least I knew I was doing it at the time.

The same could be said to you or said of you. You should pay attention to what you write and be aware of the environment/culture that you currently reside in and claim as being your home. Is Bob a straw man as you claim or a FUCKHEAD as I claim? Bob lied to my face. A typical straw man isn't capable of lying directly to my face. It takes a FUCKHEAD to lie to someones face, place his own words in their mouth and accuse him of being bad or a bad person. I don't care if Bob knows JUDO as he claims. I'm not here recruiting blues, appealing to blues, seeking blue support, doing what I can to control Democratic people/voters with fear and baseless or senseless lies. I've never been one to cozy up with blues or use subtle approaches with blues as a means to win them over, fit in with them, gain their support or seek their protection. Do you see any typical Democratic posters around here defending you or getting in my way these days?

The way I see it, we have a lose knit group of hardcore blues who do the bulk of the posting here and one hard core American who does the bulk of the responding and the bulk of the fighting/dirty work with the remaining group hardcore blues these days. You're old forum (the one you and a group of hardcore blues took over and controlled for years) no longer exists. I already completed my primary goal as far as that goes. I mean, an anti American site, what kind of American would want to own that and have his name associated with an anti American or anti American white site. Now, it's just a matter of eliminating a few old remnants that have nothing of value or nothing positive to offer the American citizens who are on the American right. I've made strong claims and strong arguments that hardcore blues ain't all that American minded these days. Strong claims that weren't pulled out the the air or made up in my own mind without any thought or gathering of proof or observations to back them up.

Now, as far as I know, you're a cozy blue poster who lives some place pretty nice and pretty safe that's located out in the middle of red country who is surrounded by dumb country hicks/rednecks/white trash, crazy red church goers and Bible thumpers and irresponsible gun owners that you seem to detest and talk bad about here. Why are you living there? Is it the morning view, the clean air, the quiet peaceful tranquility living remote or something else that you value more than really caring about what your red neighbors are like, believe and so forth. It's true that I've made no efforts to impress blues or friendly attempts to form relationships/friendship with blues and spent the bulk of my time doing the opposite and gaining support or convincing others to separate themselves from for obvious reasons or convincing them to step aside as I do the dirty work that they can't do because of political ties or fears or their commitment to extend personal kindness/ be nice to all.

[Classic-Xer]

(12-17-2018, 12:23 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Classic X'er could stand to read Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People.

How many friends do you have and how many people do you have influence with these days? Do you normally read a book and chalk it up as another book that you read and use as an example of a book that Classic should read or could stand to read ? I've never had an issue with making friends or an issue with influencing either. I'm actually pretty good at doing both of them.

[pbrower2a]

(12-17-2018, 02:03 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-17-2018, 12:23 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Classic X'er could stand to read Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People.

How many friends do you have and how many people do you have influence with these days? Do you normally read a book and chalk it up as another book that you read and use as an example of a book that Classic should read or could stand to read ? I've never had an issue with making friends or an issue with influencing either. I'm actually pretty good at doing both of them.

I have Asperger's. I have poor facial recognition, so I have difficulty making friends. It is complicated, and you wouldn't understand it unless you had Asperger's or were trained in mental health.

Dale Carnegie's book has as a corollary that one can do things to avoid making enemies or looking like a horrible person.

[Classic-Xer]

(12-17-2018, 03:35 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: I have Asperger's. I have poor facial recognition, so I have difficulty making friends. It is complicated, and you wouldn't understand it unless you had Asperger's or were trained in mental health.

Dale Carnegie's book has as a corollary that one can do things to avoid making enemies or looking like a horrible person.

Well, you're also a political hack according to your own words and view of yourself. I'll give you credit, you are more upfront and honest about yourself than the blues you're affiliated with here.

[Bob Butler 54]

(12-17-2018, 01:20 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Is Bob a straw man as you claim or a FUCKHEAD as I claim? Bob lied to my face. A typical straw man isn't capable of lying directly to my face. It takes a FUCKHEAD to lie to someones face, place his own  words in their mouth  and accuse him of being bad or a bad person. I don't care if Bob knows JUDO as he claims.

Well, to start, I did not claim to know judo.  I did study karate in college, and kung fu as an adult, but no judo.  Nor did I use or threaten to use martial arts ability to change a political view.  That just isn't done, neither school would approve, nor is that typical blue behavior.  Not to mention I am a handicapped old guy, way out of shape, in no way ready or inclined to take confrontations to a physical level.  This is not really important.  In other ways it represents how you misrepresent what other people stand for, and attack the false position using insult and obscenity.

It is typical of your behavior to lie to someone else face, to badly represent their views in doing so, to use obscenity and insult.  Does this make you a bad person?  Maybe.  Define bad person.

Is this an anti American site?  No.  It should be a place where theories of history and politics are thrown around, and neutral to any red-blue bias.  There ideally should be equal numbers of people who lean either way.  It falls short of that ideal.  In part, those that rationally argued the red position and respected the supposed neutrality have mostly left.  All who are left on the red side are mostly fanatics, cannot be reasoned with.  The others have left, mostly as they were unable to use reason to defend red positions.  There are a good number of extremists of both stripes here who do not seem ready to tolerate people who disagree with their thought.  Most of them cannot be reasoned with, budged off their extremism.

I do object to calling your view American, and other views not.  Prejudice, for example, is a traditional part of American culture.  So is the drive for equality, to treat all men as equal.  In a similar way, most of the issues that divide America today have echoes on both sides in the American past.  Global warming is an exception, if only because it is fairly new.  Environmentalism only became an issue in the middle to late 20th century.  But this is an echo of rural thought.  It is harder to see high population density problems when you live in a low population density area.  It is easy to value independent action and small government when living in an area where the government is mostly far away.  This does not make pulling together and attacking large problems un American.  We did it to excess in the tax and spend era.  The tendency to attack large critical problems through government action was once typical, once made America great.

So I hear your calling reds American as lying.

I did call Trump as causing a flip flop.  His behavior caused the blues to win half of congress.  It will be much harder to impose the red world view on America.  I still see an eventual blue triumph.  The longer one leaves critical problems unseen and unsolved, the more it becomes inevitable that the majority of people will wish to solve the problems, will have to solve them.  The reds won a minority victory taking advantage of the old slavery compromises.  I anticipate America will be strong enough to survive.  I anticipate an eventual backlash.  The unravelling is a time of conservative stalemate, the crisis of radical change.  The question is how eventual.

A question which will not be answered by misrepresenting the opposition, lying, and using obscenity.

[Classic-Xer]

(12-17-2018, 06:28 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Well, to start, I did not claim to know judo.  I did study karate in college, and kung fu as an adult, but no judo.  Nor did I use or threaten to use martial arts ability to change a political view.  That just isn't done, neither school would approve, nor is that typical blue behavior.  Not to mention I am a handicapped old guy, way out of shape, in no way ready or inclined to take confrontations to a physical level.  This is not really important.  In other ways it represents how you misrepresent what other people stand for, and attack the false position using insult and obscenity.

It is typical of your behavior to lie to someone else face, to badly represent their views in doing so, to use obscenity and insult.  Does this make you a bad person?  Maybe.  Define bad person.

Is this an anti American site?  No.  It should be a place where theories of history and politics are thrown around, and neutral to any red-blue bias.  There ideally should be equal numbers of people who lean either way.  It falls short of that ideal.  In part, those that rationally argued the red position and respected the supposed neutrality have mostly left.  All who are left on the red side are mostly fanatics, cannot be reasoned with.  The others have left, mostly as they were unable to use reason to defend red positions.  There are a good number of extremists of both stripes here who do not seem ready to tolerate people who disagree with their thought.  Most of them cannot be reasoned with, budged off their extremism.

I do object to calling your view American, and other views not.  Prejudice, for example, is a traditional part of American culture.  So is the drive for equality, to treat all men as equal.  In a similar way, most of the issues that divide America today have echoes on both sides in the American past.  Global warming is an exception, if only because it is fairly new.  Environmentalism only became an issue in the middle to late 20th century.  But this is an echo of rural thought.  It is harder to see high population density problems when you live in a low population density area.  It is easy to value independent action and small government when living in an area where the government is mostly far away.  This does not make pulling together and attacking large problems un American.  We did it to excess in the tax and spend era.  The tendency to attack large critical problems through government action was once typical, once made America great.

So I hear your calling reds American as lying.

I did call Trump as causing a flip flop.  His behavior caused the blues to win half of congress.  It will be much harder to impose the red world view on America.  I still see an eventual blue triumph.  The longer one leaves critical problems unseen and unsolved, the more it becomes inevitable that the majority of people will wish to solve the problems, will have to solve them.  The reds won a minority victory taking advantage of the old slavery compromises.  I anticipate America will be strong enough to survive.  I anticipate an eventual backlash.  The unravelling is a time of conservative stalemate, the crisis of radical change.  The question is how eventual.

A question which will not be answered by misrepresenting the opposition, lying, and using obscenity.

Bob, I'm not talking about you behind your back or spreading rumors about you behind you back or whining to moderators either. I called you a FUCKHEAD to your face and I told you the reason why I did it as well. I see that you didn't see or accept your own mistake and own up to it like a person with higher character would do. Well, I associate your lack of proper response with typical blue behavior. Judo is just another form of martial arts to me. I just used it as a way to remind you that you're not speaking to a stranger who doesn't know anything about you or anything about what you have written or about the positions that you have taken and the information that you've shared about yourself in the past. 

What do you stand for? Do you stand for equality or do you just claim that you do? I don't know the answer but I'm sure I can come up with some more clever ways to test you further and find out. Or, are you willing to drop the term and never use it to your advantage again. Did you treat me as an equal or treat me as a lesser being? Well, if you were smart, you wouldn't treat me as a lesser being or snub me in any way because I'm able to hurt you and tarnish your image in many ways without using violence.